In other election news, 3 different states are going to be voting on marijuana issues.

The USA Today Article (http://www.freedomtoexhale.com/measures.htm)

I personally think, that if you go by the logic of our society(beer and tobacco both being legal), marijuana legalization is no longer a health issue, it is just a political one.

What are your thoughts?

I don't think you're reducing marijuana consumption very much by it being illegal. Legalize it, and at least it will be government regulated (for instance, you won't accidentally get some MJ that's laced with cocaine).

It always was a political issue. It still has the stigma of the 60's counter culture about it though which reeks of anti-government. If the government really wanted to make marijuana an undesirable drug, all they would have to do is grant its approval. Instantly it will go into the uncool column and lose mystique in the eyes of rebelious youth.

You would think the Washington goon squad would be salivating at the prospect of more sin tax revenue and marijuana is such an innocent drug. Unfortunately the government has not figured out a way to tax and regulate a drug that is MUCH easier to cultivate and produce at home than booze or tobacco.

It always was a political issue.

You're right, I worded that incorrectly.

if weed doesnt affect you, then why do most hte pro-pot people sound like total morons?

I really think "law makers" think if the legalize pot then whats next. Same arguments can be used for pot as other things.

Also, I can see the validity of the well beer is legal and getting drunk effects your brain blah blah, but tobacco though i hate smoking, doesnt alter your mind in same magnitude that Alcohol and many other illigal drugs do.

And if you goverment regulate it, you still will have the same people selling the shit outside the law cause they can promise higher quantities, quality, and what not that the regulated stuff can't. Kinda like Beer can only have certain alcohol content, or in Florida for example its illegal to sell "40's" can only buy 32oz. bottles. So legalizing it just saves paper work and prison/jail space. Won't solve any other problems.

all they would have to do is grant its approval. Instantly it will go into the uncool column and lose mystique in the eyes of rebelious youth.



Ya cause teens don't drink or smoke cause it's legal...and in their eyes uncool..right??

Nice logic.

Rigin

Everything and anything to get pot legalized.

If the smoking/alcohol industry wasn't so in place, they'd probably outlaw those too.

Drinking and smoking certainly loses its "cool" factor when you reach the age that you can legally buy it. After that, it just becomes another bad habit. Weed tends to endure on as being a socially irresponsible habit in the eyes of the powers that be, thus it retains a certain alure about it. In the United States you can have a beer in most places that serve it from a tap, but you certainly can't fire up a doob in public without the risk of having some cop harrass you. You can only imagine the reactions and the horror of those around you if you attempted to sit down at a table in the local Olive Garden and spark one up. Its just a cigarette with some different filler, but you might as well have cleared off all the silverware and dishes and proceeded to rape a nun on your table.

People like to see what they can get away with. Running stop signs, speeding, cheating on taxes, cheating on spouses, its all there under the excitement and thrill of performing an action that has risk envolved. Legalizing it would reduce some of that thrill, because eventually it would also become yet another bad habit to shell out money for. Most of that money shelled out would be taxes. If anything, MJ is one of the few things where the money spent reflects 100% of the value.

No one said pot didn't effect you Grey. And if you think all Pro-pot people sound like morons, you probably never wanted to listen to one in the first place.

I'm not one of those people that do things just to 'stick it to the man'. Hell, I never did any type of serious drinking before I was 21, and tried pot only a little bit before that. There are plenty of responsible adults that like to enjoy pot, in the same way as many that enjoy beer.

I'll get more linkage tomorrow, too late to do it now. :-/

And just to nitpick, I bought a "40" about a month ago. *points to location*

One has to wonder what would happen if all the bad habits and addictions get bred out of humanity. One day we all wake up and discover that there really is no need for coffee, cigs, booze, drugs and so on. Our brains are now free to enjoy natural chemistry without artificial stimulation. What then? Could it ever happen? Will governments and industry keep us all hooked (enslaved) just to be money generators or do these organizations honestly want us to kick these habits?

As our resident Libertarian Party member, let me say, first, that we should decriminalize marijuana. It's a no-brainer.

The argument goes something like this. Slippery slope. If pot becomes legal, then, why not heroin and horse tranquilizer. Hard line libertarians will say, OF COURSE! Make them legal too. What adults (not children, ADULTS) do in the privacy of their homes, consentually, isn't anyone's business but their own. On the surface, great, good idea.

The counter is that *some* moral baseline is necessary for laws. We don't kill strangers because we all know it's wrong. It's wrong because, at some level, MORALLY it's wrong. Some minimum of morality is in all of our laws, and those societies that eventually removed all morality from their laws (Rome, for one) fell to (among other things) that lack of morality.

So, at some point, you have to say, if we make this legal, greater harm will come. If we make crack legal, only for adults, only in their homes, only in homes with no children in them, that *still* those adults might put the rest of in jeopardy because of their adictions.

Anyway, even the LP'ers like me agree that *some* things that happen in our homes have consequences outside of them.

Decriminalize dope, but draw the line... ...somewhere.

I'm for a small government, but not so small that it fits in my bedroom :)

Living in one of the states that hasa marijuana legalization issue on the ballot, I have to say, I'm voting against it. Not because I have anything wrong with responsible adults using it in the privacy of their own homes, but because if people think that just legalizing it will somehow make it so easy to tax and regulate all the problems will disappear overnight, they're sadly mistaken.

Once it's legal to grow it yourslef, how is the government supposed to collect taxes on everybody who has their own plant, or everyone who just sells a little? What about the guys who still lace it with shit? Are we now going to have to make another government agency to go around and check the quality? (Wouldn't be a bad job...)

Oh, and it will only be legal for adults, cause you know that really stops kids from drinking alcohol, and using tobacco. If anything it will become easier, yeah some might not start because it's not cool any more, but how many will start now because it's a million times easier?

I'm voting no, not just because I think any severely mind altering drugs are bad, but because really, I think it is going to cause far more problems in the long run than it will ever fix, and the tax revenue, will not be enough to be worth it.

What stops all that from happening now, though?

nothing stops it, but its not going to end if it is legalized either

Like any crime, you cant stop it comepletely, but why give up and create more problems?

A perfect example of the hypocracy of christians. Christians are so hard up about anti abortion because they say its wrong by the bible. Well, smoking and drinking are wrong by the bible too. Why don't they get all up in arms to illegalize alchohol and cigarettes? Because christians drink and smoke. It is a good example of separation of church and state. Those things are legal, and if christians choose not to do them, then so be it. Abortion should be the same way. Religious groups should not be attempting or allowed to change laws that apply to everyone based on their own secular beliefs.

