To day while in a group in BOT a few IVM members decided they were going to kill all the named mobs. i understand that it a FFA. But have we come to a point that respect for ppl camping a spot means nothing and just because you may be uber does it mean that the little ppl that may never be uber or in a uber guild mean nothing and we should just stop playing because we will never have a chance at the little stuff because uber ppl can step all over us and take it. i just can't believe that this game has come to that. well there is my 2 cp. i guess i just don't understand it because i'm not uber.

Falon

Were you on your way to engage the mob?

we were clearing our way there when they ran past us not once but twice. when both named mobs spawned. i understand that's it a FFA. but there should be some respect for ppl camping the spot for the said named.

Did they just jump in front of you and take a named you were trying to take >? .
Sadly now that Brioma is gone there is no law and there are some guilds that are going to step on who they can again because the person who made them stop that kinda behaivor is gone.
Some guilds are filled with well how to put this nicley $#$%@!% who think they can do what they want and will until they are restrained as they were when Brioma was here because she wouldn't tolerate that shit and would and has taken loot from those people and awarded it to who it should have gone to .
Is it wrong yes will anything be done about it , well hopfully the new GM will step upto the plate and set the law down in stone as Brioma did and force the play nice rules down which no jumping ahead of another group/ guild is not allowed , neither is stealing a triggered spawns .
Your best bet is to petition and keep your fingers crossed and hope the new GM has some Brioma like qualities and will not tolerate that kinda shit and the lapse in the play nice rules is short lived .
Since I do not know exactly what happened here I cannot say what they did was right or wrong . If they took a named you were camping then thats definatly wrong . If they just killed the named and there was no one else going for them more power to them .

mean nothing and we should just stop playing because we will never have a chance at the little stuff because uber ppl can step all over us and take it.

Your first taste of the real world eh? Sucks don't it?

were when Brioma was here because she wouldn't tolerate that shit and would and has taken loot from those people and awarded it to who it should have gone to .


lol are you retarded?

Hey Shatrius GO FUCK YOURSELF ASS CLOWN

You must be one of the dickheads that did this to this person fucking dickless little cocksucker.

yes Brioma has taken loot away from cocksuckers like you that have jumped ahead of people before and awarded it to who it should have gone to .

in closing let me say again GO FUCK YOURSELF ASS CLOWN .

What is your obsession with ass and cock?

Were you fondled as a child?

It is unfortunate...

But if you were not engaged on the mob, they did nothing wrong.

I won't say that it is very civil behavior, but it isn't against the rules, either.

I didn't know Brioma was gone. Does anyone know what caused her to leave Ayonae Ro?

Just curious, don't mean to steal your thread.

Nevermind, just saw this:

pub142.ezboard.com/fayona...3705.topic (http://pub142.ezboard.com/fayonaerofrm6.showMessage?topicID=3705.topic)

I was in this group and after they took the first named I was talking to a member of the group about it they came running back in after our named bug spawned. Yes we were working our way toward the first named when they came running past us and took it.

In my conversation with one of the members of this group he said to me that we were exping and they didn't think were were going after the named. Well first of all how could they have known what we were doing seeing as how they never even asked us if we were going to go kill the first named? They just ran right on by us to kill it.

And now after saying something to them about taking the first one we were working our way to the bug and they come running back in to take that from us too. When asked why they were doing this one of them said they were farming Ornate to sell. Well thats fine and dandy and more power to you but to jump over another group out of greed is just totally unacceptable when every single member of this group is in a elemental guild and have better armor than most of us will ever have IMO.

I have been playing this game since release and have not seen this kind of rude behavior since the days of High Hold and Najena when JBoots dropped there. I mean come on we are all high lvl players and want to make our toons better but to totally disrespect someones camp at this point in the game is just totally lame.

I once had a lot of respect for IvM but if this is what they have turned into (a bunch of disrespectful farmers) then I want to have nothing to do with them. I know for a fact that there are a lot of nice people in IvM and consider many of them to be friends, but every member of a guild is a reflection of that guild. And you know the old saying one bad apple can spoil the bunch well it's true in this case.

IMO it's totally sad to act in such a way over pixels on a screen, but lets face it we are all human on the other end of that screen, and all have feelings, and to just have a total lack of respect for another human being like that just goes to show what kind of person you really are.

Sorry for the long post but this is how I feel about it and am still just in total awe of it.

You must be one of the dickheads that did this to this person fucking dickless little cocksucker.

Yeah you got me there! :rolleyes :

yes Brioma has taken loot away from cocksuckers like you that have jumped ahead of people before and awarded it to who it should have gone to .

You're a dumbfuck. I have never heard of any fucked up GM, retarded or not, giving loot to someone because they were too fucking retarded to get to the mob before someone else. Clearly you're some level 62 piece of shit who spends his life in BoT if you think you can "call" a mobs loot before you are even there, much less killed the fucking thing yet. Why don't you go call dibs on Velketor the Sorcerer you dumbfuck.

You're a dumbfuck. I have never heard of any fucked up GM, retarded or not, giving loot to someone because they were too fucking retarded to get to the mob before someone else.

pub142.ezboard.com/fayona...3559.topic (http://pub142.ezboard.com/fayonaerofrm6.showMessage?topicID=3559.topic)

No no, dont thank me!

Master Damoiel Mindbend
Retired Enchanter of the 60th Season

Had a similar thing happen to us the other day, by an IvM member and his 2-boxed twinks. He didn't take a named, he just sat himself down in the middle of our camp and started pulling. Sending tells to him only resulted in nasty gfy replies. Sent a tell to an IvM officer who told me that this member would 'do the right thing' and then promptly logged while said IvM member never budged.

What're you gonna do? Chalk it up to "that's IvM", I guess, and cross your fingers that what goes around, comes around.

<blockquote style="padding-left:0.5em; margin-left:0; margin-right:0; margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0; border-left:solid 2">What're you gonna do? Chalk it up to "that's IvM", I guess, and cross your fingers that what goes around, comes around.</blockquote>

I guess so, what has IvM become if this is the way their members behave and reflect them selves? IMO when you accept a guild invite and carry that tag over your head you are no longer just representing your self but every other member of your guild...

Yes Dart I was fondled as a child by your mother and she wasn't very good. Its amazing you were born she was such a lousey lay that your dad ever fucked her so guess that makes me your father since she fondled me and your dad wouldn't touch her .

As for you clown boy no I am well way above your dickhead ass and I never waste my time in BOT because losers like you live there.

Not going to further agrue with the braindead here who think that jumping ahead of someone is ok to do even though its just wrong .
Maybe someone needs to learn right from wrong I blame your parents they should have beaten this into you as a child .

And no dart I may be your father but I didn't raise you so take no responsibility in whether you know right from wrong .

Obsess much?

Don't be such a cumslut.

Yes Dart I was fondled as a child

Ok, now that we have that one out of the way, let's move on shall we?

I am well way above your dickhead ass

Your retort back proved you aren't anywhere above me, if not lower for sinking to my level of insults.

Not going to further agrue with the braindead here

You should have just shut the fuck up here, but you kept babbling on.

Maybe someone needs to learn right from wrong I blame your parents they should have beaten this into you as a child

So now that we got the molestation out of the way, is this a solemn plea for help? They should have beaten me so I could end up like you I take it?

.

Putting a space before your periods....That is a trademark from someone else who (now banned)posts here. You remind me of him in a way.

And no dart I may be your father but I didn't raise you

Hmm, double negatives make me think, So you did raise me?

take no responsibility in whether you know right from wrong .

I know you are a whining little bitch, and that can be just enough to get by sometimes.

pub142.ezboard.com/fayona...3559.topic

No no, dont thank me!

Eh, you got me there. But still, that's one dumbass example of a GM versus many other times they make people roll or just laugh and tell them to stfu.

Yes Dart you are soooo cool I just wish I was half as cool as you but then I to would be a dipshit just like you .
You are right I am stooping and will post no further and be a board troll like you .
Sorry if I think jumping ahead of someone is just wrong and you are just to cool to think that .
Done posting on this thread the best part of you went down your mothers leg . Sorry but sadly even with all his grammar problems Amp was right about one thing most of the clowns on this board are exactly that attention whore clowns like you Dart .

As for you clown boy no I am well way above your dickhead ass and I never waste my time in BOT because losers like you live there.


Oh wow, I didn't know. Let me guess, you have elemental access right? Lol.

Fuck off jackass.

PS What is a dickhead ass? Would that be the back end of the head, or rather, the part where the head and the shaft meet?

How many times must I tell you I am an assHAT not a clown .

Look I put a space before my period teehee


one thing most of the clowns on this board are exactly that attention whore clowns like you Dart

Attention whore clowns that hate whiney bitches like you .

omg i did it again.

its like zugzug is amp/comcast who retook 2nd grade

Is it whining if what the person/persons did was wrong? Maybe... Was it wrong of them to obviously jump them the second time after they had been told that they where working towards the named? Yes... Can anything be done about it as it happens ALL of the time? Sure if the GM wants to... Would it be retarded of the GM to do something about it? LOL no...

Bottom line. It happens all the time and if you choose to do so well that’s your prerogative. People think that since this is only a video game and that therefore you are hidden that you can get away with murder. I would be willing to bet, that these same people in real life are probably just as big of assholes as they reveal themselves in game. And, that in real life since, they are not shielded by anonymity that they enjoy here, don’t attempt half they stupid shit that they do in game cause if they did they would more then likely get the stomping that they deserve.

I was in Paludal today PLing my twink and some bitch 54 mage started KSing me. Wtf. What's with newbs these days thinking they can walk all over us ubers?

My suggestion: play in LDoN where the chiggers of the world cannot bleed the fun out of the game.

Holy shit. Caean, you playing again?

People have been doing this for god knows how long, and this isn't isolated to our server. Unfortunately, this is a type of person. And they are still "children" testing their bounds until they reach that breaking point. Infact a good chunk of those that do this are just spoiled brats who don't care and will /tell pissed_off_legit_person_20003129938747 'gfy'

To you Falon my friend, I say this, "Fuck them over. Make them understand you are not someone to be fucked with, after all, it's only a game <insert cutesy evil smiley face here>"


Orun

What I gather is this, you are clearing in BoT to a mob. IvM runs through invis, considering the only thing that really sees invis in BoT are named and ex-charm pets who had careless owners. While as other people said, it may not be the most civil thing to do, there is also no play nice policy rule being broken either. According to Sony/GMs there are no camps. The first to engage with necessary force has rights to the mob, etc etc

To you Falon my friend, I say this, "Fuck them over. Make them understand you are not someone to be fucked with, after all, it's only a game <insert cutesy evil smiley face here>"

Yes, I agree totally. Since they move past you to go to a mob, you should definitely train them or swear at them in /ooc or show them you are not "someone to be fucked with" in another fashion.

Don't you think that'd be a bit "childish", Orun, master of maturity?

--But have we come to a point that respect for ppl camping a spot means nothing--

were you camping a wing or were you camping a spawn? BoT is always fun when theres nothin else goin on. the ooc and shout fights are hilarious.

BoT is like a mini ssra. ask RiP and FD and EW and CB and LS how those disputes usually turn out.

BTW, if it isn't engaged it isn't KSing, and there's no such thing as a camp. come to terms with those rules and you will be a happier player. specially in BoT.

in the urban dictionary, soomeone posted as a definition: 'The rules of common decency do not apply to us'. This is an example of some folks with no common decency.

Yes, BoT is tard heaven anymore. I just loooove going into a zone where DPS-free clueless dorks claim every spot with 4 or more spawns a 'camp'.

Doesn't mean running over people to grab a named is any less shitty, but hey, whatcha gonna do?

Dfrac

Holy shit. Caean, you playing again?

yup yup, been playing for about 3 months after a year off.

A Time guild farming ornate in BoT?
That must be a joke! :lol

Weeeee! I made the NAG forums!

Well I guess I need to put my 2 copper in and let yall judge me if you want.


I was in the aforementioned group in BoT (yeah I'm broke and i was farming ornate, sue me, you wanna charge me 5pp per spider silk I'm gonna farm some plat! ). Here's what happened and no it doesn't show me at my best :)

I was with a friend in a camp at mid south killing Ymir whatshisname, I check track on the ranger and see Hreidar's up in west. I mosey on over to west before Ymir is pulled and see a group exping up at the top of the steps in the west wing. I go back to pull a couple mobs and then Ymir. We finish pulling adds and kill off Ymir and I hit track again, Hreidar is still up. It's been 15 mins at this point so we decide to invis in and kill Hreidar. Both spawns in front of Hreidar's room are up and his room is full pop.

We clear the two outside his room and clear his room as well. We killed Hreidar and are heading out to check Oreen (next in rotation) and Sandain's group was just clearing the mob in the corner of the hallway leading to the room before Hreidar's room, when they see us leaving.

Sandain sends me a tell sayin I leapfrogged them and what a dick I was for being in IvM and keeping all the loot to myself and how he's going to talk with an officer about it. No reply from me. Sends me another tell with basically the same sentiment so I replied 'If talking to an officer will make you feel better then go for it' . He continues sending me tells as my friend and I go on to kill Oreen (yeah yeah go us :/ ).

