http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLuMWiQ6r2o&eurl=

There are obviously 2 ways this could be "spun".

I'm eager to see the responses on this board.

Same thing I tell my 17 year old son.

My brother in law ended up in Iraq twice because after learning no discipline and not caring about education, he didn't have any better life options than joining the military. He's much better for it now, but what Kerry says DOES have a ring of truth to it.

Same thing I tell my 17 year old son.



That he could be President if he flunks school?

Unless Rover is legacy, he can't pull any strings to get his kid into Yale.

And dont' get me wrong either, I'm not saying even the majority of the people in the military are people that didn't care about education, but it IS a good option for those that skirt through high school.

I personally agree with this closing sentence.

The Honorable John F. Kerry
United States Senator
304 Senate Russell Building
Washington, DC 20510

Dear John:

I was dismayed to hear your recent comments about our military men and women in Iraq, suggesting that they are stuck there because they're uneducated, perhaps because they didn't work hard at their studies. I write to demand an immediate apology from you in light of those comments.

On October 30, 2006 at an appearance in California on behalf of Phil Angelides’ Governor Campaign, your comments were truly despicable and offensive. It's a slap in the face of all of our intelligent, dedicated, brave men and women in the military. Of course, there are many of these from Louisiana, whom I have the honor to represent. I take particular offense on behalf of them.

I interact with our fine military regularly, particularly those from Louisiana. I'm always struck by their courage, dedication, AND intelligence. It's an objective fact that our military today is better educated and trained than ever before. In light of this obvious reality, your comments suggest that either you don't interact with today's military in any significant way or, even more troubling; you have a basic and deep-seated contempt for them.

They aren't stupid, uneducated, or lazy. They're heroes. And they deserve your immediate apology.

Sincerely,

David Vitter

United States Senator

And dont' get me wrong either, I'm not saying even the majority of the people in the military are people that didn't care about education, but it IS a good option for those that skirt through high school.

That's how a lot of people are taking it. But he just as easily could have meant that poeple who don't do well in school, wind up making mistakes, like getting the country stuck in Iraq.

For a smart man, his words were chosen poorly, if that were his intent.

Now more people will continue to think that he has low regard for people in military service.

And from Sen. McCain...

Senator Kerry owes an apology to the many thousands of Americans serving in Iraq, who answered their country's call because they are patriots and not because of any deficiencies in their education. Americans from all backgrounds, well off and less fortunate, with high school diplomas and graduate degrees, take seriously their duty to our country, and risk their lives today to defend the rest of us in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere. They all deserve our respect and deepest gratitude for their service. The suggestion that only the least educated Americans would agree to serve in the military and fight in Iraq, is an insult to every soldier serving in combat, and should deeply offend any American with an ounce of appreciation for what they suffer and risk so that the rest of us can sleep more comfortably at night. Without them, we wouldn't live in a country where people securely possess all their God-given rights, including the right to express insensitive, ill-considered and uninformed remarks. John F. Kerry is the gift that keeps on giving...

I have no knowledge of the speech Kerry is supposed to have given, but if he made the suggestive remarks attributed by Vitter then the letter is right on the money.

The fact that this letter is public knowledge, however, makes me wonder if it was written as much out of Vitter's indignation or more for the political benefit Vitter might gain from families of military personnel among his consituency.

I get just as disgusted by comments like those attributed to Kerry as I do by those politicians using the troops for political gains.

What he said has zero truth in it. I know people who joined the military with far more education then Kerry will ever see. Hell, I joined the military after having my degree in Computer Science. And to those that say the military is the last resort of people who are shitbags, or "uneducated" also shows some true insight in how people really feel about the military. This is just another example of liberal elitism. Today's military is NOTHING like it was 30 years ago. Today, instead of just having to be able to point a rifle, or throw a grenade, soldiers have to know how to load and operate Frequency hopping radios, understand Tacsat's, be able to understand different languages, and a multitude of other high level skilled tasks.

And Rover.. it is good to see that the marines did you so well considering it must have been the only option you had for not being well educated.

