Has anyone else noticed the ridiculous officiating in the NBA finals so far?

I sit there furious as the Lakers are getting the chance stripped from them, as the Ref's give every call possible to the Celtics, and hold their tongues as the Lakers get hacked to hell.

Powe 13 free throws in 14 minutes gametime last night. Lakers 10 for the team for the entire game. That says it all.

Exactly... I am glad Kobe got in the Ref's face and got that Technical. The MVP and his team are being screwed.

Celtics did do a better job at drawing fouls, they played physical ball and the lakers didnt do anything about it.

Yes the officiating was bad, but i couldnt be happier...i hate Kobe..The Truth > The MVP

Celtics did do a better job at drawing fouls, they played physical ball and the lakers didnt do anything about it.

Yes the officiating was bad, but i couldnt be happier...i hate Kobe..The Truth > The MVP

Kobe is the best player in the NBA today, and he doesn't deserve ref's with an agenda calling his games.

Its been that way the entire playoffs for all teams. As of the second round I remember a stat saying that 1 out of 20 games was won by the road team. Each game is worth many millions of dollars to all people involved. When a series goes 4 games, thats 3 games worth of lost money. Whats the easy way to guarantee a series goes a full 7 games? Thats right make sure the home team wins. Money > sportsmanship and fair competition.

Six minutes left in the 3rd quarter, Kobe was shooting 2 free throws. They were number 3 and number 4 for the entire team up to that point. Boston had already shot 26....

Kobe is the best player in the NBA today, and he doesn't deserve ref's with an agenda calling his games.

That is a very arguable fact, much like him winning the MVP.

I think Kobe winning the MVP this year is far more arguable than him being the best player in the world right now.

Kobe is in a league of his own. I don't think there is another player in the league that has his talent and drive. He strives to be the best and it rubs off on his teamates.

Kobe is the closest thing you have to Jordan in the NBA, and he is arguably better then Jordan was, as Jordan played a different game then the rest of the league. A game that is far more common now.

His attitude is born on a desire to be the best. He is the guy first at practice and last to leave. He loves basketball and it shows. Kobe Bryant is the best all around player in the NBA, especially if you consider his age in relation to other stars.

Regardless how you feel about Kobe, he does not deserve to have a title stolen from him by the Referee's.

Kobe is in a league of his own. I don't think there is another player in the league that has his talent and drive. He strives to be the best and it rubs off on his teamates.

Kobe is the closest thing you have to Jordan in the NBA, and he is arguably better then Jordan was, as Jordan played a different game then the rest of the league. A game that is far more common now.

His attitude is born on a desire to be the best. He is the guy first at practice and last to leave. He loves basketball and it shows. Kobe Bryant is the best all around player in the NBA, especially if you consider his age in relation to other stars.

Regardless how you feel about Kobe, he does not deserve to have a title stolen from him by the Referee's.

Sorry took me a while to catch my breath from laughing so hard. So a few points, forgive me for jumping around:

*Jordan redefined the game. The "common" game is because everyone wants to be like Mike. Kobe isnt redifining anything.

*You can sit here and praise him after his bitching, moaning and, fueds with teammates?

*As far as his talent....Paul Pierce, Chris Paul (should of been MVP) come to mind.

*Sorry every player wants to be the best...its how they got to the NBA.

oh and to add...

Game 1 wasnt stolen by the refs, it was carried on the back of Pierce, who will have that story told for YEARS to come.

Paul Pierce is a good player, but to even try to lump him in the same stratosphere talent wise as Kobe is laughable and shows a complete lack of knowledge about the game.

Chris Paul is a good and talented player. He arguably could have been the MVP this year. He's not (at least yet) close to as good of an all around player as Kobe.

As far as everyone wanting it? Derrick Coleman? Glenn Robinson? Etc. There are tons of astronomical talents that enter the NBA that don't have the desire to maximize their talents. The people with the work ethics of Jordan, Kobe, Ray Allen, and a few other extremely hard and devoted workers is not the norm in the NBA. The number of players that have limitless talent AND the work ethic of someone with no talent is even more rare. That's what makes the great ones great. The amount of time, and the competitive spirit of Kobe and Jordan is what sets them apart from their Peers.

Jordan revolutionized the game, and no one will deny that fact. I will never say that Kobe is as good as Jordan. I won't say that he's not as good as Jordan either. Both are very similar players with very similar skill sets with very similar work ethics, but I have a hard time comparing any player from differing eras. LeBron could potentially be a player like Magic Johnson, but is that seriously a fair comparison? The game is so different now. How about comparing Dwight Howard to Hakeem Olajuwon? Similar styles, but really they never will face each other so how can you make real comparisons. The fact remains though, that the closest thing we've ever seen to Jordan is Kobe and the closest thing we've ever seen to Kobe is Jordan.

Kobe just isn't as good of a pitchman, and hasn't been able to hide his demons as well as Jordan (cheated on wife numerous times, compulsive gambling problems, not nice to the casual fan). Jordan was lucky to play when he did. Everyone now is way more skeptical of their stars than 20 years ago. Everyone is always looking for a fault.

Yes I am a Laker fan. I enjoy watching Kobe play, but I hate him. I think he's a jerk, and he will never replace Magic Johnson in my eyes. I love Shaq still, and it still burns me to think Kobe rushed him out of town. None of that diminishes his talent though.

This argument is moot when you consider that the Celtics reside in Boston. If you've been there, or have to spend considerable time around any Boston sports fans, you know exactly what I'm talking about. :)

Go Lakers!

