Perhaps this belongs in Sports, but as you may have heard, Atlanta Falcons QB Michael Vick was indicted by the Feds yesterday for running a high stakes dogfighting operation on his Virginia property (under the name of Bad Newz Kennels) wherein dogs were routinely executed (if they didn't die during a fight), often by grisly means, including electrocution, slamming their heads to the ground, or drowning. Story here:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2940065&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines

I really, really hope he does hard time for this, but given what passes for justice for NFL superstars, it seems unlikely. Odds he'll get more than a brief suspension from the Falcons management or the NFL, if that?

Regards,
Nydia

Lol, if this isn't 'gallows humor', so to speak, anyone want to vbookie this? Say, when does Vick lose his Nike deal? When do they cut him for all that yummy salary cap money? Who replaces him? Too bad Matt Schaub is in Houston... ;)

Being an owner of two pits this entire thing really gets to me. Its horrible what they do to those dogs...I honestly don't think they will treat this lightly. He will hopefully loose everything from endorsements, court costs, and not being able to play.

Why am I not surprised he attempted to place the blame for this on "family members" who took advantage of his generosity? I anticipate Vick will deny any involvement or knowledge as long as his attorney thinks that there is any chance of beating the charges, but that he will roll over and cooperate fully if he believes there is any chance of seeing a jail stay, and the accompanying loss of income.

Hopefully this will be treated more seriously than most criminal charges against professional athletes. And, I hope the federal authorities are making arrests in those other states where fighting dogs were brought from, as the article mentioned, and not just looking at getting the celebrity figure.

I have to agree with Nydia, that some vBookie bets would make this a story that gets followed more closely.

Lol, if this isn't 'gallows humor', so to speak, anyone want to vbookie this? Say, when does Vick lose his Nike deal? When do they cut him for all that yummy salary cap money? Who replaces him? Too bad Matt Schaub is in Houston... ;)

I am not going to set up any odds on something morbid like this (let's bet on the fate of the accused dog fighter is rife with hypocracy). Also, if he does get suspended or such, one look at the roster would show that Joey Harrington is who would replace him right now. Though I woulnd't be surprised to see ATL go after Daunte Culpepper now (now wouldn't that be funny since Harrington and Culpepper were both in Miami last year). As far as Nike, he'll have to be convicted to lose his deal. Kobe didn't lose his deal when he was accused of Rape. When does ATL cut him? When he's convicted or suspended for more than a season by the NFL.

The new NFL Commish has promised this year he will get tough with the so called bad actors of the NFL.

I'd wager he'll be suspended pending investigation and if convicted he'll be banned from the NFL all together.

Fandros

poor poor gerf is probably crushed lawl

I'd wager he'll be suspended pending investigation and if convicted he'll be banned from the NFL all together.

Given the commisioners track record so far, this seems an almost certainty. Vick would provide for him the ultimate example of what happens to players who are less than model citizens.

I certainly hope this happens. It is past time to clean up some of the bad apples in the NFL and NBA and hell all the major sports I think. None are without at least one or two I'm sure. I'd personally like to see the message sent that says we don't care how good you are you still need to abide by the laws every other citizen has too.

let's bet on the fate of the accused dog fighter is rife with hypocracy

1) That was kind of the point of the joke :) Does the word 'karma' mean anything to you? In this case, 'Karma's a bitch'?

2) Virtual betting on the fate of a scumbag who tortures (or allows to be tortured) animals to death is hardly in the same league as engaging said torture.

3) Even if he ends up getting off, Mr. Vick is *still* a scumbag (and let's face it, considering the pile of evidence and confiscations, and that this was the Feds, I highly doubt we're talking a Duke Lacrosse team situation here)... and one of the worst deals the Falcons have made with regard to cost/benefits.

4) I'm aware that Joey Harrington would be M. Vick's backup/replacement; that was also part of the joke (as he's still... Joey Harrington, and Matt Schaub is *still* in Houston :) ).