Heh.

Its amusing to see the Hinderberg-esque GOP grasping for whatever straws they can find to stop the unfolding tragedy.

HoHum.

1. Kerry is an idiot.
2. Paraphrase: If the Bush Administration "Stay the Course" is stayed on, then there will be a draft, and in my Vietnam experience it was the poor and uneducated, kids not going to college that were drafted into Nam.

Basically another near nonsensical but benign statement from Kerry.

He is an idiot. He was perpetuating a stereotype that our soldiers are primarily uneducated drop-outs.

As for grasping at straws, it's amazing the double standard. Trent Lott makes one idiotic statement at a funeral and he's torched for weeks and loses his leadership position. Kerry accuses our soldiers of being uneducated drop-outs, and he gets a pass?

Again, I think he was addressing an imagined army 10 years from now, with an instituted draft instead of todays highly professional, highly trained all volunteer army

What Kerry said was true in 1968, not in 2006

My brother in law ended up in Iraq twice because after learning no discipline and not caring about education, he didn't have any better life options than joining the military. He's much better for it now, but what Kerry says DOES have a ring of truth to it.

I guess I'm an oddball, I went to the Army after graduating from college with an overall average of 3.5, the last two years I had 4.0s and that was with playing two sports (basketball and volleyball) and having workstudy. I double majored and had they have allowed me I could have triple majored. (I'm an over acheiver :( ) I felt the pull to serve and am glad I did. What you say is true to some degree but thankfully the ASVAB gives options to those who excel and properly places the 11-bangbangs.

John Kerry... I voted for him before I voted against him.

I thought of that in the shower and it seemed humourous to me.

What Kerry said was true in 1968, not in 2006 Kerry is still living in 1968? That would explain some things...

He was talking about Bush being stupid and stuck in Iraq. Some are too quick to except the Republican spin tactics.

Kerry said the comment in question was "a botched joke about the president and the president's people, not about the troops ... and they know that's what I was talking about."

It came during a campaign rally for California Democratic gubernatorial candidate Phil Angelides. Kerry opened his speech at Pasadena City College with several one-liners, saying at one point that Bush had lived in Texas but now "lives in a state of denial."

He then said: "You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."



Sorry to squash all your fun Shanno and Akipt. :devil

And to those that say the military is the last resort of people who are shitbags, or "uneducated" also shows some true insight in how people really feel about the military.

My ex-girlfriend served as a reserve in the military and graduated from AU with a 3.9 and now works for Nancy Pelosi. I know a number of people who served in the military that are extremely intelligent in addition to her and my step father.

However, you look at the tactics of the average military recruiter and that isn't what they necessarily target. Lets start in the town I grew up in, Warminster, PA. All of these statistics come from our past class president now president of our alumni association. I went to a highschool with around 800 people in my class when we started freshman year. About 600 people graduated, about 300 of them went on to a 4 year college and another 150 went on to a community college or trade school. Of those graduates that went off to college, zero are or have ever been in the armed forces. There are 22 highschool graduates from the class of 2000 who are in the Army. Of the ~200 that didn't graduate from William Tennent High School, 79 of them are in the Army. I don't know how many of the remaining 110 or so folks ended up in the Navy, Airforce, or Marines - but you get the point. I truthfully would be increasingly less surprised for the numbers to be far more drastic as you get further away from metropolitain centers (my home town being 30 minutes from Philadelphia).

As for grasping at straws, it's amazing the double standard. Trent Lott makes one idiotic statement at a funeral and he's torched for weeks and loses his leadership position. Kerry accuses our soldiers of being uneducated drop-outs, and he gets a pass?

Sorry, but I find it somewhat idiotic to compare an insult to our military with a racist comment, seeing how there has never been a war within our country over the treatment or stereotyping of the military, but we lost more men fighting a war in this country over the stereotyping Lott was endorsing than any other.