Sorry took me a while to catch my breath from laughing so hard. So a few points, forgive me for jumping around:

*Jordan redefined the game. The "common" game is because everyone wants to be like Mike. Kobe isnt redifining anything.

Kobe Bryant is the best ALL AROUND player in the NBA, he is the closest thing to a Michael Jordan in the NBA, and he didn't have the years of college experience Jordan had. He came right into the NBA out of high school.

*You can sit here and praise him after his bitching, moaning and, fueds with teammates?

He wants to win, and the laker organization was not making the moves necessary to win. Did he go about it the best way? No. I will not diminish his talent because he was pissed off that the organization wasn't taking winning seriously. Look what his bitching accomplished... NBA Finals.

*As far as his talent....Paul Pierce, Chris Paul (should of been MVP) come to mind.

Those are great players, however most will agree that Kobe Bryant is all around a much better player, and deserved the MVP this year for his outstanding work in motivating his team, and losing his selfishness when it comes to scoring. He made a team we didn't expect to make the playoffs into a team that got to the NBA Finals, and still has a chance to win the title.

You can dislike him for his attitude all you want, but denying his status is just born out of being sore with his success.

*Sorry every player wants to be the best...its how they got to the NBA.

Allen Iverson for example, is a great player, but when the lights turn off he has no motivation. He is neither the first at practice or the last to leave. Kobe Bryant loves the game of Basketball as much as players did back in the days where the salary's were not multi million dollar contracts.

There was a whole Sports Illustrated article about Kobe and they spoke with people who have played with him, against him, coached him, and know him. The consensus is that he hates to lose, and is not afraid or ashamed of showing it.

This argument is moot when you consider that the Celtics reside in Boston. If you've been there, or have to spend considerable time around any Boston sports fans, you know exactly what I'm talking about. :)

Go Lakers!

Swear to god the Boston hate is the new cool thing along with Mac's. The 90's Boston teams were ho-humm no one cared about Boston fans/teams, and now that we are winning in 3 different sports....out comes the hate. Anyways....

and losing his selfishness when it comes to scoring

Back to Kobe, i'm sorry you can't erase YEARS of being a prick and being selfish to suddenly ZOMG he is the MVP.

You undo that rediculously lopsided donation of Gasol, the Lakers DO NOT get #1 seed, and DO NOT do nearly as well. You can take any other player off the Hornets and they do just as well because CP3 is the team, he is the definition of MVP.

I hate Kobe, he is one of the many who give pro-athletes a bad name. IMO he is no better than Iverson who bitched and moaned.

Kobe is good, i do not deny that, best all-around player, MVP....sorry can't agree.

The consensus is that he hates to lose, and is not afraid or ashamed of showing it.

Again this is a statement that can be said for MANY PEOPLE, shit i hate to lose and i show it.

You don't have to agree for it to be true :)

so lets use stats...

Kobe vs Chris Paul.

Kobe > Paul in: Points per Game, Rebounds per Game, and Blocks per Game
Paul > Kobe in: Steals per Game*, Assists per Game*, FG%, FT%, 3PT%, Turn Overs, and Fouls.

So out of 10 statistical categories Chris Paul 7, Kobe 3....

*lead the league

so lets use stats...

Kobe vs Chris Paul.

Kobe > Paul in: Points per Game, Rebounds per Game, and Blocks per Game
Paul > Kobe in: Steals per Game, Assists per Game, FG%, FT%, 3PT%, Turn Overs, and Fouls.

So out of 10 statistical categories Chris Paul 7, Kobe 3....

Is this the entire career? or just this year?

And how many game winning, and game changing moments did they have compared to each other... don't even say that doesn't matter.

Stats are just this year. Which if you factor in CP3 is a 2nd year player to Kobe's 11 year

Game winning/changing moments while i do take them into consideration, there is no stat tracking for. CP3 had quite a few AMAZING game winning plays and a few steals that shut down comebacks this year, Kobe has done some amazing scoring on runs and comeback wins....hard to say on that point.

You can't compare assists per game with a point guard to a shooting guard/small forward.

Do you really think John Stockton was better than Jordan? After all, Stockton did average better from the free throw line, had fewer turnovers, had more assists, shot better from 3 point range, had more steals per game, and fewer fouls. Did Stockton ever win a title? Did Paul get past the Spurs?

Do you really want to argue that point? Why also do you not mention that Kobe was first team all defense in the NBA?

You can not agree that he deserved MVP this year, like I said, that's completely debatable. There's absolutely NO DOUBT that he's the best player in the world right now. You just don't like him. I don't like him either, but I know greatness when I see it. All you prove in this thread is you know very little about the game. Even mentioning that Paul Pierce is better than Kobe just shows how little knowledge you have about the game.

Stats are just this year. Which if you factor in CP3 is a 2nd year player to Kobe's 11 year

Well that makes a big difference... Kobe is in his 11th year. You should be more lenient with his stats up against a 2nd year player. Especially when CP3 played college ball, and Kobe did not. Kobe learned the game while playing with the pro's.

Game winning/changing moments while i do take them into consideration, there is no stat tracking for. CP3 had quite a few AMAZING game winning plays and a few steals that shut down comebacks this year, Kobe has done some amazing scoring on runs and comeback wins....hard to say on that point.

Kobe has led the Lakers to many championships since he came out of high school. He was restrained from playing his kind of basketball with Shaq, and now is showing what kind of a player he always was and could have been.

I take nothing from Chris Paul, or Paul Pierce. They are magnificent players and they shine compared to some of their teammates and other NBA stars. However calling one of them a better player then Kobe Bryant, when Kobe has proven his mettle, is laughable.

