It is over, votes are counted..

Result is
41.8% Yes
56.2% No

Around 80% of those elligable voted.
Sweden will keep the SEK and not join the EMU.

Personally it went the way i hoped for.

Gratz.

(Btw, we are allready in the EMU and won't leave it. The referendum was only about having the Euro as currency, not about the whole EMU project.)

*cheer* yeah, it went the way most of us wanted, obviously :p

Crap =( *pounce Mungo*

//Izola

And so World War III begins.

The whole Euro project is very good. Same as the whole European Union Project. It will make life in Europe much more comfortable, economy will work better and so on.
But, the Euro is giving many companies a reason to raise the prices. You saw it all over. Additionally you will more and more lower the high standards of the richest countries and raise the one of the poorer ones. This means countries like Sweden may actually suffer a little under it all while Estland will really be able to profit from it.
This is why countries like switzerland are so much against it. And after the development of the countries with the Euro, I understand that sweden is against it.
However, the future of Europe is in the union. We are and always will head towards the union of the whole continent and we will more and more become one country. Its not stoppable and it does notmake sense to do so anyways.
I say so fully aware that my personal "standard" will drop probably once switzerland would seriously be part of the EU.
But with economies, the globalisation of the world, there are no more islands. We more and more have to be aware that everyone needs eachother in the long term and you cant remain an isolated island. The ones that are one will take a huge disadvantage in the mid or longterm.
The times are over where you can ignore the world and just look after yourself and not globalize, work together and agree in international standards.
That's what switzerland didn't get yet.
Neither did the US actually.

THIS JUST IN!

Tiano is for globalisation!

Spell my name right. Can't be that hard to type 5 letters in a correct line.

I just got home from a booze filled day of boating. My bad.

It is spelled Tainosawthousandsofamericanmovies.

Hey Deaath ....

http://tom.madoka.be/stuff/funstuff/images/124048.jpg

Every time someone post a image like that, God kills a kitten. Please, think of the kittens. :(

Anyway, I agree with Taino on this one. Europe's future lies in the Union.

The Euro project will move on without Sweden, and if it works out well (which I think it will), then we will join a few years later. In the meantime, we will lack the benefits of being a part of it, but we won't have to share the risks that the other european nations face. Personally I think this is a selfish and cowardly approach, but that's me. And just because I dislike the opinons of the no-side doesn't mean that I dislike them as individuals or anything like that.

Neither did the US actually.

That line was NOT needed.

Stop bring Euro-US issues in places that they don't need to be.

Oooo, I just got a new image to use. Thanks for posting that!

Drudge Report (http://www.drudgereport.com/flash1.htm)

"There is a lesson here for Tony Blair: continued self-exclusion from the euro will bring a crushing loss of investment and political influence and increased vulnerability to money market turmoil.
"Eventual membership is almost inevitable - sadly the Swedish people will discover that the hardest way to cross a ravine is in two leaps".

You will be assimilated...

I agree it probably would be the best thing for them in the long run, but putting it that way isnt really the way to get the 'masses' to WANT to join.

The times are over where you can ignore the world and just look after yourself and not globalize, work together and agree in international standards.
That's what switzerland didn't get yet.
Neither did the US actually.

Oh, the US got it, alright. Have no fear, we're all for globalization and working together, future citizen Taino. <g>

I personally am disappointed at the no quite frankly, while I agree that all the changes for adapting to the new currency would've been true PITA's I feel that Sweden which is a very small country will suffer from not joining.

Being as small as we are we allready have extremely little to say, and most of all our politicians are as most Swedes "lagom" (means - just about right - basically, there's two languages in the world that has a word for that even.. Swedish and Chinese, that should say alot) and don't really voice their opinions all that loud..

However, the future of Europe is in the union.


1. If this is true (I think it is, and granted you're not from Sweden) wouldn't be be better to be part of the decision making process now instead of later?

2. Any particular reason you needed to fit the little U.S. snub in there at the end?

Dear Izola:

I have a couple of questions for you and the other Swedes :) . The Swedish concept of 'lagom' basically translates to 'modesty' in terms of being circumspect and not too outspoken, specifically in the sense of bragging, yes? Or, to use an analogy, not to go 'tooting one's own horn'? I've also heard the phrase 'lagom clever'. Would you be so kind as to elaborate a bit?

I was also somewhat morbidly curious as to whether the scientific name for the rabbit family (lagomorph) had its origins in this root, as Carl von Linne' (later known as Carolus Linnaeus) was both Swedish, and named this family...