What he said has zero truth in it. I know people who joined the military with far more education then Kerry will ever see. Hell, I joined the military after having my degree in Computer Science. And to those that say the military is the last resort of people who are shitbags, or "uneducated" also shows some true insight in how people really feel about the military. This is just another example of liberal elitism. Today's military is NOTHING like it was 30 years ago. Today, instead of just having to be able to point a rifle, or throw a grenade, soldiers have to know how to load and operate Frequency hopping radios, understand Tacsat's, be able to understand different languages, and a multitude of other high level skilled tasks.

And Rover.. it is good to see that the marines did you so well considering it must have been the only option you had for not being well educated.

Hey thanks for the comment on my education. Looks like yours has done you well.

I joined the Marine Corp after quitting High School in my Junior year. It was not my only option. I could have gone and worked as a gas station attendant or perhaps i could have used my self learned skills as an auto mechanic to possibly get a job in a small shop somewhere and make ok money. But I soon realized my error in youthful thinking and received my GED.

I decided to join the service with a bit of prodding from my father, turns out it was a good idea on his part. I scored in the top 10% on the ASVAB test both in Newark NJ and also at Parris island, I went in open contract. This got me into infantry school and also fire team leader. I made E-5 in 21 months and became an expert in both my primary and secondary MOS's. I did some time at Quantico training Officer Candidates and was also accepted in the Marine Corp OCS program, I went to college at The State University of New York, but in the end declined to accept a commission as I felt that life outside of the military had more to offer than being inside and making a career of it.

I would say that it depends on what you are looking for in life.

My own experiences in the service showed me that there were as many reasons and as many levels of education as there are/were people in the service, we all had our reasons for being there. But we were all there.

The standards for enlistment have been lowered over the past few years and this is what I believe that John Kerry was referring to when he made his comment, as he is probably a bit "old school" in the sense that he, much like alot of people, see the military as an option to get oneself an education, life experience and motivation to get ahead. It is the reason why I tell my own son that his best way to stay out of Iraq is to get a good education which hopefully translates into a good job and decent lifestyle.

That being said, the military is not for everyone, but it can make one grow up real quick and will often help to mature individuals that need to have that extra push. I would not discourage nor would I encourage any of my children to join the military, but I will tell them the truth that there is not one ounce of glory in war. It is simply the desire to survive and protect oneself and their buddies in a very bad situation that will cause some to go above and beyond the normal human reaction while under fire. The normal reaction is to hunker down, make yourself small and not move or run in the opposite direction.

I do have a desire as a father to not see any of my children spend 5 seconds in a combat situation and it is that reason that brings myself to tell my son that without a good education he risks spending time in Iraq. To see any of my children sent off to war would truly break my heart. But I guess that reaction is one of experience and not one of glory filled dreams created by watching hollywood propaganda.

Everyday that I see those young Marines in Rhamadi or Fallujah it bothers me that I am not there to guide them and get them through what I know to be a life changing experience, but to do that would be to abandon my children and risk them not having a Father and my obligation to guide them through lifes pitfalls. I can tell you that internally I fight that with myself on a daily basis, but that is just the brotherhood that the Marine Corp instilled in me.


"There was a loud ringing in his ears, like nothing he's ever experienced before. His ability to breathe was taken from him by the concussive blast. Or was it a blast. Looking across what was the mess tent he saw something on the ground but he wasn't sure what it was he was looking at, perhaps it was someones laundry bag that had been torn open and had something spilled over and around it, some type of thick red liquid with thick bluish globs spattered around it.

He looked for the Lieutenant through the gray haze. Coming to the realization that what looked like the remains of a laundry bag was where the young officer had been standing less than five seconds before."

So to answer your condescending question about my education and joining the service, yes, I became a Marine to offset my lack of a formal education at that time in my life.

I wonder what the context of the speech was mostly, anyone have a transcript?

bottom line:
2 day story without legs. Wont be talked about or remembered by Friday.

What else to do with it now? White House condemed, everyone in the GOP issued a statement, the talk shows did 3 hours on it... He issued a statement saying thats not what he said, out of context, blah, blah.. And most people dont give a damn about Kerry.