Well that makes a big difference... Kobe is in his 11th year. You should be more lenient with his stats up against a 2nd year player. Especially when CP3 played college ball, and Kobe did not. Kobe learned the game while playing with the pro's.



Kobe has led the Lakers to many championships since he came out of high school. He was restrained from playing his kind of basketball with Shaq, and now is showing what kind of a player he always was and could have been.

I take nothing from Chris Paul, or Paul Pierce. They are magnificent players and they shine compared to some of their teammates and other NBA stars. However calling one of them a better player then Kobe Bryant, when Kobe has proven his mettle, is laughable.

Errrr he has yet to lead them to a title, make no mistake those were Shaq's teams. Kobe had to constantly be yanked back into team ball. He suffered a horrible case of ballhogitis for along time. It's only the last year or so that he discovered he has help on the court and can actually benefit from passing the rock.

Errrr he has yet to lead them to a title, make no mistake those were Shaq's teams. Kobe had to constantly be yanked back into team ball. He suffered a horrible case of ballhogitis for along time. It's only the last year or so that he discovered he has help on the court and can actually benefit from passing the rock.

Shaq is a joke... and the biggest mistake phoenix has made. He is only good because he is huge. And I guarantee you that without Kobe, those Lakers would not have won championships.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Lakers

Note 2000,2001 and 2002 were their last championships and all were led by Shaq (he was also MVP).

Let's not rewrite sports history as well blast it, Kobe still has to prove himself equal of the glory he's tried to cover himself in since day one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Lakers

Note 2000,2001 and 2002 were their last championships and all were led by Shaq (he was also MVP).

Let's not rewrite sports history as well blast it, Kobe still has to prove himself equal of the glory he's tried to cover himself in since day one.

That is such bullshit

Oh I'm no Shaq fan, the top (bottom?) two players I find to be the most loathesome are Shaq and then Kobe in at number one.

Both are without a doubt two of the most overhyped players in recent history. They led the charge of away from the classy NBA that used to be.

Oh I'm no Shaq fan, the top (bottom?) two players I find to be the most loathesome are Shaq and then Kobe in at number one.

Both are without a doubt two of the most overhyped players in recent history. They led the charge of away from the classy NBA that used to be.

I agree with you about Shaq... But you are totally off base with your accusations of Kobe being overhyped.

Kobe is PLAIN AND SIMPLE the BEST PLAYER in the NBA. Just because you do not like him, it does not diminish his talent, and record as one of the best players of all time.

Kobe Bryant



3-time NBA champion: 2000, 2001, 2002
NBA Most Valuable Player: 2008
2-time scoring champion: 2006, 2007
10-time NBA All-Star: 1998, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008



Has started in each of his appearances
10 consecutive appearances (No All-Star game in 1999 due to league-wide lock-out)



2-time NBA All-Star Game MVP: 2002, 2007
10-time All-NBA Selection:



First Team: 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008
Second Team: 2000, 2001
Third Team: 1999, 2005



8-time All-Defensive Selection:



First Team: 2000, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008
Second Team: 2001, 2002



NBA All-Rookie Second Team: 1997
NBA Slam Dunk Contest champion: 1997
NBA regular season leader in:



points: 2003 (2,461), 2006 (2,832, 7th in NBA history), 2007 (2,430), 2008 (2,323)
points per game: 2006 (35.4, 9th in NBA history), 2007 (31.6)
field goals attempted: 2006 (2,173), 2007 (1,757), 2008 (1,690)
field goals made: 2003 (868), 2006 (978), 2007 (813)
free throws attempted: 2006 (819), 2007 (768)
free throws made: 2006 (696), 2007 (667)



2nd most points in a Game: 81 (January 22 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_22), 2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006) vs. the Toronto Raptors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Raptors))


NBA records

Kobe Bryant holds four and shares five NBA records (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_records):


Most three-point field goals made, one game: 12 (January 7 2003 vs. Seattle SuperSonics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_SuperSonics); shared with Donyell Marshall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donyell_Marshall))
Most three-point field goals made, one half: 8 (March 28 2003 vs. Washington Wizards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Wizards); shared with 6 players).
Most consecutive three-point field goals made, one game: 9 (January 7 2003 vs. Seattle SuperSonics; shared with Latrell Sprewell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latrell_Sprewell) and Ben Gordon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Gordon)).
Most free throws made, one quarter: 14 (3rd quarter, December 20 2005 vs. Dallas Mavericks; shared with 6 players).[/URL]
Most free throws attempted, one quarter: 16 (3rd quarter, December 20 2005 vs. Dallas Mavericks; shared with 6 players).[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe_Bryant#cite_note-ft-47"] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe_Bryant#cite_note-ft-47)
Youngest player to score 15,000 points: (27 Years, 136 days)
Youngest player to score 20,000 points: (29 years, 122 days old), surpassing Wilt Chamberlain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain), the previous holder of the record. Bryant also became one of the only three players to reach the milestone under the age of 30. The other two are Chamberlain (29 years, 134 days old) and Michael Jordan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jordan) (29 years, 326 days old).
Youngest Slam Dunk champion: (18 years, 175 days), after winning the contest at the 1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997-98_NBA_season) NBA All-Star Weekend (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Star_Weekend).
Youngest player to be named to the NBA All-Defensive Team: (1999-00 NBA season (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999-00_NBA_season))
Youngest player to start a game: (18 Years, 158 days)
Gold Medal with Team USA, Tournament of Americas Olympic Qualifiers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas_Championships_2007)
1996 Naismith High School Player of the Year
1996 Gatorade Circle of Champions High School Player of the Year
1996 McDonald's High School All-American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald%27s_High_School_All-American)
1996 USA Today (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_Today) All-USA First Team
1995 Adidas ABCD Camp Senior MVP
Named to the USA Today (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_Today) All-Time All-USA First Team in 2003.
USA Today (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_Today) and PARADE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parade_%28magazine%29)'s 1996 National High School Player of the Year with a seasonal average of 30.8 points, 12.0 rebounds, 6.5 assists, 4.0 steals and 3.9 blocks per game.
Led Lower Merion High School to a 31-3 record, including 27 straight wins, and the PIAA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIAA) Class AAAA state title as a senior. The Aces defeated Erie Cathedral Prep 48-43 to take home the gold (1996).
The all-time leading scorer in Southeastern Pennsylvania school history with 2,883 points.
Had his Lower Merion High School (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Merion_High_School) number 33 retired on January 26, 2002.