Anyway, sorry to hear that you didn't adopt the euro. I can understand, as a country with a lot to potentially lose by greater integration with the EU, why it didn't go, but I'd imagine that it will come up again eventually. I have a feeling that it's going to be like the elephant in the basement for you folks, that is to say, that like it or hate it you will not be able to ignore it forever...

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
(a fairly clueless American on these matters)
Autonomous Collective

'2. Any particular reason you needed to fit the little U.S. snub in there at the end? '

- It was funny?

Damn EU!!! Destroying British soverignity!! GOD SAVE THE QUEEN! LONG LIVE THE BRITISH EMPIRE!!! HAIL THE STERLING!!!
Or something the right wingers say in this country.

If 56% voted no, the time is not right for Sweden to adopt the Euro. Part of being a sovereign state is making decisions yourself, not having those decisions made for you by other nations. Obviously the EU needs to prove itself a bit further to the people of Sweden before they trust the bureaucrats in Belgium to make their monetary decisions for them. It is an understandable caution given the recent inability of Germany and France to meet the debt targets required by the treaty.

I am sure if things prove to work out and the newer members of the EU are successfully integrated without undue monetary instability, Sweden will take another look at adopting the Euro. If things don't work out, then perhaps Sweden made the wise decision. A couple of more years of experience with the EU should give a good indication one way or the other.

Nydia,

First, I haven't the slightest idea about why he named them like that, he was coocoo me thinks :)

Second, Lagom is a bit more complex than that if I got it right, it's more in the lines of 'just above acceptable/plain' or .. trying to come up with a good example, not doing too good at it though. :p
Even scarier than 'lagom' is when people say 'lite lagom sådär'... lite meaning little and sådär meaning.. like(?).. this gives you about the vaguest description of anything that's possible.

I might be a bit wrong with my interpretation of the word but that's how I use it. I'm sure Izola will be more than happy to correct me ;)

2. Any particular reason you needed to fit the little U.S. snub in there at the end?
Yes, isnt it the Bush government acting against more or less every single thing the UN decides?
Isn't it the US holding a war when the "world" is against it?
Isnt it the US citizens that tell us day by day on this forum that they don't give a shit about the rest of the world?
That is the particular reason why the US snub perfectly belonged there. The US are acting against globalisation like no other country on this planet. But to be honest, switzerland is not far behind you. But we at least give a shit about the rest.

I think what he was asking is wtf does the US have to do with sweden voting no for the EU bit, however to address your hijack, No, No, and it's called sarcasm.

Amount of money (in US Dollars) Spent of Foreign Aid
(2001 - in MILLIONS)

1. United States - 10,884
2. Japan - 9,678
3. Germany - 4,879
4. United Kingdom - 4,659
5. France - 4,293
6. Netherlands- 3,155
7. Spain- 1,748
8. Denmark -1,599
9. Sweden -1,576
10. Canada - 1,572
11. Italy -1,493
12. Norway -1,346
13. Switzerland - 908
14. Belgium -866
15. Australia -852
16. Austria -457
17. Finland -389
18. Ireland -285
19. Portugal -267
20. Greece -194

Source : Here (http://www.oecd.org/home/)

Fuck man, America doesn't give a damn about the rest of the world. We're all warmongering baby killers.

American government only giving 10billion doesn't seem like much. But think about what american private organizations are adding !

-International giving by U.S. foundations totals $1.5 billion per year
-Charitable giving by U.S. businesses now comes to at least $2.8 billion annually
-American NGOs gave over $6.6 billion in grants, goods and volunteers.
-Religious overseas ministries contribute $3.4 billion, including health care, literacy training, relief and development.
-$1.3 billion by U.S. colleges are given in scholarships to foreign students

Bite my weiner, Talid.

Pull that in per capita Talid. Check the population of Sweden (no9 on that list) vs the US =/

Anyways, Sweden didn't adopt the euro. Whoop-dee-doo. Why? Well it's pretty simple, and extremely complex. Since I had a four hour lecture on the topic today I won't bother you with the details but long story short, we probably won't be seeing another referendum on the euro within the next decade or so.

Regarding the idea of "getting in early to make a difference" argument: Lets face it, Sweden is 9 million people, that's a piss in the mississippi compared to the rest of the union, allowing us for little to none democratic power within the EU. Of course we can still lobby and stuff, but the European Central Bank is detached from the political mainframe with a no-interference policy. The ECB is run by directors who aren't under the influence of the EU, and Sweden (or any other country) would have zip, zilch, nada to say about its policies which isn't good for us since we're compared to a lot of the EU extremely way up there smiling down when it comes to welfare and it's easy to get stomped on when you're as small as we are. You just don't realize you just stepped on an ant, or it's immediate family.