All thats really left is for candidates to directly ask Democratic challengers if they support Kerrys statement. Weak sauce and easily deflected...

In fact, this could prove a boon for Democrats like Ford and Webb running in Red States as moderates. All they have to do is denounce what Kerry said. Boom.. moderate credibility. In a swift move they have moved away from the far left and to the center without even taking a position on a real issue.

Oh it'll still be talked about. There's a metric shitton of Airman here at the base I work on that aren't pleased at all.

Spin it all you like, ya hopeful lefties, but Kerry is done as a possible great white big jawed hope for ya'll.

Best be smart and divorce yourself from his lunacy, his lies might float with the clearly delusional but they don't carry(kerry? ;P) weight with the thinking mass's.

Fandros Finglaflin

Kerry is done as a possible great white big jawed hope for ya'll


He was done as a great big hope for the Dems after the '04 election. The party has moved on to better candidates (for the most part).

It's amazing how stupid the right can be...

I posted it once and I'll say it again, he was referring to bushing being a stupid c student and being stuck in Iraq...both of which are true.

The truly sad thing is, is how many completely dee-dee-dee people will truly believe he said that service people are uneducated or under perfomers..WHEN HE WAS IN THE MILITARY HIMSELF.

Only an idiot would truly believe that's what he meant...a complete fucking idiot.

You are correct Ailwon. But unfortunately the modern day republican party has been able to grab hold of the brains of the 30% or so in America that react instead of think.

Kerry was actually a highly educated member of the military who could have easily received a deferment, much like Cheney did, and never had to worry about going to war. Of course this would have resulted in Kerry becoming a true patriot and a real American unlike the unpatriotic two tour serving, silver star awarded, bronze star awarded, three purple heart holding unpatriotic fuckhead that he is. But I guess he didn't have anything better to do than serve his country and win medals in direct combat.

The real insult to our troops was telling them that there was a valid reason for going into Iraq when there simply was none. Or maybe we should say there was multiple reasons for going into Iraq...it just depends on which previous reason given was shown to be untrue.

Which reason are we at now?

What will there be to talk about in two days? Nothing. On thursday this story will be on life support, chest compressions being administered by talking heads desperate to talk about anything other than Iraq. But in 2, 3, 4 days Iraq will still be there, Al-Maliki will still be shuffling the deck chairs.. Bush still wont have a plan or a vision or an idea of what he is doing.

Reese Witherspoon is getting a divorce. Wow shes on the market!

Reese Witherspoon is getting a divorce. Wow shes on the market!


Let me know when Liv Tyler is open...kk thx

As for grasping at straws, it's amazing the double standard. Trent Lott makes one idiotic statement at a funeral and he's torched for weeks and loses his leadership position. Kerry accuses our soldiers of being uneducated drop-outs, and he gets a pass?
One President lies about getting a blowjob and is impeached. Another lies about spying on US citizens with illegal wiretaps (and a few other things as well) and gets a pass. Yep, those double standards really are amazing.
What will there be to talk about in two days? Nothing. On thursday this story will be on life support,...
I agree only because a) the end of Saddam's trial is set for the 5th and b) Rove and the NRCC probably have something in mind. And maybe another bin Laden tape will show up.

Actually it was Bill Frist who skewered Trent Lott for his comment....funny thing those that are power hungry...they even shit where they eat.

It's days like this that I'm glad I'm a soldier, and all I have to worry about is knowing how to maker the enemy dead. None of this bullshit political crap, or humanitarian crap... Oh and yeah can't forget that nowadays I most certainely don't have to know anything about the culture I'm going into, or how to treat people their with respect using their customs, and how to not offend them. Because hey, I'm just a dumbass GI who couldn't get into college because I came from a poor family and failed out of the third grade.

I hope Kerry gets hit but a bus, or grand piano, or some other looney tunes-esque fate.

But anyways...

Seriously I wish we could take the politicking out of warfare, so much easier when it's just about which asshole needs killing.

"The senator's suggestion that the men and women of our military are somehow uneducated is insulting and shameful," Bush said.