Please, there is noway in hell a true basketball fan would ever call Kobe one of the best of all time.

That lil egomaniac couldn't carry Birds, Jordans, Magics, Kareems, Millers etc etc gym bag let alone match game with them.

The Celts will walk with this title and once again Kobe will show he's not possessed of the stuff that is truely awe inspiring.

Hell I still can see Reggie Millers 8 points in 3.8ish seconds back in the day to knock the Knicks (and spike lee's) hair back.

Kobe doesn't inspire, he simply thinks he should be held with high regard.

Hell that kid can't walk in the same gym with the likes of Lebron James imho.

That is such bullshit

"Anger and insults are the common replacement for those with no proof of what they desperately want to believe."-Freud

Sorry, couldn't resist.

___

I dislike Kobe but will certainly agree he is the Lakers right now. If they win, it will be because of him.

But please, leave Jordan out of this. As others have said, he did more with the game of basketball than Kobe could ever hope to do. The difference? Jordan was revolutionary with his position; Kobe excels at his position.

Oh there is noone like Jordan....but remember all the bullshit hype when Kobe was gifted to the league? He's the next Jordan etc etc...

He's still not the player/leader Jordan was and he's at his peak...

Please, there is noway in hell a true basketball fan would ever call Kobe one of the best of all time.

That lil egomaniac couldn't carry Birds, Jordans, Magics, Kareems, Millers etc etc gym bag let alone match game with them.

The Celts will walk with this title and once again Kobe will show he's not possessed of the stuff that is truely awe inspiring.

Hell I still can see Reggie Millers 8 points in 3.8ish seconds back in the day to knock the Knicks (and spike lee's) hair back.

Kobe doesn't inspire, he simply thinks he should be held with high regard.

Hell that kid can't walk in the same gym with the likes of Lebron James imho.

That kid?

You truly know nothing about Basketball... Just like with politics you judge someones worth based on how much you like or dislike them. Kobe is the best player in the NBA, and if you don't like it... Tough. I know it, He knows it, the media knows it, heck... Even Lebron James (http://think2wice.org/2008/04/lebron-nominates-kobe-as-mvp) knows it.

”I’d give it to Kobe,” Lebron says ”What he’s done this whole year, to carry that team to the No. 1 team in the West right now. He’s playing his best basketball all around. I’ve watched him the whole year. I saw it last summer when I played with him with USA Basketball and the sacrifices he’s made for the team and he’s done that with the Lakers.”

Well that makes a big difference... Kobe is in his 11th year. You should be more lenient with his stats up against a 2nd year player. Especially when CP3 played college ball, and Kobe did not. Kobe learned the game while playing with the pro's.

Lol, so if CP did 2 years at wake Forest + 2 years NBA=4 years....Kobe 11 years NBA... math still dont add.

Lol, so if CP did 4 years at wake Forest + 2 years NBA=6 years....Kobe 11 years NBA... math still dont add.

Kobe is an 11th year player... he is a veteran and yet is playing better then he EVER played. You know when people play basketball for 11 years... Unless their name is Michael Jordan, they start to go downhill.

That kid?

You truly know nothing about Basketball... Just like with politics you judge someones worth based on how much you like or dislike them. Kobe is the best player in the NBA, and if you don't like it... Tough. I know it, He knows it, the media knows it, heck... Even Lebron James (http://think2wice.org/2008/04/lebron-nominates-kobe-as-mvp) knows it.

LoL you know it, well just like politics you're inability to reason and propensity to make outlandish claims make you a curious one indeed.

He might be the MVP this year, but unless he wins the title he's not the best team player period.

LoL you know it, well just like politics you're inability to reason and propensity to make outlandish claims make you a curious one indeed.

He might be the MVP this year, but unless he wins the title he's not the best team player period.

Sometimes it takes more then one man to win... The rest of the team has to pull their weight... And the Ref's... They have to stop picking the winners.

True insight...

All the Named players get calls, Lakers have enjoyed more of their share of slanted calls over the years. The 80's series alone were frustrating as hell, tho the games so much more enjoyable than the slick kids of today with their ego's and innate lack of "game"

True insight...

All the Named players get calls, Lakers have enjoyed more of their share of slanted calls over the years. The 80's series alone were frustrating as hell, tho the games so much more enjoyable than the slick kids of today with their ego's and innate lack of "game"

Don't get me wrong... I despise basketball as it is today with all the thugs and stuck up kids playing. However If there is one team I can still watch, it is the Lakers. Showtime is not dead yet.

Don't get me wrong... I despise basketball as it is today with all the thugs and stuck up kids playing. However If there is one team I can still watch, it is the Lakers. Showtime is not dead yet.


/agree

LoL you know it, well just like politics you're inability to reason and propensity to make outlandish claims make you a curious one indeed.

