I was reading some commentary on MSN earlier today and there seems to be a growing concern about whether or not to rebuild New Orleans. Considering the issues involved... cost, resources, health risks, etc... it seems that many people are wondering if it should be rebuilt.

The cost to clean up, rebuild and recover would be staggering. Where does this money come from? Consider that there are approximately 188,000 homes in New Orleans and the federal flood insurance program has only issued 85,000 flood policies, most of the homeowners will have little or no insurance funds to cover the rebuilding cost.

Health issues are among some of the most compelling reasons to NOT rebuild. All this time that the buildings have been sitting in water, mold has started to grow inside the structures. When the water is drained, mold will grow on the part that was submerged. In many cases it would be necessary to raze the building rather than fight the mold. Some of the mold found in these homes would be toxic, if not lethal.

There are some who are calling for the city to be rebuilt in it's present location, some are saying that it should be rebuilt, but in a less flood prone area.

Thoughts and opinions?

Too bad there isn't a /rewind command in RL. The cost will be staggering, insurance companies will go under and/or we will have to foot the tab. And to rebuild will most likely be a mistake unless they can come up with a way to ensure it doesn't happen again. Admittedly it hasn't happened since '68, but still doesn't mean that it could happen again sooner rather than later.

I think in some ways the area will be rebuilt, I just don't know if they will say, 'there was a house here lets put this house back'. It is unfortunate that the living history that the area housed will be lost. It would be great to have the area restored, but with flood waters and all the crap floating in them, it would be the better choice to trash it and rebuild.

I heard they were estimating 2 years to rebuild, but at least a decade to fully recover. Though I don't think they really knew the full magnitude of the damage when they gave these estimates. I think it will take much longer.

Well someone said it the other day when I brought this up. New Orleans or some form of it is necessary for the Mississippi. Whether or not it will be able to be salvaged or rebuilt remains to be seen. I think some areas might be able to but some of the parishes, specifically Plaquemines is completely submerged. I don't just mean a few feet, I mean it's like the lost city of Atlantis. So, I think if anything some areas will be more readily rebuilt than others. I do not think it will be what it was three weeks ago, not for a very very long time.

The water being pumped back into Ponchitraine(forgive my spelling) is dirty, no it's filthy and those fish and other creatures can't survive in that crap. I heard estimates of 400,000 jobs being lost b/c of this. I think the OMB came up with that number....I have a few close friends who "lived" on Grand Isle, one who lived in B.C. Parish and several 1st and 2nd cousins who lived in Slidel. We've heard from a few of the ones from Slidel but not all of them. They made it to Athens to my Uncle's house and when asked about going back to Slidel they don't want to. I heard from my friend who lived in B.C. she is hold in a motel somewhere North of Baton Rogue. Last email I got was that she was looking for a ride to get back and survey the damage. The other is one of my sister's estranged boyfriends from an on again off again 20year romance. He lived on Grand Isle and worked on an oil rig...he called her when he was evacuated off the rig but she hasn't heard from him since.

I think the reality has hit some people, others I don't think so. I think the more important question to ask is not whether or not it should be rebuilt but rather what is this going to mean for our nation in the long run? New Orleans was a port city and a hub, yes we've felt the pinch at the pumps but in the long run after all the claims are paid (unless the insurance companies go bankrupt), all the tallies for the rescue, clean-up, and hearings are made....what is the final bill going to be for this disaster? I worry that it's going to cause a ripple effect throughout the economy. Those evacuees will enter new areas and start over, it will change local, state, and federal job markets, it could cause inflation, it could be a good thing who knows. I just don't think we have any idea what's going to happen down there yet. Aside from the toxicity issues, and clean water issues, it's going to take a while to pump that water out. Undoubtedly only being 30 years old I've witnessed allot in the past 20 years. This is one of those things like the Great Depression or a Wold War or Tsunami that people will always remember and always be talking about for years to come.

I agree Fildien, there is a need for New Orleans to be there in some fashion. As a port city, it plays a large part in the movement of oil, goods and supplies across the country.

The oil coming from the offshore rigs has to be loaded onto tankers or sent directly to refineries. This was handled quite well by the city of New Orleans.

We also get a good deal of surface ship traffic bringing goods and supplies... some of which also goes up the Mississippi River to various river ports.

The area also has a place of military significance and utility.