5) I wasn't trying to make light of the event *itself* - quite the opposite. This was a gruesome set of actions which I found absolutely horrifying, which is why I posted it here in the first place. Despite their bad rep, Am. Staffordshire Terriers (aka Pit Bulls) are sweet and loyal dogs when raised properly and given proper exercise, and it pisses me off that idiot owners so often mistreat them and bring out the worst in them (and then the dogs get blamed, put down, etc). All dogs, despite their occasional willingness to fight over territory, status, etc, are social animals who do not normally fight to seriously injure or kill; this behavior was forced (or abused) into them, and it's reprehensible - just because this crime involved animals, instead of people, doesn't make it any less horrific (one might argue more so, as animals can't give consent).

Regards,
Nydia

P.S. I hope the Commissioner *does* make an example out of him; the reason I have my doubts, despite his well-publicized 'zero tolerance' stance, is due to the fact that 1) Vick *is* a high profile player, and 2) it's his first 'real' offence.

and 2) it's his first 'real' offence.

Eh, I don't keep up with Pro ball nearly as much as college, but wasn't Vick caught at airport security recently with something? Sorry, really vague on the particulars and obviously he got off, but model citizens don't carry around water bottles with false bottoms.

Yeah, there was an incident where he was stopped at the Miami airport a couple of months ago with a water bottle with a false bottom supposedly containing drug residue (Vick claims it was a 'jewelry box'), but the tests came up negative, and, no charges were filed, so technically it's his 'first offence'.

Oh, and a slightly used-and-bruised Daunte Culpepper is back on the market I see, having been released by Miami today... oh for salary cap room :).

With all of the chicanery that NFL players pull, I really cannot be brought to care about some dogfighting charge.

I am not going to set up any odds on something morbid like this (let's bet on the fate of the accused dog fighter is rife with hypocracy).


You have totally missed the point of the "gallows humor". Without some kind of investment in the story, how many will still be giving it any thought in a week?


And Ainwein, your comment surprises me, Comparing this to the "chicanery" of other NFL athletes is grossly understating the seriousness of dog fighting and the related animal cruelty and torture that is involved. :(

I dunno.

I have dogs. I like dogs.

We have NFL players that run around with semi-automatic weapons. They hit women. They have millions of dollars but apparently cannot be bothered to hire a driver so they get DUIs instead. They associate with people who get into gunfights. They are so obsessed with their self-image that the possibility of being removed from a team or heavily fined is not a deterrent to getting into stupid brawls over nothing.

Some of these people simply aren't intelligent enough to be worthy of the money bestowed upon them. Thank God for professional sports. Dog fighting isn't a good thing, but it's far from the worst offense committed by these people.

You have totally missed the point of the "gallows humor". Without some kind of investment in the story, how many will still be giving it any thought in a week?

I understand the meaning of gallows humor, but I can't agree to lower myself to setting up lines about something as serious as this. If you want to bet there are lines out there on him getting suspended, atl making the playoffs, atl winning the nfc south/nfc/super bowl, him playing another nfl game, etc (heard about it on espn radio today).

As far as who will care in a week? There are 120 million Americans that watch football on Sunday's between 1 pm and 8:15 pm est each week. I don't think this will be swept under a rug.

And I somewhat agree with what Ainwein says here. Vick should be punished to the fullest extent of the law, this is a serious offense. BUT, IMO it's a lot more serious that Pacman Jones was involved in a shooting that paralyzed a human being.

As American's we tend to take the lives of pets more seriously than the lives of humans. Now animals are defenseless, but i think it's reprehensible that the life of an animal means more than the livelyhood of a human being.

With all of the chicanery that NFL players pull, I really cannot be brought to care about some dogfighting charge.

You have to be kidding me, he, allegedly, was not only involved but ran, bred and cruelly put to death animals.

There is, and proven my mad doctors everywhere, a fine line between animal and human cruelty.

Vick, if convicted, should be removed from the NFL ...lifetime ban kinda thing.

Fandros

I agree fandros, and also feel the same way about pacman jones.

Theres always Canada if you want to watch him play, and didnt his little brother have alot of issues also ?

Yeah Marcus Vick had tons of issues at Virginia Tech.

