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View Full Version : Japan and China, so near and yet so far


Rybit
04-10-2005, 07:31 AM
"Take Japanese goods off every shelf." That's what the China Chain Store & Franchise Association is urging members to do, and now. It wouldn't be such a big deal if the group's members didn't account for 10 percent of retail sales in the world's most energetic economy. Most of the credit for Japan's recovery goes to China's economic boom.

Asian trade and economic growth are now in jeopardy as tensions rise between the region's two biggest economies. The cause: Unresolved history dating back to World War II. For similar reasons, frictions are rising between Japan and South Korea, Asia's No. 3 economy.

The enmity between Japan and China was graphically on display recently when Chinese protesters attacked Japanese retailers including Ito-Yokado Co. and Aeon Co. to show opposition to Japan's bid for a permanent seat on the United Nations Security Council. Japan has asked China to ensure the safety of Japanese nationals and companies.

All this could take an ever-growing toll on Asia's economic and financial outlook. "It has the potential to destabilize East Asia," says Andy Xie, Hong Kong-based chief Asia economist at Morgan Stanley.

Cooperation Needed

It's hardly an exaggeration. This may be the Asian century, yet there's no room for this region to be complacent about competing with far more advanced Western economies. It's imperative that leaders and policy makers here join hands to extend today's rapid growth.

Cooperation has never been more vital. Asians still ship vast amounts of savings that could be used here on roads, schools and stimulating entrepreneurship to the U.S., where it's parked in Treasuries. The arrangement keeps U.S. borrowing costs low, though it's not clear how much Asia gets in return - other than slightly cheaper exports.

Japan, China and Korea should be mulling ways to bring that money back home. They also need to step up efforts to create deeper Asian bond markets, reduce trade barriers and adopt a euro-like single currency. They need to link stock markets and standardize accounting systems. They need to figure out what to do about North Korea's unpredictable regime.

They also should be comparing notes on precarious debt situations in each economy. Japan's national debt is approaching 150 percent of gross domestic product, something that's making investors and rating companies antsy. China's financial system is awash in untold numbers of non-performing loans. Korean consumers are sitting on huge debts accumulated since the 1997 Asian crisis.

Textbook flap

Yet worsening feuds make cooperation and economic progress unlikely.

Case in point: Honda Motor Co., the first Japanese automaker to build vehicles in China, is cutting back Japanese employees' business trips to the country in reaction to rising anti-Japanese sentiment.

The latest Japan-China dustup involves changes that Japan's government plans for history textbooks used in public schools. China says the books paint over atrocities by the Japanese Imperial Army during its occupation of China during World War II.

Sino-Japanese tensions also are being affected by competition for energy resources in the East China Sea and a joint U.S.-Japanese defense statement earlier this year naming Taiwan as a security concern. China regards Taiwan as a renegade province.

While economic integration of Japan and China is inevitable, both nations' governments have rarely been further apart. For lack of other options, Xie says, the Japan-China partnership "will probably stumble along on mutual economic interests and hit a crisis at some point."

A bigger pie

The question is the extent to which any kind of crisis will affect Asia's economy. It's impossible to know, but investors who ignore the risk may regret it.

Increased tensions would fly in the face of economic destiny. Japan and China look skeptically at one another. Japanese worry China will siphon off an ever-growing number of its jobs; China worries Japan is working to slow its economic ascent. Yet both nations are natural economic partners.

As Xie has argued for years, the combination of Japan's wealth and technologies and China's low costs is a win-win situation because it creates a bigger economic pie. And he's absolutely right.

Japan has been moving large portions of its assembly industries to China, leveraging it to boost competitiveness in the U.S. China's industrialization also has benefited Japan's equipment industries. Imports of Chinese goods are lowering living costs for aging Japanese population.

The case for integration will only grow stronger. Morgan Stanley says China now accounts for one-fifth of Japan's total trade compared with 12.4 percent in 1999 and 11 percent in 1994. Within a decade, China could account for a third or more of Japanese trade.

The trouble is, political ties are fraying apace. Why not get the leaders of Japan, China and Korea in a room and have them work things out? This suggestion may sound naive, yet such a summit is inevitable. It seems logical to do it now rather than five or 10 years from now, years during which free trade in the world's most vibrant economic region would probably experience major setbacks.

Japan and China - so close and yet so far.

William Pesek Jr. is a columnist for Bloomberg News.A sad and tragic fact is that not many people have a clear conception of what untold crimes the Japanese committed during World War II. The total number of Chinese and Korean civilian deaths resulting from the War of Japanese Aggression is by conservative estimates close to 25-30 million (this is not including Pearl Harbor) (Wikipedia, 2005). It's the "untold holocaust," and honestly, I'm disheartened with Japan's revisionist attitudes toward its World War II history. I'm 1/8th Japanese, and I don't think the Japanese should take this to the grave. Of course, I don't particularly like the means the Chinese and South Koreans are using to get their attention, but it seems nothing else will do.