For those reasons alone, I think the city will continue/be rebuilt after a fashion. Is it going to be what it was before the hurricane? I don't think so. I too have been hearing from people who say they are not going back. The city of New Orleans is losing/has lost a lot of people. I don't think the city will ever be the same.

In my uneducated opinion (as if I have anything else) -

1- Block off the water

2- Air-dry

3- Liberal application of napalm

4- Unblock water

5- Call it a lesson learned

6- Rebuild on something less likely to sink below sea-level

Considering all the chemical pollution in the water, there is no good way to deal with the situation. Regardless if or where you pump the water to, the ground in new orleans will still be saturated with toxins. Where ever the water goes will become polluted, wether it be the lake or the ocean. If you drain the water then napalm the ground, can you imagine the toxic cloud that would create? I don't think the EPA has the resources to handle a toxic clean up of this magnitude. I think the only real way to deal with it is to do nothing. Let the water evaporate or sink naturally, and let all the buildings in the water deteriorate naturally. Spend the money to rebuild upriver and not to clean up a lost cause.

I feel sad for mother earth :(

When talking of rebuilding the area, one of the primary concerns needs to be the reconstruction of the barrier islands and the surrounding wetlands that have been taken for housing. If the population does indeed stay decreased due to migration of evacuees then the wetlands would be much easier reclaimed.

There will be some form of reconstruction simply because the port and it's importance to national and international commerce is too vital to simply forfeit. Hopefully Homeland Security will now take their own reports seriously and provide for some stronger sea walls and levees, because the same catastrophe can be produced by a few well placed explosive charges by terrorists, and we would be right back where we are now.

Everyone is going to feel some impact from this tragedy, as the ripples continue to spread. Some will want to rebuild as an act of defiance against Mother Nature, and others will want to rebuild for the necessity of commerce; whatever course is taken, at least a decade will be needed to fully recover the area, taking the vast pollution of the surrounding bodies of water into consideration.

The solution to polution is dilution.

It's a pretty ugly mess, but most of it'll be in the ocean soon.

There's an opportunity here to hit the restart button on a major city, not only erecting barriers to protect said city but attacking problems of environment, poverty, and perhaps corruption. Rebuilding NO as it was is folly; jury-rigging new living conditions no better than the old living conditions is folly.


The US and its leadership weren't interested in making sacrifices for the sake of Iraq. I hope New Orleans (and other affected regions) will be different.

Massive rebuilding of the barrier coastline.
Build up a durable seawall.
Perhaps raze the city proper and raise it by 20ft.
Rework the levy system.
Ahhhhh and of course maintain the Madri Gras!!! ...years later of course.

But still maintain the flavor of Nawleans!!

Fandros

Perhaps we should turn over the rebuilding to Omni Consumer Products. OCP did such a good job with New Detroit, we might want to consider letting them build New New Orleans.

Two Words..

Venice West

ewwww a venice like city would be pretty sweet.

/agree L2
Hell, name it New Venice.

Has Halliburton put in a bid yet?

Has Halliburton put in a bid yet?

YES! (http://www.theonion.com/2056-06-22/news/5/)

Jesus christ, put on your fucking tin foil hat eh?

Haili burton is a lighting rod for sad sacks.....

It's not the Antichrist, nor is it the end of freewill. But apparently it is the end all be all of leftist wacko Nancy palosi bs.....

I don't like it, but we could've gotten our oil hella cheaper than invading Iraq.

But hey, you can't think for yer own...keep going there...

Fandros

My thought would be to allow the private sector to rebuild as much as they can first. Starbucks *can't stand* that the market has been saturated by water, and not another of their convenient locations. Both Starbucks and McDonald's have enough recycled foam to construct one helluva caffeine play pit. Think of the environmental press it could generate...finally a use for all of those unused "hot stays hot- cool stays cool" McDLT containers.

We could build an enormous McLevee. That's the American way.

Given how much of the city is going to have to be razed and rebuilt regardless of what water control system they come up, I suspect that people wanting or not wanting to rebuild New Orleans is going to be far less of a factor than how many people make an individual decision that it's not practical, affordable, or desirable to move back. If most of the population migrates out, rebuilding is a moot point.

Of course it's going to be rebuilt. It's just going to be a much smaller city than it used to be.

Jesus christ, put on your fucking tin foil hat eh?

Haili burton is a lighting rod for sad sacks.....