He might be the MVP this year, but unless he wins the title he's not the best team player period.

Jordon was never the best TEAM player either. While Jordon was playing, the best two 'team' players were Magic Johnson and Isiah Thomas. Also, Jordon never won his first title til his 6th season in the NBA, and he never won one until Pippen developed. It takes more than one player to win a title. Just like Gasol was needed this year for Kobe. Just like each player in Boston needed a perfect storm of trades to have a shot this year.

There are so many here that want to poo poo Kobe that have no knowledge of the game. Reggie Miller an all time great? HAHAHAHA. He's a hall of famer, but he's not in the same league as Jordon, Magic, Bird, Bill Russell, Julius Erving, Jerry West, Kobe, Isiah, McHale, etc. Hell, Reggie Miller might not have been the best basketball player in his family. Reggie is the best spot up 3 point shooter in NBA history(of course this dismisses all the people that played before there was a 3 point line. Imagine Jerry West with a 3 point line). He could NOT create his own shot, and he could not play decent defense. Oh but if you left him open...

He’s playing his best basketball all around that is not the same as saying he is the best all around player.

Sometimes it takes more then one man to win... The rest of the team has to pull their weight... And the Ref's... They have to stop picking the winners.

your excuse for games 2 i will give that some validity, what about game 1?

your excuse for games 2 i will give that some validity, what about game 1?

How about 3 losses to the Atlanta Hawks? Every team can play a bad game. No, the Lakers looked absolutely horrible in game one. Kobe took several bad shots. His teammates took several bad shots. No one on the Lakers could rebound at all. No one drove to the basket to create shots/foul attempts. The Celtics played amazing defense, and took an uninspired Lakers team completely out of their game. The Celtics won game one, and it had nothing to do with the refs. The Lakers lost a game to San Antonio by 20 too though.

The Lakers had a horrible game in game one. Period. Both teams in the finals have played some horrible basketball games en route to the finals this year. Apparently the Lakers felt the need to carry that crap into game one, when the Celtics played some inspired ball.

Game 1?

Kobe was just missing bunnies! :D

(The defense had nothing to do with this of course . . . )

Kobe Bryant is the best ALL AROUND player in the NBA, he is the closest thing to a Michael Jordan in the NBA, and he didn't have the years of college experience Jordan had. He came right into the NBA out of high school.

First off Lets get something straight the best ALL AROUND player is NOT Kobe Bryant. ALL AROUND PLAYERS are not measured by points. The best way to measure ALL AROUND players is by one stat... Triple-Doubles. Let's look at the list of All-Time Triple-Doubles:

1. Oscar Roberstson total 181
2. Magic Johnson total 138
3. Jason Kidd total 100
4. Wilt Chamberlain total 78
5. Larry Bird total 59

So to be honest the best ALL AROUND PLAYER active in the NBA is Jason Kidd. Basketball isnt all about scoring, its about defense, rebounds, steals, etc..

By the way I dont see MJ on the list??? I do agree he changed the game of basketball, I do agree he was a great offensive player, BUT he WAS NOT the BEST ALL AROUND PLAYER to play the game.

How about 3 losses to the Atlanta Hawks? Every team can play a bad game.

please do not think i am saying the Celts havent struggled when they should of rolled a team...i am not saying that at all. He was just lumping game 1 into the whole ref fiasco.

I like that stat Ogan.

Along those same lines, here is a telling stat about KG:



Only player in NBA history to:



average at least 20 points, 10 rebounds, and 5 assists per game for 6 consecutive seasons. (1999–2005)
average at least 20 points, 10 rebounds, and 4 assists per game for 9 consecutive seasons. (1998–2007)

didnt KG come from high school too?? /snicker

And until this year, what had KG ever won? KG is an amazing player. The biggest strength of KG is also his biggest weakness. He's incredibly consistent. The problem with that is he (until the Pistons round this year) never was able to elevate his game when needed. He's too unselfish (again until the Pistons series this year) to take over a game when his teams need it.

KG is a great player, but he's no Tim Duncan.

didnt KG come from high school too?? /snicker

And how many stars did kg need to get his team to the finals? How many did Kobe need?

that is not the same as saying he is the best all around player.

What do you think being the Most Valuable player means?

I won't even justify Ogan's post. You are trying to argue that Jason Kidd is the best all around player in the nba based upon lifetime triple doubles? Come on. Third best all around player ever? Please.

Any one who doesn't at least include Jordan in the top 3 all time looks at numbers and doesn't watch the games themselves. Anyone that watched Jason Kidd this year knows he's washed up. The other 4 people on that triple double list have strong career stats. Jason Kidd's triple doubles are of the 10/10/10 ilk. Nothing like averaging a triple double for a season the Oscar. Nothing like a 25/8/11 player like Magic. Nothing like the 40/20/6 player Wilt was. And nothing like the 25/10/7 player like Larry Bird.

Nothing like the 30/7/6 player like Jordan. Jason Kidd plays horrible horrible defense, and Jordan was a perennial All-NBA defensive team player ( you know, like Kobe).

The NBA isn't all about numbers. Playing defense, getting into the lane, drawing double-triple teams (this is huge and also a non stat), drawing fouls, are all things people are failing to quantify here.

If you only look at numbers, and nothing but numbers, Wilt is the best player ever. I don't see anyone here arguing that. I don't think he's the best all time either. Wilt was dominant for the same reason Shaq was, sheerly because of a large size difference. Bill Russell was a better player than Wilt but with inferior stats in every category except the one that really matters. 11 Titles.

What do you think being the Most Valuable player means?