On another note, the tobacco companies are in a decline. If you could convince the tobacco lobby to get behind marijuana as a potential cash crop replacement for tobacco, I think if would get somewhere. People can grow and brew their own tobacco and alchohol, but when an industrial complex cranks it out with much better quality and quantity, people will automatically buy rather than make their own. If there was packs of pot cigs at the liquor store I would buy them rather than grow for certain.

I once heard a comment from a cop. He said you don't see people beating their wife and kids when they are high on pot. Marijuana by nature would be great for legalization. It calms people down, and we all definately need to calm the fuck down!

Phelonius

Woah Woah WOAH!!

Why are Christians, Jesus and God being dragged into this? If anything drinking and smoking were just a background in the Bible, just like eating and taking a shit. There is no relevance with having religion getting dragged kicking and screaming into this. People forget that the big crackdown on drugs and so on is a product of the second half of the 20th century. Marijuana wasn't invented by the Hippies and Beatniks just to piss off the establishment. Its been around a long time since its a PLANT.

Its the changing nature of society that has raised all these issues. Back before suburban spawl and people needing to drive 5 miles one way just to go to their favorite bar, you never heard about all the DWIs and the resulting outcry. People walked. They went to the corner pub, got plowed and stumbled a few blocks home. Sometimes the cops might even follow you home to make sure you got there safe. Now there is just too many people to possibly offend, having to travel too great a distance at too great a speed. Everything is public and scrutinized. Also thank science for discovering that all these vices are truely bad for us. It wasn't religion that made this all taboo. It was everything outside of religion.

Oh and Palimax....

As our resident Libertarian Party member sorry to rain on your parade, but I am also a Libertarian.

first off there's a differance between "legalization" and "decriminalization".

and decriminalization is the better route, check out what they've done in British Columbia. The largest benifit to society will come not from any tariff's or taxes that can be levied. but it come's from removing a pretty large amount of fairly harmless people from the justice system.
imagine if we actually had room in our jails for crack dealer's and car thieves! novel concept huh?
it also might have the benifit of reviving agriculture is some area's that have seen thier farm's go south due to all the free trade agreement's that are now in place. and eventually you'll start to see the unusable portion's of hemp gain a foothold in other area's such as textile's.

It's pretty easy to say that grouping marijuana with other "hard" drugs such as heroice, cocaine, and etc wouldn't happen in my opinion. There is no physical dependency to marijuana, in this aspect nicotine is many many times worse. The only kind of dependency you can develop towards marijuana is no more than you can develop towards a favorite food.

Marijuana also has been shown to have certain healing properties that help some people live life, and make it 20 times easier. The same does not go for other drugs.

If pot were to be legalized or decriminalized, people would not be pushing to get every other drug legalized. Most marijuana users don't move on to other drugs, and most of the ones that do, do it incredibly rarely in my experiences.

I agree with velvetsilence in that filling jails with people busted with pot is pretty ridiculous and a waste of space and tax dollars. Third offense with any amount of pot becomes a felony at least in my state, and chances are on a third offense you are going to see some kind of jail time. If you've been busted with 0.1 gram each time, you are seeing jailtime for what high school kids smoke on a friday night.

Also, I'm surprised the government really doesn't want to capitalize on the whole fact. All they would need to do is follow suit of Vancouver and sell it in little regulated shops, where they could control THC concentration, price, and tax the fuck out of it. It would still be affordable by most people that smoke, as the price of it being illegal drives it up a lot. They could basically be charging the same price, give people a source to buy it whenever they want, and issue tickets to people for driving while high, and possessing over a certain amount. It honestly could be such a large amount of extra money for the government to burn away on anything.

But it still has a social stigma that'd never allow that. Blame yourselves (or your hippy parents) from the 60's for that.

Back before suburban spawl and people needing to drive 5 miles one way just to go to their favorite bar, you never heard about all the DWIs and the resulting outcry. People walked. They went to the corner pub, got plowed and stumbled a few blocks home.
No kiddin. That's why I'm moving back into the city.

As far as the jail system being filled with innocent victims of the drug war, there might be a few, but I call bullshit overall. From the time I spent in Fulton County Jail, I can tell you that assessment is false. Most of the guys in there for drug charges were bragging about how much they sold and how much they got away with before finally getting caught.

The people that come up with those arguments are the same ones that brought you crazy conspiracy theories such as this one (http://www.usmjparty.com/article_3.htm). Then, people who just want to see the stuff legalized get fooled into perpetuating the nutso theories, because they want something convincing to back their case.

sorry to rain on your parade, but I am also a Libertarian.
Libertarian #3 (or #2, not sure if I joined before you, Lumm), reporting for duty :p

Our basis for morality is the principle of noncoercion. If an action is detrimental no one but the party or parties involved, there is mutual consent between the parties, and the party or parties have the capacity to consent to the action (i.e. they are adults), the action should not be regulated by the government.

Thus our stance is that since the private consumption of weed (or just about any other drug) by an adult does not harm anyone except the user, there is no reason for a ban.

Thus our stance is that since the private consumption of weed (or just about any other drug) by an adult does not harm anyone except the user, there is no reason for a ban.

While it isn't a direct effect of the action of smoking weed, the actions of the user after the smoking and while under the influence are why I believe weed should not be legalized. If you don't believe that marijuana use hinders your judgement...then you've never seen a video of yourself while high.

And violent crimes are never commited by people who smoke pot, nope not ever...

http://www.ktuu.com/CMS/anmviewer.asp?a=7287

http://www.ktuu.com/CMS/anmviewer.asp?a=7316

http://www.adn.com/alaska/story/5701573p-5634856c.html

Hell, the kid says he was too high to even remember if he brutally murdered his mother or not.

Wow. Let's legalize pot as an EXCUSE DRUG

'I didn't know I raped that 14 year old, I was way too high, sorry'

If you don't believe that marijuana use hinders your judgement...then you've never seen a video of yourself while high.
And by this logic, then alcohol should be criminalized also, yes?

The question here is not whether or not pot makes you stoned (it does, that's why people smoke it, medical marijuana use belonging to a completely different category), but whether simple possession and recreational use of small amounts of marijuana is such a threat to the fabric of society that it's worth the huge stacks of law enforcement and tax dollars that are required to criminalize and lock people up for it. There are people serving double digit year sentences for simple possession (less than an ounce) of MJ in several states, including a fellow serving a mind-boggling 96 year sentence in Oklahoma, and instead of this fellow holding down his job and paying taxes, he's going to be clogging up the system and costing *us* 30+k a year for the rest of his life, not to mention what an incredible waste of a basically harmless human being's life this is...