It's not the Antichrist, nor is it the end of freewill. But apparently it is the end all be all of leftist wacko Nancy palosi bs.....

I don't like it, but we could've gotten our oil hella cheaper than invading Iraq.

But hey, you can't think for yer own...keep going there...

Fandros

How sad that you have completely lost your sense of humor, Fand.

Indeed Fan lighten up a tad, that was some funny stuff.

heh...

Sorry, was 3 days with 6 hours of sleep and late last night. Sorry for the errrr biting and sour post.

Fandros

Perhaps we should turn over the rebuilding to Omni Consumer Products. OCP did such a good job with New Detroit, we might want to consider letting them build New New Orleans.

Robocop reference for the win?

Unfortunately rebuilding would be too costly for any company to want to do. Then to have any regional/national company want to move back there would seem impossible.

Not even sure what a valid solution is.

yes, we can rebuild it

yes, we have the technology...

it will be stronger

faster

**theme to six-million dollar man**


***except add a few more zeros to it, maybe like 6 or 7 more

and i love this state, i love where i live. but i can only take so much. please please please, these people need to go back. baton rouge doubled in size overnight. it doesn't have the roads to handle this many people. hell, it couldn't handle the number of people we had before. 10-minute car trips now take an hour. my car insurance is gonna skyrocket. louisiana has the worst car insurance rates in the nation. now it's gonna be hell to pay.

have you tried going shopping for food here? there's nothing on the shelves, the stores close at 10pm to restock, people get there and line up before the stores open and descend on it like locusts. it's crazy.

new orleans has to be rebuilt.

I live in texas have 3 shelters within walking distance of my house... My car has been broken into 2 times now stuff is missing from my yard and I am getting tired of it. I have been working at 1 of the shelters from 3 30 am till time to go into work work late then go back by the shelter. I have a shelter full of special needs people the other 2 are larger (numbering in the thousands) and no idea what type of people they are. The number one thing you hear on the news is that they do not want to leave texas they want to relocate here..... I think it is time for me to move out to my land outside the city and live on dialup :(

YES! (http://www.theonion.com/2056-06-22/news/5/)

Actually...

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/10/katrina.contracts.reut/

I live in texas have 3 shelters within walking distance of my house... My car has been broken into 2 times now stuff is missing from my yard and I am getting tired of it. I have been working at 1 of the shelters from 3 30 am till time to go into work work late then go back by the shelter. I have a shelter full of special needs people the other 2 are larger (numbering in the thousands) and no idea what type of people they are. The number one thing you hear on the news is that they do not want to leave texas they want to relocate here..... I think it is time for me to move out to my land outside the city and live on dialup :(

Wow, this would suck. Hats off to you for helping but I don't blame ya I'd be pissed and say to hell with it too.

Sorry for the trouble you're having Silentcerri. I suppose thieves are thieves (hidden among many) even when they're helped.

BTW who cares if a subsidiary of Haliburton (sp) cleans up the hurricane damage? Maybe they used a well-known company to get things done faster? Because they know their capabilities/capacities? I for one wouldn't care if they were cleaning up damage around me.

It's called fiscal responsibility. You bid out services to get the biggest bang for the government dollar. There are enough questions surrounding Halliburton (completely aside from the Cheney connection) that the last thing we should do is award them another no bid contract. It also reeks of cronyism -- Halli's lobbyist is former FEMA head and Bush campaign veteran Joe Allbaugh -- which is bad politically. Just another example of fiscal conservatism being flung out the window.

The last telecast I saw said halli would be working on getting the naval base rebuilt. since they built it originally it isnt a stretch to think they would be a bit more informed as to how the based was set up before and able to put it right alot faster. The minute anyone gets a contract that has had any links to the republican party folks start saying its cronism, and perhaps it is, but perhaps it is also the fact that Halli is one of only a few companies that does this type and work and is the largest one at that, with a lot of expertise in these kinds of things.

You wanna bitch, bitch about the cuba aid doctors being told they shouldnt be needed. not for any good reason other than they are from Cuba.

Not to mention when you're under as much criticism as fire as the government is right now regarding the hurricane, with the polls supposedly showing a major drop in public approval - how about (just for fun) doing something that isn't massively controversial right now? I mean, seriously...Halli isn't the only corporation, why not show the public that you (whoever is making said decisions at any step of this snafu) can make decisions that appeal to voters and build confidence as a leader? As opposed to decisions that instantly upset people - nice leadership style.

