OCTOBER 14, 2004 (REUTERS) (http://www.reuters.com/) - WASHINGTON -- A computer chip that is implanted under the skin won U.S. approval yesterday for use in helping doctors quickly access a patient's medical history.

The VeriChip, sold by Applied Digital Solutions Inc., is placed in the upper arm in a painless procedure that takes minutes, the company said.

About the size of a grain of rice, the chip contains a patient identification number that corresponds to health information in a computer database.

A handheld scanner can retrieve the patient's number from the chip, which emits radio waves when activated.

Proponents hope doctors will use the technology to learn vital information about someone who is unconscious or having trouble communicating. The database could include details such as medication use, allergies and major health problems.

The chip implants have been used for years for various purposes such as identifying lost pets. But Applied Digital wasn't allowed to market the chips for medical use in the U.S. until the company received clearance from the Food and Drug Administration.

The FDA ruled in 2002 that it wouldn't regulate financial, security or other uses of the chips.

Privacy advocates have voiced worry about the speedy transfer of sensitive medical information via computer. Palm Beach, Fla.-based Applied Digital said the data would be kept secure.

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I don't think I would like to have a chip.

no, but when you get sideswiped by someone going 80 mph, and you're lying on the pavement bleeding to death, I'm sure you'd rather have the paramedics be able to scan a microchip and know your allergies, blood type, and any other pertinant medical history.

i like how this is being introduced into the populace, first with the extremes giving medical personel a much easier time with records and then gradually expand to which these implants could be put into

Acceptable risks. Do I risk not getting proper medical treatment in dire need in order to what...avoid getting a pamphlet from Phizer because they clinched off the air waves that I have a history of anus pains or whatever?

This is a technology that's long overdo. I want to be able to walk up to a vending machine and have it be able to read a credit chip from the back of my hand.

Logan's Run and 1984 are great stories, but these kind of things are hardly the herald of such civilizations.

Logan's Run and 1984 are great stories, but these kind of things are hardly the herald of such civilizations.

I don't think exploitation by government or some large corporation is really the issue here. Personally, I'd be more worried about an individual being able to access that information and abuse that information.

It's comparable to credit cards - obviously, they have their place in society, and are generally pretty safe. The possibility still exists, however, for individuals to use them as a means for theft. The big question about these medical microchips is going to be how safely they can store the information while still having the ability to be easily accessed in an emergency.

Too much paranoia....

I like the idea of the chip, hell extend it so all children have some version of it so we can get them safely home when abducted.

Fandros

We could have a sort of OnStar for the sub-adult crowd. If they're lost, you can find them. If they drink, you can trigger the gag reflex. Trying to have sex? Pull the trigger before the pants come off. No shortage of applications!

There'd need to be a social control too. Someone not disciplining their 5 year old who's screaming at the top of his lungs in line at ShopKo? Bzzzt...kid goes into a coma.

Ah yes...the possibilities are endless.

>kid goes into a coma.

god i love you

Hmm, I don't think the article mentions anything about the range of the chip, but I would assume its range is not long enough to be applied in such a way, Fandros.

Try not to think in range, but perhaps in location.

Say an Amber alert goes out for Johnny Billy Bob, missing in Souther Alabama.

All public scanners are then set to recognize that chip ID. When he's taken through it a silent alert goes out to his location.

Fandros

Yeah, but they may not even be long enough to do that. It's hard to say without really knowing anything about the technology, but if they're like other radio chips making their way onto the market, it could have a range as short as a foot or two.

Yeah, RFID chips don't work that way.

This thing would basically only transmit its hardcoded serial number back to a scanner. The scanner then looks up that serial number and finds what allergies you may have. The range on a handheld scanner is about a foot or so, IIRC. Higher powered ones, maybe 25-40 feet.

It can't actively transmit anything, only be scanned. It's powered by the RF waves of the scanner. It definitely couldn't respond to an event and transmit.

Now, if they came up with an equally cheap design that could be powered by body heat and actively transmit, that might be a step toward paranoia coming true.

You could probably work your way around that, though, Sanchek. If you really wanted to have a safe way to transmit long range communication between the chip and a scanner, I think you would need to set up the chips in such a way so they only transmit their information when a specific 'password' is sent to the chip. In the missing child scenario, only parents would know the password, who could give that information to the police. In addition, if you wanted the chip to transmit medical information securely, you could place another chip in the body (perhaps in their other arm) that contained the password, but would only emit it over a very, very short range.

Still though, I'm skeptical of why you really need a radio chip for the purposes of transmitting medical information. The basis for the idea has been around for a while - for instance, many insulin-dependant diabetics wear wristbands that label them as such. Why not just put that information on a barcode, and slap that on the back of your driver's license or credit card?

