I wrote this email to SOE and I thought I would share it with the Aro community, I have done some editing from the original, but the message is the same:

“It is apparent EQ's target audience is the uber guilds that raid 4 to 6 days a week. And I can believe that most of the employees that work for Everquest fall into this category also. If you can, I would really be interested in the percent of paying Everquest customers that are flagged for the elemental planes on the date that LDoN came out. Basically I would like to know the percent that has not seen half of the last expansion by time the next one came out. This is not one or two zones you had to run around and get keyed up for, this is half of what we are paying for.

And by the way, the raid function in LDoN is useless to the casual guild. In our guild, most are level 58 to 65. But a good number are level 55 to 57, and who wants to tell 20% of their guild, "sorry we are planning a fun event, and you can't join us." Plus, what I know about the LDoN raids so far is from various reports, they are saying ‘it’s so difficult that unless you are Vex Thal +, so don't even bother.'

Since the new Raid Adventures in the LDoN seems aimed at the top guilds on the servers, maybe SOE could make some changes to the old world zones to benefit the mid-sized guilds. Here is just one idea I had. If a character is flagged/keyed for the elemental zones, and have 100 or more great named mobs that they can kill, then targets like Tormax, and the dragons in Velous become untargetable for them. So the rest of us do not have to compete with them. Right now, uber guilds take two groups, kill Tormax for fun of it or to farm items for their alts, which they have camped right there.

I guess I'm saying give us something, the casual guilds that raid 2 to 3 days a week are getting left by the sidelines, forgotten, left to pick up the road kill. Since SOE is just leaving the older world stuff for the casual player and focusing on the power gamers, how about truly giving it to us. SOE is creating all the new zones for the hard-core players, why not give us the old ones!”

That’s it the way I see it, and from the few people I have talked to they see it the same way. Also I would like to say I’m speaking as an individual, NOT as a representative of Valiant Crusaders.

Udabut,

You make me tingle *swoon*


but seriously, you have some good points there, but will sony do anything.. doubt it :/

I support ya!

Yes, LDoN raids are aimed at the high end.

The rest of the content seems heavily aimed at the lower end. There is very little advantage to having raided before for LDoN single-group adventures. They cannot deny you your content.

“It is apparent EQ's target audience is the uber guilds that raid 4 to 6 days a week. And I can believe that most of the employees that work for Everquest fall into this category also. If you can, I would really be interested in the percent of paying Everquest customers that are flagged for the elemental planes on the date that LDoN came out. Basically I would like to know the percent that has not seen half of the last expansion by time the next one came out. This is not one or two zones you had to run around and get keyed up for, this is half of what we are paying for.

Single-groupable/free flag full-sized zones:
Tactics
Storms
Valor
NightmareA
Desease
Innovation
Thunder
HoHa
CoD
PoJ
total: 10

Full sized zones that require VT and above raiding guilds:
SolRo
Earth
Fire
Air
Water
Time
Total: 6

Small zones that require raiding guilds:
HoHb
NightmareB
EarthB
Total: 3

That's less than half. Had you complained before they made mid-end guild flags worthless, you may have had a point.

Since the new Raid Adventures in the LDoN seems aimed at the top guilds on the servers, maybe SOE could make some changes to the old world zones to benefit the mid-sized guilds. Here is just one idea I had. If a character is flagged/keyed for the elemental zones, and have 100 or more great named mobs that they can kill, then targets like Tormax, and the dragons in Velous become untargetable for them. So the rest of us do not have to compete with them. Right now, uber guilds take two groups, kill Tormax for fun of it or to farm items for their alts, which they have camped right there.

Strange, I haven't heard this was a problem. Are most Tormax kills done by two uber guild groups?

What you are proposing is punishing people for advancing. It isn't very polite, and in case you never noticed, people object to it quite strongly.

It is apparent EQ's target audience is the uber guilds that raid 4 to 6 days a week.It's quite simple.

When a player (JimmyHardCore) consumes all content, more needs to be created to retain his/her subscription. That, IMO is the primary reason for more expansions.