Most Valuable doesn't mean best player player or best all around player for a given year. It's supposed to reflect who did the most for their team that year. I don't see anyone here arguing that Steve Nash is the best all around player in the NBA here, and he has double the MVPs of Kobe.

Most Valuable doesn't mean best player player or best all around player for a given year. It's supposed to reflect who did the most for their team that year. I don't see anyone here arguing that Steve Nash is the best all around player in the NBA here, and he has double the MVPs of Kobe.

True... I have to say though... taking the lakers from where they were, to where they are now... takes a miracle, or one heck of a player.

Best player of all time:

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/lang_whitaker/02/20/links/t1_nate.robinson.jpg

Go Spud!!!

True... I have to say though... taking the lakers from where they were, to where they are now... takes a miracle, or one heck of a player.


from championship team with shaq, to mediocre, to elite team....yep one heck of a player.

Hey i still argue Steve Nash is the one the most impacting players in the league over all, but i didnt figure anyone would be on board with me on that.

Kobe's team is in the Finals... Where is shaq's?

Kobe wasn't even supposed to be the point of this thread... The horrific officiating is the main reason I posted this.

If the Lakers get screwed in LA like they did in Boston during game 2, I may never watch another NBA game ever again. I want to see a sport, not a soap opera on a Basketball court.

Come on, that's not fair. Shaq's washed up. Shaq started in the league 6 years before Kobe, after a couple years of college.

Come on, that's not fair. Shaq's washed up. Shaq started in the league 6 years before Kobe, after a couple years of college.

No!!! Its the Toe injury!

Kobe wasn't even supposed to be the point of this thread... The horrific officiating is the main reason I posted this.

If the Lakers get screwed in LA like they did in Boston during game 2, I may never watch another NBA game ever again. I want to see a sport, not a soap opera on a Basketball court.

because of the complaining and comments by phil jackson i forsee this the most boring slow game of all time as EVERY foul, no matter how significant will be called. We will be lucky to have a team break 90 points.

To add: KG will foul out in beginning of 4th quarter, and Doc Rivers will get ejected for yelling at ref's, oh and 3-0 Boston :P

/nods Grey that's probably a very apt prediction.

Lakers don't match up and Phil Jackson will use every ploy to cry about it.

Jesus christ... If you think the ref's didn't screw the Lakers out of that last game, you are insane!

Jesus Christ if you think the Lakers were the only one suffering bad calls this year then you are indeed a rookie.

Why is everything alright to you cause it happens to others also?

This is the NBA Finals, and the Lakers got screwed in Game 2. Thats the bottom line.

Jesus christ... If you think the ref's didn't screw the Lakers out of that last game, you are insane!

no one is arguing the point dude....

Got to admit though, barring the 4th quarter, Celtics Defense is AMAZING.

Cause the Lakers were AFRAID to go inside... They wouldn't get any fouls, and only risked getting in worse Foul trouble... They were playing an above average D, but it was nothing special.

I won't even justify Ogan's post. You are trying to argue that Jason Kidd is the best all around player in the nba based upon lifetime triple doubles? Come on. Third best all around player ever? Please.

Taleren All around means ALL AROUND... triple-doubles ARE the hardest stat to get in the game, thats why they are so hard to come by. I agree Kidd is washed up, and again we are looking at career stats, but still the numbers dont lie he plays all aspects of the game.

Any one who doesn't at least include Jordan in the top 3 all time looks at numbers and doesn't watch the games themselves. Anyone that watched Jason Kidd this year knows he's washed up. The other 4 people on that triple double list have strong career stats. Jason Kidd's triple doubles are of the 10/10/10 ilk. Nothing like averaging a triple double for a season the Oscar. Nothing like a 25/8/11 player like Magic. Nothing like the 40/20/6 player Wilt was. And nothing like the 25/10/7 player like Larry Bird.
I never said he wasnt a top all time player, but I do not consider him an all around player. In my era of the game I would probably rank him right under Magic and Bird. Why I say Magic and Bird, when they played the game there was so much talent in the NBA that Jordan really did not face. Jordan did not really start making a big impact on the game until names like the ones I mentioned retired.

Nothing like the 30/7/6 player like Jordan. Jason Kidd plays horrible horrible defense, and Jordan was a perennial All-NBA defensive team player ( you know, like Kobe).

The NBA isn't all about numbers. Playing defense, getting into the lane, drawing double-triple teams (this is huge and also a non stat), drawing fouls, are all things people are failing to quantify here.


Kidd is horrible at defense? a part of his 100 triple-doubles is steals!... That is defense. Dont get me wrong I don't really like Kidd, but I have to respect his game... 100 Triple-Doubles is not something down play.

To be honest probably the BEST ALL around player to ever step on the court was probably Magic, he had a short career with 138 triple-doubles. AND there was a TON of great talent in the NBA that he had to face like Bird, and Thomas.

no one is arguing the point dude....

Got to admit though, barring the 4th quarter, Celtics Defense is AMAZING.

Celtics have been playing great D all year.

Magic to me is the all time best player, at least during my lifetime. I haven't been arguing who's the best of all time though. I said Jordan has to be in the top 3.

Taleren All around means ALL AROUND... triple-doubles ARE the hardest stat to get in the game, thats why they are so hard to come by. I agree Kidd is washed up, and again we are looking at career stats, but still the numbers dont lie he plays all aspects of the game.


I never said he wasnt a top all time player, but I do not consider him an all around player. In my era of the game I would probably rank him right under Magic and Bird. Why I say Magic and Bird, when they played the game there was so much talent in the NBA that Jordan really did not face. Jordan did not really start making a big impact on the game until names like the ones I mentioned retired.