That's still not how they work. They don't transmit any information, only their RFID. NO data is stored on the devices.

It works like a library. The RFID device is like the dewey number of a book about you. It's up to the scanner to reference that ID and provide relevant data somehow. The RFID device itself is so simplistic it is completely powered by the incoming radio waves, since it only bounces a reflexive signal back.

Someone not disciplining their 5 year old who's screaming at the top of his lungs in line at ShopKo? Bzzzt...kid goes into a coma.
It would be far better to punish the parents- perhaps making them shit themselves or having one of their teeth randomly explode, leaving the nerves dangling and then delivering a small dose of super cold sulphuric acid to the exposed pain receptor?

Great, then you have a screaming kid and a screaming parent. That would also only work on very young children. Can you imagine yourself as a teenager having the ability to induce uncontrollable bowel blasts from your parents by yelling in public places or being truant? Better, can you imagine your son having that ability?

I dunno. Wouldn't the kid stop screaming and start laughing at that point?

For the sake of humanity's future, we can only hope so.

Escort memory systems sells some slick read/write RFID systems and infact the tags are becoming smaller and cheaper each year. I see in the near future many good things with this technology.

http://www.ems-rfid.com/index.html

I can do some pretty kick ass shit with these little buggers for bacially tracking inventory around the country. It is limited up to a couple hundred feet tops best with in 50 for a good read. In 5 years time its unbelieveable how far its come. 5 more years down the road.

NO thanks! It's the New World Order marking humanity! Soon they will control us all! The illuminati are on the way!!!!:eek:

pffft dumbass

It's the Masons! and The Greys... the illuminati is so last world apocalypse

no, but when you get sideswiped by someone going 80 mph, and you're lying on the pavement bleeding to death, I'm sure you'd rather have the paramedics be able to scan a microchip and know your allergies, blood type, and any other pertinant medical history.

True, but this is assuming that the wrist the chip is in is still in good shape. I wonder how much abuse the chips will be able to take, and what can possibly cause them to malfunction? And will any malfunction bring harm to your body?

Arn't The Grey's still working with the US Government is the secret Dulce Base? If you know that reference i'm impressed...=)

Its probably not that difficult to have the chip trasmit and recieve. It only needs to emit a very weak signal burst, as long as there is infrastructure in place to re-transmit and route it. Chances are there is existing networks now that can be harnessed, such as the cellular phone network. The phones we carry are constantly "talking" with the network, since the clock is updated and it increases connect speed if the network already knows where your phone is.

So, the wireless technology is there. Its just an achedemic question of making the device small, inconspicuous, safe, tamper-proof and rugged. It serves no good if it gets fried everytime you use your microwave or walk too close to any kind of source electromagnetic energy. As for power, the human body provides three different sources to harness. Body heat, bio-electric energy and energy that can be generated from the movement of the body. Also, there is enough stray radiowaves,static and electromagnetc energy zooming around to power a small city. The energy could be stored in some form of capaciter, and when pinged by an inquiry, it transmits a pulse, using the human body itself as the antenna. Chances are the technology will be ready LONG before the politics impliment it, but its a good guess that Human beings will have a Lojack device as standard equipment in the near future.

Just to add, I am surprised the military has not jumped on this as some kind of overpriced dogtag replacement. Military IDs already have all this info in (there is a computer chip embedded in them that is pretty much a ROM) them and miltary members usually don't have the option of refusing something. It would be just another shot. :p They probably don't think about this because dogtags are, after all, cheap and mandetory.

Halliburton owns the contract for stamping out all the dog tags, didnt you know that!?

Likely the micro-chip would be fairly durable*, and if implanted somewhere that if damaged would mean the person would be toast anyways.

* They've been using something similar in animals for years to track migration, specifically I've seen em doing it to salmon to track their numbers

Implant?

If only they could put it in the form of a suppository...

Oooh, Dulce Base, cool stuff. I didn't know that name, gave me something amusing to read tonight.

ID Chips like this are already in use in pets. Pretty cheap to, they slip the chip into the top of the neck, and it can be scanned anywhere to show your name and address if your pet gets lost. Been debating doing that with our cats, incase they get outside and lost.

A book like 1984 isn't about a literal future - science fiction is rarely about the actual future. It's more a reflection of the current times, and dangers that an author sees. There are a lot of aspects of 1984 that are present today.

I'm a firm beleiver that parents shouldn't be allowed to raise their own children anyhow and that it should be professionally done by trained nurterurs and discipliners. The days of boundless love between mother and child are over. You can keep your heartfelt stories about a parent and child sticking through troubled times and growing closer to eachother. I'd much rather have quiet.

