Gotta love the fanatics. I will take a wild guess and go with: He doesn't realize that Israel was formed due to certain circumstances that occurred in Europe.

Where do you get your information? You'd be better off linking...

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2005-12-08T171212Z_01_RID850121_RTRUKOC_0_US-MIDEAST-IRAN-AHMADINEJAD.xml&rpc=22

'Some European countries insist on saying that Hitler killed millions of innocent Jews in furnaces and they insist on it to the extent that if anyone proves something contrary to that they condemn that person and throw them in jail'...

And yes, he does realize what 'supposedly' occured in Europe to drive the Jews away.

I wonder what the ME would use for slaying one another if, for example, they had placed Israel in South America.

Fandros

Where do you get your information? You'd be better off linking...

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2005-12-08T171212Z_01_RID850121_RTRUKOC_0_US-MIDEAST-IRAN-AHMADINEJAD.xml&rpc=22

'Some European countries insist on saying that Hitler killed millions of innocent Jews in furnaces and they insist on it to the extent that if anyone proves something contrary to that they condemn that person and throw them in jail'...

And yes, he does realize what 'supposedly' occured in Europe to drive the Jews away.

Well I kind of looked at it from this point of view. I took a wild guess based on this: Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Thursday expressed doubt that the Holocaust occurred

And made an assumption that he doesn't realize what happened there.

Israel was not "arbitrarily" placed in it's current location as Iran's leader likes to assert. One only need browse a few chapters of the Torah or bible to know why it was placed there. I personally think everyone would be better off if all the Israelis moved to the US and we leveled Israel on the way out. I am over all the historical walls and bricks and roads. Its just material. It has no holy value in my mind. Its the people, traditions, customs, and Torah that make Israel, not location on the earth and proximity to walls and roads that are named in legends. Nowhere does it say the Temple cannot be rebuilt in the US.

Very true Phel, I wish more in that area would realize what you just stated. I'm sure God/Allah cares less about where Jesus or such and such prophet were born and more about what the people do no matter where they are.

Fandros

I say we give them Utah. ;)

;P Thor.

Don't think I didn't catch that one. heh

Fandros

Naw, give them a five mile wide strip of land all along our southern border. It's dry like they are used to and they have a lot of experience in border control.

Hmmmm not a shabby idea Gulor. Have a country in mind we can give the Canadian boarder? ;p


Fandros

Hmm, someone safe and innocous. Maybe all the pacific islanders and inuits who will be suing us for global warming.

Due to the constant warring over the centuries which resulted in refugee migrations, and also the slave trade, Jews became scattered throughout the globe. The movement back to what is now Israel became more pronounced with the rise of fascism in the 30's, and following the allied victory over Germany it gained even more momentum.

The land occupied by the British, and claimed by both the Palestinians and Israelis, has been fought over as far back as recorded history can be found.
In 1947, the United Nations voted on the Palestine Mandate and declared the land to be the sovereign nation of Israel (this following the withdrawal of the British rule), and it has been contested ever since by the surrounding Islamic countries.

The drive to create a homeland was based in the need for a place to claim as one's own country, as well as in the religious teachings that God had given them this land.

Moving them all to the US and than getting serious with the folks in the ME would be a repeat of earlier history, whereby they once again lose their homeland. While it would allow us to deal more effectively with the Islamic nations, it would only create more problems for the Jewish people.

I say we negotiate with Russia and China on how to divvy up the resources of Iran, Iraq, Afghan, Pakistan, Syria, etc, and then just go ahead and straighten out those fanatics without the handcuffs we currently must work with.

Then fifty years from now, we can have a President stand up and say "I do not believe there was ever any mass killings of Moslem fanatics in the Middle East".

History proves that the jews will have conflicts no matter where they re-locate. Utah is no exception! If we gave them the moon to go live on, some people would still be looking to exterminate them. They seem like magnets to trouble to me.

Ha Bylimet I like that idea. I often have the same feeling though that Israel should be moved to the US and be done with it. So much fighting over a few ruins and hell we could even move the damn wailing wall!

It is important to make a distinction between Zionism, immigration driven by economic factors and immigration driven by anti-semitism.

A Zionist goes to Israel because of his belief system (ie the holy land was given to the care of the people of the covenant by the All Mighty and it is their duty to claim it).

Although the original Zionism before WWII was based mostly on communist ideas (see the Kibbutzim) and the religious leaders weren't all too happy about it because according to their interpretation Jews weren't to reclaim the holy land till the coming of the Messiah (and I'm not talking about Jesus here but the Jewish version, the descendant of King David who was foretold to bring world peace).
Of course that all changed after holocaust and it isn't really relevant now to make the distinction between religious jew and zionist jew anymore.