As Oreen hits the floor i check track and Wybjorn (sp?) had popped, and by this time I'm tired of Sandain bitching at me in tells, so when it's suggested we go kill him, i say sure :) . Yeah that was probably the wrong thing to do and i did feel a bit guilty about it. Sandain then proceeds to spam OOC with FUCK YOU IVM yada yada KILL STEALING ASSHOLES yada yada. He and some of his group mates decided they should come help us during the fight and figured we could use 4 or 5 mobs to charm for some dps, i guess. So we finish killin the turkeybee guy and I rez and virtue their cleric and our ench voq's her, and as I ran out I handed the 35hp 35mana range item the bee dropped, to one of Sandain's groupmates that could use it. Kailyn seemed happy about it and I figured I had made the best of a bad situation that I was a part of. I knew I was bein a dick when we went in to kill the bee but I've never been accused of taking other people's badgering tells with the most patience or understanding.

I apologize for my part in killin Wybjorn and will try and learn a little from this incident and try to avoid it in the future :)

what im a bit confused over,is why any guild with access to Sol Ro tower would waste time and effort farming BoT minis.when ornate drops off the yard trash in sol ro (all parts but BP).and are way easier to farm and better exp to boot.
/boggle

My DPS alt wasn't flagged for SRT and the mini's in bot always drop something. Sometimes runes and sometimes twink / bazaar stuff.

Immort

stfu immort!!!11!@@! loelz

in the urban dictionary, soomeone posted as a definition: 'The rules of common decency do not apply to us'. This is an example of some folks with no common decency.

And if you look up your guild...oh wait...your guild folded =(

anyone castin HoV in PoK?

:D

funniest thing i ever saw :(

next to Baltyn and his lil cleric foo foo shouts in PoT :o

oops!

pssst Immort....GFY FOAD keep my foo foo out of it

" and as I ran out I handed the 35hp 35mana range item the bee dropped, to one of Sandain's groupmates that could use it. "

Would you have handed out, or offered, the item had it been a piece of ornate or a rune/spectral, i.e. not a piece of trash?
For some folks, especially those who don't have the time to be involved in a guild, BoT is the biggest thing they may ever do, the best shot at upgrades they are going to get, as well as the best exp zone they have access to (yeah, it's a cesspool these days, and Faervas has had to leave his last two groups there due to stupiditity of truly mindboggling proportions, but still). That 'slumming uberguilders' would not only leapfrog over folks working their way to a mini (I'm presuming they were close), not just once, but twice in a row knowing full well that they were screwing someone, and brag that they were then going to sell or twink with the drops, just makes me ill.

FYI, Faervas and I *have* a nice little guild, are pretty well-connected, and neither of us even has a single *piece* of ornate. We can't afford to buy it, and on the few occasions we have been in a group where we 1) got to the minis before they were ganked and 2) something we could use dropped, the item almost invariably went to someone who couldn't or wouldn't use the item, and had the intention of immediately putting it up for sale. Loot is not what what we play for, and BoT is not a fun place to hunt in these days (and most of our guild can't go there yet), so we don't go often, and I am well aware of the 'law of the jungle', but it still sickens me that folks out of simple greed would think nothing of snatching what is an *exciting* encounter and chance at upgrades away from folks.

The one time we got Oreen (this was some time back) we took him down with the warrior dead, Faervas OOM, the ranger was at 1%, and the wizard was getting summoned. It was *close*, and very exciting for us. We had been *in* the room when he spawned, and by the time he dropped there were already scouters for *two* larger guilds, who I am guessing had the spawn timed, in the room watching to see if we'd wipe, and a group moving invis up the hall. He dropped... the ring ;) . Which, it turned out, two of our folks still needed, so we went home happy.

Sheesh, guys, if all you're up there for is to score some easy cash, have half a heart and think of folks who don't *have* the options you do, and for whom that might be the biggest thing they did in EQ all week or month...

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

Let me save time for the pretentious

*ahem*
The only reason you don't have the options we do is because you're not willing to do what it takes to create those options for yourself and/or guild

You're not missing out on ornate because an uberguild "screws" you out of it everytime. You're missing out on ornate because you don't have the time to play EQ or choose to do other things instead, which is fine, but by now you should realize EQ is all about how much time you can put into the game, and not much more. You don't really get "uber" by playing 2 times a week.

I still don't see what anyone did wrong. This people just aren't used to it probably because they don't raid. You can't be standing at the entrance to PoFire and "call" Fennin Ro.

You can't be standing at the entrance to PoFire and "call" Fennin Ro.

Technically atm if they are standing in PoFire, they likely can call Fennin. Not like 6 people are going to contest it.

all i have to say is that it takes some of us non uber ppl longer to get to a mob....we can't just invis and run into the room and take on 6 mobs plus a mini at once....so we have to clear the way...which we were doing both times they took the mobs from us.....but hey if it makes them feel better to step on potential applications to IVM then they must not need more peeps......

falon

LOL @ U, IMMORT!11!

Good show mukaz, you beat him to the punch by 4 minutes..

but hey if it makes them feel better to step on potential applications to IVM then they must not need more peeps

I doubt we'll be seeing your app anytime soon. /cry

There are many forms of competition in this game. In this case it was racing to kill a particular mob(s). You lost so you come here to cry about it. I'd be asking myself how I lost and what I could do to avoid that in the future. Bitching about shit like this does absolutely no good.

There are numerous spells, especially with BoT being an outdoor zone, that will help you to be more competitive.

have half a heart and think of folks who don't *have* the options you do

Everyone has the same options in this game; it's what YOU do with those options that makes the difference.

A Time guild farming ornate in BoT?

Not the sharpest crayon in the box are ya? Do you think pp are just spread out on the ground in Time?

I prefer Sol Ro tower for my ornate farming for the simple fact that the majority of this servers dumbasses can't get in.


Sig too large

Technically atm if they are standing in PoFire, they likely can call Fennin. Not like 6 people are going to contest it.

Yeah I meant how when you get to be in a guild, you'll end up racing for some mob along the way and you don't sit there and cry because you were too slow to get to it first or say just because you were in the zone, you were "camping" it. This is life in EQ, get over it and go kill something else.

Oh yeah Oipunx...I dunno who told you it was funny to always spout random crap in every thread, but you're retarded. Stop it.

quote]Sheesh, guys, if all you're up there for is to score some easy cash, have half a heart and think of folks who don't *have* the options you do, and for whom that might be the biggest thing they did in EQ all week or month...[/quote]

I'm glad you believe that everything that guilds like I am in have, are simply handed to us and we don't work at all to get to where we are in the game. If there's a named up and someone is exping in the zone because they have unflagged alts, they aren't allowed to go for it because they have a time flag? Bullshit.

If you read Immort’s post explaining what happened, the group claiming he “KS’d” them, didn’t even get to the room by the time he was dead. I’m going to go to Kael and camp Statue from the WL zone line, Hi.

After that, he did continue to kill named, its true… after getting attacked in tells, swore at in ooc and getting a train. You bet your ass if someone starts pulling that shit on me, I would’ve killed every fucking named up in that entire zone that I was able to. Throwing a hissy fit because you lost a race to a mob does not entitle you to shit, especially when you come at it like a 6 year old. Would you give loot to someone harassing you in tells, telling you that you are a kill stealing asshole, and “Fuck you, ______”? Immort did more than most people would’ve ever thought of given the same situation.


Btw, I'd like to add that the urban dictionary is a wonderful source of legitimate information...

You don't really get "uber" by playing 2 times a week

Nope, you get "uber" by developing a tolerance for associating yourselves with people you wouldn't stop to spit on if it weren't for furthering your gameplay experience.

Yes, time helps, but you can put in all the time you want and you're not going to drop RZ or the bosses in VT with all the time in the world.

Caean.. are you role-playing a self rightous asshole? Im hoping to God thats whats going on.. I have no other idea as to how a person could get just such a massively distorted self image.

I mean seriously.. who the fuck are you anyway? You play A VIDEO GAME.. get over yourself.
Your broad ranged pre-concieved notions and generalizitions belie a below average intelligence or some sort of serious psychosis, maybe both.

Or maybe its the result of some sort of rationalization covering your lack of ability to function cooperatively with a large group of people.


Sterotypes and rationalizations... the products of a weak mind

You get uber by making friends, and developing teamwork skills with the same people day after day.

You laugh with these people, you cry with these people, you die with these people.

You spend hours on end working with these people doing things over and over until you can get it right.

It isn't just a fucking game. It's a hobby for some, and obsession for others. It doesn't matter what it is to you, but I take my hobbies and obsession's seriously. I like knowing that everything my in game avatar has to show stems from hours of working with these people mentioned above.

The ONLY way to get out of doing this is to buy a character where someone has already done it for you.

/agree with the last two guys

You really don't know what it's like to be in a decent guild Caean.

I mean seriously.. who the fuck are you anyway? You play A VIDEO GAME.. get over yourself.

Lol I dunno wtf you're talking about, sounds like he really struck a nerve with you. Step on a few 'friends' to get where you are now L2?

Master Damoiel Mindbend
Retired Enchanter of the 60th Season

He's just mad cuz the sox choked.

Since this thread started, I've been exchanging stories about getting screwed by IvM with other guildies and friends, and oddly enough, the same name shows up in every single story.

Bohbo.

Anyone else got some Bohbo stories they want to share?

Dear Samanusuke:

Please actually read my post before replying. I did not say, or imply anywhere in my post, that folks in 'uberguilds' haven't 'worked' for what they have; I didn't say anything about them as a 'species', actually :) . However, most folks in the top end guilds have a lot more time to spend in EQ than the average 40+ hour workweek, spouse, 2 kids and a mortgage schmuck does (which is what most of my little guild consists of). If you're only playing 10 hours a week (which is still a significant amount of time), chances are, you aren't in a big raiding guild. We have folks in our guild who have playing very regularly since before the serversplit (on the same toon) and are just now hitting the high 50s. Part-timers, regardless at how good they are at playing their characters, *don't* have the same options (guild wise, or adventure wise) that folks who can devote massive blocks of time to EQ do...

"Nope, you get "uber" by developing a tolerance for associating yourselves with people you wouldn't stop to spit on if it weren't for furthering your gameplay experience."

I do to some extent agree with this statement. Some folks would rather not 'gain the world and lose their souls', so to speak, and so limit their in-game associations to folks that they actually respect. Sometimes, I'll end up in a pickup group with a member of (insert uberguild name here), and during the course of the evening, the person's behavior will be *so* egregious, or incompetent, or both, that Faervas and I will be asking ourselves: How in the *hell* did that person make it into XXX?, and shake our heads. Sometimes, strict 'quality control' over the *character* of the folks you associate with makes for a life spent mostly on a much smaller scale in game...

And finally, some of us *prefer* the small scale game. And what the heck is wrong with that? My preferred raid size is 18 people - any more and the experience becomes less personal, the individual matters less, and people start to become generic cogs in the machine. I don't mind an occasional larger scale raid for the experience of it - but would not want a steady diet of such. Uberguild life? No thanks - for a wide variety of reasons. But I've wandered quite a bit here.

I guess the reason that I bothered to reply at all in this thread was to rebut the kneejerk assertion, by Samanusuke and a couple of other folks who have chosen the uberguild life, that small = meaningless. Just because an encounter isn't significant to you, or doesn't drop anything that you'd do anything but sell or put on a twink, doesn't mean that that it isn't highly rewarding and challenging to someone who might be an equally good player, but might for any number of reasons *play the game differently*, and that person, those people, have the right to be treated with a modicum of respect in any case.

In this specific case, the person in the exp group in BoT didn't help himself out by getting abusive when the IvM group leapfrogged them. But what the IvM group did afterwards was just spiteful and mean spirited, and they could have been the 'bigger men' that they were, and gone after other 'trash' quarry, and left those folks in peace...

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Automous Collective

I refuse to reply to this kind of thing anymore, with the exception of the statement that you completely missed my point. It had nothing to do with saying not being uber made you any less of a player or a person. An abusive person should not expect to be shown remorse by a fellow player.

The End.

Nydia, that would be beneath them as superior Everquest players. Cmon, keep up here.

Master Damoiel Mindbend
Retired Enchanter of the 60th Season

Lol I dunno wtf you're talking about, sounds like he really struck a nerve with you. Step on a few 'friends' to get where you are now L2?

No.. actually never have..
Heres my old characters (lleauarics) history.
First guild.
Heroes of Fawdyer (or however it was spelled). Led by a guy I STILL consider to this day a friend, Gedes, Helped him and others out on occasion as they were still on Karana.
Guild broke up.. Joined a guild led by Buadyen.. damn me If I cant remember the name.. Gerf was a good friend and he got me in.. Buadyen cut back on his Playtime at that point so the guild went almost inactive, we raided a little bit with Allied Giants (Qamans guild) as part of the Forged Alliance, plane of fear.. mid to end of Kunark days.
Left that guild to Join Nightmare Clan..
Fandros got me in.. I left one day when Mooshi wanted to do a raid I didnt agree with because of a friendship I had with Chameleos, a french enchanter whom I leveled up with, that was in a guild schedualed for that on the KCG.
Once I left NC.. My friend Micon got me into Eternal Wrath, right at the very beginning of Velious and by the time the Server split happened I was a Full member of EW.
helped get many people from my past guilds into EW..