As far as the human versus animal train of thought, most of the people that get in compromising positions with professional athletes were involved with them by choice, either as groupies, hangers-on, seeking vicarious notoriety, etc. The animals had no choice in the hand they were dealt, which might in part explain why some take this situation more to heart than they do some of the other situations with our pro-sports folks.

Please note I said most of the people, and not all.

Regarding of the comparison between the worth of an animals life to a humans, obviously there shouldn't be. However, what Michael Vick is displaying, is a complete disregard for life. A person capable of crushing a dog's skull is capable of anything. Michael Vick is a piece of shit. He's a flash in the pan quarterback that just self destructed. He would be a great candidate for "Making an example". Cruelty to animal charges is not that steep, but racketeering, illegal gambling and whatever else this dirtbag is charged with, is enough to put him in prison and strip away all of his money in legal fees and lawsuits.

I hope he spends a long time in jail, whether he will or not.......I'm going to put some faith in the system on this one.

:devil

What would Oprah say to Michael Vick?



Today at 1:20 pm
Oprah Winfrey is mourning the death of her 2-year-old golden retriever, Gracie.

"Weeks have passed," Winfrey says in the August issue of O, the Oprah Magazine. "And the pain has not subsided. Every time I think about it, my heart starts racing and I feel like I just got stabbed in the chest."

On May 26, Gracie choked to death on a plastic ball that belonged to Sophie, Winfrey's 12-year-old cocker spaniel, while out with her dog walker and two other golden retrievers, Winfrey says.

"I ran barefoot out of the house and found the dog walker and one of my security guys pumping her chest," Winfrey, 53, recalls. "Just as I reached them, the security guy looked up and said, `I'm sorry, ma'am. We tried everything. I'm sorry. She's gone.'"

Winfrey — who "stood there dazed, stunned, crying" as Gracie was placed in a golf cart — says she learned this lesson: Enjoy life but remember to slow down, too.

"She never stopped moving. Was energy in motion. ... I have never seen a being, human or animal, always so full of joy," Winfrey says of Gracie, who ran amok and gulped food and treats. "This dog lived every moment as though it were her last."

Winfrey says she "got the message" to slow down and catch her breath when Gracie died.

"I don't believe in accidents," says the host of "The Oprah Winfrey Show" "I know for sure that everything in life happens to help us live."

___

On the Net:

O Magazine:

http://www.oprah.com/omagazine/ (http://www.oprah.com/omagazine/)


This woman is rediculous. How the hell does this capture headlines? Seriously, WTF? Ya think this wacko is just a bit on the sheltered side? :spade

:devil

But....but....she ran out of the house barefoot, fer pete's sake!

Got booked by ESPN for a shoot on July 26th in Richmond at the Court House. I can't imagine anything other than this trial being what we're covering - but is he honestly going to court that soon?

Walker!!!! NO!!!! oh the humanity !!!

This really helps my Saints out imo....

The 26th is for his arraignment hearing.

if the things they are claiming are true, hope the bastard is left pennyless and no proteam will touch him.

Unfit dogs were allegedly hung, chocked out, and 1 instance of its body being slammed on the concrete.......if its true he is a bastard.

Unfit dogs were allegedly hung, chocked out, and 1 instance of its body being slammed on the concrete.......if its true he is a bastard.


Obviously this doesn’t equal the murder/torture of human beings, however, it's a small step behind. Imagine what's next for a person that can slam puppies onto concrete until they are dead....PUPPIES. These people have no regard for any life, human or animal, they would soon be doing the same things humans they associate with in short order, guaranteed.

With all of the chicanery that NFL players pull, I really cannot be brought to care about some dogfighting charge.

Ain, this is much, much, much more serious than the run of the mill "chicanery" that NFL players pull. Vick is one sick asshole and needs to be locked up and given treatment for his associal behavior. Off hand Rae Carruth is the only sicker NFL bastard I can think of.

Like I said, I have two Jack Russell Terriers that I love.

I do think that the things being alleged are sick and twisted. Still, it's a dog. I think this moral outrage is simply a cultural thing. Dogs are eaten in other societies, and their deaths are not far off from the ones being described in the indictment.