Kidd is horrible at defense? a part of his 100 triple-doubles is steals!... That is defense. Dont get me wrong I don't really like Kidd, but I have to respect his game... 100 Triple-Doubles is not something down play.

To be honest probably the BEST ALL around player to ever step on the court was probably Magic, he had a short career with 138 triple-doubles. AND there was a TON of great talent in the NBA that he had to face like Bird, and Thomas.


Kidd at one time was an excellent defender. He's not suited at all for today's game. Like I said, Kidd is a definite Hall of Famer. He's one of the 10 best point guards ever. He isn't a top 20 all time player though, and at no point during his career was he the best player in the game.

Also, to the people that knock Kobe for having Shaq and not winning a title without him, name a single player that has ever won a title in the NBA without another good to great player next to him (barring the 2000s Pistons, they went 6-8 deep with very good players but nary a superstar).

Jordan had Pippen and either Horace Grant or Rodman underneath.

Bird had McHale (regarded by some as the 2nd best Power Forward ever), Dennis Johnson (one of the best defenders ever), and Robert Parrish.

Magic had Kareem (you know, the all time leading scorer in NBA history), Worthy (probably the most underrated player ever, and also a Hall of Famer), and a slew of other very good players like Byron Scott and Michael Cooper.

Duncan had Robinson early in his career and Tony Parker and Manu (both of which are better than anyone Kobe's had until Pau, and maybe still).

Kidd at one time was an excellent defender. He's not suited at all for today's game. Like I said, Kidd is a definite Hall of Famer. He's one of the 10 best point guards ever. He isn't a top 20 all time player though.

I agree he probably isnt one of the top 20 players but I was just trying to make a point about all around players. Kobe is an excellent baller no doubt, but you really cant consider an all around player. In these modern days to score 81 points in a game is amazing. Even Jordan couldnt come close (69 iirc).

I agree he probably isnt one of the top 20 players but I was just trying to make a point about all around players. Kobe is an excellent baller no doubt, but you really cant consider an all around player. In these modern days to score 81 points in a game is amazing. Even Jordan couldnt come close (69 iirc).

Sure I can. He can pass, play d, rebound, score, and do all the intangibles that 99% of the other players in the league can't. He's also one of the most clutch players in the league. If I had to choose one player in the NBA to shoot a basketball to save my life at the end of the game, it would be Kobe.

Here we go... Perhaps one of the most important games of Kobe's career is about to start. Hopefully I have good news to discuss afterward!

Already, in the first 7 minutes the Lakers have shot more Free throws then the entire Game 2. Finally, the Ref's figured out that you can get fouled if your wearing something other then Green.

Already, in the first 7 minutes the Lakers have shot more Free throws then the entire Game 2. Finally, the Ref's figured out that you can get fouled if your wearing something other then Green.

The ref's were fucking horrible in this game. Bullshit charge calls. KG was illegal screening all game, and Pierce got punched in the face (not intentional) and didnt get a call. What a fucking joke of a game.


To get my stab in....all those free throws and the Lakers missed TOO TOO TOO many, including the 7 misses by "MVP"

didnt i call that low score :P

Guess what... Those shitty calls were even this time... Both teams had shitty calls... But at least it was fair, unlike the last lopsided game.

The Lakers showed you in a fair game what they can accomplish. Boston played a great game, but Kobe and Vujacic broke their backs.

meh, i would disagree...i think Pierce left his J at home, and that was the bigger deciding factor.

Vujacic did well.

Pierce and KG both had extremely sub-par games and it was still pretty close.

As a Celtics fan I would have been stunned if the Lakers lost that game, L.A. was the best team in the West pretty much all year, no way they blow their first game at home in the finals. The whole world knew that Kobe was going to get a slew of calls if he didn't settle for jumpers and threw himself in the general direction of the basket often enough. That's how officiating works in the NBA today, though, it's really pointless to complain about a star player getting a lot of calls on his home court, particularly when there were some major questions concerning the officiating in the previous game. Play aggressively without blatantly running people over and you will get calls, especially if your name is Kobe, Lebron, Dwayne Wade etc.

Should be a good series though, there's no way that the Celtics' stars will have a repeat performance of game three, and I also doubt we'll see the Lakers shoot fewer free throws than Leon Powe again.

Must admit, i dont know if it was the lakers D, or if KG and Paul just sucked last night, they didnt have it. KG, almost looked imtimidated to drive.

Kobe showed his mad MMA skills last night. I think Rampage Jackson would have been proud of some of the punches and submission holds Kobe worked on last night during the game. Tho he would've laughed at kobe crying for getting caught 1 out of 20 times for punching Pierce in the skull.

Celts got out played, if the refs leave it that open you have to take your shots and to hell with the press and the whiners. Play the game as you are allowed to play, don't let Showegotime stop ya!!

Tho he would've laughed at kobe crying for getting caught 1 out of 20 times for punching Pierce in the skull.

Yeah, that was definitely weak.

Kobe showed his mad MMA skills last night. I think Rampage Jackson would have been proud of some of the punches and submission holds Kobe worked on last night during the game. Tho he would've laughed at kobe crying for getting caught 1 out of 20 times for punching Pierce in the skull.

Celts got out played, if the refs leave it that open you have to take your shots and to hell with the press and the whiners. Play the game as you are allowed to play, don't let Showegotime stop ya!!

Kobe didn't cry about getting caught hitting pierce in the head... He was crying about the no call 3 seconds before that where he got fouled and it never got called.

Horse shit, he was at fault as well. The announcers even commented that Kobe was making much to do about something he was very guilty of.