So no.. I can honestly say I NEVER stepped on anyone.

I love how non ubers think ubers are just a bunch of people who would guild with anyone or anything to get loot. If you haven't been there, then shut up. The real truth is, a lot of "ubers" continue playing the game long after they care about loot because they feel obligated to the people they have come to call friends. Holy shit, what a concept, eh?

We have folks in our guild who have playing very regularly since before the serversplit (on the same toon) and are just now hitting the high 50s.

They must play about 2 minutes a week then because even at that rate you should have been 60(+) after all this time.

This thread is reaching new depths of retardation.

They must play about 2 minutes a week then because even at that rate you should have been 60(+) after all this time.

This thread is reaching new depths of retardation.

I couldn't agree more....every time you open your cum dumpster it degenerates further.

Leveling isn't the only way to enjoy EQ. Its something I enjoy and I probably have more played time on my deleted fucking alts than you do on your main but transferring that type of play onto someone else and judging them by that standard is wrong. Thats the lame ass uber attitude casuals have a problem with.

"If you aren't playing our way you don't know what you're talking about"

Fuck you

They must play about 2 minutes a week then because even at that rate you should have been 60(+) after all this time.

EQ isnt all about the XP grind. Some people do fun shit that doesnt get them xp. I could play for hours having lots of fun and not get xp worth a damn

No.. actually never have..
Heres my old characters (lleauarics) history.
First guild.
Heroes of Fawdyer (or however it was spelled). Led by a guy I STILL consider to this day a friend, Gedes, Helped him and others out on occasion as they were still on Karana.
Guild broke up.. Joined a guild led by Buadyen.. damn me If I cant remember the name.. Gerf was a good friend and he got me in.. Buadyen cut back on his Playtime at that point so the guild went almost inactive, we raided a little bit with Allied Giants (Qamans guild) as part of the Forged Alliance, plane of fear.. mid to end of Kunark days.

Well, since you brought me into this, the pedant in me compels me to set the story straight.

My history:
Started release week on Tarew Marr. Played a paladin until early fall when I just... stopped playing. I went to my parents over my Xmas vacation and went over to one of my friend's from high school's place. We got to talking about games and stuff over the past year and he mentioned they played EQ. That's when I started Buadyen.

Anyway, this friend (Falen) and several others were in Heroes of Faydwer. He had had the guild leadership passed to him from someone else (Ciniel? Some basketcase chick character who's name started with 'C'. I never delved into that history). He invited me to HoF at around my mid-teens. This was all early-mid 2000, before Kunark was released.

Sometime shortly before Velious released, I was running through the Dreadlands when an exchange similar to this happened:

Falen tells you, 'You ready?'
/who falen
[45+ Wizard] Falen <Heros of Faydwer>
There is 1 player in The Dreadlands

Thinking we were going to form a group and go exping somwhere, I replied "Yes"

The next thing I see:
You are now the leader of your guild.

That's a hell of a way to become a guildleader....

Anyway, that's when HoF became associated somewhat with the (non-evil) Karana Council of Guilds, and joined the much-reviled KGC rotations as part of the Forged Alliance (Midnight Sun, Allied Giants, The Lightbringers, and Heroes of Faydwer)

I wasn't happy with the guildleader tag, but I stuck with it as best as I could.. I wasn't going to move in the split to A Ro, but something happened that was "the last straw", so I did /movelog yes and transferred the leader tag to someone else.

/point Oipunx

*drops the gloves*

*yanks the jersey over Oipunx's gead*

"I love how non ubers think ubers are just a bunch of people who would guild with anyone or anything to get loot."

"The real truth is, a lot of "ubers" continue playing the game long *after* (emphasis added :) ) they care about loot"

Interesting set of sentences :) . But seriously, I love how quickly some of the self-appointed 'ubers' posting here put words into people's mouths. Once again, I didn't make any blanket statements or imply that people in uberguilds were by default all lootwhores or otherwise not worthy of respect. I have some very good friends, whom I respect a great deal, in several of the 'top' guilds on the server; we frequently exp group together, I invite them to come hang out with AC, etc. I don't give a rat's ass about anyone's tag on this server; either the *person* is a decent human being, or they are not. Respect is something you earn, whether you're in EW or guildless; and in this instance, the IvM folks did something not terribly classy, which, because they were a guild group, is going to reflect back on their guild. Repeat this behavior often enough, and you start to get a 'reputation' for such things.

People join large raiding guilds for a lot of different reasons: as Dart mentioned, they like the investment, emotional and otherwise, that goes into learning to work as a team; or the learning curve that comes with mastering complicated large scale encounters; or the excitement and glory of taking down huge targets; or being in the coolest frat on campus; or, yes, really really phat loots. People's reasons for making their game choices are their own, and I'm certainly not going to judge others about their personal choices. But when people get the idea that their playstyle in a game, or the extra-special tag over their head, makes them 'better' (read more entitled) somehow than folks who chose a different path, that's when I get my panties in a wad... :)

Big game, small game... neither one is 'better' than the other, only different, because what constitutes 'play' is rather subjective, isn't it? One man's meat is another man's poison, and all that.

Play nice, y'all...

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

Yep..

Youre right Buad. I was in a guild before HoF.. thats the one I cant remember.

For what its worth.. You did a great job from what I remember, and when EW had recruiting drives, I always tried to put your name in, despite you having no interest and us not being even being friends.

SHAtrius is right.. You have no idea what the motivations of being in a "true" uber guild are.. for the greast majority (sure there are exceptions) loot has VERY little to do with it..
its loyalty and belief in a good leader.
Anyone in EW at the all night Trak camp, or up till 4 in the morning Zland raid, hardcore mobs and multiple wipes with the ONLY reward was lost experience and lack of sleep. BUt you went to bed happy because you got the mob 1% lower this time, or got a little better as a guild..

As far as me, I started my wizard in a different age.. Wizards SUCKED.. vastly underpowered.. nerfed as hard as any class ever.. So wizards that survived had to have KNOW thier class and play to their strengths, because in straight Seb grind group.. 10 out of 10 groups would take a Rogue.
I played my toon the way I thought I should from the beginning... Id always try to be the lowest level in the group in the hardest DUNGEON I could find... or Id do things that I thought could (and often did) cause me and my group to wipe at any second.. A good evacer with smart DPS was only essential in places like Howling Stones, Paeblea area of DN, places that, in the day were empty because places like Seb or Karnors had easier xp and better loot.
Those places arent fun... and thats why I played the game..

EW was a guild FILLED with those type of people..
Thats why they are so successful as a guild.

I think many of us not in the top guilds tend to attribute more loot oriented motivations to the ubers than actually exists. The cause of this is most of us have experience as "stepping stone" guilds. A new member shows up, raids for a while with us, grabs the best loot he can, then bolts to apply to a guild higher up the food chain. We have all seen it. Sadly, I think that leaves those who are left behind with the notion that the top tier guilds are filled with such people.

Occasionally a member of a top guild does come down from on high and screw over other folks (every guild has a couple of these people....don't take it as a knock on your particular guild). This of course reinforces the perception and since many of the lower guilds rarely encounter the top tier guilds on a wider basis, they take the limited sample of one person being a butthole as indicative of the rest of that guild. Unfair I agree, but that is what I see happening.

I hate even saying the word uber when refering to myself or the people I play with. Uber just sounds way too vain. We made it to elemental planes not because we were uber but had a sense of family and meshed well together. Sort of like a "ill watch your back you watch mine" mentality.

Not all people in higher end guilds are mean or nasty. Most are very personable and willing to help a stranger at the drop of a hat if approached in the right way. Hell I remeber not knowing shit about this game and one day running across a character named Lleauaric in Akheva and grouping and having some fun with him. Two weeks later the madman was handing me a brand new windblade when no one even knew what the fuck a windblade was. At that time he could have sold it for who knows how much since PoP was brand new and no one even knew what a windblade was. Instead he gave it to a lvl 55 shadowknight who didnt have shit and could never repay him even if he tried.

Flash foward to now. Im elemental flagged wearing elemental gear and trying my hardest to give back to some of the people not as fortunate as me. We are not monsters we just play hard and love to compete. Talk to Immort ive known him for 2 years and is as easy to talk to as they come. Let bygones be bygones trust me ive learned some lessons the last couple years in this game we play :)

Xregg

You really don't know what it's like to be in a decent guild Caean.<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>

Red Branch
Vea Victus
Vallis Aspectus

You have no clue who I am and you spew out ignorance like a college freshman on his first day of orientation.

and Lleauaric, I've been quite able to get along with large groups of people, from sports in RL to guilds in EQ; and your attacks don't bother me so pick on someone who will give you the att<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->

i * heart * caean

Ezboard Code > Caean

Besides.. IvM, VV..

So that means Gazamel, Nandari and the other assorted cast of shit heads..

ya.. I can see your point now and cant really argue your perspective..

Plus RB? fucking gnomes.

so going to hurt you...

ez codes suck =~(

I'm going to chime in on this thread because the players in the upper tier guilds had posting in this thread dripping with self importants and grandeur beyond belief. A few weeks back I was in BB and getting ready to start LDoN adventure. I'm buffing my group lom and medding for the next virtue. I'm a 65 cleric and lacking hand of virtue in my spell book. so I'm medding. my group is waiting on me to med up my mana and finish buffing. So we can Move. I get a tell

IVM_member tells you, 'pardon, can i buy a virtue buff?'

I ignore the tell because I get about 10 an hour when I'm not on /role or /anon. I also don't make a habit to buff players that randomly ask for buffs. I have stood there with LFG get asked for buffs and the next line is a shout or OOC Group looking for more. so they want my buffs but they don't want a cleric?

1 min later
IVM_member says, 'Hail, Faervas'

ignored again

i min later
IVM_member tells you, '40 pp for virtue?'
You told IVM_member, 'nope'

ok that is how far most of buff beggers go. sometimes I get kk thanks for your time. So the guys insist to continue

IVM_member tells you, 'how much?'
You told IVM_member, 'what part of no you don't understand the N or the O?'

you can imagine the rest I'm called a dick head, noob, yadda, yadda.

ok I'm in my adventure been about 20 mins when this happen.

unknown tells you, 'boo !! '
You told unknown, '???'
unknown tells you, 'I'm name_of_person_I_know.'

it's someone I know and had respect for even helped out on a few ragefires. when the RF camp was nasty. So the next lines I know exactly who I'm talking to. an officer of IVM

IVM_officer tells you, 'you were rude to our guildmate , i hope you like youe lower tier guild '
You told IVM_officer, 'and I'm in the guild I want to be in doing what I want'
IVM_officer tells you, 'thats good to hear'

So you tell me why players like me have little or no respect for players in uber guilds when it's obvious they think they are better then us. To them we should Roll over and let them have what they want because they are uber.

So somebody needed your help and you refused to help them. I'm not sure this is something to be proud of.

Buff begging is not 'needing' someone's help. If this person was that desparate for Virtue (and apparently didn't want to actually group a cleric for his own LDoN, as Faervas related the story to me), he could certainly have asked one of the clerics in his own guild, or made the short trip to PoK to visit one of the many buff bots that can be found there?

Faervas' group was waiting on his mana so that they could go start their own adventure. In this instance, the time of the members of his *own* group was worth more than the money of the person asking for the buff. This person would not only not take the ignored requests, the first no, or the *second* no for an answer, but went crying off to his own guild officers when the cleric (who surely, because he was sitting there, existed to service him, yes?) had the gall to refuse him. The guild officer, instead of simply saying 'why not go to PoK and get a buff' or buffing him herself (since she was a cleric in this instance), decided to actually bother trying to snub Faervas (implying by her statement 'I hope you like your lower tier guild' that he'd 'never get work in her town' with his attitude, assuming that he would ever want to).

I can't imagine what sort of thought processes went into this decision, but it doesn't seem like common sense was involved. It sounds a lot like someone came up with, yes, an *entitlement* mentality ("Buff me, peasant!" /throws some coppers) and then became outraged when said 'peasant' refused. Faervas is not the sort of person to ever refuse a person when they are in genuine need, regardless of their tag, but this was not such a case.

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

So somebody needed your help and you refused to help them. I'm not sure this is something to be proud of.

What help did he need? He was sitting in a LDoN camp in a newbie zone? He wanted a buff that he didn't need. I also don't support a system that would put another cleric out of spot in a group. Other may do so but I do not. Also look at what he was saying. In the end he assume that I'm just being greedy and name your price.

oh ya immort?? well grats on your team giving Keith Tkachuk his 400th goal!! And i thought he had retired hehe.

the same name shows up in every single story.


/chuckle

The same (old)guild name you mean.

Tides of Valor rulez!

I would like to stay mature, but unfortunately my friend, the times of good ole Everquest are gone. Whereas names of old would scare anyone who heard it, such as a certain druid that trained LGuk into submission, those people were rare, and feared because of infamous tales of wasted time, due to all the training and dying had by many players.