Most Americans will agree that the surveys of American history produced for college-prep schools have an apologist attitude towards slavery, the Trail of Tears, Indian massacres, the Open Door policy, Vietnam, and so forth. And most Americans can reasonably tell you about them. But I've studied in Japan's Hiroshima Shudo University for a semester before, and what disapoints me is that most of the students I've met (that is, mostly engineering and business students) have very little idea what happened during the war. The purpose of history is to educate the future from making the same mistakes of the past, but by most accounts, it seems that Japan's Ministry of Education threatens to make their atrocities in World War II (Pearl Harbor, Rape of Nanjing, etc) a footnote in the history textbook (Pesek, 2005). They simply should NOT endorse a textbook that seeks to erase any notion of war or holocaust.

Don't get me wrong: I don't think the Japanese should view their mistakes as shame, but I simply believe that they should include it along with all their other "glorious" history. As limiting of free speech as it may seem (but in the interests of the "common good"), the French and Germans have passed a law that prohibits hate speech and holocaust denial.

And going off-topic for a completely unrelated issue--I think a common currency such as an Asian "Euro" is in paper a good idea and would mend relations among Asian countries, but impossible to implement. There are several legitimate reasons why it simply would not happen, such as China's firm grip on currency, fragile relations among Japan, China/Taiwan, and Korea, etc.

What's your say?

velvetsilence
04-10-2005, 09:13 AM
Aggression is by conservative estimates close to 25-30 million

WOW! did not know that.

The purpose of history is to educate the future from making the same mistakes of the past,
Well put and so truthfull, sadly no one ever seems to understand the concept:(

I know very little about the s.e. asian political/social climate. but i do understand that area is shaping up to be the dominate power structure of the future.
China seem's well aware of it's growing power and is not shy about flexing it's new found muscle(sp).

Haloface
04-11-2005, 04:56 AM
It's a subject I've kept a close eye on for the past year now.
I always liked the saying "Europe is the past, America the present, and Asia the future."
It's so true, and that is where power - economically and militarily - will lie in the not so far future. It's also rather scary, new powers tend to flex their muscles on the international scene. China already appears to be tying up its ethnic and historical ends (Tibet, Taiwan, etc), and a billion imperial Chinese isn't something that makes me sleep happy at night. That's why I've always taken a Gaulle-Chirac-ish stance on a Bipolar world, you need more than one power to counter-balance the domination of another, ideologically, economically, and again, militarily.
The Taiwan situation is a clear, blatant example of a potential massive conflict in the time to come, and the Sino-Japanease history is a thorn in the side of a rather unstable and vengeful area of the world. Let's face it, the North Korean and Chinese governments have never been very rational.

'The purpose of history is to educate the future from making the same mistakes of the past'

- The biggest lesson from history is that we never learn the lessons, indeed.

Rybit
04-11-2005, 07:57 AM
Exactly, Halo, though the term I've heard being coined is "Fear of a Yellow Planet."

Anyway, I'm just surprised the United States hasn't criticized Japan for downplaying World War II in its newest textbooks.

ainwein
04-11-2005, 12:25 PM
Comfort women 4 teh win?

Japanese people always want to cry about Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, etc.

Entire Chinese villages along the coast were left womenless. Brutal torture of captured soldiers was the norm. Doesn't invoke much pity in me. Oh, and all this because they needed to expand their empire for natural resources. loelz.

Keep your imperialistic bullshit in check, or you might get burned!

Kelraz Bladesinger
04-11-2005, 01:17 PM
There's nine hundred million of them in the world today.
You'd better learn to like them; that's what I say.

Rybit
04-12-2005, 11:33 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/223038.stm

Japanese papers reported competitions among junior officers to kill the most Chinese. [...] One Japanese newspaper correspondent saw lines of Chinese being taken for execution on the banks of the Yangtze River, where he saw piles of burned corpses. Photographs from the time, now part of an exhibition in the city, show Japanese soldiers standing, smiling, among heaps of dead bodies.

Tillman Durdin of the New York Times reported the early stages of the massacre before being forced to leave. [...] He later wrote: "I was 29 and it was my first big story for the New York Times. So I drove down to the waterfront in my car. And to get to the gate I had to just climb over masses of bodies accumulated there."

"The car just had to drive over these dead bodies. And the scene on the river front, as I waited for the launch... was of a group of smoking, chattering Japanese officers overseeing the massacring of a battalion of Chinese captured troops."

"They were marching about in groups of about 15, machine-gunning them."

As he departed, he saw 200 men being executed in 10 minutes to the apparent enjoyment of Japanese military spectators. [...] He concluded that the rape of Nanjing was "one of the great atrocities of modern times".