Celts need to go back to playing hard in the paint, let the Lakers continue to shy away or flat out spend more time whining than playing and it's over.

Celts deserved to lose last night, you have to play your game to win.

Honestly, the only reason the lakers won is vujacic. Kobe is expected to step up, but if it were not for vujacic stepping up in the absence of anyone else doing a damn thing, the lakers would have lost.

I'd agree with V stepping up quite nicely. He looked solid out there and was definately in playoff mode.

The same could have been said about Powe stepping up in game 2. I agree the refs sucked in game two, but so did the Lakers energy and effort levels. The Lakers didn't deserve to win game 1 or 2. They showed in game 3 that they can win if they play hard for more than one quarter a game.

As far as Vujacic stepping up, like I said, every title winner has more than one player to turn too. Each team needs more than one player to play well per game to win. The Lakers won their only game in the series where more than one player played well.

I don't think Vujacic could have done most of that without Kobe drawing the double-team so often.

No he couldn't.

I have to say... The Celtics are a very good team. If my Lakers lose to anyone, the Celtics are the best team I can think of for them to lose to. No embarrassment for me in such a loss.

give money to know what paul and kobe were saying to each other near the end of the game.

Oh yea... Looked friendly, but it was probably pierce complaining about being hit in the head so much, and Kobe sayin "See how we felt last game?"

:)

no man, it wasn't friendly, you could tell, the smiles were for show. The ref almost broke it up.

And im sorry Kobe wasn't taking shots to the head like Pierce was, there was a point a close hand was used.

Good game Celtics :(

demoralizing loss for Lakers...Celtics played the best TEAM ball i can recall. CEltics have so many weapons, expect to see that "shooter" lineup again sunday.

The ref'ing was a non-issue, there were some wtf calls on both ends but not like games 1-3.

What an embarrassment game 4 was...

IMO dagger to the morale of the lakers...

I agree

Inc Kobe demanding either a trade or money spent on a supporting cast for next year.

The supporting cast is fine... Bynum will be back, and the Lakers will hit it hard again.

Supporting cast is not fine.

Ya'll lack a real bench and/or a 3rd playmaker on the floor.

Ariza will be 100%
farmar will be better
vujacic will be better
Bynum will be backmaybe trade odom for someone else, but nothing big is needed

Odom has potential...they shouldnt give up on him..


btw damn you for making me translate your title "An Iranian American" damn you!!!

Odom has potential...they shouldnt give up on him..


btw damn you for making me translate your title "An Iranian American" damn you!!!

lol

I agree that Odom has a ton of potential, he's ridiculously talented, but he's been in the league for like eight? years now and still struggles to be consistent. It may be easier with Bynum on the floor as he won't be expected to do as much, but I believe next year is his contract year, which means we'll probably be hearing a ton about Lamar Odom's expiring contract once the finals have ended -- especially if the Lakers don't win the finals.

Odom is intriguing enough that several teams would probably jump on him, if only because it's 15 mil or so coming off the books after next season. On the other hand they can simply opt to let him go after '09 and potentially go after one of the numerous attractive players that'll be free agents either then or the year after.

wait wait shouldnt Odom be uber because Kobe is on his team and he elevates everyone to god level??

hell of a game.....second time though Lakers have blowns a LARGE lead. While its a great morale boosters, even more so that dunk at the end by Kobe, i think its going to give Boston the fuel they need to put it out in Boston.

With the way LA played that game last night, I don't see them having a chance in Boston. Don't get me wrong... I live in SoCal and am rooting for them. I just don't think they've got it for two away game wins.

Congratulations Boston... A championship deserved indeed.

Good lord. That was brutal.

Holy shit is all I have to say....Time for nicknames

The Truth was amazing.

Jesus Shuttlesworth, 7 3-pointers. How many WIDE OPEN looks did the lakers need to give the arguable best shooter in the league????

The Kid, swollowed the paint. He blocked, he stole, he was all over the glass. Gasol, poor poor little euro, ( sad euroface.

Rondo needs a nickname after last nights game. 6 steals, points, ran the offense like a 10 year veteran.

Lastly, the entire bench for the celtics could start as a new franchise team and probably make the playoffs.

The Celts were a pure TEAM last night.

It was a such a show of talent that it appeared a pro team was playing a high school team.

Grats to KG, finally getting that ring , oh and to the rest of the celts of course.

Congrats Celtics.

Even as a long time Lakers fan, I am glad to see Garnett finally get a ring. Now maybe he'll get the proper amount of respect from the national media. Pierce was a beast in this series, amazing D on Kobe.

Kobe is definitely not Jordan. No way Jordan would have allowed a 40 point loss in the finals.

Kobe is definitely not Jordan. No way Jordan would have allowed a 40 point loss in the finals.


QFT

The disparity in team play was astounding. I kid you not there were several trips down the floor where it appears the Celts were playing at such a higher level of game than the Lakers I was sorry for Kobe and crew being out there ;(

More than a few times I seen the Celts not only make the unselfish extra pass, but also two or three passes more than neccessary.

The disparity in team play was astounding. I kid you not there were several trips down the floor where it appears the Celts were playing at such a higher level of game than the Lakers I was sorry for Kobe and crew being out there ;(

No kidding.

I think it was most striking when Pierce, Garnett, and Allen left the game, but the Celtics' second string was still crushing the Lakers all the same.

Dammit. It figures the one bet I make on vBookie gets erased :( Picked the celts to go all the way at the beginning of the season :(

Glad KG finally got a proper team and got his ring. I felt bad that he was trapped in MN so long without much support.