The times of Mesha's being rare are gone, every 9th grader with his penis in his hand and ''spelz liek it 2'' does it, and frankly I'm tired of it. I'm tired of friends sending me tells saying "Man this group just fucked us over on our <insert what you're doing here> and told us to GFY." It aggrovates me to no end, I am sick of putting up with it. Where once a calm cool Orun would have ruled, the degenrate masses of players who ruin my and many others experiences rule the day have killed him dead dead dead, it's Corpse Camping PK'ing all over again, in a different form. Same pain, different situation.

I will not put up with it, and I don't expect anyone else too, aswell. And if some bone smoker thinks he's all 1337 and /petition "daddy_gm_1498477362, X Y nad Z r Bing meenees, bna them pls" because they don't like being confronted when they do wrong, well kiss my X amount of money goodbye, I expect a certain amount of civil decancy(spelling?) when I come onto EverQuest, but as the years go bye, I've seen that civil decancy(again, spelling?) fall apart in a corrupt shadow of what the game could be with a healthy community of well-minded people. People like Lyrik, Jessamyn, Iumari, my own woman, Caliendra, and many many many other people who make this game a positive influence and overall improve on the fun factor of this game.

I guess I'm just tired of this ever-increasing societal abyss of degenerate peons who swarm onto a server, piss all over everyone, then sell their accounts for wads of cash because they can. Alas, I suppose dicks need entertainment too.

So I suppose, in short, I'm sick and tired of these suckass people ruining our community.

Makes me glad I chose Vallis all those many years back. So so many great people. Sandain, Larlaana, Galuda, Lyrik, Nitrain, Sorack, Santerre, Danidella, Festus before he went on his tyrade, Artallen.. Man I'd give anything for it to be 2000 again.



Orun

So somebody needed your help and you refused to help them. I'm not sure this is something to be proud of. Hahahah. Glen, come on.

So you tell me why players like me have little or no respect for players in uber guilds when it's obvious they think they are better then us. To them we should Roll over and let them have what they want because they are uber.

You have no respect for someone because they asked for virtue and you couldn't even take the 2 seconds to explain to them you were medding for a group about to go into their adventure?

That's fucking retarded man, with your shitty attitude, no wonder people step all over you.

Amen, shortyrez

Hate to say it but i agree 100% with Shorty. *shakes head*

Well, Faervas and I take opposite tacks on this one. He gets tired of having to explain to each and every person who asks for a buff when he is occupied why he won't or can't do it at the time, and feels that it isn't necessary to respond to tells. I *do* reply to everyone who sends me a tell, and the result is that I get *much* more abuse than he does. Most *polite* people will have the decency to ask another cleric, chanter, whatever, if someone doesn't respond, instead of hammering away and then whining to their guild when they don't get what they wanted. ("Mommy! that mean mean cleric wouldn't buff me...")

One other little tidbit of note regarding this situation was that there was a Final Destiny cleric (and personal friend of ours) also sitting in the camp, right next to Faervas' group. I wonder why the person in this instance didn't ask the FD cleric for the buff? Perhaps he did, and she ignored him (we do know that she did not buff him :) ), but I'll warrant that *she* didn't get an abusive tell from a guild officer about it...

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

LOL, what is it with upper tier guilds (particularly IVM) and "I hope you like <the "lesser" guild that you're in now>"? Do they think that's actually an insult?

I've had similar experiences with one of the same IVM members that were involved in this BoT incident, that ended with the same tell: "I hope you like your current guild"

(These logs have been posted here before...)

To set the Scene.... it's in Eastern Wastes, and I'm sitting at the Great Divide zone with my cleric after getting screwed out of the 8th ring event by a couple of lying idiots.... I wasn't in the best of moods.

[Sat Jun 15 08:28:49 2002] Bohbo tells you, 'can you pls rez me'
[Sat Jun 15 08:29:27 2002] You told Bohbo, 'yes, drag it to the GD zone'

A perfectly reasonable request followed by an equally reasonable response.

[Sat Jun 15 08:29:32 2002] Bohbo tells you, 'im in SH'
[Sat Jun 15 08:29:38 2002] Bohbo tells you, 'i died right by you guys'
[Sat Jun 15 08:29:47 2002] Bohbo tells you, 'i was trying to help clean up teh mess'
[Sat Jun 15 08:30:21 2002] Bohbo tells you, 'if you do teh 8th ring you should clean it up'
[Sat Jun 15 08:30:29 2002] You told Bohbo, 'lol. I didn't do it'
[Sat Jun 15 08:30:40 2002] You told Bohbo, 'that was LoTJ that messed it up'

I don't care how you died, but when I'm in a bad mood and you try to blame some incompetent liar's mess on me, it's not going to make me any happier.

[Sat Jun 15 08:30:40 2002] Bohbo tells you, 'would you pls rez me'
[Sat Jun 15 08:32:52 2002] You told Bohbo, 'sorry, I'm not in a good mood this morning, and I don't appreciate your implications with respect to LoTJ's botched 8th ring. If you can drag your corpse to the GD zone, and I'm still here, I will res it. '
[Sat Jun 15 08:33:07 2002] Bohbo tells you, '....'
[Sat Jun 15 08:33:27 2002] Bohbo tells you, 'how am i suppose to drag my corpse there'
[Sat Jun 15 08:34:20 2002] You told Bohbo, 'the same way any meleer who died without a cleric at their side would: get back to the zone and drag it'

*boggle* I'm not even going to begin to try to guess how someone in an upper tier guild couldn't figure this out for himself...

[Sat Jun 15 08:35:04 2002] You told Bohbo, 'but I've been in this zone way too long already, and I'm not inclined to go wandering about resing people.'
[Sat Jun 15 08:35:43 2002] Bohiti tells you, 'eat my arse'
[Sat Jun 15 08:35:48 2002] Bohiti tells you, 'i dont need your rez jackass'
[Sat Jun 15 08:35:54 2002] Bohiti tells you, 'have fun in vision'

Oh look, there it is.... the "Have fun in your pathetic little newbie guild" quote...

[Sat Jun 15 08:36:54 2002] You told Bohiti, 'LOL. I will. real nice attitude their, btw... it's generally considered unwise to mouth off to someone who yuo're asking for help and who DOES NOT have to help you.'
[Sat Jun 15 08:37:52 2002] You say to your guild, 'yay. I'm making all sorts of friends today.'

Of course, if I had gone through the trouble of ressing him, he probably would have bitched me out for not using Reviviscence, despite the fact that my cleric couldn't have cast the spell at that time.

You have no respect for someone because they asked for virtue and you couldn't even take the 2 seconds to explain to them you were medding for a group about to go into their adventure?
/chuckles, and those are the same people who jump on someone who asked a rezz and didn't get any answer, right? ;)

Immortalis, I may not be the smartest crayon, but you made my point with your answer... You can go to SRT instead of BoT because BoT blows, and drop rate is better in SRT.
It's not because you are Time flagged that I imply you are xping in Time. :\ /boggles

Well I'll tell you one thing. If you think all people in high end guilds are the same, you are sorely mistaken. I can't remember ever having anything bad to say about anyone in EW, VV, or CB when I was still leveling during Kunark/Velious. I remember quite a few clerics buffing and rezzing, and enchanters passing out clarity, sometimes without even asking. Ehrnam, Alyx, Mezmith, Valdaan, Leto, and I'm sure a ton others I'm forgetting. Hell, Zehn even dragged my corpse once in The Grey after I got munched by some stray mobs in his quad. I didn't even ask and we had never even really spoke before. Hell, I may be an ass on the message boards but I don't ever recall rejecting any reasonable request for a rez, regardless of guildtag. Halloween 2001 had some really fucked GM event where people had multiple corpses in EK and I remember staying until everyone was rezzed.

If the game has changed that much since I played regularly, it's very sad, but somehow I doubt it.

BTW - If you take abuse from an IvM member, tell an officer. I know they don't stand for that kinda crap. Feel free to send me SSs at shortyrez@fiveminutestilmidnight.com and I'll bring it to someone's attention if you don't want to.

ShortyRez, Where is my damn ice cream?

Sothgar

Haha damn bro, didn't know you were still around. Hope you're doing well. =)

There are some nice people, then there are people who are complete jackasses reguardless of guildtag.

And then there are people like me who, though being jackasses, will gladly log on my cleric to rez you after I train you for trying to cut in on my mobs.

*coughs*

and then theres me, who won't heal certain wizards, even though i'm leeching off of him

And then there's me, who'll charge someone 100pp for a rez after I train him with my friends Cleric, rezzing him right next to mobs he's KoS too just so I can rez him again and charge him another 100.

Er...

Heheh I am doing good Shorty, Just gettin bored of EQ thinking about quitting.

Sothgar

but unfortunately my friend, the times of good ole Everquest are gone

Anyone who disagrees with this statement was probably not around long enough to know what it means.

Using invis ogre's to trap people in SolB and kill them with trains, monks crying about casters looting FBSS's but having no qualms about looting an SMR, spending 8 hours lfg.

Hoy boy, good times.

I'm going to chime in on this thread because the players in the upper tier guilds had posting in this thread dripping with self importants and grandeur beyond belief. [lom] I get a tell

IVM_member tells you, 'pardon, can i buy a virtue buff?'

I ignore the tell because I get about 10 an hour when I'm not on /role or /anon. I also don't make a habit to buff players that randomly ask for buffs.

1 min later
IVM_member says, 'Hail, Faervas'

ignored again

i min later
IVM_member tells you, '40 pp for virtue?'
You told IVM_member, 'nope'

-------------------------
From my perspective, I see someone asking you VERY nicely if they can buy a virtue buff, and they get no response, then they hail you, no hail back, then they try again another min later.. and get nope..

If the roles were reversed, if that cleric was from IvM and you were from a small guild, what you you say? stupid ass is dreaming of illusions of grandeur that even with ft38 and a 6k mana pool he wouldn't give me a virtue..

Basically you were an asshole, the guy said nicely can I donate for a virtue and he even did it very nicely saying pardon.. you could have replied (the first time) I'm sorry we started our adventure and I'm lom, I need to med.. he would have left you alone, instead you were high and mighty too good to respond..

The reason I had to reply is because if you want to be a dick that's fine lots out there, if someone asked Oipunx for a virtue he was fm and didn't want to do it he'd reply LOELZ STFU GFY becuase he's real, he doesn't hide it, you otoh are just a dick that pretends to be a nice guy woe is me I don't have mana so I'll just ignore this guy, (when mana isn't an issue because you ignore 10+ people an hour)..

if someone asked Oipunx for a virtue he was fm and didn't want to do it he'd reply LOELZ STFU GFY

Nah he'd be like "DUDE I HAV a CUSTUMOR ADN I NED 4 ARBY'S ROAEST BEEF SANDWICHHEZ SO GO FUK URSELV!!!11!"

*nods*

Master Damoiel Mindbend
Retired Enchanter of the 60th Season

Using invis ogre's to trap people in SolB and kill them with trains, monks crying about casters looting FBSS's but having no qualms about looting an SMR, spending 8 hours lfg

Odd I have different memories. Course I was an ogre and when I started Monks didnt whine about shit cause there were none.

just read this whole stupid ass thread. i feel dumber.


anyway..

My DPS alt wasn't flagged for SRT and the mini's in bot always drop something. Sometimes runes and sometimes twink / bazaar stuff.

actually, of the last 15 minis ive killed in bot, 3 have dropped something other than a spec+ring, or just a ring.
so "always" was definately not the word you meant to use, im sure.

the regular named are a a billion times more lucrative than minis.

anyway, this thread has outlived its potential. sucks i actually read it all.

From my perspective, I see someone asking you VERY nicely if they can buy a virtue buff, and they get no response, then they hail you, no hail back, then they try again another min later.. and get nope..

I posted the log knowing full well I was no angel. We were in a zone with other clerics that could cast virtue on him. One sitting next to me. He picked me and was not taking no as the answer to his question. He could of gone to PoK to pay for his virtue or ask one of the other clerics in the zone. he had a preconcived notion that cleric has to buff him. After Refusing 40pp which already was over paying. most players would of moved on. he assumed I could be bought just name a price. To you it may not of been an insult to me it was and I reacted as so. I'm not a vending machine. so don't treat me as such.

You missed the point of the post it was about the attitude of one the guild leaders. thinking just because I don't have a IVM SoT EW RiP tag I am just the peasant Scum. As peasant scum I should be beholden to them. "I hope you like your little Guild." the line implles that 1) my guild is not important and 20 I would want to be a member of IvM. I have seen what they take as members some or good some are bad. but none are better them me and my guild.

Let me just make a few quotes fast,

Faervas says:
So you tell me why players like me have little or no respect for players in uber guilds when it's obvious they think they are better then us.

Faervas says:
I have seen what they take as members some or good some are bad. but none are better them me and my guild.

So just to make sure I have this straight. You dislike people because they think the same way you feel? Awesome.

So just to make sure I have this straight. You dislike people because they think the same way you feel? Awesome.

No, you have it completely wrong.

Faervas' comment: I have seen what they take as members some or good some are bad. but none are better them me and my guild.

means that, while we may have achieved different things in the game than ubers, we are not inferior to them nor are we superior....we are equals. Level of accomplishment doesn't confer a greater degree of equality or privlege. What you have accomplished in game doesn't make you better than me. If you haven't achieved the things I have it doesn't make me better than you.