Immigration driven by economic factors...well, a significant portion of the jews (or claiming to be jews) who immigrated to Israel from the ex-communist countries did it because of the better living conditions and not because they were particularly religious or zionist.

While today's Israel is more secular than religious it would be rather unrealistic to expect a whole state to pack and move to somewhere else and it won't ever happen unless the area is glowing green from the radioactive fallout (which could very well happen if Iran could get away with it).

We aren't talking about a Gypsy camp here, most of these people are 2nd/3rd generation children of the immigrants and the country itself could be very well Western European or North American if it wasn't for the constant terrorism and being at the wrong spot on the map.

I say we negotiate with Russia and China on how to divvy up the resources of Iran, Iraq, Afghan, Pakistan, Syria, etc, and then just go ahead and straighten out those fanatics without the handcuffs we currently must work with.

Then fifty years from now, we can have a President stand up and say "I do not believe there was ever any mass killings of Moslem fanatics in the Middle East".


Eh, while I wouldn't be opposed to the idea at all it would need a serious shift in the rhetoric on the US side.

I bet Russia and China would go along too but Europe would be rather peeved I'm sure.

Eh, while I wouldn't be opposed to the idea at all it would need a serious shift in the rhetoric on the US side.

I bet Russia and China would go along too but Europe would be rather peeved I'm sure.

Agreed, and I really should have made it a four way negotiation with the inlcusion of the EU-whatever they call it.

Agreed, and I really should have made it a four way negotiation with the inlcusion of the EU-whatever they call it.

It might even happen if/when the oil start to run out (30-50 years from now on?) but I guess most of us gonna be too busy chopping wood for heating and hunting wild dogs for food by then to stop and cheer on the news of the conquest of the middle east.

(feel free to insert any other Mad Max vision of yours here, like hunting for women or breeding rabbits for food)

Not sure if I remember right, but I do believe the British Empire almost gave the Jews Kenya.

Bloody Balfour, eh.
How things have changed. Once upon-a-time it was the Jews using terrorist tactics to drive out the Enemy.

In saying that, I'd be the first to agree that Israel needs to be pulled further in to the med, away from the crazy fanatics. Lump them up in the North Sea with us folks, much more peaceable over 'ere.

The Jewish people have been the most persecuted people on the face of the earth for some time now.

They dont want Utah, or Cuba, or Zim-fucking-babwe. They want the land that Moses and a few other Jews wandered around the desert for 40 years looking for. (seriously.. 40 years? Never ask a Jew for directions). The land that David built his Empire and his temple on. The place where their entire history is wrapped up in.
The land that the progenitor of their religion Abraham entered into a covenent with God on behalf of Jews for all time. (Always ask a Jew to negotiate for you)

The Romans broke them for being too quarrellsome. They brought down the temple and scattered the the Jewish people to ends of the Empire for a very specific and real reason.


http://www.timkennedy.net/albums/LainisPics/agw.sized.jpg

Yeah... it seemed Emperor Vespasian needed a new arena for the Romans to watch mayhem in. So he sent over a few legions to Jerusalem, looted the fuck out of the place, and then had all the Jews he could find brought back to Rome to build the Coliseum as slave labor.
After finishing, the Jewish people were scattered across the length of the Empire and their old homeland repopulated with whoever wanted cheap real estate.
From their they lived happily ever after... oh wait.. scratch that.





From Pomgroms in the Dark Ages after being blamed for the Black Plague.
To the special lovins' of the Inquisition
to the Russian purges and the fabrication of the Protocols of the Elder Zion by the Czars secret police
To finally the cherry on top and Hitlers "Final Solution'
Yeah, lets hate on the Jews for not wanting the rest of the world to shit on their heads any more. I guess it gets old after a thousand years or so.

At least things are better now..

http://www.campchaos.com/show.php?iID=866

oh wait, maybe not. Scratch that..

HA...Camp Chaos...that is my friends company...they do some great flash work.

If folks have been raining down death and destruction on the Jewish for so long, I think we'll need more than 50 years to erradicate the Islamists.

Better rehash that plan, Byl.

That whole "divvy up the ME" thing sounds a lot like something I read once about a big bear from the north...or some shit.

ME will screw itself over in time.

Once the oil runs out they won't have nearly the economic power they have now, and won't be able to afford weapons .