The fact remains that marijuana use, like alcohol use, is something that many people are able to do casually without becoming addicted or being spurred on to either harder drugs or violent acts; and that there are a few people for whom either marijuana or alcohol is a dangerous, addictive drug (a significantly larger percent for alcohol btw).

I personally support decriminalization and eventual licensing/taxation. I neither drink nor smoke herb personally, but if I as a tax-paying adult should choose to unwind with a doobie instead of a glass of wine after work, is that really something that law enforcement needs to be spending its time and dollars worrying about? (Driving under the influence is, of course, something else entirely, and should be treated as an alcohol DUI). Decriminalization of *simple* possession (small amounts, I'm not talking about dealers here) would not only free up resources that could be better spent elsewhere, but would pave the way for better and more open education/outreach to prevent abuse, particularly abuse by minors.

On the road until Tuesday, have a good weekend, y'all...

Regards,
Nydia

The largest problem with the whole legalizing pot is; that while a state might decriminalize it, it's still against federal law to possess/use marijuana. So now, it's going to end up taxing more of the federal law enforcement, which means instead of investigating more serious issues, the Feds now have to a) ignore it (most likely) or b) put more man power into it (not likely) but either way, until it is decriminalized nation wide not much point in states doing it.

Also, it is by leaps and bounds easier to grow and harvest your own marijuana than it is to grow either your own tobacco, or make your own liquor (not by much I know with the alcohol) It's just a mess waiting to happen, and I'd rather 'waste' my taxes putting people in jail for smoking pot, than cleaning up the mess from people breaking the rules after it was legalized (minors, DUI, violent and passive crimes)

And by this logic, then alcohol should be criminalized also, yes

Yep. I don't drink and neither should you.

I wouldn't legalize the use, ever. You can drink and not get drunk, but you sure as fuck can't smoke weed and not get high. Some people drink just one beer with a meal. Their judgement isn't impaired in the least.

There are a lot of reasons why this is a bad idea.

If it does become legal, then what are drug dealers going to push onto kids if their pot market is dry? The more hardcore out of control drugs. X, Heroin, Shrooms, etc. Sure, anyone who wants to get them bad enough I'm sure can find them, but legalizing pot will make it even easier for people to get access to the hardcore ones.

If legalized - how do you go about it? Spending millions of dollars to set up companies to handle all the weed/drug traffic? I'm sure the columbians are going to be more than willing to just ship their drugs directly to the US Government... Who ends up paying for that? Oh, right, tax payers. And taxation to pay for this will not work because there will still be people selling it on the street tax-free and probably cheaper than the government / companies will be.

Weed affects your brain. Our country is full of complete fucking morons. We don't need any more of them.

Also, if legalized, it would be banned from most areas that the only place you could legally use it would be at your home. Wow guys I'm going to stay at home tonight and get high! Woo Hoo! You won't be able to go out and smoke weed casually at a bar with your friends, and here's why.

And please think of this for a second, if you read nothing else about this. We know second hand smoke can affect you in the long term. What about second hand smoke from weed? It does also. There are a lot of smoking bans right now in the US, and if pot were to be legalized, they would be extended to include almost any public place in the US.

A pregnant woman walks into an establishment - this could be any place from a restaurant, bar, or even a recreational area at a swimming pool. She sits down to hang out with some of her friends. Other people show up and start lighting up doobies and the second hand smoke starts to come her way. She can move somewhere else, but why should she have to? It's a public place. <Insert the remaining arguements for public smoking bans here>

So her pregnancy comes to an end and, as a result of wanting to hang out with friends in that public place, her child is now born with mental and physical disabilities because of second hand smoke from marijuana. (This is a long shot, but I guarantee if pot becomes legal, the companies in charge of the marijuana would be having lawsuits to no end over things like this)

The largest problem with the whole legalizing pot is; that while a state might decriminalize it, it's still against federal law to possess/use marijuana.

Which is why the main goal is to get it decriminalized at a federal level. These 3 items are just small steps.

I just got home from work, I'll get to work on finding the linkage and info I've been meaning to that should help clear some things up. And I'm glad to see this became a mostly intelligent discussion. :)

I don't smoke pot and I get drunk about twice a year. What confuses me is people's inconsistency. It's ok to make a criminal out of person who smokes pot to relax and medicate themselves as a mean to escape yet drunks are acceptable. I've met a hell of a lot more violent drunks than I have violent potheads. I can't understand why alcohol is so much more accepted than weed. Alcohol is more addictive and more destructive to both individuals and society in general than marijuana yet we let bud and miller and coors advertise all over the place promoting the product, and continue to bog down the judicial system with petty victimless cases of marijuana possesion.

I could give a shit if pot's legal or not but it pisses me off that people who are pot nazi's are usually pro alcohol. I hate hypocrites.

I understand and agree with yer hypothetical situation and the conclusions you draw from it Krakur. I don't think it's any better of an arguement to keep the system the way it is though. A pregnant mother has just as much of a chance to be drilled by a drunk driver these days. It's hypocritical to say we should have one system for this mind altering substance and another one for this different mind altering substance.

I wouldn't legalize the use, ever. You can drink and not get drunk, but you sure as fuck can't smoke weed and not get high. Some people drink just one beer with a meal. Their judgement isn't impaired in the least.

There are a lot of reasons why this is a bad idea.

If it does become legal, then what are drug dealers going to push onto kids if their pot market is dry? The more hardcore out of control drugs. X, Heroin, Shrooms, etc. Sure, anyone who wants to get them bad enough I'm sure can find them, but legalizing pot will make it even easier for people to get access to the hardcore ones.

If legalized - how do you go about it? Spending millions of dollars to set up companies to handle all the weed/drug traffic? I'm sure the columbians are going to be more than willing to just ship their drugs directly to the US Government... Who ends up paying for that? Oh, right, tax payers. And taxation to pay for this will not work because there will still be people selling it on the street tax-free and probably cheaper than the government / companies will be.

Weed affects your brain. Our country is full of complete fucking morons. We don't need any more of them.I wouldn't legalize the use, ever. You can smoke and not get stoned, but you sure as fuck can't drink beer and not get drunk. Some people smoke just one hit with a meal. Their judgement isn't impared in the least.