So just what other corporation would you suggest? Afaik, Halliburton and it's subsidiaries is one of the largest in the world, and they are good and getting shit done, and getting it done fast.

Halliburton and it's subsidiaries is one of the largest in the world, and they are good and getting shit done, and getting it done fast.

Plus, they have that wonderful ability to pad their billings and charge for services never provided, and still get contracts extended after admitting to false charges.

and that answers the question how? Oh, and while they're making mistakes in their billing they also employ local populations, build things quickly, serve some shitty food in their dining facilities, and get the job done. Question still stands who else can do that big a job?

Halliburton is to construction as microsoft is to operting systems. They are simply good at what they do. If someone is better then lets hear about it..don't simply assume there is one.

I think the time required to put out a job for bids is also a factor to be considered. It is going to be politically important to get the rebuilding started as soon as possible and the competitive bid process is just not quick enough. It can take months to determine the winning bidder. That would clearly be unacceptable.

I can pretty much guarantee that the bill Haliburton presents to the government will be heavily audited after the Iraq experience. I can also pretty much guarantee that it will *need* to be audited and that there will be downward adjustments made.

I'd like to think so, Gulor -- accounting and accountability haven't exactly been hallmarks of the administration.

Political pressure will force the administration to audit Haliburton. I'm pretty sure the rebuilding will be still going on during the 2008 campaign and it will become an issue.

They are saying they may open up the French Quarter as early as next week. I'm wondering if that's for out of towners too and if the roads will be in good enough condition to get there.

Two things I heard today, one is hearsay atm but the other I just saw on the news.

Has anyone heard or can confirm that Bush has taken the position that government contracts for the reconstruction of New Orleans are not going to honor union contracts/pay scales?

And, what I just saw on the news is that they are filing involuntary manslaughter/negligent homicide charges against the nursing home workers who abandoned 34 residents to drown when they fled for safety.

It is going to continue getting messier, I think.

Has anyone heard or can confirm that Bush has taken the position that government contracts for the reconstruction of New Orleans are not going to honor union contracts/pay scales?

That is correct, though at the moment I can't find a link.

1.
Halliburton and it's subsidiaries is one of the largest in the world, and they are good and getting shit done, and getting it done fast.


2.
Plus, they have that wonderful ability to pad their billings and charge for services never provided, and still get contracts extended after admitting to false charges.

3.
it will *need* to be audited and that there will be downward adjustments made.

It's late so let me try to keep this short as someone that makes his living working on gov't projects (D.O.T) as a contractor....

1. - Size and capacity has a LOT to do with getting the contract. If the mom and pop operation down the road can build a house faster than the big company, fine. If they have to build 500, it's an issue due to capacity. I've lost bids to companies like Lockheed due to capacity.

2. - It's amazing how many people can point at a unit cost and not how it got there. Yes, there is abuse, but most times, it is simple ignorance. An example:If my company is based in TX and you need a repair made to 20' of conduit and wire in NJ, and you require me to do the repair since I installed the other 10 miles of conduit and wire on the origional contract, that is gonna be the most expensive piece of conduit and wire you have seen. I have to send folks there, repair it, and send em back. All of that is usually a time + materials basis. Blame the origional contract for making the requirement, not the contractor for doing what is in the contract.

3. - ain't gonna happen. Give me a contract to build 400k widgets, at a certain price, and kiss my ass when it is done. It's called being low bidder. If I bid a contract to build 40 widgets for $10 each, and you decide to overrun the quantities by 200k, you pay the same unit price. That's why it is called a contract.

BTW, if you SAW most of the contracts the gov't put out, you'd run. Most lawyers would tell you they border on being illegal. You take what they say they want, give em a price, and hope to make a profit.

I've seen many a contracting company go broke over some government yahoo playing "power to the people nit picking asswipe". Wanna know why that hammer is 100 bucks? Try bidding it, submitting it for approval, supplying it, and maintaining it.

Blame the process, not the provider.

P.S. Anyone who thought building a town below sea level on the coast should be taken out back and beaten.

P.S. Anyone who thought building a town below sea level on the coast should be taken out back and beaten.