How many "maybe's" can you fit into one sentance? What a stretch.

Well, after watching the many talking heads it seems that this was a comment soundbitten out of context. Kerry was referring to Bush having not paid attention in college and how doing that can get you stuck in Iraq. So after all it was not about the troops it was a comment made about Bush.

I thought it odd that someone who had served with the distinction that Kerry did would have disparaged the troops on the ground, after all unlike the majority of those in power in Washington have never worn a uniform in service of the USA, Kerry did however winning a Silver Star, Bronze Star and 3 purple hearts.

Sorry Elemak, but when you start a war for political motivations, and Iraq was all about Political motivations, and we started it, you can never take the politics out of it. Its like taking the peanut butter out of a peanut butter cup. omg candy.

The truly sad thing is, is how many completely dee-dee-dee people

You know, this has zero to do with the topic at hand, but I just had to say that I got a giggle to learn that 'dee-dee-dee' (although to me, phonetically, it should be more like 'DEEt-duh-Dee' ;) ) has become part of the vernacular. Gogo Carlos Mencia!

(Yeah, so shoot me, I think he's funny even though some of his stuff is really tasteless)

Regards,
Nydia

http://blog.johnkerry.com/2006/10/kerry_if_anyone_owes_our_troop.html

Today in a press conference in Seattle, Washington, John Kerry responded to Republican attacks and partisan efforts to distort his botched George Bush joke.

Senator Kerry: My statement yesterday -- and the White House knows this full well -- was a botched joke about the president and the president's people, not about the troops.

.. when you start a war for political motivations, and Iraq was all about Political motivations, and we started it ??? LMAO.

I keep reading on this board how pathetic the Republicans and Bush are being on this... I've yet to see an apology nor have I seen a response to McCain's continued comments.

You can't make this up. His statement, basically, was so demeaning to the men and women who are serving in the military that you will be even more grateful than you are at this moment that George Bush is president of the United States…

You can't make this up. His statement was that if you get an education and you do well, then you don't have to go to Iraq, and if you don't have an education, then you have to go to Iraq. Do you know how demeaning that is to the men and women who are serving so magnificently in the cause of freedom and are fighting and dying in Iraq today? As I said, you can't make it up.I guess he's a stoog for the Bush adminstration afterall.

And about those test scores for our soldiers...

http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/cda06-09.cfm
Our review of Pentagon enlistee data shows that the only group that is lowering its participation in the military is the poor. The percentage of recruits from the poorest American neighborhoods (with one-fifth of the U.S. population) declined from 18 percent in 1999 to 14.6 percent in 2003, 14.1 percent in 2004, and 13.7 percent in 2005. . . .

In summary, the additional years of recruit data (2004–2005) support the previous finding that U.S. military recruits are more similar than dissimilar to the American youth population. The slight dif­ferences are that wartime U.S. military enlistees are better educated, wealthier, and more rural on aver­age than their civilian peers.

Recruits have a higher percentage of high school graduates and representation from Southern and rural areas. No evidence indicates exploitation of racial minorities (either by race or by race-weighted ZIP code areas). Finally, the distribution of household income of recruits is noticeably higher than that of the entire youth population. Yes, it's the Heritage Foundation. Get over it.

I've read similar studies about Vietnam veterans generally being more affluent and educated now than those who passed on the Vietnam experience.

Anyway, at this rate Kerry is going to go into full melt down and blame the Rove and right wing bloggers for this mess. Oh wait, he did that already.

And you sad people who voted for him in '04? LMAO

Well thats real good there Akipt. Did it ever occur to anyone that one of the reasons people join the military is because of a tight job market?

Now I understand there is a bit of patriotism in most who join the military but I assure you like I stated earlier the reasons for joining are as many as there are people in the military.

I guess he's a stoog for the Bush adminstration afterall.
At this point, he's a stooge for any point of view that abets his chances in 2008.
Yes, it's the Heritage Foundation. Get over it.
I wish I'd thought of this in that Jim Webb thread...