There are lot of reason this is a bad idea.

If it does become legal, then what are bar owners going to push onto adults if their beer market is dry? The more hardcore out of control alcohols. Rum, vodka, schnaps, etc. Sure, anyone who wants to get them badly enough I'm sure can find them, but legalizing beer will make it even easier for people to get access to the hardcore ones.

If legalized - how do you go about it? Spending millions of dollars to set up a companies to handle all the beer/alcohol traffic? I'm sure the Canadians are going to be more than willing to just ship their beer directly to US companies. Who ends up paying for that? Oh, right, consumers. And taxation to pay for this will not work becuase there will still be people brewing it in their own homes, tax-free, and probably cheaper than the government/companies will be.

Beer affects your brain. Our country is full of complete fucking morons. We don't need any more of them.


...well, at least one fucking moron...

What would be the point of smoking pot, but not enough to get you high?

Alcohol in moderation (i.e. one drink with dinner or a day) has been shown to be beneficial to your health. However to my knowledge, smoking a joint a day, doesn't. The only real exception is for medicinal use, which I think is a crock of shit anyways, but aparently it helps some people on chemo, and glaucoma.

What would be the point of smoking pot, but not enough to get you high?

Alcohol in moderation (i.e. one drink with dinner or a day) has been shown to be beneficial to your health.
What is the point of drinking alcohol? Getting a heatlhier life?? AHAHAHAH. Yeah right.

Oh and one joint a day usually unstress you, I saw that with many friends. You don't need to get "high" to feel effects of MJ.

From what I've read, marijuana has more benefits than drawbacks /shrug. All the hippies and potheads talk about what a great resource it is for paper products and rope and shit like that. It's a weed. It grows incredibly fast and is incredibly cheap. All mind altering substances can be abused. alcohol is probably the most widely abused of them all yet it's legal. Alcohol is far more physically addictive than marijuana is and probably more destructive physically and monetarily to society. People hospiatlized with alcohol related diseases and conditions are very expensive and when it comes to homeless drunks who gets that bill? I'm not argueing to make pot legal but the inconsistencies in peoples thinking should be pointed out.

If the difference between the two were as simple as copying and pasting, then sure, you might have a valid arguement. It's not. Though, since you seem to be a complete fuckwit on the subject(s), let me point out a few things to you, Palimax.

Alcohol is already LEGAL. You knew that, right?

Pot is not legal. You knew that, right?

Alcohol CAN but does NOT ALWAYS affect judgement. It depends how much you drink. But, in your copy and pasting madness, I'm sure you thought about that.

Pot will affect your judgement no matter how much you use, from the first drag until the last, YOU ARE IMPAIRED. Have you ever used it before, Palimax? I'm assuming not, since you obviously have no clue as to what you're talking about when it comes to the subject.

I could spend more time punching holes in your arguements, but, well, they aren't really arguements... they're just sort of half retarded statements that have no relevance.

If you cannot see the difference between alcohol and pot in terms of why one can be used legally and why one cannot, you belong in the "I'm a fucking moron please shoot me" category. Congrats on joining that club, Palimax.

I can only hope if pot becomes legalized that people who support it are the first victims of violent crimes as a result of it. Then maybe when they have some experience with people who are on drugs, their view will change.

http://www.benbest.com/health/alcohol.html

Anyhoo, if I remember right, you're a frenchy right Anterak? You of all people should know about the benefits of a glass of red wine with dinner.

Hemp, can be used for many things, rope, clothing, etc etc, but that doesn't mean you should smoke it.

Personally, I don't think alcohol should be legal either, because the detriments outweigh the benefits. (except when used in extreme moderation) However, it already is legal, and as we saw with pohibition not likely to go away even if we do out law it again. I think we should have far more severe punishments for those that drink and drive, and even worse for those that kill people while under the influence. (You blow hot at a car accident where you killed someone, cop shoots you in the face sort of deal)

Alcohol CAN but does NOT ALWAYS affect judgement.
Any fact to back this up? Alcohol affects your senses, your reaction time, and your judgment. Just ask any road security officer. Hell I got battered with this when I was learning motobike riding... One glass is enough to make your attention fails.

Edit :
You of all people should know about the benefits of a glass of red wine with dinner.
I didn't say there was no benefit to drink moderately alcohol, but people don't drink because it's healthy. Well at least not myself. :D

Well I found a good article on norml.com about the
'talking points' (http://norml.com/index.cfm?Group_ID=3381) on this subject that I'll pull some various information from and summarize for ya. Then maybe some other stuff too. I normally wouldn't do all this from one article from an obviously pro marijuana site, but since it actually uses references, it seems like a good start.

This is gonna be long. ^_^

1. 1: Decriminalizing marijuana frees up police resources to deal with more serious crimes.
Taxpayers annually spend between $7.5 billion and $10 billion arresting and prosecuting individuals for marijuana violations. Almost 90 percent of these arrests are for marijuana possession only.
REFERENCE: NORML. 1997. NORML. 1997. Still Crazy After All These Years: Marijuana Prohibition 1937-1997: (http://norml.com/index.cfm?Group_ID=4428) A report prepared by the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML) on the occasion of the Sixtieth anniversary of the adoption of the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937. Washington, DC; Federal Bureau of Investigation's combined Uniform Crime Reports: Crime in the United States (1990-2000): Table: Arrest for Drug Abuse Violations. U.S. Department of Justice: Washington, DC.

The state of California saved nearly $1 billion dollars from 1976 to 1985 by decriminalizing the personal possession of one ounce of marijuana, according to a study of the state justice department budget.
REFERENCE: M. Aldrich and T. Mikuriya. 1988. Savings in California marijuana law enforcement costs attributable to the Moscone Act of 1976. (http://www.lindesmith.org/library/aldrich.html) Journal of Psychoactive Drugs 20: 75-81.

Marijuana arrests have more than doubled since 1991, while adult use of the drug has remained stable. During this same period, the number of arrests for cocaine and heroin fell by approximately 33 percent.
REFERENCE: Bureau of Justice Statistics. 2000. Drugs and Crime Facts. Table: Number of Arrests by Drug Type, 1982-99. U.S. Department of Justice: Washington, DC; U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. 1996. National Household Survey on Drug Abuse: Main Findings (1990- 1999). DHHS Printing Office: Rockville, MD.

