Figured this would be discussed for a while in the media.

I think he unfortunately had to spend too much effort in distancing himself from Bush, that it really hurt him in certain areas.

Secondly, Palin fired up Republicans but i really believe drove independents to Obama.

Thoughts?

Osi, if you are actually able to speak in noninflammatory way would really like your thoughts on this.

As I mentioned in another thread, his departure from the Maverick and adoption of the Panderer for votes, along with his Veep selection and age, were a combination that could not hope to overcome the ties to the Bush Republican woes. This election was the Democrats to lose.

As I mentioned in another thread, his departure from the Maverick and adoption of the Panderer for votes, along with his Veep selection and age, were a combination that could not hope to overcome the ties to the Bush Republican woes. This election was the Democrats to lose.

I think that's a big part of it.

I do however think if he'd spoke like he did last night, and quelled the hatred like he did last night with the boos, the outcome might have been different.

I think that's a big part of it.

I do however think if he'd spoke like he did last night, and quelled the hatred like he did last night with the boos, the outcome might have been different.

And I have to add, if Bush had shown the side of himself during the past year or two that he just displayed in his congratulatory remarks, he might have lessened a little of the antagonism people feel toward him. It was a Presidential speech, for a change.

I do however think if he'd spoke like he did last night, and quelled the hatred like he did last night with the boos, the outcome might have been different.

True! his loss was less with who he is but rests more with who he choose to listen too.



yea 1000 posts!! do i get an acheivment point or something??

And I have to add, if Bush had shown the side of himself during the past year or two that he just displayed in his congratulatory remarks, he might have lessened a little of the antagonism people feel toward him. It was a Presidential speech, for a change.


Do you have a link to the Bush speech? I was unable to find a copy of it on youtube yet.

Do you have a link to the Bush speech? I was unable to find a copy of it on youtube yet.

I saw it live, so no link, sorry.

Will have a look around.

Too much hate, period. The factions in the GoP that pander to the super conservative nutjobs instead of coming to the middle and showing the ability to reach across the aisle is part of what did it. His ads were constant attacks on Obama whereas the ads I saw from Obama were focused on what he would do, they featured him talking directly to the viewer and not someone else posting quotes on a black background with photos invoking fear. Fear and hate might have gotten Bush re-elected but it was the wrong message 7yrs later.

And to top it off McCain seemed wishy-washy and never really saying what he was going to do but only saying what his opponent would do and how impressive his biography was. He sounded like a puppet and not the same guy from years past. I think the GOP used him and I think Sarah Palin was a huge mistake sure she was funny and cute but she proved to have more skeletons in her closet anyone could have imagined. She became an easy target for the media and others and the focus from McCain was lost. She overshadowed her running mate in almost every way. I have to think the GOP had a hand in picking her *tinfoil hat time* I think the GOP doesn't like McCain b/c of his history with the party and while he may have gotten the nomination from his party it was begrudingly won. I think knowing that the country was done with Republicans in the white house they set him up.

I think he's a good man who made bad choices and followed bad advice. I think if he would have stepped out of the shell of what the GOP wanted him to be and would have instead be who he's known for the results would have been different. I admire any person for willing to put themselves and families under a multi-year microscope in hopes of being our leader. It has got to be one of the toughest and draining things a person can do. I can't imagine it. So everyone who tried with the exception of Fred Thompson has my respect.

In my dreamland I'd love to see someday a bi-partisan gov't not just in Congress but at the cabinet level. I think many of these people have the ability to help our country and wish that party affiliation and loyalty didn't matter as much as we've allowed it to become. In my dreamland I think McCain would make an excellent Sec. of Defense and I could forsee Hillary as Attorney General or even Sec. of State. Ron Paul of course should be Sec. of Treasury. Again though, I'm just dreaming but part of me thinks that having a Black president is so utopian that anything could happen.

Look at the parties last night. McCain's supporters was a private party of around four thousand. Obama's party was as many people that wanted to cram in there in Chicago. McCain became a man of the few, Obama became a man of the many.

I believe it was his concentration on "the base" that really hurt him that includes Sarah Palin in that as she was a pick so obvious to get that base.

I think that people saw through the facade, the contrived heroes that were placed on pedestals by the republicans along with attacks on people with educations, we have a society that places a great emphasis on getting a college education and a political party that mocks those with the education, that long with attacks on the loyalties of Americans in whole sections of the country.

Some notable campaign moves with serious blowback:

Joe Sixpack - We aren't all six pack drinking townies who scream USA-USA-USA at every turn.

Joe the Plumber - Not a plumber, name wasn't Joe, owed back taxes, never was going to buy the business he spoke of, would have been better off under Obamas tax plan, sucked at foreign policy.

The rallies - The venom spewed at the McCain and Palin rallies...not good...not good at all.

The Socialist/Marxist - plainly a retarded thing to have tried.

William Ayers - Never killed anyone, never convicted of a crime, became a noted college professor, advocate of education, doesn't really know Obama and no one really gives a shit...oh, did I mention that christian thing called redemption?