The issue is the attitude some, not all, ubers have with regard to smaller guilds and lower level players. If you want buffs from a cleric, find the ones offering their buffs for donations, don't stick plat in a trade window and say "Virtue plzthx". Thats not a request, thats a demand.

I have no clue what the fuck you just said, or where you tried to go with it.

Thanks for killing this thread. :(

anytime. i live to kill threads

Funny, I understood mukaz just fine.

I guess I'm smarter than you...;)

Thats like saying the guy who makes 10,000$ a year is as successful as someone who makes 100,000$ a year because he says so and he should have all the privileges of the 100k guy. That isn't real.

In EQ being Uber gives you privileges because no one can stop you, just like in RL

The counter argument to that is that not everyone plays for the same reason and this is true however ...

When you speak of success you have to create a standard of success.

The counter to that would be your standard is how much fun you have or how many people you have met. I say this isn't valid because anyone off the street can pick up EQ and have fun in less than a day.

Being Uber requires work and learning. This is a measurable value. Thus it can be applied to a standard.

So by the very definition of "standard of success" it is logically valid to say that Uber people are more successful than you based on Work put in VS rewards and privileges given out.

Your analogy is off Bowler. Let's say the guy making 100k states that he's an inherently better person, from an inherently better family, than the guy who makes 10k simply on basis of income. That's what is being discussed above, not who killed what mobs and got what pixels for doing so.

Thanks Thormir :)

That would have taken me six paragraphs or so to get out in my typical meandering fashion, and I'm buried in paperwork here as is...

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

No one starts the game UBER. My example is not about people who start out rich.

Dont confuse characters with RL people. This thread is about CHARACTERS who are not Uber being angry at CHARACTERS who are for "walking on them" based on their ability to do so. In EQ you are not inherently anything but a race and class with some damn letter.

BTW- what you said brings the point that I was making home. You cant be uber from day one. Therefore it is an accomplishment to become so.

You have no respect for someone because they asked for virtue and you couldn't even take the 2 seconds to explain to them you were medding for a group about to go into their adventure?

Someone asked a service of you. This generates an obligation towards them?

No it doesn't. When you ask someone for something, politeness does not mean they owe you anything back. You do not owe them a response.

The moment you intrude on someone else's reality, you owe them. You sent a tell to someone? From this point onward, work hard to justify the debt you owe them (not a huge one, but it doesn't got the other way.)

The Virtue-begger was in this situation. They send a tell to some random person they didn't know. They now owe that cleric.

Then walk up to the cleric and hail them. They owe them more.

They sent yet another tell. Damn, what a debt.

The other person responds with "no".

Not satisfied, the virtue-less person sends 2 more tells. At which point the cleric, who the attention-begger now owes for multiple intrusions on their time, explains without politeness that they aren't for sale.

Baka.

A telemarketers calls you and is polite, doesn't mean you owe them a long winded explaination of why you really don't want to buy their service. Hanging up, placing the phone on the table and walking away -- all are ethically correct responses.

A random person sends you a tell for a buff, doesn't mean you own them a long winded explaination of why you don't feel like buffing them.

A friend sends you a tell, or calls you on the phone? Something different.

You contact someone else? Different. There you owe them.

I don't know about you, but in game I'm typically chatting with 3 or 4 people, and yes, spending 2 seconds to type, 20 seconds to change thought gears back and forth, and another 30 seconds to reply to the second tell, then another minute dealing with the numnuts guildie who is riding me about being rude to the fucktard who thinks asking for something means he is entitled to it, is a cost I'm not always willing to risk.

And no, I'm not the cleric in question. I'm an enchanter. And similarly, I walk around non role or anon by default -- and sometimes, when you send me a tell, I will not respond to you because I do indeed have more important things to do. And I don't have to spend my time explaining to you why cleaning my fingernails is more important than responding to you. Other times, I'll go help, even if my fingernails are in a horrible state. But the fact I could help does not give you any damn right to demand that I help you. You have no claim over my time just because you can type /t laeyakk I'll give you 40 pp for a brain buff.

I expect the same in return. I do send tells to people who are non-anon, asking to swap buffs, or cash for same. If you choose not to respond, that is not your problem -- if I could, I'd send you a cash donation with the tell, to make up for the fact I'm intruding on your time. All I can do is toss you a brownie point every time I ask you for something, irregardless of you ever resonding.

In EQ being Uber gives you privileges because no one can stop you, just like in RL

In RL, that attitude will lead you to meeting someone who will violetly object to your presumption of privledge.

If you make 100 k$ per year, you get the priviledge of spending 90 k$ more than the 10 k$ per year person. That's it. You are not some special flower because you play the economic game better. You are not a better person. You get 90,000 more points to buy valuable prises with.

It is possible that in making your 90,000$ more you made the world a better place -- and the western economic system is, theoretically and to a certain extent practically, set up that way -- but the higher score in and of itself does not make you better.

Yes, those with money will translate it into power, and they will use the power to claim they are better than their equals. There is a reason that popular revolutions actually do happen.

When you speak of success you have to create a standard of success.

Actually, you could speak of successes, plural.

You could speak about it without a universal standard. No really.

I suceeded at my goal. Others will not have my goal, so measuring them by this standard is idiotic. "I mean, you didn't learn about the concept of utility yet? I did last week, thus you are clearly a loser."

I say this isn't valid because anyone off the street can pick up EQ and have fun in less than a day.

And they just won EQ. No really, they just had fun.

So by the very definition of "standard of success" it is logically valid to say that Uber people are more successful than you based on Work put in VS rewards and privileges given out.

I feel pain for whoever taught you logic.

*sigh*

Saying you dont want Uber people looking down on your character because they have better gear doesnt have ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHO YOU ARE AS A PERSON. Its just a facit of the game. They are UBER and that allows them privileges based on the designed game mechanics. Dont like? Nothing you can do to change it.

EQ was built with being UBER as a goal. You cannot say someone who just picked up the box and had fun for an hour is as successful with reguards to the game itself. Dont switch back and forth in what you are talking about.

Sure you may have success in OTHER AREAS but the game is designed with certain elements that denotate success as spelled out in my previous post.

Powerful people will run over non powerful people.

BTW Lime Mint Tic-Tac's sounded really gross but now that I have eaten a couple I think im going to need a 12 step program to get off of them.

Bowler, you're still chasing after a point that isn't under contention. This isn't about what places ubers get to go that non-ubers cannot. It's not about who killed the Rathe Council versus who killed a Kunark dragon. Those are standards of success, but they aren't part of the discussion.

And it's NOT a facet of the game that well-geared people look down on those who didn't hop their way into the highest echelons of raiding power. That's entirely the province of the person. No one's Time BP says, "Hope you like your guild."

Bowler-

You point hinges on being "Uber" as the standard of success.
For most people, this may hold true. However, everyone has different goals as to what they want out of the game, and none are more valid than another.(for the most part- blatantly breaking the PnP might not be a good goal to have)

you said:
The counter to that would be your standard is how much fun you have or how many people you have met. I say this isn't valid because anyone off the street can pick up EQ and have fun in less than a day.

It really depends on what your goals are in the game:- I'd argue that that is a perfectly reasonable measure of success based on the time involved.

As time goes on, it is reasonable to think that they will gain levels and equipment. However, maybe their goal is to get 250 in every tradeskill instead of kicking Quarm (sp?) in the ass.

To them, one is success (250 in all tradeskills) the other is not success (though it might be a key stepping stone to their eventual success).

I'll grant that MOST people want to advance as far in the game as they can, to experience content and make friends and that being in a top tier guild does lend itself to realizing those goals.

Dont confuse characters with RL people

You can't have characters without the people behind them.

'Becoming uber' is an accomplishment in the minds of the folks who do 'it', whatever that is (Die, mathematical formula! And the pixels rejoiced...). I'm glad that you've met your own standard of success :) ...

You have not, however, addressed the original question posed in this thread by the original complainant, Faervas, Buadyen, Mukaz, and myself, namely:

Does the mere fact of 'being uber' (by your own standard) give one the right to treat others like inherently lesser human beings (characters they may be, but still with human beings driving them)? The characters/persons brought up in these instances apparently did...

Let's carry that 'real world' analogy a bit further, shall we? :)

Let's say that the uber person is an executive at the major employer in town, and lets say that I'm an overeducated, poorly paid, educator (which I happen to be :) ). Does the fact that that person has helped build (or perhaps just works for) a business that happens to be empirically very successful give her the right to demand that I tutor her child for free (shine her shoes, whatever ;) ), or even that she should have the right to assume that my services can be 'bought' (for the right price)?

Let's say I'm overworked and underpaid and ignore her emails, and then refuse her entreaty of cash because frankly, by this point, I'm annoyed by her insistance. There are plenty of other folks in the department who could do what she is asking. What do you think it says about that person if she won't take no for an answer and curses me out, then complains to the management and has a higher up in her company come by and threaten/insult me for daring to refuse her request?

Or let's use another analogy. Let's say that our original group in BoT were bowhunters, intent on their quarry (It's deer season here in South Texas :) ), and because of the tools they use, they have to get very close to the deer, and it takes a while to sneak up on it. A group comes into the field with high powered rifles, sees the bowhunters tiptoing up on their prey, and shoots the deer anyway. When the bowhunters complain, they burn down the other buck in the area, then toss the head to them because 'it was just a spike anyway...'

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

while we may have achieved different things in the game than ubers, we are not inferior to them nor are we superior....we are equals

I was responding to this statment and should have quoted it from the beginning. This statment is made false by the line "in the game".

*sigh*

Saying you dont want Uber people looking down on your character because they have better gear doesnt have ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHO YOU ARE AS A PERSON. Its just a facit of the game. They are UBER and that allows them privileges based on the designed game mechanics. Dont like? Nothing you can do to change it.

Yes, they have privledges. They get to take more damage before their character falls over.

They gain mana faster, they do more damage per swing.

That is the privileges they are entitled to, based on the designed game mechanics.

EQ was built with being UBER as a goal. You cannot say someone who just picked up the box and had fun for an hour is as successful with reguards to the game itself. Dont switch back and forth in what you are talking about.

I can say that. I did say that. Want me to say it again?

Yes, the goal of becoming more powerful was in the game. So was exploring, tradeskills, social interaction, roleplaying, quests, faction. In case you never noticed, EQ was and is a fucking huge simulation. It is actually more than a tactical simulator, or a combat engine.

Sure you may have success in OTHER AREAS but the game is designed with certain elements that denotate success as spelled out in my previous post.

Myopic.

Powerful people will run over non powerful people.

No, people who do evil attempt to run over other people.

Powerful people who do evil tend to succeed at running over other people.

Having 8 k unbuffed hps and max worn ATK does not make your character run over other people's characters -- in case you didn't notice, there is a keyboard and mouse that lets a person decide where a character goes. Ethical failure makes your character run over other people's characters, and the gear lets you get away with it.

You seem to take it as a given that people are ethical numbnuts. Maybe it lets you sleep better at night. But there are many people out there who are capable of self restrait without the spectre of punishment.

Have I ethically fucked up? Yes. Do I view my fuckups as my game-mechanics-given right? No.

You all may view it as normal, taking something from someone just because you are able to. And I'll take your word that that is how the high end game works -- fuck them before they fuck you -- and I'll be sad. But there are players in this little simulation world who hold such actions in contempt.

And they are playing a winning game.

Having 8 k unbuffed hps and max worn ATK does not make your character run over other people's characters -- in case you didn't notice, there is a keyboard and mouse that lets a person decide where a character goes

Doesnt make them run over others but it gives them freedom to in situations where a less equipped character would get their ass kicked. It increases the number of options available.

Does the mere fact of 'being uber' (by your own standard) give one the right to treat others like inherently lesser human beings (characters they may be, but still with human beings driving them)? The characters/persons brought up in these instances apparently did...

So this is what the thread is about? So, does the mere fact of not 'being uber' (by your own standard) give one the right to treat others like inherently lesser human beings by not even responding to a polite request, even if it's with a negative response?

I don't see how you are going to get any sympathy from anyone be being a jackass and expecting people not to step on you in return. Honestly, I'm amazed how Faveras still plays EQ with the attitude he has. I can't believe many people would be wanting to group with him, much less go out of their way to help him out.

Say what you want, but I don't recall a majority of ubers, either guildies or otherwise, having such an attitude.

shorty your such an asshole for not aego'ing me 1 and a half years ago

Nydia,

While your posts have always been quite thought provoking and very deep, I want to throw my perspective onto the table for discussion.

I like the example of 100k a year, compared to 10k a year. It rings very true to the social aspect of "ubers" in EQ.

Someone making 100k a year worked their ass off for it. 60+ hours a week, little to no "social" life.

Equate that to someone like me, or above in EQ. I dont have the luxary of "social" time in EQ. My free time is raiding "working" for my flags, loot, gear, cash. This is what makes me "uber"

Someone making 10k a year is probally working part time at mc donalds, and having TONS of free time to enjoy the social aspects of their life.
Same with people in lower end guilds raiding kunark etc. They arent putting the time and energy that higher tiered guilds are.

My rommates are in Valiant Crusaders, and im in RIP. Huge social dynamic difference. I put in countless hours of time and energy to get where i am, and they arent ready to make that comitment.

Now, im not trying to sound too arragent here, but being uber does infact reap certain benefits that the general population of the game dont get; Access to better exp, quiet zones and great gear.



