I see the Poles were tipped off to the location of a buried bunker containing 17 more rockets, some armed with cyclosarin, others with mustard gas. It seems the terrorists were offering $5000 on the black market to buy them and someone decided it was better to turn them in to the Poles.

Makes you wonder how many more are out there buried somewhere.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3861197.stm

link?

Here:

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=540453&section=news

I'm sorry but that can't be right. There are no WoMD in Iraq. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I'm sorry but that can't be right. There are no WoMD in Iraq.I feel a Polish joke coming on...

$5,000 seems kind of cheap for a 'weapon of mass destruction.'

thanks for the links :)

Just as I've said many times, it's all buried somewhere.

In all honesty I will feel tons better if they do find a significant # of weapons. It will go a huge way in adding credibility to this war.

As a bit of an aside, I thought Wilf Blitzers reaction to an expert in chemical warfare, was priceless. The last time a couple of shells that could have possibly contained sarryn gas were found, Wilf asked if they did turn out to in fact have the gas in the how many people could this weapon of mass destruction potentially kill. The answer was 3-6 possibly as many as 12 depending on how close the people were to each other. You could almost see the wind get sucked out of his sails.

I also thought there was a polish joke in this thread somewhere. :)

And without further ado...

Two Poles walk into the post office and the first thing that catches their eye is a bunch of "Wanted" posters, in particular a shot of a mean-looking black guy beneath a banner that says "Wanted for Rape."

"You know," said one Pole to his friend, "they get all the good jobs."

Loelz!

There Are No Womd In Iraq!

Just to be clear, it looks like the $5000 each was what the militants were offering, not what the Poles paid for them. That sum was not mentioned anywhere I saw, but I bet is was more than 5K.

I'm surprised Halo hasn't been here yet

He wouldn't touch those articles even with Kivorns dick. He knows there will only be more discoveries and more information leaked. Saddams WoMD program may not be what we thought but it's there non the less.

So, does this justify the complete bungling of diplomatic relations?

Like Ive said over and over.. Maybe war WAS inevitable. Maybe there was a good justification, thats why I supported it back then.
But failure of leadership by the Bush Administration and the apparent need by them to capitalize on political will created by 9/11 underscores the point.
We were rushed into Iraq, not because of some clear, present and immediate danger, but because the Administration felt they had a window of opportunity in regards to public sentiment.
Could invading Iraq have stood on its own merits? I think so. But it would have taken a strong leader to do the right thing for the right reasons.
Instead of the well planned, well orchestrated, well thought out operation from invasion to reconstruction to the creation of a viable democracy in the Middle East, we got this half assed hack job where they are making shit up as they go along and patching shit up with duct tape in the prayer that it doesnt go Kaa-blooey before the election.

If you are going to do something, do it right.
Everyone deserves better than what Bush has delivered.

So says you.

'I'm surprised Halo hasn't been here yet'

- And say what?
Read your own article.

"Beyond doubt these are shells from the 1980-1988 period"

"Some of those warheads were old but it could not be ruled out some could still be used"

The justification for war on Iraq was because of WoMD programmes, producing stockpiles of WoMD, and for Iraq's support of Al-Qaede.

What, possibly, is there for me to explain, that would provoke a reaction from you other than "WTF BUT THESE 20 YR OLD ROCKETS BURRIED UNDER GROUND MAKES EVERYTHING OK BUSH RULES I LOVE HIS PENIS"?

I think you are going to find out the majority of Americans are going to agree with me.
Hey, most people in the country voted for someone else last election.

the only thing he has is the hope that people believe that he is the only person that can fight the "evil-do'ers". Thus the silly campaign button you posted.
There really is nothing else.

I can't think of one thing he has done or implemented that can be considered a success.
War in Iraq?
Fuck, who knows.. maybe, maybe not... its a crapshoot at this point.

War on Terror?
Al-Queda still a very viable threat with operational capabilities and enhanced recruiting. And the courts keep throwing out the tools he wants to use. Dumb constitution.

NCLB?
Unfunded Mandates. sweet.

Economy?
Still making up ground he lost. Even by the most generous viewpoints.. a push, at best.

National Debt?
Do we even want to talk about that?