Lipstick on a pig - utterly ridiculous.

and finally...the really big one - Sarah Palin! or how to lose the suburbs, the educated, the blacks, the hispanics and the common sense voter.

It's arguable that McCain's first mistake was that he ran a campaign that depended on Obama making a big one, but the real problem happened around the RNC when he sold himself to the party instead of leading it; the Palin nomination was a symptom of this but serves as something of a metonym for it. By selecting Palin, the campaign drew a line in the sand of who was "us' and who was "them," and this time "them" happened to include all the independents and everyone educated and anyone who'd ever heard we have a constitution.

I'm still surprised that the popular vote is only a 6% difference. With all the blunders of the McCain campaign, I really would have thought it'd be a lot more like a Reagan v Mondale type result.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f0e_1225909008

Bush comments.

Does anyone have numbers on the actual percentage of voters who voted?

Someone said 64% earlier today. If correct, that makes it one of the historic highs.

I was the highes turn out in 100 years or something like that...

From a very simple standpoint, he lost for two big reasons. Palin, while she attracted some core voters, drove off more to Obama. His age might not have been the issue that it became had he picked a sensible Veep.

The second mistake, as others have noted, was his inability to distance himself from the GOP. I like the statement that he became a man of the few, and that coupled with the current hatred towards the GOP killed him.

The election was still close enough that I would imagine, had he dodged either of these bullets, and especially the Palin mistake, it could have easily gone the other way.

This article (http://www.newsweek.com/id/167581) has some incredible insights into just how much disdain McCain had for Palin, among some other funnier and more serious "off the record" notes.

A view of 2012? Stealing on the clock probably wins her points with Cheney.


NEWSWEEK has also learned that Palin's shopping spree at high-end department stores was more extensive than previously reported. While publicly supporting Palin, McCain's top advisers privately fumed at what they regarded as her outrageous profligacy. One senior aide said that Nicolle Wallace had told Palin to buy three suits for the convention and hire a stylist. But instead, the vice presidential nominee began buying for herself and her family—clothes and accessories from top stores such as Saks Fifth Avenue and Neiman Marcus. According to two knowledgeable sources, a vast majority of the clothes were bought by a wealthy donor, who was shocked when he got the bill. Palin also used low-level staffers to buy some of the clothes on their credit cards. The McCain campaign found out last week when the aides sought reimbursement. One aide estimated that she spent "tens of thousands" more than the reported $150,000, and that $20,000 to $40,000 went to buy clothes for her husband. Some articles of clothing have apparently been lost. An angry aide characterized the shopping spree as "Wasilla hillbillies looting Neiman Marcus from coast to coast," and said the truth will eventually come out when the Republican Party audits its books.


ccording to Fox News Chief Political Correspondent Carl Cameron, there was great concern within the McCain campaign that Palin lacked "a degree of knowledgeability necessary to be a running mate, a vice president, a heartbeat away from the presidency," in part because she didn't know which countries were in NAFTA, and she "didn't understand that Africa was a continent, rather than a series, a country just in itself."

So, the real kicker...why did he pick her, and whose voice was he listening to?

Apparently it was Steve Schmidt who picked her and it was a play for the base.

McCain ran on the "my judgement is better than the other guys" and then he a) picked Palin b)dissed Letterman c)stopped campaigning and went back to congress where his sole contribution seemed to be to slow down the fix it package.

He would have won vs clinton, but had no chance vs Obama.

Whatever happened to Joe the Plumber?

There was a brilliant campaign move!

Take a guy named Samuel and tell everyone his name is Joe when its Samuel and then blame the media for it, say he's a plumber when he's not and then blame the media for it, realize he doesn't pay his taxes and then blame the media for it, let him go on TV and discuss foreign policy and ignore his completely retarded and uninformed answers and then blame the media for it.

Where's Joe now?

I'm betting he's under a bus somewhere between McCain's last rally and his driveway.

Where's Joe now?

I'm betting he's under a bus somewhere between McCain's last rally and his driveway.Sadly, much of the Right is still cheering him on. I understand he signed some sort of publicity deal, and their were rumors he may run for office in his home state. That is, if the nasty, evil liberals stop telling stories about him.

God, I hope he doesn't run for office here. That would just make whatever race he was involved in even more a laughingstock than politics has become.

What qualifications does he have? That he can lie about his qualifications to even be a plumber? That he can lie about buying a business? That he can lie about paying his taxes? Great another lying politician, but this one would be a liar without any other qualifications.

Maybe Vice-Presidential candidate for Palin when she runs in 2012?

I have to say that I found it sadly humorous that the McCain campaign used the media's investigation of Joe the Plumber, who McCain himself put in the spotlight inviting a closer look, as attack fodder against the Obama campaign.

Apparently, anything that was contrary to the 'manufactured' resume of this guy was the responsibility of the Obama campaign. I really don't think that helped McCain win over many independent voters.

And I am glad there was no last minute story about Lt. McCain's auto accident in the 60's, because I think that would have hurt Obama more than McCain in the long run.