Add in the little toys for all the non-hardcore people and raiders alike (EVERYONE loves dyes, PoK books, bankspace, etc) and 90% of the population ends up handing over their cash.

JimmyHardCore take up more bandwidth and development resources than JoeBobCasual who has been playing for 4 years, is level 52 and kills bats in solb one night every 2 weeks.

Jimmy and JoeBob are probably equally represented in terms of expansion purchase and subscription fees.

SoE doesn't need to do a darn thing to keep 90% of the JoeBob's subscribing and buying new expansions.

SoE needs to work their asses off to keep Jimmy subscribing and buying new expansions.

Hail, the almighty dollar.

But you know what? JoeBob still has a fun game to play.

You sound like a JoeBob jealous of Jimmy's toys who won't put forth the effort to get them, so you whine to SoE instead.

I think my lvl 44 Paladin twink is about to have fun raiding for the first time.

I think you're underestimating the number of guilds out there that are at a level where Tormax is a prime target. You're not losing him to the top end guilds. They're too busy to consider mobs like Tormax unless it's at the end of the night, and nobody else has bothered with him.

If you truly want mobs like this, you have to work for it. There will always be other guilds on the rise, that desire his loot. He's not going to just fall into your lap every week. If you're really that much of a casual player, you need to consider the fact that some things in this game will just not happen for you.

I have many friends who have been in this game from the start, are not in the really driven guilds, and they still find many reasons to log on each night. I think all things considered, Sony has done a pretty good job of trying to appease as many styles of players as they can. It sounds like you want to kill/see everything in the game, without having to do what that takes.

Laeyakk, I stand corrected, non-raiding guild can only see 10 of the 19 zones not half.

You sound like a JoeBob jealous of Jimmy's toys who won't put forth the effort to get them, so you whine to SoE instead.

Nope have the toys I want, yes better would be nice but not necessary.

It sounds like you want to kill/see everything in the game, without having to do what that takes.

Yes you are right, I don’t want to do what it takes, I don’t want to leave my friends and my guild. I have only been in two guilds in the 3 years I have been playing, and I want it to stay that way.

And no, you are wrong I don't want to kill/see everything. I just want to raid with my guild when we want to, and find something interesting to kill. My hope was the raiding part of LDoN would let us do that when we couldn’t find anything up, I was wrong there.

No I’m not an uber toon, only level 65 SK Ogre with 36 AA’s. Not what the top guilds would take, but I’m sure if I wanted to, I could find a guild in the plane's, or just about there, that would take me. I know that is an option, and one most people take to "do what it takes." as Bodak said. But it’s not an option for me.

Forgot

They're too busy to consider mobs like Tormax unless it's at the end of the night, and nobody else has bothered with him.

You are right the last two server resets they have been there between 3pm and 5pm est before they start raiding. We have trackers in Keal, and we can see 14 members of X guild enter the zone and not too long after that he is dead.

If you have guildmembers who marched on to 65 while the rest of the guild languished at 55-57, then those people at 65 are the ones to blame, they could easily have spent that exp in aa so as to keep the guild at a cohesive set of level.

Clearly you should dump your level 65s and send them off to more hardcore guilds since they don't have the self discipline to curtail their own advancement for the enjoyment of those in the guild who play less. That way, on the one hour a week that your 55-57th level friends play, everyone left can all raid together in LDoN, just like you want to.

there should be that kind of level restriction to begin with.

VC has an awesome, well rounded group of individuals, that are capiable of doing alot more then they currently do.

VC could do LDON raids, i whole heartedly believe this. But sony doesnt want to give guilds like theirs a chance to do so.

Id like to see what sony has to say regarding the level restriction for LDON dungeon raids :/ its just plain mean

Just wait.

4 years ago only ubers could kill Vox/Naggy
Now nearly anyone can

3 years ago only ubers could kill VS/Trak
Now nearly anyone can

2 years ago only ubers could clear NToV
Now nearly anyone can

a year ago only ubers could clear VT

As EQ progresses, shit becomes easier and easier so that the 'casual' player can experience the content for themselves.