That goes double for you fuckers talking on your cell phones in public. I stopped talking to myself in public when I was 7. It's now your turn.

We could have sensors out in public, if a child makes noise over a certain decibel level... BZZZZT! one comatose kid :)


The posibilities are endless!

And zap anybody that thinks the Blue Color Comedy Tour is actualy funny. "Hey, how do you tell a redneck from other people. HE LIKES BEER AND TITS! Hahahahahahahaha. GITR DONE!!!" Oh god please smite them.

Man, that show has no business existing. I work with these lame hick-types who always praise it, like its the second coming of Jebus.

Makes me so glad I don't have to stay there while I'm clocked in :(

you got a bad ass job saman =/


blue colar comedy tour was funny at one point but man apart from getting a 4 year old to say GIT R DONE its not that funny anymore

blue colar comedy tour was funny at one point

We can no longer be friends...

why can't we be friends?


ooooh...

why can't we be friends?

I seen you 'round for a long long time
I really 'membered you when you drink my wine

I seen you walkin' down in Chinatown
I called you but you could not look around

why can't we be friends?

Stop it. Stop it now.

I think Zehn needs to get laid :D

/snaps fingers Rick James style

Bitches! Go have sex with Zehn!

for osgil

Why can't we be friends?


Sometimes I don't speak too bright
but yet I know what I'm talking about

I know you're working for the CIA
they wouldn't have you in the Mafia

Why can't we be friends?

I'd kinda' like to be the president
So I could show you how your money's spent

Why can't we be friends?

no, but when you get sideswiped by someone going 80 mph, and you're lying on the pavement bleeding to death, I'm sure you'd rather have the paramedics be able to scan a microchip and know your allergies, blood type, and any other pertinant medical history.
I have to agree. I would be great to roll up on a serious MVA and be able to get a persons history instantly. Or if we had a call for an unresponsive person. We could scan them and have a good idea how to treat the patient until we got them to a hospital.
Of course there are other great applicattios too. Like tracking your kids. Or tracking criminals.
And, of course you know the government will abuse it.

i'd use it to locate all the mutants and execute them

Look how far we have come from the original post from Arisesun... The topic I believe was: Mark of the Beast?

Want my opinion.. yes, it is! it very subtle being introduce to the public as a need and not a want... But for the christians, it an endangerment and to be avoided. This is no joking matter Im afraid~ For those who dont know what Im talking about... Find a christian bible, and read the books of Isaiah, Daniel, and Revelations.. Follow by the 4 Gospels: Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John... Take the time to read Acts and Romans... and, I pray, that you will be filled with understanding of what you read...

I for one, wish to stand with the Lord Jesus Christ!

I read her post, and kinda chuckled to myself, not meaning in any way to discount her post.... but just wondering what is in store in replies...

I for one, wish to stand with the Lord Jesus Christ!

Someone please hand me a gun! QUICK!!!

And, fair Lilondra, I pray that one day you will wake up from your haze and realize that the Bible isn't going to save you - medical science will. Unless you have one of those steel plated-bullet deflecting Bibles. I want one of those.

And, fair Lilondra, I pray that one day you will wake up from your haze and realize that the Bible isn't going to save you - medical science will. Unless you have one of those steel plated-bullet deflecting Bibles. I want one of those.

Actually, to the faithful the Bible will save them.

Of many things I'll discuss, breaking someone down for their religious choices is likely a fools errand and I'll avoid it.

Fandros

The Biblical sense of saving isn't the same as the medical sense.

I don't usually go out of my way to bash someone's beliefs, but when that person uses their beliefs to oppose something that is advantageous to themselves (and even worse, their children) it absolutely sickens me.

When I was younger (5-6) I had a friend who happened to be a Christian Scientist or something like that. Their particular belief was that medical science was completely unneeded. My friend died of an appendix rupture. Because his parents refused to bring him to the doctor to get it taken out.

So, anyone who denies medical advances that are as simple as putting a chip in your hand in an effort to make it easier to save their own damn lives can shut the fuck up about their silly Biblical beliefs, because all it is - is bullshit written by people. It's not perfect and you shouldn't stick to it like a rigid and unchanging set of guidelines.

It just so happens I fully agree with you Talid. I've had to restrain myself a time or two when this local couple will watch their kid sicken to the point of bedrest all in the name of their faith.

Not sure if it happens again if I'll not take the situation into my own hands.

I respect folks beliefs, it's their own choice after all. But I'm not sure that a child that young can give that kinda of consent when it comes to their own well being.