Middle East Peace Process?
Remember "The Road Map to Peace"?
Shambles... a fucking joke.

Give me a reason why this guy deserves to get another shot at it?
Because hes a conservative?

Economy: ground he lost? You're kidding right? Exactly when did the economy turn? Oh that's right about the last year of Clintons abismal tenure. Don't know about you but Bush's economy plans have brought this country back up. But being the neo-socialist you only see the bad side. Pessimism at it's finest. You know if you don't want your tax cuts/refunds you can always mail 'em to me.

neo-socialist

lol

thats pretty funny actually
one of my students called me a heartless capitalist today

Whether you approve of Bush's actions or not, you're better off switching presidents regardless. It'd quell both the domestic and foreign shitstorm.

As for the WoMD, they're a moot point today. The US failed at producing the results they promised when they bulldozered all across international politics, burning bridges and tossing ultimatums to the left and right. Your international relations are today shredded. Bush is not the right man to repair them. Your internal crisis requires a diplomat, not a gunslinger. Bush probably isn't the right man to mend that either. The only thing Bush can do is widen both internal and external ideological chasms.

lol

thats pretty funny actually
one of my students called me a heartless capitalist today
HOLY COW! LOL

Why are we all still holding out hope when Bush himself said that he used bad intelligence and that the weapons programs he attacked over didnt really exsist?

Then you all cry it wasnt the weapons but Al Queda. Well for anyone who can read and write that link has been crushed for a long time. Find Bin Laden, hold him accountable and maybe I will care.

You all are going to make me break my mouse buttons having to refresh all the time for new replies!

Whether you approve of Bush's actions or not, you're better off switching presidents regardless. It'd quell both the domestic and foreign shitstorm.

As for the WoMD, they're a moot point today. The US failed at producing the results they promised when they bulldozered all across international politics, burning bridges and tossing ultimatums to the left and right. Your international relations are today shredded. Bush is not the right man to repair them. Your internal crisis requires a diplomat, not a gunslinger. Bush probably isn't the right man to mend that either. The only thing Bush can do is widen both internal and external ideological chasms.
So we should elect a new president to appease the Euros? And now that Womds are being discovered they are "moot".

The emoticon does not exist to convey the laughter and anger I feel.

What possible difference do you think finding even a nuclear reactor beneat baghdad would make when it comes to international politics?

Do you honestly think Bush would be celebrated as some sort of savior? He's burned too many bridges for that. He's steamrolled over too many people. It'd change nothing. Nothing at all. Just like these shells change absolutely nothing.

See it doesn't matter if George W Bush was right anymore. All that matters are the consequences of his actions. People are ungrateful that way, but as the saying goes; "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".

And no, you should not elect a president to "appease the euros". You should elect one that doesn't constantly piss oil on the fire, domestically as well as internationally. Maybe you don't think international relations are worth maintaining? That's fine by me. We'll just take our little IKEA, pack it up, and go home, and you probably won't miss us. International relations are there for a reason. For two or more countries to benefit from eachother under amicable terms.

Bush is simply incapapable of maintaining such terms due to his past actions and his attitude towards foreign politics. It's like the concept of "international relations" just doesn't exist to him.

As for the WoMD, they're a moot point today
That is the most ignorant thing I have possible read. Ok so by your logic we should stop looking for them because it doesn't matter anymore? Ya maybe your right ..fuck it let em blow those shit bombs off in your back yard. All things aside Bush, US, prison abuse BS...everything...you do not want those types of weapons in the religious fanatics hands that are over Iraq now. Maybe you do..but I sure dont want to read that one was blown off in Paris, London, <insert Mr Kivorns home>.

You seem confused by what I'm talking about here.

Do WoMDs need to be hounded down across the world and destroyed? Yes. Including Russia's, France's, China's and yours. All WoMDs should be destroyed.

Should you stop searching for them in iraq? Of course not. That'd be dumb. We're there, we should search. I've never said finding and disposing of chemical, nuclear and biological weapons should stop.

What I'm saying is that politically it doesn't matter anymore. It won't affect anything on the level of global politics.

This is when Crist0 comes in and tells you that Bush is good and you are stupid.