The -only- thing I have a problem with is the switch and bait method that EQ has been plauged with since day 1. The 'top-dog' guild atop each server rapes new content. By the time the second/third/fourth guilds begin to catch up, it's nerfed/changed/bugs finally worked out/etc...

Read: NToV safespot nerfed, Vulak nerfed, Kinu crashing VT every...I mean...VT's instability causing it to crash nearly every day after Aten was killed fixed, BoT opened to everyone and their sister, Etc...

i think LDoN only have 3 zones on the hardest setting that will offer anything for elemental or higher guilds.

LDoN offers something for everyone over level 20, and it is spread out pretty even.

when it should realy be set up for mainly for 60-65 exp groups... BoT is packed alot it is 62-65. yet most low level zones are empty.


LDoN wont offer a lot for high end guilds, most of the items they will allready have better, so now all high end guilds get are aguments out of LDoN and they dont need it progress anymore in everquest. it will be toys

LDoN is not a progression expantion, it is sony's answer for droping number of accounts because people are board.

All of the content from releases past is the raid content you asked for. Instead of continually tuning up old content (they've done it a little, but in terms of raid content not very much), they keep adding new stuff at the end of the rainbow. Want to do Eplanar/LDON raids? Do the progression. As it is you have it 1000% times easier than the trailblazers because 1) there are detailed guides about these encounters that are so intimate that you can find out what color underwear the Dain is wearing before you ever have to engage him, and 2) parts of the progression that were considered "vital" before are far less important and can be skipped on the way up now. That's ignoring the obvious benefits of being able to throw new world spells (which are basically available to all who are of level), new world weapons, not to mention higher damage tables, better resist rates due to level, etc etc etc.
If you want to make it through the progression, progress. If you want to "see it all" without putting in the time to get there, try an emu or a game with better cheat codes.

Anyone in my guild who has LDON seems to love it. I haven't purchased it yet..don't know that I will for the only time I really play is during raid times. I think several groups made up of guild mates already completed the tuff 1 group dungeon crawls with the 900 hitters..and that was on the first day.


Ibudin

If you want to make it through the progression, progress. If you want to "see it all" without putting in the time to get there,

Didn't I just answer that question?

And Gwindor I think you are missing the point, and I don't feel like re-typing it, because you don't want to read past the first post.

I have to admit that I'm a bit frustrated with the LDoN level restrictions on groups also. Faervas and I went and did an event with some level 65 friends last night, while a guild group in the 52-57 range did a different one; both groups had a decent time, but it *is* frustrating that we can't all go out together, as we might do to places like Droga and Hatesfury.

All in all I'm very pleased with the Droga/Nurga revamp, and the new temp zone Sol C. Our mains currently range from 48-65, and we do like to be able to do things *as a guild*. Maniacles, I hope you were being sarcastic when you said that family guilds should 'ship their 65s off to raiding guilds...' - most, if not all, of the 'family style' guilds on the server have wide level spreads and even though we now have three 65s in our little guild, none of us have the slightest desire to be any place but where we are - with our friends. I *do* like that the new content will enable us to do new things with some of our 'more uberguild' friends (at least, until they get their spells or whatever they want from them, and sate their curiosity), but it would have been nice if they had been a little more permissive with the raid content re level spread, since they're designed for 36 people. Why shouldn't, for example, there be some way that we, CoFE, and some of our friends from KILL or The Far Eastwood or Divine Legion (wide level spread guilds all) get 36 folks together and at least be able to *do* a raid?
My complaint is not that the raids are hard (they should be), but that you have to dig up 36 people within a tight level spread in order to do one, something that simply leaves a lot of smaller or sub 65 guilds, even if they throw a coalition together, out in the cold.

I plan on spending a fair amount of time in LDoN, as I'd like to able to buy my spells. It seems a shame that this will leave me no choice but to be separated from my guild for weeks while doing it (the new color stun is 650 or some such adventure points)...