While you may think this type of behavior is the worst thing occurring in the NFL, I strongly disagree. People have died due to their proximity to the NFL and the attitudes it can bring. Animal cruelty is nothing to be taken lightly, but I would rather have someone hurting a dog than driving around drunk and hopped up on cocaine where my family and others could be put at risk.

The fact of the matter is that people do kill puppies and dogs for all sorts of reasons, and not all of them are 'capable of killing people.' What about smashing a chicken on the ground? Is it okay because we use it for food? Would you find it acceptable if this was the preferred method of dog execution in China, for example, as long as it was to be used for consumption?

Everyone keeps going on about the sacredness of animal life, but I'm thinking that by animal life you mean your beloved Rover, and not much else.

Let me be the first to post a one-sided, shock-article, with no documented basis for the "facts" being stated.

http://www.arkonline.com/violence.html






Mass-murderer and cannibal Jeffrey Dahmer killed neighbors' pets and impaled a dog's head on a stick.
Patrick Sherril, who murdered 14 co-workers and then killed himself, stole pets, then tied them up and allowed his own dog to mutilate them.
David Berkowitz, the so-called "Son of Sam," shot his neighbor's labrador retriever.
Albert DeSalvo, the "Boston Strangler," shot arrows into boxes of trapped cats and dogs.
Brenda Spencer, who fired 40 shots into a crowd of children, murdering 2 and wounding 9, had a history of setting the tails of neighborhood cats and dogs on fire.
Edmund Emil Kemper III, who murdered his mother and 7 other women, used to abuse cats and dogs.
Carol Edmund Cole, who murdered 35 people, admitted that his first violent act was strangling a puppy.
Richard Allen Davis, kidnapper and murderer, doused cats with gasoline and set them on fire.




I can't shake the feeling that there is some truth in there somewhere . . .

they even have put it in movies that, animal abuse can lead, not necessarily will, but can lead to further lashing outs..


Hell i learned that on Criminal Minds and CSI :p

you mean your beloved Rover


Thanks for the thoughts, much appreciated.

Let me be the first to post a one-sided, shock-article, with no documented basis for the "facts" being stated.

http://www.arkonline.com/violence.html








I can't shake the feeling that there is some truth in there somewhere . . .

And to top it all off... Mike Vick, dog killer/dog fighter ... killed the falcons chances for a super bowl

Off hand Rae Carruth is the only sicker NFL bastard I can think of.


I still have a three card set of his Rookie and two parallels from the Skybox Premium set, one of them being the Ruby numbered # of 25. Waiting for him to get killed in prison, and then will put them on Ebay and let the morbid shits outbid each other.:devil

He is fucked in the head. We dont even know all the shit he has done to others that money covered up over the years. Im sure there is going to be alot more brought out as the pile gets deeper for him.

(the irony of NEkko calling someone sick in the head and having a mass murder as his sig ) love you man!

MedellÃ*n with Vincent Chase!

MedellÃ*n with Vincent Chase!


Its going to sweep Cannes. and Im an Sk Grey, mass murder is something I witness nightly :devil

sorry mate, fogot people still actually play EQ.., forgive me

I gave it up for little over a year and got drawn back in the last 3-4 months. Hopefully all this rain will go away in Texas so can actually get out and some out door activities.

The indictment hit Vick personally Thursday when shoe manufacturer Nike (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/nike_footwear) announced it has suspended release of its Zoom Vick V shoe after "the serious and highly disturbing allegations."


Hope this puts a slight dent in his pocket book. Think one good thing out of all this is that it really got the pot stirring again on this topic. Fines and legislation will hopefully get tougher and tougher on those who partake in dog fighting.

I wonder if it would be different if it was cock fighting that he was into instead of dogs. I take my dog to the park and events on occasion and meet people with pit bulls, They always want to educate me about the breed and show how nice there dog is., the bad eggs ruin it for everyone I guess.