Police arrest more Americans per year on marijuana charges than the total number of arrestees for all violent crimes combined, including murder, rape, robbery and aggravated assault.
REFERENCE: Federal Bureau of Investigation. 2001. Uniform Crime Report: Crime in the United States, 2000. Table 29: Total estimated arrests in the United States, 2000. U.S. Department of Justice: Washington, DC.


2. More harm is caused by the criminal prohibition of marijuana than by the use of marijuana itself.

According to the European medical journal, The Lancet (http://norml.com/index.cfm?Group_ID=3476), "The smoking of cannabis, even long-term, is not harmful to health. ... It would be reasonable to judge cannabis as less of a threat ... than alcohol or tobacco."

According to a 1999 federally commissioned report by the National Academy of Sciences Institute of Medicine (IOM), "Except for the harms associated with smoking, the adverse effects of marijuana use are within the range tolerated for other medications."
REFERENCE: National Academy of Sciences, Institute of Medicine (IOM). 1999. Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base. (http://www.nap.edu/readingroom/books/marimed/) National Academy Press: Washington, DC, 5.

The National Academy of Sciences further found, "There is no conclusive evidence that the drug effects of marijuana are causally linked to the subsequent abuse of other illicit drugs."
REFERENCE: National Academy of Sciences, Institute of Medicine (IOM). 1999. Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base. (http://www.nap.edu/readingroom/books/marimed/) National Academy Press: Washington, DC, 6.

Convicted marijuana offenders are denied federal financial student aid, welfare and food stamps, and may be removed from public housing. Other non-drug violations do not carry such penalties. In many states, convicted marijuana offenders are automatically stripped of their driving privileges, even if the offense is not driving related.
REFERENCE: Section 483, Subsection F of the Higher Education Act of 1998; Amendment 4935 to the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996; U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics. 1992. Drugs, Crime, and the Justice System. U.S. Department of Justice: Washington DC; NORML's State Guide to Marijuana Penalties. (http://norml.com/index.cfm?Group_ID=4516)


3: Decriminalization does not lead to greater marijuana use.

Government studies conclude that marijuana decriminalization has had virtually no effect on either marijuana use or beliefs and related attitudes about marijuana among American young people in those states that have enacted such a policy.
REFERENCE: L. Johnson et al. 1981. Marijuana Decriminalization: The Impact on Youth 1975-1980. Monitoring the Future, Occasional Paper Series: Paper No. 13. Institute for Social Research, University of Michigan.

Citizens who live under decriminalization laws consume marijuana at rates less than or comparable to those who live in regions where the possession of marijuana remains a criminal offense.
REFERENCE: E. Single et al. 2000. The Impact of Cannabis Decriminalization in Australia and the United States. Journal of Public Health Policy 21: 157-186.

There is no evidence that marijuana decriminalization affects either the choice or frequency of use of drugs, either legal (such as alcohol) or illegal (such as marijuana and cocaine).
REFERENCE: C. Thies and C. Register. 1993. Decriminalization of marijuana and demand for alcohol, marijuana and cocaine. The Social Sciences Journal 30: 385-399.

States and regions that have maintained the strictest criminal penalties for marijuana possession have experienced the largest proportionate increase in use.
REFERENCE: Connecticut Law Review Commission. 1997. Drug Policy in Connecticut and Strategy Options: Report to the Judiciary Committee of the Connecticut Assembly. (http://www.cga.state.ct.us/lrc/DrugPolicy/DrugPolicyRpt2.htm) State Capitol: Hartford.

Rates of hard drug use (illicit drugs other than marijuana) among emergency room patients are substantially higher in states that have not decriminalized marijuana use. Experts speculate that this is because the lack of decriminalization may encourage the greater use of drugs that are even more dangerous than marijuana.
REFERENCE: K. Model. 1993. The effect of marijuana decriminalization on hospital emergency room episodes: 1975-1978. Journal of the American Statistical Association 88: 737-747 as cited by the National Academy of Sciences, Institute of Medicine. Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base, (http://www.nap.edu/readingroom/books/marimed/) 103.

4. Laws prohibiting marijuana possession do not deter marijuana use.

Marijuana use remains consistent despite a high level of enforcement, and there is no detectable relationship between changes in enforcement and levels of marijuana use over time.
REFERENCE: J. Morgan and L. Zimmer. 1997. Marijuana Myths, Marijuana Facts: A Review of the Scientific Evidence. The Lindesmith Center: New York, 46.

Marijuana laws have no "specific" deterrent impact on drug taking behavior. Studies show that marijuana offenders continue to use marijuana after their conviction at rates equal to those prior to their arrest. No relation between the actual or perceived severity of their previous sentence and subsequent use has been found.
REFERENCE: P. Erickson. 1980. Cannabis Criminals: The Social Effects of Punishment on Drug Users. Addiction Research Foundation: Toronto.

In surveys, most individuals cite health concerns and family responsibilities rather than legal concerns as their primary reasons for ceasing (or never initiating) marijuana use.
REFERENCE: National Academy of Sciences, Institute of Medicine (IOM). 1982. Marijuana and Health. National Academy Press: Washington, DC.

I tried to get rid of the bad links, if there are any more, tell me and I'll nuke em.

So, there's some information for ya. I'll have more tomorrow, since I know some of the dates in that one are a bit old, and there are lots more issues about this. I'm running on 4 hours sleep the past 2 nights so if I do any much research I'll just fall asleep at the keyboard.

/sigh, figured someone had to turn this into a flamewar. Big surprise it was Krakah.

Alcohol CAN but does NOT ALWAYS affect judgement.

I'm pretty sure that's false. You really need to do some research so you don't look like you have no clue what you're talking about like this.

And that'll be the first and last time I'm responding to baseless flames in this thread. I figure I'll try it out and see how it goes.

Alcohol CAN but does NOT ALWAYS affect judgement.
Like my drunkard friend who thinks its funny to run to his car and try to drive off when we are drinking?

The last time it happened, he ran over my other friends leg.

The time before that I almost got my leg cut off with a samurai sword.

I hope your definition of "NOT ALWAYS" is less than a teaspoon, because from what I have seen with an alcoholic friend, even a couple beers or a single shot can fuck up his judgement pretty bad.

While I question the issues of legalizing marijuana, (and there are many good points in this thread) I can most certianly say that alcohol is the larger problem of the two.

Alcohol CAN but does NOT ALWAYS affect judgement. It depends how much you drink. But, in your copy and pasting madness, I'm sure you thought about that.