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

haha. sorry thought it was funny that you assumed SoE employees fall under the hardcore heading. that was funny.

if you want targets handed to you then you are in the wrong game. if you cant see the competition built into EQ then you are gonna be frustrated. whether its tormax or NG in seb, there will always be other people willing to do what it takes to have their fun. this is how the game works. its how its been from the begining. why is it such a problem now?

i hear petitioning works wonders. next time you see dashmoo on, send her a tell and find out how it works.

a year ago only ubers could clear VT

And 2 years from now we still wont be in VT, for the same reason we dont do (but easily could) Veeshans Peak: The amount of work it would take to get those interested in seeing those zones is offset by the ability to get comparable rewards in other zones (particularly in whatever expansions follow) for significantly less time effort. So, its likely that by the time everyone else is done camping emperor on pop that we wouldnt want to waste the time camping shards to go to VT anyway =)

Hell, thats even if we're still in EQ1.0.

I'm right there with Uda, VC is my home and ever shall it be so. That choice limits me in the raid targets that I will see, and that is a tradeoff that I feel that I definitly get the better part of the bargain on. Other players (like Zark for example) will choose differently.

VC can always summon 18-36 people on a given raid night and a LDON style raid would guarantee us a target worth pursuing. Often times when we switch out of casual mode into raid mode there isnt much of interest for us to pursue. This is where LDON raids would have been a perfect 'second option' for us. It just would have been nice for Verant to be a little more forthcoming on how restrictive the Raid content in LDON was going to be instead of getting out hopes up, and dollars spent. Other than this quibble I can honestly say LDON is great so far and a tremendous boon to our guild.

Kad

Strange, I haven't heard this was a problem. Are most Tormax kills done by two uber guild groups?

Yes.

There's been plenty of grumbling in our own /guildsay about top tier guilds 'slumming' (i.e. killing Tormax (specifically) and other old content targets) so they could "sell the loot in the bazaar".

Udabut's solution of making mobs untargetable once your guild reaches a certain point wouldn't work - it would be very easy to get around it. It would be nice though to find some way to allow mid-level guilds and up-and-coming guilds to not have to compete with higher level guilds who are 'slumming'. Don't know how you'd do it though.

This post never would have happened if the level restriction on raiding in LDoN were not there.

As far as competition is concerned, Everquest put a 52 level cap restriction on killing Vox/Nag because they knew what would have happened. It would be too easy of a kill for the top guilds, and no one of the appropriate level would have ever seen them up. Or is the 52 level cap there for some other reason I’m unaware of? If it is there so the appropriate levels can kill them, to be consistent, should Everquest take the level 52 cap off of Vox/Nag in the name of competition, or maybe look at extending that logic to Velious?

so they could "sell the loot in the bazaar".

Samething was being said of the Manaburn teams, and look what happened there. While I think Verants heavy handed nerfage of that situation was out of line, it is definitly a problem at all levels for guilds 'slumming' as Gnevic so eloquently puts it. Whether that slumming is for gear for new members, alts, or to sell in the bazaar doesnt matter.

It seems that whomever has the best calendar wins in cases like these =)

Kad

2 years ago only ubers could clear NToV,now nearly anyone can

If you say so genious

>If you say so genious

Ah, the irony.

You got picked on at school didn`t you ?

Yeah,thought so...

Tell us, is 6th grade any better for you the third time around?

You probably don't even understand the irony behind your original comment. Oh well.

half of the last expansion by time the next one came out


Just to point out a small flaw in your email, LoY was the last expansion..PoP is 2 expansions back.

LoY doesnt count as an expansion. For the people in the high end it meant 3 things: A bigger bank, a new race to make an alt and PL to the 50s and quit in most cases, and a charm slot. Some people came out of it with a spell as well.

Could someone be a nice guy and buy aesahaetr a clue, and a copy of Shadows of Luclin?

Qaman.. your trying to talk logic to a person whos chosen name comes out as "asshat" when said aloud...