'Becoming uber' is an accomplishment in the minds of the folks who do 'it',

I remember being a young young cleric in dreadlands, and wanting to become "uber" I remember when Vex Thal was so unobtainable that i destroyed ME lucid shards when my inventory became too cluttered.

This envy of "higher class" people(RL) and players(EQ) exists, and is real. The anger comes from the spite of people with no ambition or determination to become "successful"

Hrmm well.. This turned into quite a scattered rambling of thoughts (typing while trying to talk to mortgage brokers is teh thought train suck)

Pick it apart as you all may feel, ill try to explain in greater detail specifically to people who have questions.



in addition, nothing wrong with being uber or not (in EQ or RL) its just the amount of work and determination you put in. Those who are uber, deserve all they have and get to experience (both in RL and EQ)

Thats like saying the guy who makes 10,000$ a year is as successful as someone who makes 100,000$ a year because he says so and he should have all the privileges of the 100k guy. That isn't real.

Just a bit of advice Bowler. Defining "success" in life based on your income/accumulated wealth is a very very bad standard to use. I consider Mother Teresa a monumental "success" at life yet her income was $0. Clearly (at least to me), a guy making $10,000 can be a thousand times more successful than someone who makes $100,000 a year.

I think that the whole definition of uber is bad. Why are some people better than others just because they have put more time into EQ? EQ is just a game some have better equipment through their efforts and time put in than others. This does not make someone uber. I think the ability to play your class well makes someone uber. Your gear or lack there of does not make you uber.

How so? 10k a year doesnt put much food on the table or allow much personal freedom from the confines of society. Taking into assumption that the 100k person earned what they have then they are MORE successful in life because they have more options and freedom to express those options.

Whoever says money doesnt buy happiness never had any.

There will always be those people who say "Damn you for having what I dont have. I can have just as much as you cause Im a person too. Besides who says your happier than me." I say so.

EQ is just a game some have better equipment through their efforts and time put in than others. This does not make someone uber. I think the ability to play your class well makes someone uber. Your gear or lack there of does not make you uber.


EQ is just a game, but its still a fully functional society existing in a pixel format.

The term uber, translated from German as "super" was introduced to the fantasy world of everquest to classify the biggest and best of EQ.

Your gear DOES make you uber. Level 65 cleric with Focus gear is superior to a 65 cleric without. Because with the focus gear, comes more mana and hp. Making the total preformance of that character "super" or UBER.

Sure, there are exceptions to the rule, but generally, if you are classified as uber, then you know your character pretty damn well.

You can apply the same thing to EQ Furtivus...

There are different ways to succeed in EQ as well. If "uber" is the standard...I am an almost complete failure in the game. But when I measure some of the good friends I have made and the fun I have (usually) playing the game, I consider myself somewhat of a success.

I consider myself a sucess in life because I have a great family and a secure job with a decent income Not because I have an 'uber' car, which I don't btw :'(

Asses are asses whether they have uber gear or not. Whether their beggars who annoy you constantly for freebies and curse you when you refuse or uber addicts who think they can do anything to anyone because they can, doesn't matter. Being "uber" does not give you the special priviledge for being a complete ass....nor does being an EQ downtroden give you any special consideration when also being an ass.

Doesnt make them run over others but it gives them freedom to in situations where a less equipped character would get their ass kicked. It increases the number of options available.

Why yes, it does. You gain more options.

And some of those options are unethical.

The fact that game provides you with those options doesn't all of a sudden make unethical acts ethical.

In a certain famous document, it states all men are created equal. Now, it isn't saying that all men have the same height, are born equally strong, or will end up being just as strong. It isn't talking about that kind of equality.

All EQ players are equal. One player with 8 k hps, another with 4 k hps -- they have different options, but on a very fundamental level, they are equal.

So, does the mere fact of not 'being uber' (by your own standard) give one the right to treat others like inherently lesser human beings by not even responding to a polite request, even if it's with a negative response?

No, if someone contacts you when you are otherwise busy, you have that right as well, even though you are "uber". =)

When a telemarketer calls you at home, you don't have to listen to their spiel, you don't have to apologize for hanging up on them, and you don't have to be polite to them.

When someone wants something from you, and contacts you to get it, they owe you politeness. This does not generate an obligation on your part, this simply reduces their obligation to you.

Say what you want, but I don't recall a majority of ubers, either guildies or otherwise, having such an attitude.

The first cleric to L 65 on the server walked around non-anon 24/7, and responds politely and at length, explaining why they can't help, to every buff request sent their way by random strangers?

I pity them.

When someone wants something from you, and contacts you to get it, they owe you politeness. This does not generate an obligation on your part

A-fucking-men!

The needs of others cannot create an obligation on your part to respond they way THEY want. That is slavery. If they dont like the way you responded they should STOP TALKING TO YOU.

Why yes, it does. You gain more options.

And some of those options are unethical.

The fact that game provides you with those options doesn't all of a sudden make unethical acts ethical

Ethical or unethical is simply a point of view not facts beyond dispute. If you disagree then why do you think religion causes people to kill each other.

I know and respect a lot of people in Ivm, and if they asked me to give them a hand, like they would need my help lol, I would do what ever they wanted.

That said, they do have a bad apple in the bunch. I have first hand experience of Bohbo training my group in BOT MSR after Ymir Stormseer pop'ed. He said his group was trained so he wanted to save them by training us.

I invis and run back up to do the CR, and guess what? Bohbo's group is killing Ymir Stormseer.

That same day Bohbo was getting spammed in /ooc and /shout about training groups about 3 hours earlier also. I have had nothing but good experiences with Ivm, with one exception Bohbo.

bowler is teh uber l33t

bowler is teh uber l33t

Are you a moron? Hi welcome to a discussion. Have a look around. O well, desk work is done Im outta here.

TTFN

lol bowler. Ive already posted some thoughts on the discussion, and i am in total agreement with you, that was just me poking fun at you

shorty your such an asshole for not aego'ing me 1 and a half years ago

Indeed Gokuu, indeed.

"Someone making 10k a year is probally working part time at mc donalds, and having TONS of free time to enjoy the social aspects of their life.
Same with people in lower end guilds raiding kunark etc. They arent putting the time and energy that higher tiered guilds are.

My rommates are in Valiant Crusaders, and im in RIP. Huge social dynamic difference. I put in countless hours of time and energy to get where i am, *and they arent ready* (my emphasis added) to make that comitment."

Dear Zarkarin:

One of the nice things about EQ is that is is a complex enough milieu that, like in 'real life', people can set their own goals and accomplish them (or, if they're completely non-goal-oriented, dye their armor heinous colors and chat all day long :) ). I can appreciate that some people get a lot of satisfaction out of working hard, spending a lot of hours and a lot of personal discipline, in order to accomplish specific goals as a team, and I'd also submit that some people are driven to plow through goals more quickly than others (some of us really get off on smelling the roses along the way and picking some for friends ;) ). None of my posts were meant to belittle folks who choose the 'high speed, large scale, what scenery?' path, and indeed, I can respect both the work and committment that people put into that path, and their accomplishments (I congratulated IvM both on their entry to Time, and on the picture, before this thread statred :) ) - it's just not my path.

My comments were mainly critical of those who *assume* that the 'treadmill of content' choice is by definition the 'best' choice (others *would* take it if they were good enough, disciplined enough, tough enough, had a clue, they were ready, insert justification here :) ), and that others are 'lesser' choices, and more specifically, that folks who made that choice are somehow better (more entitled) *people* for having made that choice. There is a difference in being able to respect someone's accomplishments, even if they aren't the ones you would choose for yourself, and jumping to shine their shoes every time they walk into the room.

I also disagree, to a certain extent, with your MacDonald's analogy. There are folks who spend a lot of time working hard, so to speak, in game, but their goals may be in such things as tradeskills, honing the small scale game, helping out and enjoying the game with friends, or learning everything themselves instead of bypassing content, and so they don't rack up the 'empirical' payoff very quickly.

Once again, to use a real life example, I could be easily making twice to three times what I do now had I remained in industry, and I work longer hours doing it, much of my work unpaid. However, I believe the work I do to be both more relevant to my own personal goals, *and* more valuable in an 'absolute' sense. Does that make me 'less' of a person than if I had stayed in industry and made a better plastic pellet? If you're only measuring economic clout, then I suppose so...

As far as my personal choices in game, until recently, I (and Faervas) spent much more time in game than most of the rest of our guild, and hence levelled up past them for a long while, and this resulted in us getting exposed to a lot of content well before the rest of the guild. We could have 'moved on' to raiding guilds if we so chose, but growing (as people and in experiences, if only occasionally in numbers) our little nonhierarchical guild has been an immensely rewarding experience, has enabled us to learn things ourselves, and we take great pleasure in doing as much as we can within the time/stamina/class/level/number/claustrophobia limitations that we have.

We also are as noninsular as a group called a 'guild' can be I think, and try to include our friends in as many activities as they wish to join us on, recognizing that someone can be your good friend, and still have needs/desires that are best served by another guild. This works both ways, too: our folks are an independent strain, and we not only 'allow', but encourage, folks to initiate their own projects and hang out with other guilds. While accomplishments are exciting, and loot is, of course, nice to have, our primary focus is on the *people* in our guild, and our friends, and so we just keep 'Doing our own thing... together :) '. It's not the way to power or loot, but I think it's an equally valid path... and more to the original point, it is also worthy of respect for what it is: not 'better', not 'worse', only different. You won Everquest? Congrats - we did too! :)

To steal Valarian's signoff style:

With tolerance for herding cats... :)

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

With every post, Nydia makes my scrollbar more and more sub-atomically small..

Master Damoiel Mindbend
Retired Enchanter of the 60th Season

Ethical or unethical is simply a point of view not facts beyond dispute. If you disagree then why do you think religion causes people to kill each other.

Yes, people disagree on what is ethical and what is not.

This has been used as proof that "moral relativism" is the one true path. However, down that path leads the land of mud.

To pull an analogy out of left field, it is true[1]that all computers and all (non-silly) programming languages are equivilent -- anything any one computer or programming language can do, another can do as well. In fact, any thought process any person can do any computer can duplicate. This is known as the "church turing thesis". Another name for it is the turing tarpit -- because while all computers, programming languages and thought processes are equal, this is only true for very pecurliere and pretty damn useless definitions of equality.

So, where is the analogy? Well, I hold the insight of "moral relativism" up to the same standard as the "church turning thesis" -- people become trapped in the "moral tarpit" when they take the observation that different cultures and different people define moral and ethical behaviour differently, and from there conclude they are all equal.

I have ethical standards. Moral relativism or not, these are standards. And when willfully fail to live up to them, you are scum to me. My standards are sufficiently broad and multi-tiered that it isn't quite this sharp, but they do exist. I will even defend the standards I apply to others, because they are not arbitrary beasts. And neither is my choice of programming language for a project.

Feel free to live your life in a moral tarpit, and program in INTERCAL (http://), but that is not my choice.

[1] For varying values of true. The equivilence of programming language is true in a very strong sense of the word, while the equivilence of thought to a turing machine is true in a much weaker sense of the word.

I'd comment, but I got sick of the 'uber-guilders are evil' and 'casual gamers deserve the same content over ratio-equivolent periods of time' arguments on Flameplay three years ago.

After reading the original post, all I could get from it was the Cleric was an ASS. I will use my own standards to judge this.

If I was said cleric (and I have a 65 cleric im often on, so I know this to be true) I would have responded to a polite request with an answer equally as polite explaining why I couldn't buff him.

The fact that you ignored him, Then responded with a rude "nope" comment with no explanation made him angry and he responded in a bad way. I don't think he did the right thing personally, I would have just thought to myself your a dick and not talked to you anymore.

You can easily pick a stance and jump on your pedestal and say, HE requested MY help so im not obligated to be NICE to him in any way shape or form. And sure your right your not obligated to buff him or be nice to him or anything. But just because you don't have to respond or be nice does not mean your not the DICK here. All it means is you feel this polite request was so intrusive to your time, that it merited you being a DICK in return.

It would seem that what guild he was in didn't matter, the one with the EGO issue was YOU.. YOU were the one that decided since your the Cleric holding the uBoR buffs you held the cards. You were the one able to use your position of power *since you had the buff* to misuse that power and simply ignore, then cast away his request as beneath you.

This is why I own my own buff team, I hate making requests to some people for buffs, no matter how nice I am there is always a dumb ass that cant take the 10 seconds to type out to me. Sorry time is an issue and im very LOM due to buffing my group.

Dear Shorty:

I only have one (okay, two ;) ) question to your posts: Can you, honestly, say that you responded to *every* buff request that you ever received? You *never* replied shortly to someone who wouldn't take 'no' for an answer, and then hurled abuse your way? Again, this guy was at a camp in a newbie zone, with other clerics sitting right next to him, and yet this person not only singled Faervas out to harass repeatedly, but 1) complained to a guild officer and 2) the guild officer harassed *Faervas* when Faervas refused to buff him for money or otherwise. As Laeyakk said, this guy was asking for something from *Faervas*, not the other way around, and if anything, owed him.