Pot will affect your judgement no matter how much you use, from the first drag until the last, YOU ARE IMPAIRED. Have you ever used it before, Palimax? I'm assuming not, since you obviously have no clue as to what you're talking about when it comes to the subject.
It goes both ways. Some people can metabolize alcohol better than others (as a result of tolerance or genetic characteristics or other stuff). For example at the last LA meeting, I got somewhat drunk from three or four beers, while Larkious just got a buzz from eleven. I'm willing to bet that he doesn't feel a thing from just a couple of beers.

Likewise with weed. Someone who smokes regularly for years won't be noticeably affected by a puff or two.

I can only hope if pot becomes legalized that people who support it are the first victims of violent crimes as a result of it. Then maybe when they have some experience with people who are on drugs, their view will change.
Uh, yeah, sure. You might as well wish that we all get killed by people driven into a maniacal frenzy by meditating or listening to too much Chopin :rolleyes:

I can only hope if pot becomes legalized that people who support it are the first victims of violent crimes as a result of it. Then maybe when they have some experience with people who are on drugs, their view will change.
Yea, watch out for those potheads with their uncontrollable laughter and bags of Cheetos slowly murdering you from the comfort of their couch while they watch cartoons.

I have a feeling that 99% of people supporting decriminalization already have a lot more experience with people on drugs, than you seem to judging by that statement. :-/

Yea, watch out for those potheads with their uncontrollable laughter and bags of Cheetos slowly murdering you from the comfort of their couch while they watch cartoons.

yeah or maybe the ones who brutally murder and rape their mothers...

So because one person (three articles all referencing the same unfortunate mishap) stated, and that's a very important word STATED, that he was too stoned to remember what happened?

Give me a fucking break, he knew exactly what he was doing whether he was on weed or not. They may have been fighting about his drug use or whatever, but do you honestly think that he killed her because he was on pot, not that he does it, but that he was on it at that particular point in time? Honestly, it has nothing to do with it. What you are insinuating is that weed made him kill her, and that otherwise they would've been having a good family night playing Monopoly together. Bullshit. Would some drugs make someone do something like this? Absolutely. But pot isn't PCP.

Slowing reaction time and somewhat poor decision making from pot? Yea, that's part of it. But never does it cloud your judgement so much as to make you believe that killing people is ok.. unless of course you have other problems mentally, in which case, its rather ludicrous to blame the drug.

Check out this report:
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-30/NCSA/Rpts/2003/809-673-color.pdf (Go to page 10 to look at the alcohol related fatalities)

If anyone is too lazy to look, it is set at 17,419 in 2002, and fairly steady around that number each year for the United States.


And here is a comparative article, anti-marijuana:
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v03/n1712/a11.html

in 2002, British coroners cited cannabis as the major cause of death in 18 out of 853 drug-related deaths.
Anyways, the point I'm trying to make is that a single instance of someone killing someone while they are on a drug proves nothing towards the effect of that on a person.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1896&ncid=720&e=8&u=/nm/20041014/us_nm/crime_harvard_dc

Oh, oh. 1 Harvard Student murdered someone, don't go to Harvard, or you'll become a murderer as well. Riiight.

it's just a 'high' (pardon the pun) profile case to illustrate my point, that not every pot smoker out there is some retard who sits around on his couch eating cheetos. Or are they, I'm getting confused, one pro-pot person says people can smoke weed and lead perfectly normal lives and contribute to society, but then another says no, pot is ok, because nobody would ever do anything bad, they'd be too busy laughing at stupid shit and eating cheetos.

So which is it? It doesnt do enough to cause harm, or it makes you not care about anything?

Or maybe like every other drug; upper, downer, or otherwise: it affects people differently. Like with the kid in the articles, one theory is he became paranoid, and when his mother confronted him about his drug use, turned violent?

We don't know yet, but it is possible, the last thing we need is something else out there to cause poor judgment and all the problems that go with it.

If anything, Pot needs to stay illegal, and we need harsher punishments for those that abuse alcohol. Maybe take some of those statistics down a notch. But making another drug readily available, won't do a god damn thing for lower death rates.

We don't know yet, but it is possible, the last thing we need is something else out there to cause poor judgment and all the problems that go with it.
That's exactly it though. Decriminalization is not changing a damn thing. It's not like nobody smokes weed right now because it is illegal. That same poor judgement and the problems that go with it, are already there.

Instead of a group of upper teens being able to go to a cafe in places like Vancouver though, the illegal environment forces them to do things like smoking bowls while they drive around in order to keep it a secret from those that they live with in a lot of cases. The fact that it is illegal contributes greatly to the amount of damage it does to society.

I don't support free legalization and letting everyone do whatever the hell they want. But if it is controlled with laws, such as prohibition of growing (with exception to government agencies, and person(s) that sustain their own supply for medical use - which could technically not be necessary in such a situation), illegality of possession over an specific amount deemed for personal use, prohibition of the operation of motor vehicles under the influence, and age-restricted.. Well, its going to promote a situation that is a hell of a lot better than it is right now where you have stoned morons driving all over the road not paying attention to shit.

I agree with you that not everyone reacts the same to it, that's the case with every drug known to man. But for the people that cannot handle conducting themselves as distinguished members of society while keeping marijuana as a part of a normal routine, don't you think that if it became a little more socially acceptable and people weren't pushed to extreme situations to use it, that it would benefit the situation as a whole?

The total number of marijuana arrests for 2003 far exceeded the total number of arrests for all violent crimes combined, including murder, manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery and aggravated assault.

Now, if the violent crime is the problem, the problem that marijuana has a relatively small chance of causing. Shouldn't they be pursuing the arrests for violent crimes a little more intensely rather than filling prisons with people who enjoy smoking a joint here and there first?

If the difference between the two were as simple as copying and pasting, then sure, you might have a valid arguement. It's not. Though, since you seem to be a complete fuckwit on the subject(s), let me point out a few things to you, Palimax.

Alcohol is already LEGAL. You knew that, right?Gee, no shit?
Pot is not legal. You knew that, right?Gee, no shit?
Alcohol CAN but does NOT ALWAYS affect judgement. It depends how much you drink. But, in your copy and pasting madness, I'm sure you thought about that.Good lord, you're dumb. Small amounts of alcohol have a small affect on people. Small amounts of dope have small affects on people. EVERYTHING has an effect, dumbass.
Pot will affect your judgement no matter how much you use, from the first drag until the last, YOU ARE IMPAIRED. Have you ever used it before, Palimax? I'm assuming not, since you obviously have no clue as to what you're talking about when it comes to the subject.I'll take this in a couple steps. OF COURSE pot affects your judgement JUST LIKE ALCOHOL you moron. That was the entire point of my parody. Alcohol is the same IF NOT WORSE than pot in almost every regard. You can't overdose on pot, and pot isn't physically adicting (two things that are true of alcohol) -- otherwise, they're pretty much dead even.