How bout the Netherlands, that's a whole country below sea level. Where the 49ers play in San Fran is below sea level also. It sucks yes, but most cities start near a source of water. New Orleans wasn't quite as far below sea level when it was built, it just happens to be sinking.

They also don't have hurricanes in the Netherlands.

and they have a much better system of levees than new orleans too. that was part of my point. NO wouldn't be in bad shape if it had the Netherlands system of levees.

Didn't they have a flood back in the 50's that killed thousands and flooded the place even worse than NOLA?

I've heard people talk about the current Netherlands levee system being so great, but never anything concrete at all or a reference to any proof of that. A levee is pretty simple. What about theirs are fundamentally different? No matter how great the levees in the Netherlands are for their purposes, I doubt they're equipped to handle a cat4/5 storm surge either.

Another problem with the levees in NOLA is that they've been sinking along with the town. The whole setup has been FUBAR for a long time.

You are correct about the Netherlands flood (http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2005/09/02/59111.htm)...
"The nearest historic analog to the 2005 Great New Orleans Flood is the 1953 flood in the Netherlands, also caused by a major wind driven storm surge that overwhelmed poorly maintained defenses protecting land below sea-level. The 1953 Dutch flood led to more than 1,800 deaths and the inundation of 47,000 properties. It took six months to pump out all the water from the flood bowl."

Concerning the Dutch levee systems, I agree that there is not a large amount of credible information out there. The best article (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/08/0829_wiredutch_2.html) I could locate is from 2001. Alternative forms of land management are being considered to combat global warming conditions that are expected to cause rising waters and more powerful storms. The Netherlands are sinking too, but the Dutch plan to compromise with Mother Nature.

That article references a 1995 river flood that forced evacuation of 200k people, and talks about their need to spend up to $25 billion renovating their levee system. Sounds like theirs aren't even as good as the NOLA ones, from that.

Thanks for the article.

The Netherlands will spend the money, however...will we?

That $25 billion plan includes surrendering some 450,000+ acres of land to water also. Not to mention: "Some towns and villages will be told they can't build new infrastructure, because their surroundings will be given back to the rivers in the coming decades."

Sounds like they would discourage rebuilding NOLA, if it was in the Netherlands. Maybe that's why their system is considered better than ours?

I've seen many a contracting company go broke over some government yahoo playing "power to the people nit picking asswipe". Wanna know why that hammer is 100 bucks? Try bidding it, submitting it for approval, supplying it, and maintaining it.

Actually, it was my job for a number of years to review spare part purchases for the government after the shit hit the fan about obscenely priced spares. I can tell you the main reason there were $100 hammers was simply because when the contracts were invoiced, they divided the total cost of the project equally between all the line items involved in the project, whether that line item was a hammer or an M1 tank. Those line item costs were then mindlessly entered into government databases without review and when spares had to be bought, the cost that was pulled out of the database was the "averaged" figure that had no relation to the actual worth of the item. It had absolutely nothing to do with the cost to bid it, supply it, maintain it etc. It was purely a bureaucratic fuck-up on the part of the government.

Now that I work in the private sector, I can also tell you there are myriad ways that are used to squeeze extra profit out many contracts by fudging costs, labor, overhead, cost of money etc, usually on change-orders that lie outside the scope of the original firm fixed price contract. On top of that, not all government contracts are firm fixed price, especially those that are *not* competitive bids such as the case here. They also use "base-plus" contracts that allow flexibility for changing costs/conditions. That is where I predict the number will be inflated and eventually adjusted.

usually on change-orders that lie outside the scope of the original firm fixed price contract.

Gonna try to keep this from being long winded...

*nod* to a point.
There are mechanisms built in to limit padding. I dunno about what contracts you have seen, but ALL of the D.O.T. contracts I have been on ( I work from TX east and NJ south), have what is called "force account". If they feel your price is too high, the can require you to do the work and track every man hour, every equipment hour(based on blue book rates), every gallon of gas, every part you use. You are limited to a certain mark up on each. It's a total PITA so they try to negotiate a price instead.

I'e been doing this kind of work for about 10 years now. We typically bid the work at a 3% margin and hope you can eaither beat the labor budget or catch a few change orders in your favor to make your profit. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. It depends alot on the district of the state you are in and what equipment is spec'd.

ie; I put 250 cameras up on I20 in GA for a cost of about 4k per camera. That included equipment, maintaining and replacing them through acceptance (6 months to a year), and training. Not a bad deal for the state and us.