Not to disparage how y'all do things in your neck of the woods ;) , but if any of our guildies asked an, erm, officer, to intervene on their behalf because they were *begging a buff* off someone who wasn't dealing them at the time and were refused, they'd be laughed off the channel. This isn't a 'oooh, I h8 those IvM elitists' point (Faervas was sitting and had no idea of the guild affiliation of the person asking, not that it would have mattered), it's a 'duh, go ask someone else, you stupid pest!' point...

Faervas didn't 'owe' that person a reply when that person sent him a tell. He didn't 'owe' him any explanation for why he didn't, and he wasn't even rude when he finally said a simple 'no' on the *third* pestering. Tell me, honestly, assuming that the person also asked the FD (or insert other non 'pondscum' guild name here) cleric who was sitting there and was refused or ignored, do you think that a guild officer would have gone to the trouble to insult them 20 minutes later? I suspect not - it is far more likely that the behavior on both the part of the member and the officer towards him was quite different than it would have had he been from a 'big name' guild.

Can you refute this? One incident does not make a pattern, but it would seem from other posts that have been made in this thread that this in particular attitude is not an isolated occurrence.

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

Nydia:

I don't speak for IvM at all, since I quit the game back in July. I do still keep up with them, but don't take anything I say to be an official response from IvM or anything.

Personally, I don't recall not responding at all to someone asking for anything unless I was afk, in which case my afk tag was up. Yes, I may have refused ridiculous requests like a rez half way across Norrath when I'm in the middle of a group or something. I get the feeling the "abuse" he received was probably partly his own fault. Not responding in any way to someone is pretty rude, and can cause some people to get pissed.

As for the IvM officer, they only have a handful of officers and I can't think of any of them that would have responded in the way you described.

to nydia's post:

I did, or at least i would like think i tried to, at sertain times i get alot of tells, and end up missing other tells, especially random, short ones, or when i'm afk, and i have my afk sign up. For the group buffs i don't care if they don't want me in a group, if they want a group buff the only thing i ask for is the components (if any), or if i missed a request and they keep sending me damn tells i'll make note of it to respond with a "sorry busy" or some other BS just to keep them from sending me tells

when someone "singles" out a person for buffing it because they want a buff, its not some strategic singling out, to get the maximum buffage return. To send 3 *harrasing* tells to him for buffing, i believe that is to only get the buff from one person and not 3 other people, maybe he did not see the tell or forgot to answer it in the thick of things, who knows? he never responded. During a raid, i'm not about to ask 3 shmn's for focus at once, get focus 3 times, thats a waste.

faervas didn't owe him anything, but don't expect people to be nice afterwards especially when they are ignored, and then given a straight answer of "nope" and i can't really much stand up for what he did past that, involving the officer then the officer getting him/herself involved, i was not there, i'm only speaking on the "information" present to us by faervas.

another thing is, he made up the details completely from memory, exactly how busy could a person have been to remember how the first part of the conversation went if he gets soooo many requests for buffs? or does he remember each incident of a buff request, or buff requests gone bad, look over where it started, and remember it from there? it almost sounds like he was looking to piss someone off, or had an attitude.

My only additional comment regarding this thread is that Faervas, when this thread came up, didn't remember the details of the conversation with the member that well (other than that he was very persistant, offered money at one point, and started cursing him out), but the incident stuck in his mind because of the tells from the officer, who is someone he knows personally and has helped out in the past, which is why he was particularly shocked (he chose to conceal the name out of courtesy). Faer logs all his conversations anyway, and so when he chose to participate in this thread (unlike me, he isn't a voluminous poster, nor does he feel the need to respond to most things, see above ;) ), went back and read the pertinent dialogue before posting...

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

I was the one that asked to purchase virtue. I thought I was very polite. He wasn't seated, he was standing (all luclin models are on) and there was no mount. So he certainly didn't look afk or medding. Maybe he responded with a simple no, maybe he didn't. As most of you know there is a ton of NPC spam in those camps; I may have missed his no reply. The first message I recall seeing from him was something like "what part of no don't you understand". I told him he didn't need to be rude and HE told me to "fuck off".

I had never met this cleric so I was surprised with his response. I made mention of it in guild chat but never sent an officer a tell complaining about him. I simply told my guild mates what this guy had said in response to my request.

I'm always pleasant to people and treat them with respect until they decide to treat me like shit. I didn't get nasty with him until he started to preach to me about how the "uber" of the server think we can just get anything we want. I think that's about when I told him to fuck off. Not my usual behavior and i'm not proud of it, but it happened. I found him to be very rude and he seemed to have a bug up his ass towards "uber" guilds.

I did end up getting a virtue from another cleric there. Maybe it was spite, but I gave him 500pp. I think that spite was still with me later, as I logged my wife's cleric and a chanter on to AE virtue and VoQ in PoK.

i guess thats cool, but to the rest of us, thats very cut and dry to do, we cannot accept something that happend like and feel the same way you two did about the incident, its just an incident, hes hiding details, to us it looks like him just being ignorant, to you it obviously looks different, IMO we are not argueing that, we are argueing with what is given to us

Personally I think Faervas was totally in the wrong. Hell I played a 60 enchanter when KEI was all the rage and there were times exping in Seb that I went out of my way to actually leave my camp if possible to KEI another group that asked me nicely. Probably not King.. more like NG but thats neither here nor there... Im sure I wasnt totally nice to everyone that asked me for buffs but I like to think if I was there and not in the middle of something else that I never hesitated to provide them. But anyways, thats my opinion. Both Faervas and Nydia can be quite... vocal... so a refusal to type out 20 - 30 characthers in a simple situation is beyond me.

Course, that doesnt change the fact that you became an asshole after the fact Monty, but thats to be expected I suppose.

I think everyone has had good and bad experiences with uber guilds and n00bs and everyone in between, so I dont really get the need to gang up on em. You ubers have everything anyways so take the drubbing with a grain of salt :)

Master Damoiel Mindbend
Retired Enchanter of the 60th Season

Dear Montagor :/

Faervas never preached to you about ubers. And he never told you to 'fuck off'. Instead, you started calling him a 'dickhead' almost immediately. Incoming log... :/

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

This is the log from the time montagor ask for a buff and until I left the zone. I didn't speak with him after this.

Sorry for the length, it un edited.

[Sat Sep 27 23:58:32 2003] Montagor tells you, 'pardon, can i buy a virtue buff?'
[Sat Sep 27 23:58:35 2003] You notify Teecatok that you agree to join the group.
[Sat Sep 27 23:58:36 2003] You have joined the group.
[Sat Sep 27 23:58:36 2003] Kulman tells the group, 'need'
[Sat Sep 27 23:58:36 2003] Hyprion tells goatcyber:3, 'being short was driving me mad'
[Sat Sep 27 23:58:38 2003] Kulman is surrounded by a brief bovine aura.
[Sat Sep 27 23:58:39 2003] Teecatok begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Sep 27 23:58:41 2003] You tell your party, 'let's go'
[Sat Sep 27 23:58:41 2003] Rumblegut tells goatcyber:3, 'hehe'
[Sat Sep 27 23:58:47 2003] Nydia tells the group, 'inc tranq, please click off whatcha got'
[Sat Sep 27 23:58:49 2003] Dayzee tells the guild, 'thanks for the mind candy Nyd :) '
[Sat Sep 27 23:58:52 2003] Nydia begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Sep 27 23:58:55 2003] Nydia tells the guild, ':) '
[Sat Sep 27 23:58:59 2003] Teecatok begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:01 2003] Montagor says, 'Hail, Faervas'
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:04 2003] Crusherr sighs in contentment.
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:04 2003] Tranquility soothes your mind.
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:06 2003] You tell your party, 'how was the game?'
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:12 2003] Zralgon tells the group, 'ass'
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:16 2003] Boww says, 'east commonlands'
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:18 2003] Teecatok tells the group, 'bac'
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:20 2003] Nydia begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:22 2003] Teecatok tells the group, 'bad'
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:25 2003] Saabi says out of character, '36 sham LF LDON grp'
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:26 2003] Nydia tells the group, 'that good eh ;) '
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:27 2003] Teecatok begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:30 2003] Slayemm says out of character, 'train'
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:34 2003] Montagor tells you, '40 pp for virtue?'
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:37 2003] Teecatok tells the group, '41 to 6'
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:39 2003] You told Montagor, 'nope'
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:41 2003] Slayemm yells for help from behind you and to the left
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:42 2003] Nydia tells the group, 'ouch'
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:42 2003] Slayemm yells for help from behind you and to the left
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:42 2003] Morgrum shouts, 'looking for tank 23 to 29'
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:44 2003] Slayemm yells for help from behind you and to the left
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:45 2003] a giant scarab has been slain by Rakknor!
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:45 2003] Grizzlegore says out of character, '61 bst seeks group'
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:49 2003] Montagor tells you, 'how much?'
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:53 2003] Nydia begins to cast a spell.
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:59 2003] Kulman begins to cast a spell.
[Sun Sep 28 00:00:05 2003] Sethers scores a critical hit! (133)
[Sun Sep 28 00:00:07 2003] Thexa says, 'Hail, Rauni'
[Sun Sep 28 00:00:07 2003] Magus Tira begins to cast a spell.
[Sun Sep 28 00:00:12 2003] Nydia tells the group, 'teec, you have the group? get us something :) '
[Sun Sep 28 00:00:12 2003] Rauni says, 'Hail, Thexa'
[Sun Sep 28 00:00:14 2003] Saabi says out of character, '36 sham LF LDON grp'
[Sun Sep 28 00:00:15 2003] Kulman tells the group, 'lemme summon a few fangs and i'll pull '
[Sun Sep 28 00:00:19 2003] Thexa pokes Rauni.
[Sun Sep 28 00:00:22 2003] You told Montagor, 'what part of no you don't understand the N or the O?'
[Sun Sep 28 00:00:24 2003] Nydia tells the group, 'okay. call for pacify'
[Sun Sep 28 00:00:30 2003] Montagor tells you, 'jesus, what a dick head'
[Sun Sep 28 00:00:31 2003] Kulman begins to cast a spell.
[Sun Sep 28 00:00:35 2003] Boww says, 'Hail, Tondal Di`Xevar'
[Sun Sep 28 00:00:35 2003] Tondal Di`Xevar glances at you with violet eyes. 'Welcome! We are investigating and exploring Mistmoore's Catacombs. There are many strange things beneath these lands that threaten all of us. Mayong Mistmoore has left his children and servants to fend for themselves. We continue to learn more about them as the days pass.'
[Sun Sep 28 00:00:46 2003] Montagor tells you, 'fucking noob'
[Sun Sep 28 00:01:00 2003] Nydia tells the group, 'does anyone want night's dark terror btw?'
[Sun Sep 28 00:01:01 2003] Teecatok tells the group, 'gathering mission ok with ya'll?'
[Sun Sep 28 00:01:03 2003] Chuanfa says out of character, 'lvl 36 monk lfg for ldon'
[Sun Sep 28 00:01:08 2003] Kulman begins to cast a spell.
[Sun Sep 28 00:01:09 2003] Saabi says out of character, '36 sham LF LDON grp'
[Sun Sep 28 00:01:18 2003] Thexa says out of character, 'anyone KEIing plz'
[Sun Sep 28 00:01:19 2003] Kromathius says, 'Hail, Tondal Di`Xevar'
[Sun Sep 28 00:01:19 2003] Tondal Di`Xevar glances at you with violet eyes. 'Welcome! We are investigating and exploring Mistmoore's Catacombs. There are many strange things beneath these lands that threaten all of us. Mayong Mistmoore has left his children and servants to fend for themselves. We continue to learn more about them as the days pass.'
[Sun Sep 28 00:01:22 2003] Nydia tells the group, 'might not be so good with 2 clerics even on undead. but whatever you guys want to do'
[Sun Sep 28 00:01:24 2003] You told Montagor, 'been playin 3 years.. you are the 1st person in that time didn't take no for an answer'
[Sun Sep 28 00:01:25 2003] Rumblegut tells goatcyber:3, 'who got Emp?'
[Sun Sep 28 00:01:28 2003] Reznor says out of character, 'seeking kei'
[Sun Sep 28 00:01:32 2003] Nydia tells the group, 'rescue = fastest'
[Sun Sep 28 00:01:37 2003] Hyprion tells goatcyber:3, 'no idea, probably the yakuza'
[Sun Sep 28 00:01:37 2003] Ah, a hero in our midst! We need your skill and expertise to gather 25 Skeletal Remains. Any remains you bring us will be used for a potion we are brewing. You will find it in the tainted halls of Mistmoore Catacombs. Watch your backs. There are foul beings at every turn in there! Keep an eye out for a crypt in Lesser Faydark, that will be your way in.
[Sun Sep 28 00:01:43 2003] Kromathius says, 'Hail, Vual Stoutest'
[Sun Sep 28 00:01:48 2003] Montagor tells you, 'fuck off'
[Sun Sep 28 00:01:50 2003] Kromathius says, 'Hail, Vual Stoutest'
[Sun Sep 28 00:01:51 2003] Kulman begins to cast a spell.
[Sun Sep 28 00:01:56 2003] Sign shouts, '12 cleric lookin for chessboard partner'
[Sun Sep 28 00:02:01 2003] Chuanfa says, 'Hail, Saabi'
[Sun Sep 28 00:02:05 2003] Pufficus says, 'Hail, Vual Stoutest'
[Sun Sep 28 00:02:15 2003] Zralgon tells the group, 'ok. meet at lfay entrance for shaman buffs'
[Sun Sep 28 00:02:19 2003] You tell your party, 'sorry I didn't know what the score was '
[Sun Sep 28 00:02:19 2003] Alar says, 'ty..'
[Sun Sep 28 00:02:21 2003] Montagor says, 'thanks Alar'
[Sun Sep 28 00:02:25 2003] Zralgon tells the group, 'hrm. I can port'
[Sun Sep 28 00:02:26 2003] Nydia tells the group, '28 fetch (gulp)'
[Sun Sep 28 00:02:27 2003] Zralgon tells the group, 'haha'
[Sun Sep 28 00:02:29 2003] Garrath says out of character, '65 Wizard Looking for grp'
[Sun Sep 28 00:02:32 2003] Nydia tells the group, 'lol :) '
[Sun Sep 28 00:02:38 2003] LOADING, PLEASE WAIT...
[

Looks like he was a busy cleric preparing for a adventure, didn't have time to give a detailed "no". Seems reasonable to me.... am I missing something?