Have I used pot before? Yes. When I was younger, quite a bit, and not so much as I got older. Now that I'm in my 30's, I can safely say that I don't fear drug tests. I understand the subject from both a personal level, and from the standpoint that I've made my decisions based on looking at the facts.
I could spend more time punching holes in your arguements, but, well, they aren't really arguements... they're just sort of half retarded statements that have no relevance.You could, but you'd be punching holes in YOUR arguments. My post was a parody of the laughable excuse you made for why pot is bad, mmmkay? Every argument you had was equally applicable to alcohol.
If you cannot see the difference between alcohol and pot in terms of why one can be used legally and why one cannot, you belong in the "I'm a fucking moron please shoot me" category. Congrats on joining that club, Palimax.Then I guess I'm a fucking moron and you'll have to shoot me, because like many other people here on this board and elsewhere in this country I DO NOT see a logical difference between the legal consumption of alcohol and the criminilization of marajuana. Either make pot legal or criminalize alcohol.
I can only hope if pot becomes legalized that people who support it are the first victims of violent crimes as a result of it. Then maybe when they have some experience with people who are on drugs, their view will change.It's reassuring to know that you wish anyone to be the victim of crime. Thank god you're pulling for us! Violent crimes, at that. Look buddy, I'll take my chances against a bunch of angry soners looking for a ride to the next Phish concert anyway over my odds against a bunch of drunk assholes looking to do whatever drunks do these days.

Legality aside, what, again, is the difference between alcohol and marajuana?

Both in large quantities are bad, and both can be used for medicinal purposes; however, while consuming one alcoholic drink per day can be beneficial to most people's health, as well as being used for some heart disease patients, marijuana's use is pretty much limited to cancer patients. (and glaucoma) Hemp, a product of the plant, can be turned into many things, rope, clothing etc and is quite useful. But using a plant for cloth, doesnt have to involve smoking it.

Alcohol is significantly harder to make on your own, while growing your own pot plant is fairly easy, so keeping tabs on every tom dick and harry is a lot harder, and not positive on this, but because it would be too much of a pain in the ass, the government doesn't bother taxing people who brew their own beer, and wine. So the whole bit about we can make money off it, is pretty much out the window, cause who are you going to buy from, the store where you'll likely pay more, or Jimbob down the street who has his own homegrown pot?

Then there is the question of, well if it's easier for Adults to get it, it's going to be easier for kids to get it, is that something we really want happening?

Alcohol is significantly harder to make on your own, while growing your own pot plant is fairly easy, so keeping tabs on every tom dick and harry is a lot harder, and not positive on this, but because it would be too much of a pain in the ass, the government doesn't bother taxing people who brew their own beer, and wine.As someone who has brewed their own beer (in several different methods), and who can't keep a CACTUS(!) alive, I'm going to have to say that it's probably a toss-up on which is easier.

Brewing your own hard alcohol (grains, etc) is similarly easy. Here's steps simple enough for a 6th grader (and KJ): http://www.totse.com/en/drugs/booze_the_legal_drug/alcohol.html

As to the other point, I won't deny that there are possible health benefits to mild alcohol use.

I have brewed beer many times. Its requires equipment, ingredients and a degree of skill. Mostly it requires the ability to follow a recipe and other simple instructions.

To grow MJ, you need:

Seeds
Dirt
Sunlight
Water
The ability to drop a seed on the ground

Thats it. Plants grow all the time from people plucking their beaners out of the bags and chucking them on the ground. It is by far the easiest drug to make at home in the world. Thats why the government is afraid of it.

considering I've seen the stuff growing wild in Alaska, I'd say it's fairly easy to grow.. now if only we could get wild beer plants...

Sorry, pot does not make you paranoid. Speed makes you paranoid. The thing is, alot of people that do other drugs like speed, lsd, or shrooms, like to also smoke out to level the effects of the other stuff. That kid was most likely either so fucked up mentally that he would have done it anyway, or possibly on speed or coke in addition to having smoked out.

Having smoked pot for 6 years habitually I can tell you what pot does. It makes you tired, lazy and hungry. It also stimulates your mind. So you sit on the couch and watch cartoons, or read magazines, or play nintendo. I hardly believe that someone would be so energized by pot to want to go wrestle with someone and then rape and kill them. Way too much physical exertion.....

The thing with pot is that people want to be high all the time. You want to smoke a J before you leave for work, you want to smoke one at lunch, you want to smoke one when you get home. People that drink usually drink once they get home, and aren't stoned all day at work.

I honestly think that speed would be legal before pot. It makes people more productive and pot makes them less productive. Coffee is free at every company I have worked for. Why not take it one step further and give people a few toots during the day....

Phelonius

"Having smoked pot for 6 years habitually I can tell you what pot does. It makes you tired, lazy and hungry. It also stimulates your mind. So you sit on the couch and watch cartoons, or read magazines, or play nintendo. I hardly believe that someone would be so energized by pot to want to go wrestle with someone and then rape and kill them. Way too much physical exertion....."

I agree.

I think the cool thing about legalizing pot is you completely eliminate teenage problems/drug dealers. The second it is legalized, hello phillip morris. Do you think a gang/single drug dealer is going to be able to compete with a multi billion dollar company/industry? The answer is no. The fact is they will grow such mass amounts of weed and have so much power that the price will be so cheap it will not be even worth it for others to try and grow to sell. The MAJORITY of drug dealers only sell weed. At least out of the maybe 30-40 I have met. So the elimination is great.

Just treat it like alcohol. If you are caught driving on it then you get a DUI. If you come to work on it you get fired. People will catch on and learn how to manage it. It is not an addictive substance that will be uncontrollable.

Problems is you cant really test for dope like you can if you drank to much beer..BAC for instance. Pot stays in your system for a long time, beer doesn't.

They are having a tuff time convicting people who they think are under the influence of drugs while driving because its been shown certian drugs can stay in your system for weeks yet shouldnt really have any effects of your motor/judgement skills. IE dring while under the influence of a joint you smoked 2 weeks ago.