Fandros

i'm not a religous person myself, but i've heard priests talk about these situations alot and i heard a pretty good analogy one time, i think this is how it goes...

a flood strands a man ontop of his house, the man being a priest gives all faith that the lord will save him, his neighbor comes by on his boat and offers him a ride out to a dry shore, the man turns to him and declines saying "the lord will save me surely," few minutes past as the waters slowly rise a rescue boat arrives and tries to get the man aboard, he again says "no thanks, the lord will surely save me," as his roof is almost nearly under water a helicopter comes by with a rope and the man waves off the helicopter thinking that the lord will save him. When he died from the incident he went to ask the lord "why didn't you save me from the flood?", the lord tells him "what do you mean? i sent your neighbor to help you, i sent the rescue team to help you, and a helicopter to pull you out"

all in all i don't get why some of these religous people don't get the fact that technology is not the anti christ, put a little faith in your fellow man and the way of science

I like that story. I especially like the sequal where the priest then pulls out good ol' shotty and blows God away then goes on a frag fest in Heaven.

Er.

Yeah...too much booze and gaming this weekend.

all in all i don't get why some of these religous people don't get the fact that technology is not the anti christ, put a little faith in your fellow man and the way of scienceThe technology is good, it's the putting "a little faith in your fellow man" that makes me wary.

I believe that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and opinions and I do not engage in browbeating someone because of their beliefs or religion. I have a couple of points I would like to make on the matter at hand. The opening post of this thread made reference to a Biblical prophecy concerning the mark of the beast (Anti-Christ) and how the RFID chips are the technology used to make that come about.

From the book of Revelation in the Bible...

Rev. 13:16-17
And he (Anti-Christ) causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: [17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.


From Strong's Concordance reference Greek 5480:

charagma, Greek 5480, Strong’s
charagma, khar'-ag-mah; from the same as Greek 5482 (charax); a scratch or etching,

In another reference... unfortunately I could not find it... it lists the word mark and the translation from a slightly different Greek word meaning to pierce.

Whether you believe in the Bible or not, no matter what your position on religion, there are those who feel that this is the beginning of what was told in prohecy.

Personal opinion:

I agree with those who have voiced that medical treatment should not be witheld because of one's belief. A fellow student, while I was in gradeschool, who was rushed to the hospital because of a ruptured appendix. His parents were of a belief that God would heal their son or not... and whatever happened, it would be God's will.

To look at the situation from a religious point of view, faith is what makes it possible for people to believe. However, those who would withold medical treatment seem to miss the point (also stated in their Bible) that all GOOD things come from the Lord. To look at it from their standpoint, they would have to admit that God GAVE man the knowledge of medical science. This would be similar to the guy on the roof who died in the flood.

As far as putting a chip under the skin for the purposes of medical information (or any other reason), personally I would refuse. But that's a decision that each person must make for themself.

Fine. Put the chip in their left buttock and (since the Bible is never wrong) it won't be the mark of the beast- since it is in the wrong spot.

I like that story. I especially like the sequal where the priest then pulls out good ol' shotty and blows God away then goes on a frag fest in Heaven.
i think i played the game based off of that story, i believe its called painkiller

Where's L2 when you need him to post how God and spirituality must be real, because of some cave paintings made 200,000 years ago resemble the human testicles?

Fine. Put the chip in their left buttock and (since the Bible is never wrong) it won't be the mark of the beast- since it is in the wrong spot.
<chuckle> Interesting idea Esbat... but according to research, the best place to put the chip for readability after it has been implanted in the human body is.. the back of the hand or the forehead. They found that the right hand worked better than the left because of something to do with the proximity of the heart. I am still looking for the article.. it was interesting reading. Either way..seems the Bible already had that one figured out. <shrug>

Rev. 13:16
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

I've had to restrain myself a time or two when this local couple will watch their kid sicken to the point of bedrest all in the name of their faith.There's plenty of stupid people in the world (http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/3826496/detail.html), not just "Jesus freaks."

$10 says he's a Bush supporter :)

No Republican would admit to being an arsonist.

That's because Republicans are afraid of fire, duh.

'FIRE BAD, VOTE BUSH, *GRUNT SNORT*

I agree with those who have voiced that medical treatment should not be witheld because of one's belief. A fellow student, while I was in gradeschool, who was rushed to the hospital because of a ruptured appendix. His parents were of a belief that God would heal their son or not... and whatever happened, it would be God's will.

To look at the situation from a religious point of view, faith is what makes it possible for people to believe. However, those who would withold medical treatment seem to miss the point (also stated in their Bible) that all GOOD things come from the Lord. To look at it from their standpoint, they would have to admit that God GAVE man the knowledge of medical science. This would be similar to the guy on the roof who died in the flood.

Agreed. I'm agnostic, but I still know that things like this aren't the fault of (most)religions, they're just people being astoundingly stupid.