So sure, we could "get in early", but we still wouldn't have any say in anything. Now some argue that what little say we'd have would be better than none, whereas some, like me, would rather just go "fuck it, and the horse it rode in on".

As for the word "lagom", it's basically a mind reading subjective phrase (ph33r us). Lagom means "just right". Just the right amount of butter, flatter, bragging. What's just right for one man may not be just right for the other, and so forth. The word is socially tied to the Swede's natural conflict-avoidance nature: if you stay "lagom" (the other dude's "lagom") you never have to argue with him, you'll be invisible. As a society we dodge extremeties and conflicts so extensively we could make it our national sport.

In international politics it basically means that we're sneaky shits (oh I'm sorry, I meant "neutral"). You tend to miss us on the international scene, we're too busy puppeteering, backscratching and kissing ass behind the scenes, but in the end we'll always profit, maybe at your expense. If we piss us off, you might want to invade us, but well tough shit we're not worth the effort, and in the end we'll still be the ones winding up selling you steel for your war efforts. Vikings we may have been, merchants and wordwranglers we are today ^^

Dear Talid:

Post that list with the data (aid) done *per capita* for the countries listed and see what you get. It paints quite a different picture... :)

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

P.S. Why do you guys have to ruin every damned thread on this part of the board by turning it into a 'US vs XXX' pissing contest? This applies to all of you morons. For gosh sakes, this was a thread about *Swedish* politics...

Edit: Kivorn posted as I was hammering out my reply. 'Jinx', and thanks for the clarification on 'lagom'... :)

Oh don't mind me Nydia.
I never should've taken international relations, it's fucking up my mind.

I was a bit confused as to what sent Talid off on that tangent.

Ya know what.. Fuck Per Capita.

If I was a starving kid in Africa.. and a whole bunch of americans gave me 10 bucks.. but some swede came by and gave me a penny.. Id prolly bean the swede in the back head with his damn penny and thank the dudes who gave me a fin-ski..

If 10000 Americans built a bridge, and some Swede came by and toss a plank and some nails down.. big deal.. Per Capita didnt build the fucking bridge.

Jeez L2...
Come ON man. You can do a lot better than that.
Sure you build the fucking bridge, and you can thump your chest all you want, but when it comes down to it not two of you is worth one Swede, and that's what per capita is you know. It measures you, the individual.

See the problem isn't that you're paying, and we're paying, it's that if you're gonna waltz around bragging about it, at least pay up the same ka-ching I am. I don't give a fuck if you're venezuelan, american or a brit: Guy who pays the most cash is the most charitable dude (since to many it's apparently a race), standing behind your flag screaming "well there's more of us!" isn't gonna cut it when it comes to rhetorics. It just creates a monty python-esque scene.

Isnt it the US citizens that tell us day by day on this forum that they don't give a shit about the rest of the world?

Answer your question, Mir?

Nydia, you're right. We don't give as much PER CAPITA as some countries.

The goal of the OECD was that each 'Advanced Developed Nation' would donate .7 percent of the GNP.

Out of that top twenty...you know how many countries met that in 2001?
4.
The .7 GNP is a goal that would make American and Japan combined donate more than the rest of the top 20 (the list actually goes top 25...but I cut it off at 20 for simplicities sake..but my point holds true with 25.) also combined.

'Jeez L2...
Come ON man. You can do a lot better than that.'

- You know.. you'd think he would. But I've begun to realise, he really never can.

WARNING EUROS WILL HIJACK A THREAD ABOUT THE EMU TO TELL YOU HOW MUCH THEY HATE AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

NM i was about 25 posts late on this,,, sorry.

According to Talidd's list, the EU gives (at least) almost three times more aid then the US gives.

If you are to count what Germany, England and France gives rather then what the EU gives, then you ought to count how much California, Kansas and Texas gives rather then what the US gives.

In any case, both the US and the EU countries sucks FAR more money out of the third world then it returns in aid.

After how much euros have beaten it to death they detest being lumped together as "Europe" instead of their individual countries?

It'd be like tying a tofu porkchop around our necks for Halo, Ytrok, Taino...

EU countries sucks


Bad grammer?

Answer your question, Mir?

Chicken and egg.

Bad grammer?It's "grammar", and English isn't Edeina's native language. ;)

Bad quoteing, anyway. :)