Ill admit I dont give a crap about foreign relations but what I do give a crap about is being lied to. He told us a lot of stuff and most of it has turned out to be extreme exaggerations or totally false. This doesnt make for presidential confidence.

Bush is a bad republican. Yes he is. All you "republican for life" people need to acknowledge this. He wants a constitutional amendment for issues that should be the domain of the states. He wants Federal Governmental powers well beyond what "Small government" should have. So he lowered taxes... great he acted like a republican for 1 out of 10 decisions. Why are all you republican Dittoheads not smelling the gasoline here? Why are you so anxious to throw in with a man who constantly acts like a "Big Government" activist.

I am willing to bet that if piles of WMD continue to be discoverd it will help Bush politically. Even though taking out Saddam and making an example of him is enough to justify the whole Iraq situation discovering WMD only lends unneeded evidence to support the whole thing....


With that said, For some reason the most recent pictures of Saddam remind me of Fred Sandford (redd foxx) from the old TV show "Sanford and Son". Anyone else see that? I keep waiting for him to grab his chest and yell " This is the big one , Elizibeth!".

I guess from what the US troops guarding him have said he has taken to a work out hobby..LOL works out heavy 2 - 3 times a day in his cell...

Even though taking out Saddam and making an example of him is enough to justify the whole Iraq situation discovering WMD only lends unneeded evidence to support the whole thing....
What is he an example of that we are sending a message about? Obviously building WMD isnt it cause Korea has done that and threatened us with them ... which makes him being a "threat" a mute point as well. Ties to Al-Queda? Well thats clearly not true. Torturing his own people is bad? Other countries continue to do this and we arent even considering invading them. hmmm interesting comment.

This is when Crist0 comes in and tells you that Bush is good and you are stupid.

Actually this is where I come in, laugh, and think back to that thread I think Faust started waaaaaaay the fuck back before all of this started asking what would happen if after the coalition went in they found WoMD.

I think everyone who said the Euros/Bowlers etc would say it doesn't matter earned an attaboy.


Everyone deserves better than what Bush has delivered


There is no change, there is no growth, there is only dogma.

Well, it's amusing to me anyway.

HOLY COW! LOL

That really is the funny part. The people on this board have as much insight into my personal political beliefs as my students do. Ive been called a conservative facist and a knee jerk liberal on these boards. Thats the way I like it.
Whatever side seems weaker atm, thats the side im going to argue from. This board has a few very outspoken conservatives, so naturally I jump to the liberal bend. If it ever swings back the other way, Ill argue from conservative viewpoint.
Why?
remember L2's law
We learn 5% of what we read
We learn 95% of what we teach.

Who knows, maybe its the Red Sox fan in me. I naturally root for the underdog and I am a natural dissenter. The creation of healthy conflict is a good thing. The energy created from passionate discourse enables the flow of ideas and thoughts and I really really like that. I want my classes to be like this. But controlled, without the personal attacks, but with the passion. And Ill take the weaker side there are well, and Ill argue from whatever it is.
Because in the end, that doesnt matter.
What matters is between me and the ballot box

Kiv,

I'm sorry old friend but if you think we'd be better off by switching presidents alone yer up in the night. Obviously you've not studied John Kerry's voting record or his personal hijinks.

Now, if there was a great alternative to Bush perhaps you'd be right. But Kerry was the best the Left could come up with. ;(

<----Been aware of L2's arguing tactics for along time now ;P

Fandros

there is a newsupdate about this nervegas shells

Poles find no chemicals in Iraq warheads

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/nation/9073507.htm?1c

Really?

I'm not seeing that reported on any major news sites so far, and your link didn't work...

My source says they did find the warheads with chemicals in, but that...

...the US military said the agent was so deteriorated it posed no threat.



Gen Dukaczewski was commenting on last month's recovery by Polish troops of 17 warheads for a 1980s Soviet-era rocket system.

[www.bbc.co.uk/news]


Oh noz, the stockpiles produced from WOMD programmes barely a couple of years ago seem VERY dangerous. I'm glad we invaded.

http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php?clid=8&theme=&usrsess=1&id=47434

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2001971485_iraqdig03.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24403-2004Jul2.html

Not that it matters..