I've also put up 70 cameras in the San Antonio area. They spec'd a broadcast quality camera that was MY cost 38k. Selling em to the DOT for 40k each made the total seem high, but the margin was not(the product was expensive, but the contract owner wasn't unreasonable so it was pretty much a wash).

On, I35 in Arlington, they spec'd equipment that simply would not work. 2 months of letters explaining it wouldn't(the consultants who wrote the spec didn't want to admit they made a mistake). I had to buy the euipment, set it up in a lab, and prove it wouldn't work. Then I had to buy the right equipment and show em it would. That got a marginal change order and we lost our ass.

See, most of these contracts have that phrase "Even though the euipment must meet the specifications, the contractor is responsible for providing a complete and working system".

I've seen some pretty silly crap over the years on this. If the folks will listen and work with you, they get a product that works, in a reasonable time, for a reasonable price, and I make a few bucks. If they won't, I lose my ass. That cost for the loss is considered when you bid and that explains why my unit price for installing something in one place, is quite different from another place (ie; I miss bids due to previous experience in Houston, yet come in low in other cities in TX).

Simple fact is there is too much competition to pad much on the bids.

P.S. Sorry to pick on TX, but it had teh best recent examples I could think of.

On most bidding situations, I certainly agree with you. The situation we are talking about here though is not really a bidding situation, i.e. there is no real competition, so you can be sure margins will be fatter and there will be a lot more room for error. My guess is most of the later reconstruction work will be bid out more competitively, but this early stuff is going to be let out quickly without much scrutiny on the front end.

I've also seen the martinets who can nitpick from the government side of the equation and specification blunders. My personal experiences were all with DOD contracts, but I have some close friends in the construction industry who also bid on DOT work and an awful lot depends on the personalities involved on how much profit they can make. It's very much a relationship based industry, even moreso on commercial work.

Still waiting for an answer, who else would you suggest to do it?

I mean I turned to the almighty google (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=really+fucking+huge+corporations+that+build+shit +fast&btnG=Google+Search), and still couldn't find a better one, so maybe you could enlighten the rest of us.

The bidders (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,912515,00.html) for the last major construction project, post-war reconstruction in Iraq, probably haven't changed their enormous marketshare as "the top five" since 2003.

Halliburton
Bechtel Group
Fluor Corp
Parsons Corp
Louis Berger Group

I'd start with these,...

Well from the mighty Bush speech last night New Orleans will be rebuilt however an interesting question from Nydia in another thread:

great city will actually be able to afford to live in the 'new' New Orleans once the eminent domain and real estate speculation and redevelopment frenzy has subsided :)...

Once this huge redevelopment is done...do you really think they will be putting in "projects" or low income housing. Highly doubtful and this was where most if not all the poor people of New Orleans lived and thrived in for many many years. They are with out a home after the storm and will be when the building is done most likely.

Ya know this is actually kind of interesting. I don't think in the past 50yrs we've had the opportunity to rebuild one of our metropolis? I mean, if they are smart they can really fix issues with inner city stuff. It's going to be interesting.

Why have ghettos at all?

Ghettos aren't created. They evolve.

It takes a lot of money to get rid of them. Chicago is kind of doing this; we're getting rid of high rises and replacing them with lower density housing that's spread all over and interspersed with new "middle class" construction. The notorious high rises across from the Cell are empty of not leveled, and yuppie housing from the east has taken a serious bit our of Cabrini Green (which was really low rises, not high rise buildings).

If there wasn't a property tax windfall over the last 10 years, I doubt we'd be doing it.

OTOH, though, 27% of NO was at or below the poverty line. If the government is paying to rebuild, there will be tons of subsidized housing. It would be interesting to be an investor who concentrates on section 8 housing in the areas that get rebuilt....

I doubt good things can come from a reconstruction overseen by Karl Rove. The Republican response to Bush's plan is quietly mixed (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/16/politics/16cong.html?hp&ex=1126843200&en=dc9a79668bffb41b&ei=5094&partner=homepage)
Top quote:
Despite those comments, many Republicans are increasingly edgy about the White House's push for a potentially open-ended recovery budget, worried that the president - in trying to regroup politically - was making expensive promises they would have to keep.

"We are not sure he knows what he is getting into," said one senior House Republican official who requested anonymity because of the potential consequences of publicly criticizing the administration.