Blazemore

lol, all I want to know is WTF is Rumblegut and Hyprion doing in channel "goatcyber". ROFLMAO =)

/hijack off

lets all throw a pity party for Nydia and whatever yer husbands name is.

i don't understand why sony doesn't just make mobs fall over dead for people if they bitch and whine and cry enough. Nydia, you and yer husband would be the uberest of the uber.

prioritize girlfriend. if you want a shot at new silk undies in BoT then you better be prepared to do what it takes. if you are too stupid to figure out how best to do that then don't complain when someone else SHOWS you.

nobody owes you anything. its up to you to make the game into whatever you wanna make it.

for the exact same reasons your husband spouted off about in declining a polite request for a buff from another player is exactly the reason there is nothing wrong with what happened between the two groups.

neither of you owes the other a damn thing. it seems to be much more of an issue to you when its something that adversely effects you. you two play the victim role so well its entertaining to watch. poor lil nydia and her hubby. *sniffles*

i dunno either one of you in game but it seems like monty x has yer husband pegged perfectly.

I agree with KMA

[Sat Sep 27 23:59:39 2003] You told Montagor, 'nope'
[Sun Sep 28 00:00:22 2003] You told Montagor, 'what part of no you don't understand the N or the O?'
[Sun Sep 28 00:01:24 2003] You told Montagor, 'been playin 3 years.. you are the 1st person in that time didn't take no for an answer'

= ~ 30 words (not counting N, O etc.).

" You told Montagor, 'I'm lom and trying to get rdy for an adventure with my group - you should ask someone else for virtue, sorry.' "

= ~ 20 words (not even counting the "sorry" which would add a bit of politeness). Bonus: no "need" to post hundreds of additional words on the NAG board.

Owned. Discussion over.

Faervas stated in the second (I believe) post he made in this thread that, as he put it 'he was no angel' in the above exchange (he was busy, and hence short with the person when they pestered him repeatedly), and posted the log not as a whine about how he was 'mistreated', but because no-one likes being called a liar.

The frowny faces on my post immediately preceding the log were not a whine, but because most decent people (myself included) don't like to make other people out to be liars, either :/.

As far as your other assertions, KMA, try actually reading the thread. We are where we are by our own choice, and quite satisfied, thank you :) , and as has been repeatedly stated, this discussion was never about what it took to be 'uber' in the first place...

But I do agree with you that there is no point in continuing this thread.

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

KMA a I'm not whining. if you look at my post. He said something, that was untrue. I just posted the log to let readers make their own judgement. I also find that most people do not care why I will no buff them. They just want to know if I will buff them.

ok people just let the thread die.

Jesus Christ this game is full of freaking children. Thank god I don't play a cleric on a regular basis.

Nihou!

Ok, I've been watching the Faervas vs. Montragor hijack for abit, while skipping some of the really long posts which after a Guiness night just didn't make any more sense than divining the future by reading scrambled eggs.

Here's what I got....

Faervas is a slow typer.
Montragor asks for a buff.
Faervas is ready to roll out on a adventure.
Montragor doesn't accept the reply of 'Nope' to his buff request, which may have come a tad late, since I get the impression Montragor was already asking "how much" by the time "nope" got off.
Faervas gives no more thought to the situation, and gives out his line of "what part of no you don't understand the N or the O?"
Montragor starts the cursing first.
Montragor probably casually mentions to his guild in /gu about Faervas not buffing him.
Montragor sends Faervas three more tells with derisive comments, which Faervas is not paying attention to.

My take on this is that while Faervas could have been nicer, he wasn't. Montragor threw a little fit about it, probably bitched about it a tad to sympathetic ears, and moved on.
What I don't get is why a officer of Montragor's guild decided to contact Faervas later and take a little time to throw some disrespect at him over what I consider a fairly small thing.



With Tolerance For Arguement Circles...

Valarian

What I don't get is why a officer of Montragor's guild decided to contact Faervas later and take a little time to throw some disrespect at him over what I consider a fairly small thing.

I still haven't seen proof of this. Come on guys, lets really get this nag going.

Immort you talk to much. Just you wait cuz Ima pwnz j00 soon. Be patient and j00 are going to see muh, again.

Montagor asks for a buff, and receives no reply,,


He then Asks again, by saying 40 pp for virtue?


He is then replied to with "nope"


Perhaps 40pp was not enough, So he asks "how much?" Perfectly legit to me, not much info coming from the dumb ass cleric..


The the first slam comes,, What part of no don't you understand N or O... and this slam comes from the Cleric...


At this point I agree completely with Montagor, the cleric is a Dick and this fact should be pointed out to him in no uncertain terms.

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I don't get is why a officer of Montragor's guild decided to contact Faervas later and take a little time to throw some disrespect at him over what I consider a fairly small thing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I still haven't seen proof of this. Come on guys, lets really get this nag going.

Yea, I was kind of waiting for that myself. I was curious who the mystery female IvM cleric with the officer tag was, considering we haven't had one, at least since I joined ;p

If im asked for a buff and i say no, and i keep getting tells asking for them from same person...i would say basically the same thing

ditto baltyn, i would and have done the same thing.

Hell, i remember once in the middle of a dungeon, with anon off, someone sent me a tell asking for virtue.

I hate ignorant people :/

Samanusuke, you wish to take this further? We have discussed this issue with IvM officership and it was determined that the person involved was *member* of your guild, not an officer, who chose to take it on their own initiative to 'represent the guild' and talk to Faervas some 20 minutes after the initial incident. If you have any further questions, I would suggest taking it up with your own leadership, as we have no desire to drag this on any further...

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

One time this guy asked me for a buff and I was all like "Get the fuck out man. Don't you realize who I am? My time standing here jacking off and talking with my friends in group about some innane bullshit is way more important than giving you a real answer. Your guild kills more stuff than mine, therefore you must have no life and don't deserve the time of day from a real man like me who doesn't waste all his time playing a video game. "

Then I got over myself.

Cool. We can add you to the "drops everything to give free buffs whenever asked" list.

All questions directed at him, or responses, removed from the spam

[Sat Sep 27 23:58:32 2003] Montagor tells you, 'pardon, can i buy a virtue buff?'
[Sat Sep 27 23:58:35 2003] You notify Teecatok that you agree to join the group.
[Sat Sep 27 23:58:41 2003] You tell your party, 'let's go'
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:01 2003] Montagor says, 'Hail, Faervas'
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:06 2003] You tell your party, 'how was the game?'
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:12 2003] Zralgon tells the group, 'ass'
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:22 2003] Teecatok tells the group, 'bad'
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:34 2003] Montagor tells you, '40 pp for virtue?'
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:39 2003] You told Montagor, 'nope'
[Sat Sep 27 23:59:49 2003] Montagor tells you, 'how much?'
[Sun Sep 28 00:00:22 2003] You told Montagor, 'what part of no you don't understand the N or the O?'
[Sun Sep 28 00:00:30 2003] Montagor tells you, 'jesus, what a dick head'
[Sun Sep 28 00:00:46 2003] Montagor tells you, 'fucking noob'
[Sun Sep 28 00:01:01 2003] Teecatok tells the group, 'gathering mission ok with ya'll?'
[Sun Sep 28 00:01:24 2003] You told Montagor, 'been playin 3 years.. you are the 1st person in that time didn't take no for an answer'
[Sun Sep 28 00:01:48 2003] Montagor tells you, 'fuck off'
[Sun Sep 28 00:02:19 2003] You tell your party, 'sorry I didn't know what the score was '

At this point I agree completely with Montagor, the cleric is a Dick and this fact should be pointed out to him in no uncertain terms.

If some stranger walks up to me and talks to me 3 times in 60 seconds before I respond to you, I'm already tired of hearing a word from you.

Fuck it, I'd be half way to using ignore.

If you want to ask for something, ask once, and accept no answer as "no". Accept "no" as "no". Expect that if you continue talking after getting a no that you are being rude.

And then expect if you go and lie about what you said in a message board, that you look like a dick.

If I ask you for something out of the blue, with no previous relationship, and I'm not polite to a T, I'm an asshole.

Had Montagor accepted the silence to the first request as a "no" (hint1),
the "nope" as a no,
or the more strongly worded 3rd sign that this person didn't want to buff him "What part of no you don't understand the N or the O?", this would have been over. Instead, someone chose to take offence at their own lack-of-ability-to-accept-no, and start swearing then bitching at their guildmates. . .

Or at least, this is how I'm reading it.

Put it this way. If you had an app for your guild who acted like Montagor did, would you accept him?

You are setting up a raid in PoT. You have never seen this person before in your life.
App: /t guildleader can I join your guild for some flags?
App: Hail, guildleader
App: /t guildleader I'll play 40 hours a week!

all the above in 60 seconds, and he's now standing in your face, while you are trying to organize your raid.

GL: /t app Nope
App: /t guildleader How many hours do I have to play per week?
GL: /t app What part of no don't you understand, the N or the O?
App: /t guildleader jesus, what a dickhead.
App: /t guildleader fucking uber

Who is the dickhead, the guild leader or the app?

Samanusuke, you wish to take this further? We have discussed this issue with IvM officership and it was determined that the person involved was *member* of your guild, not an officer, who chose to take it on their own initiative to 'represent the guild'

Not especially, I just found it hard to believe that one of our officers would be the one to do such a thing, as Shortyrez mentioned earlier, given the level of respect they have earned from me. Saying it's just a common member of ours is a completely different story. That's all.

the app is a dickhead :)

GL shouldve referred him to the recruiting officer so the recruiting officer could tell him to fuck off.

Its their job.. not his. Thats why i dont blame the GL :)

By the way, Faervas and I would like to sincerely apologize to our friends who had the misfortune to have their names/channels shown in the log file posted. It made us very uncomfortable to leave that information in, knowing that it might well embarass our friends, but felt it was important that the log file be posted untouched.

Sincerely,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

Man I'd give anything for it to be 2000 again.

Orun, don't make me cry :*(

Don't worry, I wouldn't buff montagor either. =p

This is what happens when an asshole collides with a douchebag

baybies are born?

I wouldn;t say i would condone the leapfroging, but could said member of IvM left them 1 tower? Probably would have been the nice thing, or dare i say the right thing to do. I guess when an uber person comes here and defends their actions cause they were farming loot so they could rape the same people over in the bazaar that they just leap-froged just is not earning many bonus points. They should have at least let the group wipe trying to get the mini then take it from them. Problem still would have hurt someone's feelings but such is life.

I guess we should make a server wide announcment also . . . If you play Cleric, Druid, or Enchanter you are now required to drop everything to buff anyone at anytime, or give a long explanation as to why you cannot with a suitable apology; If that person is in a guild in the elemental+ zones then you must also not only buff them but perform sexual favors due them for "working" so hard at EQ.

Likewise if you are the buff beger you must fill out the "please buff me" forms in triplicate (on the goldern rod forms only please) and submitt them to the local "buffers union" and wait patiently for a response. The buffer may scold you all he wishes because you chose the wrong class to play if you need buffs in the first place oh unworthy one. On a whim of the caster he may choose to just simply rattle off what a complete waste you are and how dare you even for a minute bother them, because they have so much better things to be doing. Above all the caster must be approached with fear and reverance because they are so important, that norath would cease to exist without their very prescence. This does not hold true if you are the member of an "uber" guild however . . . all buffing classes should still line up for the privalege of buffing you because dang it you work really really really hard.

Think it's too late to submitt that to absor for inclusion in the next patch notes?

I guess we need SoE to invent some "new and improved" play nice policy since we can;t seem to play nice on our own . . .

Better watch it Akie, if people see you with me you may never be allowed in BoT again!

I on the other hand, am willing to take that risk muahaha :)

Oipunx what are the numbers for your armor dye?

/cackle

Immort

Oh Mort I was already banned from that zone before I quit this god damn game. ;)

Akie tells the group : Ok I will harmony em all and pull 1.

Immort tells the group: She meant 10. Wizard have your evac up. Pally get ready to heal me. Warrior can die now.