But growing up in Texas Ive seen a few cock fights in my time, a little cruel and bloody my first blew my mind away, but was exciting. Not somethign Id go and throw in my back yard, and I do believe there is cheating as far as spikes ect that are used. Growing up on a small farm the roosters fought all the time to make alpha even witht he nieghbors rooster if he was brave enough and got out to cross the road :)

But do people really consider chickens in the same percpective since they really only eat them versus raise them as a house hold pet.

Something I was thining about late night tonight.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/07/23/vick.punishment.ap/index.html?cnn=yes

I like the first cartoon, works for me:

http://www.cagle.com/news/VicksDogFight/main.asp

"So what's your favorite position in sports? District attorney, federal prosecutor or Drug Enforcement Agent?" ROFL

This morning while listening to the morning drive radio (KQRS-FM), the Hollywood connection made an interesting comment regarding the Michael Vick case. Seems that HBO has been working on a documentary type program for the last six months or so that should be aired in the near future; topic - dog fighting.

HBO was working on this program with a focus on the violence and cruelty involved way before anyone had made any issue regarding Michael Vick, but you know this is going to end up being on a jury questionaire. "Did you watch the HBO special on dog-fighting, or have anyone discuss the special with you?"

From what Mike Evans was saying in his report this morning, it sounds like they really make the people involved in the "sport" look like brutal scumbags, which does not bother me at all.

I can't even stand to watch the footage they show already with dogs fighting...its sickening. Pitbulls are a wonderful breed until scumbags like them do get a hold of them.
My male:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/cbuckett/IMG_0236.jpg

My female:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/cbuckett/IMG_0247.jpg

Awww, what good dogs! Your male, especially, is precious... and don't mess with that bitch! I see a little grey on her muzzle, is she the male's mother? And where was that shot of your female taken, Ibuden? The background is just gorgeous...

And I'll be the first to agree that Pits are sweet, fiercely loyal dogs when they're not mistreated; I've known several folks over the years who had them as pets (including our current behind-the house neighbor; his female and her grown pup come up to see me every time I'm in the back yard and are quite affectionate) but my favorite was one that belonged to a neighbor back in North Texas, another female (and later her male puppy) who used to make the 'rounds' of the neighborhood (trotting down the street with that relaxed and yet very ready posture of theirs) nearly every day. She disappeared for a while and then reappeared a few months later with a pup in tow, young enough to still be making playful lunges for her nannies as she went through her route; he was still accompanying her on her rounds when we moved out of the area several months later. I never saw her bark at or bother anyone, but she always seemed to have that intensity and sense of *purpose* that you so often find in Pits (and in our Australian Cattle Dog bitch as well, who never attacked anyone, but was *very* territorial about both our property and my ex-husband in particular).

Dog fighting relies on cruelty and a malicious twisting of canine instincts even under the most humane of circumstances; but there can be no disputing that what Vick and his compatriots did went far beyond that and showed a willful contempt for the life of the poor creatures that ended up in their hands. I really do hope they throw the book at them - I'm with Kanyli with regard to that first cartoon, if there were any justice in the world...

Regards,
Nydia

Good looking dogs, but I have to ask what happened to the front left leg of your male dog?

Nydia:
They are unrelated. The male is actually 10 and the female is 5 we think. I rescued her from a Pitbull rescue organization about 4 years ago and at the time they said she was 1.5 aprox.
The place I took the picture at was at Presque Isle, Wisconsin. I've been going there for as long as I live, had a recent 10 day vacation there.

Taleren:
That was a scar from when he almost died on me 3 years ago. He came down with what they call K-9 Addisons disease which is very costly to treat (about $120 a month for the rest of his life for a monthly shot of DOCP) and very deadly if not diagnosed. The scar is from when they tried repeatedly to get an IVY going in his leg and the veins would collapse, they ended up stuffing a tube into his jugular and taking shifts with vet techs holding in place while he got fluids till he was stable. It just never healed from when it was shaved, sliced open. I love that dog more than anything and hes cost me dearly $$$$.

That sucks :(

Nydia, most of Wisconsin and a good part of Minnesota mirror that wonderful background where Ibudin took that shot; it truly is a beautiful region in which to live, most of the year.