A Christian missionary, John Magee, described Japanese soldiers as killing not only "every prisoner they could find but also a vast number of ordinary citizens of all ages". "Many of them were shot down like the hunting of rabbits in the streets," he said.
Another who tried to help was an American woman, Minnie Vautrin, who kept a diary which has been likened to that of Anne Frank.

Her entry for 16 December reads: "There probably is no crime that has not been committed in this city today. Thirty girls were taken from the language school [where she worked] last night, and today I have heard scores of heartbreaking stories of girls who were taken from their homes last night - one of the girls was but 12 years old."Azuma Shiro recalled one episode: "There were about 37 old men, old women and children. We captured them and gathered them in a square."

"There was a woman holding a child on her right arm... and another one on her left."

"We stabbed and killed them, all three - like potatoes in a skewer. I thought then, it's been only one month since I left home... and 30 days later I was killing people without remorse."

Mr Shiro suffered for his confession: "When there was a war exhibition in Kyoto, I testified. The first person who criticized me was a lady in Tokyo. She said I was damaging those who died in the war."

"She called me incessantly for three or four days. More and more letters came and the attack became so severe... that the police had to provide me with protection."

Such testimony, however, has been discounted at the highest levels in Japan.

Former Justice Minister Shigeto Nagano denied that the massacre had occurred, claiming it was a Chinese fabrication.

Professor Ienaga Saburo spent many years fighting the Japanese government in the courts with only limited success for not allowing true accounts of Japanese war atrocities to be given in school textbooks.

Haloface
04-13-2005, 06:27 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4439171.stm

- Hot. Fire. Frying. Pan. Argh.

Fandros
04-13-2005, 07:23 AM
An area of the world that makes most tacticians, be it military, economical or sociological, cringe.

The pressures they face to form anything remotely like the EU is highly compounded by racial tensions. Japanese hate Koreans and vice versa, China hates Japan and vice versa etc etc. We're talking thousands of years of organized hatred...

Fandros

Rybit
04-14-2005, 06:05 AM
Heh, I have to like both - gah - because (a) I'm Chinese (parents from Taiwan, but consider themselves "Waisheng Ren 外省人 ;)" or "people from other provinces," and (b) my mom's side dad/grandpa is a Japanese who met my grandma in Hong Kong. So, growing up, I was a "diverse" Asian. Heh, Asians all look the same anyway =P - anyway, I went to school in Taiwan for a few years ...

I kinda think it's similar to the English/French thing. England, France, Normandy ... ring any bells? And England being an island--think Japan ... There's also two popular myths on the origins of Japanese society. Some say that they left China in search of a "magic" mountain that produced medicine to stop aging for the first emporer, 秦始皇, sought; others say that they left during the Tang dynasty to form their own power ...

Bylimet Spiritwalker
04-14-2005, 07:00 AM
Well, without China we would not have all the counterfeited brand name merchandise available; and,

without Korea we would not have those cute little cars and the endless humor the leader in the north provides; but,




without Japan we would never have had Godzilla and Mothra and company:p

Haloface
04-14-2005, 10:03 AM
Wise points, wise points indeed.

It's a toughie.

Fandros
04-14-2005, 11:36 AM
Well I must admit ignorance, I've really no idea of the roots of Asian culture/race.

Japan is an offshoot of China eh, so how do they let it float alone and yet threaten thier other lil "colonies"?

Fandros

Talid
04-14-2005, 04:47 PM
Well I must admit ignorance, I've really no idea of the roots of Asian culture/race.

Japan is an offshoot of China eh, so how do they let it float alone and yet threaten thier other lil "colonies"?

Fandros
Probably because it's all in the past. There is actual scientific evidence to back it up but it happened so long ago that the fact that China and Japan were once one doesn't matter because their heritage and history are so different.

Rybit
04-14-2005, 04:59 PM
There are a lot of things in common between the two races--and it's not just skin and slanted eyes. Go to one of their historical landmarks and try going to a landmark in China. You won't be able to tell the difference. And it's not hard for a Chinese person to learn Japanese either; the Kanji/Hanzi characters are mostly the same, with slight variations due to simplification or uses.

Talid
04-14-2005, 06:00 PM
There are a lot of things in common between the two races--and it's not just skin and slanted eyes. Go to one of their historical landmarks and try going to a landmark in China. You won't be able to tell the difference. And it's not hard for a Chinese person to learn Japanese either; the Kanji/Hanzi characters are mostly the same, with slight variations due to simplification or uses.
But if you were to list the similarities and differences between the two populations the differences would far outnumber the similarities.

I don't really have any intensive knowledge about the two cultures but I do know if you want to offend a Japanese person you'd call him Chinese and vice versa

Rybit
04-14-2005, 06:05 PM
Hehe, I'm in the middle then. I'm both Chinese and Japanese, and that makes things interesting since I can see more than one perspective...

Haloface
04-18-2005, 01:31 PM
Well there are more differences between Apes and Man than there are similarities, but...