I live a few feet from "ghetto" in Phoenix, and I'm smack in the middle of an urban renewal project.

http://www.coppersquare.com/business/news/

Van Buren St. in Phoenix used to be the "main drag" for hotels for airport travelers back in the day. Now it's where you can get rooms by the hour from a faceless voice behind bulletproof glass. They sell crack in the alleys, and if you've seen Fox's Cops in Phoenix, they probably busted down a door in the neighborhood. [Crystal Meth busts are reserved for the suburbs.]

Copper Square is pushing outward from Central and Washington in Phoenix (0 north, 0 west on our cartesian street system), and is making inroads into once "blighted" areas. It's actually fairly interesting for me to watch as the seasons go by. A long process.

An article (http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1117445.php) discussing proposed cuts to help pay for Katrina.

I saw only a small bit of a report on one of the Fox reports saying Pelosi had offered to give back her earmarked projects froim the transportation bill, but Delay adamantly refused and Hastert (sp) fumbled about with his response, saying pretty much nothing.

While it would only amount to approx. $24billion, the earmarked add-ons to the transportation budget bill should be looked at as automatic give backs as far as I am concerned even though it would further delay a bridge we have been waiting for in my town for generations.

I would much rather see the earmarked projects go first ahead of messing with the health-care of our military and their families.

I've read that Montana is considering applying 4 million worth of transportation dollars earmarked for a parking garage to Katrina. Don Young (R-Alaska) was asked if he might propose the same for parts of the transportation bill, such as his "Bridge to Nowhere" and "Don Young Way" (two projects servicing low populations amounting to 500+ million). He called the proposal "moronic."

New Orleans' future is taking another hit with streets that had just been dried up now under waist deep water again, with levees that had been patched not holding up to the stress.

They drained the patched levee's. Blocked them off at Lake Pontzatrain (sp). I believe these are new ruptures.


Fandros

A future for New Orleans? Most certainly.

I just spent the last month working there (just got home today actually), since my unit was deployed there for relief efforts. First hand experience seems to suggest that New Orleans should by all rights percivere and more than likely come out of this whole experience with vast improvements to its infrastructure and medical systems as well as a new look at why this city is so plagued by poverty. That is if people still choose to keep the faith in their city. Granted, there is alot of mess to clean up yet, especially in parishes that were underwater for long periods of time and exposed to the refinery spills. That will be a long term problem, but for the most part, the majority of the major infrastructure in the city is in tact and functional now. There is power and sanitation. The roads are being cleared. Public spaces, schools, post offices and other municiple services are recovering. Pretty much once that is in place its just a matter of the will of the people to pull together as nieghbors and do the majority of the back breaking clean up....which is mostly alot of downed trees, debris, trash and muck. Downtown skyscrapers are still standing, be it with alot of broken windows. The French Quarter has been trashed more thoroughly during Mardi Gras as compared to its current state.

The city still smelled like death when we left, but then again in the outskirts of the city all the residents have returned to the point of creating traffic jams. Bourbon Street has bars open. Many businesses are open in spite of damaged buildings. The economy is functioning. There are thousands upon thousands of contractors there working around the clock 7 days a week. Think of them as being the modern day carpetbaggers. Most are getting very hefty salaries.

All this is happening without the government for the most part. Yes, I was there as part of a military effort there, but our job was to clean public buildings and spaces and get them open as well as to build tent cities for civilian contractors as well as the local cops, firefighters and other key city employees to live in. Once New Orleans gets a viable medical system up, the city should be in decent shape to get on with welcoming backresidents and businesses. Considering that the whole entire south got flattened 150 years ago, New Orleans should be in fine shape in 10 years or so and with the city in a temporary state of population decline and a reconstruction period, constructing a proper levee system might be much more feasable. As to how it gets paid for...well, where there is a will there will be a way and where there is trouble there is opportunity.

Glad to hear the news, Lummus. Thanks for the report and your part in the cleanup.

Interesting snippet here on a Commander's Palace (a restaurant in New Orleans) discussion board. The referenced article mentions that CP was pretty well trashed by Katrina. Someone followed up and said the article was "grossly inaccurate". http://katrina.guestbridge.net/viewtopic.php?t=104&start=0

All utilities have been restored to the French Quarter, what's stopping a lot of businesses from opening at the moment is lack of employees.