There are many maligned breeds: Rotts, Pits, Dobies, etc. Personally, I have always loved Dobermans, and even was lucky enough to once have owned a blue. People's ideas and opinions about breeds is often dictated by the media, with the varied movies and televison programs that have "vicious" dogs often being what people remember first when they see a specific dog; i.e., Dobermans are vicious guard dogs and Collies (Lassie) are wonderful, friendly animals.

I trust a Doberman way more than I would trust a Collie. /shrug

Those are some really good looking dogs, btw, Ibudin.


(BTW, the dog in my avatar with my son lying on him was a german shepherd/russian wolfhound mix, the result of a neighbor not leashing their wolfhound. It always amazes me the emotional connection photos of pets have; my avatar pic is 19 years old, and still tugs at family members when they see it)

Beautiful dogs!
I'd much rather see wonderful pictures and stories like this than the shit they keep rolling on the news.

Attached are my pets :D Not pictured is the teenager's mutt a border collie/sheltie mix whom I don't have any pics of at work.

So 2 dogs and 3 cats; they let us live with them.

That black cat is damn cool looking.

I don't have a picture of our two cats here at work but here's a picture of my 'pet' with my parents new puppy.

That black cat is damn cool looking.

She's still a kitten and quite the ball of hell. She turns 1yr next month (sometime don't know exact b/c she was stray). She has more personality than any cat I've ever had and that is how she lays (like superman haha). That scarf? She has fetish and sucks on it and drags it all over the place in fact she has two and she alternates. When she wants to pet she will come to you with the scarf hanging in her mouth and she puts her front paws on your leg.


Tal--
The puppy looks jealous of the water lol.

The three most vicious, fucked up dogs I've ever encountered were, in order:

1. A german shepherd with brain damage which bit me when I was about 4. You can still see the scar. The fucktard who owned it swore it was a good dog until it tore off his son's ear. I laughed and laughed.
2. A dalmation that was overbred or retarded or something. Sucker would try to bite cars, people, other dogs, whatever and could easily jump over the fence it was kept behind. I had to kick it hard when it lunged at me once, and I was told that it had to be put down not long after I moved out of that area.
3. A shelty type mini-collie. This dog was also insane due to overbreeding. Its hips would pop out or whatever it was, too, so if it went after you all you had to do was run a bit and it would slow down before long.

Vick now being sued (http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/riches_jonathan_file.pdf) for "63,000,000,000 billion dollars." I knew that microwave testing would eventually cost him.

My father sent this to me yesterday. I haven't verified its authenticity, but if true, I wonder how the Virginia Beach SPCA has to be feeling about that 'rescue' (not to mention the publicity) about now... ;)

Regards,
Nydia

http://www.snopes.com/photos/advertisements/michaelvick.asp

I almost wanted it to be true, in the hopes it'd cause a small mob to just go after Vick and get this mess over with.

HaHa...a radio station here was asking its' listeners if anyone had a Michael Vick jersey they'd be willing to give to them so one of the DJs could wear it down the street in Harrisburg and see what happens. It would have been amusing too bad they didn't get any bites.

too bad they didn't get any bites.

*groans*

Maybe they should have 2 dogs play "Tug-o-war" with the jersey?

LOL

haha.

PSIA
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/dogood_bucket/vick.jpg

Well, he pled guilty. Wonder how much prison time he'll get.

The St Paul Saints minor league baseball team is having a Michael Vick chew-toy give-a-way promotion tomorrow night. Am almost tempted to go and grab one, but driving around the Twin Cities right now is just too stressful.

Because of the bridge?

Because of the bridge?

Yes, and the related construction work going expanding other routes to accomodate traffic, along with the normal summer construction. It is truly a madhouse.

He pled guilty federally and should get around 12 months. The state DA is gonna hand it to him, however, and today the commissioner suspended him without pay indefinitely from football.

We did a neat piece today that'll air on Sunday on ESPN about what the people in Newport News think of the whole thing. And we'll be covering the trial Monday and have a piece air during their Monday Night Football game.