Ibudin

You'd think if people were really that concerned about the dangers of alcohol and how bad it is for you, they'd be fighting to get alcohol more restricted and not use it as an excuse to get Pot legalized.

"Damn..this shit's bad...let's get more bad shit legalized! It's less bad, so it's okay! Wuwu!"

Double-standards are a fundamental part of human existence.

Well they tried prohibition and it caused lots and lots of problems. Think it was made legal again to end all the problems.

I honestly think that speed would be legal before pot.

......you mean Methamphetamine? (http://www.drug-rehab-addiction-treatment.com/methamphetamine.html)

Negative effects of Methamphetamine Addiction include, but are not limited to:

* Hyperactivity and irritability
* Visual and auditory hallucinations (hearing "voices")
* Suicidal tendencies and aggression
* Suspiciousness, severe paranoia
* Shortness of breath and increased blood pressure
* Cardiac arrhythmia and risk of stroke
* Sweating, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea
* Long periods of sleep ("crashing" for 24-48 hours or more)
* Prolonged sluggishness, severe depression
* Weight loss, malnutrition, anorexia
* Itching (illusion that bugs are crawling on the skin)
* Welts on the skin
* Involuntary body movements
* Paranoid delusions
* Severe amphetamine induced depression and/or psychosis

Physiological effects of methamphetamine addiction include:

* Abnormally high blood pressure and rapid and irregular heart rate and rhythm
* Seizures and damage to blood vessels in the brain (stroke)
* Accumulation of excess fluid in lungs, brain tissue and skull
* Continuous and excessive dilation of the pupils
* Impaired regulation of heat loss and hyperpyrexia (body temperatures higher than 104°
* Internal bleeding and damage to other organs caused by disruption of blood flow
* Breakdown of muscle tissue, leading to kidney failure

No, just no.

Marijuana and Methamphetamine are not even on the same level.

There is a scary side effect list for every drug. The fact is that caffeine and ephedrine are the same class of drug. In case you don't know, speed is made from ephedrine. Speed is a very high powered version of caffeine. Not only is caffeine legal, but every employer on the planet has free coffee available for anyone that wants to pound 6 cups a day.

Phelonius

Starbucks, fuck ya!

In an amusing twist of fate, I was pulled over last night, and suspected of being a drunk driver. I had met some friends for a bachelor party (not mine), and we were on the way to a "Gentleman's Club" here in Phoenix [Guadulape, technically].

The club, Christies, is at an akward location on the south side of a road near a freeway, that means you can only come at it if there's either no oncoming traffic, or if you approach it from the west while heading east. Since I made the mistake of coming at it from the west heading west, I was forced to drive through a little Phoenix 'burb known for its 25 MPH speed limits.

Long story short, I was pulled over after driving in the low 40's on two 25 MPH streets. Residential postings don't fall into "reasonable and prudent," so I was thinking I was boned -- but here come the twist.

License, registration and insurance please. *Provided* *Time Passes* Sir, have you been drinking? [I hadn't - yet.] I smell liquor emiting from the vehilce, can you step out to the rear of the car?

So, I get out of my car, I step to the back, and I get a quick HGS test from the officer (follow the pen). Ok sure, you don't appear to have been drinking. Has someone else? Yeah. One of the guys in the backseat started hours ago. Ok. Be careful. Have a good night.

So, I got out of a speeding ticket last night because my friend smelled like liquor. If he hadn't been drunk, I would have probably just gotten a speeding ticket.

Anyway, we made it to Christies, and I dropped a couple hundred bucks. The $300 bar tab was painful :)

There is a scary side effect list for every drug. The fact is that caffeine and ephedrine are the same class of drug. In case you don't know, speed is made from ephedrine. Speed is a very high powered version of caffeine. Not only is caffeine legal, but every employer on the planet has free coffee available for anyone that wants to pound 6 cups a day.

Phelonius

Give me a list of effects like I just gave you for pot or coffee that are even remotely as bad. I'd love to see it. And many of those on the list aren't rare. Same class of drug doesn't equal same drug.

We know coffee isn't completely good for you, but saying speed isn't that bad is just plain ignorant.

And that's a kickass story max.

You'd think if people were really that concerned about the dangers of alcohol and how bad it is for you, they'd be fighting to get alcohol more restricted and not use it as an excuse to get Pot legalized.

"Damn..this shit's bad...let's get more bad shit legalized! It's less bad, so it's okay! Wuwu!"
Everything in excess is bad, and alcohol isn't the only thing to be bad in excess. Hell you can die from drinking more than 5 liters of water per day. And as mentioned Elemak, alcohol can be good for health, and as well drinking alcohol doesn't mean getting drunk. Nothing new here, black or white. Or you don't drink, or you are a drunkard? ;)
Pot in reasonnable quantity isn't dangerous. Yes when you are high, you could become a dangerous person. But again... If you smoke pot, it's only to get high, right?
Or when you eat, it's only to throw up twice, when you drive, it's only to get over the speed limit, when you play video games, it's minimum for a 12 hours marathon...

As long as they have a way of testing for unsafe usage while operating machinery, like a motor vehicle, I am all for something like this.

They need a THC breathalizer or something...

All it would take is for some guy to get past a roadcheck, then get in some wreck killing a bus full of kids and it will ruin it for everyone. Sure, regulating it and taxing it, frees up resources and money spent currently policing it.

Cocaine, Methamphetamine and many opiates are used for medicinal purposes *every day*. A lot more research should be done on THC for the treatment of AIDs, cancer and glaucoma.

All drugs are dangerous.

The LD50 (Lethal dose for 50% of the population) for caffeine is 10 grams for oral administration- which is about 200 cups of coffee or about 50 vivarins.

As such, you almost have to *try* to kill yourself with a drug like caffeine, but a much lower dose of something like meth (1 gram being the LD50) can kill you.

/shrug.

If a measure regarding making pot legal were ever put on the ballot in North Carolina, I'd probably go into shock.

North Carolina (and the US in general) needs to legalize hemp production to give ex-tobacco farmers something useful to grow.

I'd like to see it- you can run a diesel engine on hemp oil. Think about that for a bit.

Smoking one joint has been likened to equaling smoking a pack of cigarettes, so from a health issue, I can't agree to make it legal. However, if you want to kill yourself, I suppose there is a lot of poison to pick from.

I tried pot once and was allergic to it. It was a *most* unpleasant situation. Quickest way to cure me of a potential habit, though!