You missed the indepth and enlightening article MoveOn.org did for Webb. And I can't wait for Dan Rather's exclusive this election's eve.
Yes, it's MoveOn.org. Get over it.

It's that easy!

omg candy.

Truer words have never been spoken.... /fat

Tight Labor market?????

LMAO talk about wearing blinders..

Jesus, if you want a job...you can find one....

Day one and it's heating up......

Many of those running on the left have asked Kerry to stay away from their tight races. One was quoted as saying his mouth had cost them the 04 elections they were afraid he just cost them 06....

It is not a non issue, sorry L2 I know you see that now.

If Kerry doesn't zip it soon the Dems will have no shot at taking control of anything...

Fandros Finglaflin

Tight Labor market?????

LMAO talk about wearing blinders..

Jesus, if you want a job...you can find one....

I almost find this offensive. It all depends on which area of the country you live in. Sure I could find 'a job,' but that doesn't denote ANYTHING that could help support my family in my area. I have been looking for a 'decent' job for a year and a half. I've taken a couple of contract jobs that pay WELL below what a person with 2 college degrees should be accepting. I can't find anything in my field in my area (moving isn't an option, my wife has a good job and we have a new house without any equity making selling it not an option). This doesn't even include how bad the housing market is right now anyhow. Even with equity in our house, we might have to hold it 6+ months to find a buyer. When we bought our house 2 years ago, it had been on the market 2 days (yes we have no equity because we just re-fied).

Sure, I could go to McDonalds and find a job, or WalMart. But seriously, if you think the skilled job market is good, then you are the one with the blinders. Especially here in Ohio, the job market is HORRID. Hell, I don't need a manufacturing job, but just in my state alone, we've lost 200,000 manufacturing jobs in the last 6-8 years. Maybe some of those jobs have been 'replaced' by new jobs, if you consider taking a job at WalMart for less than half the pay, without comparable benefits a replacement job.

Tight Labor market?????

LMAO talk about wearing blinders..



Actually, the study done by CIS and linked on www.npg.org shows that a large portion of the "new jobs" out there have not gone to native-born but instead to immigrants, a large portion of which are illegal. The numbers being quoted regarding great employment do not divulge who is being employed.

I've been beating the recruiters off with a stick lately, and I haven't listed or updated my resume since 2001. It can't be that bad.

First off, Kerry's an idiot for saying something that could be misconstrued so easily by our idiot president and his co-horts.

I've yet to see an apology nor have I seen a response to McCain's continued comments.

That's because he has done it a couple of times, but the dumb ass Republicans keep trying to spin it for idiots like you. The fact that you think he needs to apologize for something your idiot party is twisting proves to me how utterly lost you are Akipt.

The most unfortunate thing is I have lost all respect for McCain at this point. For a while there, I thought he was different from these other clowns like Bush, Kerry, Dean, etc. Oh well.

First off, Kerry's an idiot for saying something that could be misconstrued so easily by our idiot president and his co-horts.

Quote:
I've yet to see an apology nor have I seen a response to McCain's continued comments.


That's because he has done it a couple of times, but the dumb ass Republicans keep trying to spin it for idiots like you. The fact that you think he needs to apologize for something your idiot party is twisting proves to me how utterly lost you are Akipt.

The most unfortunate thing is I have lost all respect for McCain at this point. For a while there, I thought he was different from these other clowns like Bush, Kerry, Dean, etc. Oh well.


Boy Aliwon.. every post on this thread has been filled with Venom.. what is the problem? Is your posterchild of '04 embarrassing you and you now see that once again his boasting will cost you in these elections? This is a major issue, as you can see.. not even the liberal media is able to ignore this one. Please explain how what he said can even be remotely close to a "botched joke".

Lets see...

Ford Jr in Tennesse, Brucy Braley in Iowa, the Minnesota Rally,.. how many more Democrats are going to think this might not be just another Rove conspiracy and not invite Kerry to rallies or speak out against him? What I find funny is how 2 years ago, Kerry was the smart candidate and Bush was a bumbling baffoon, but yet now most on this board is calling him an idiot...

A internet connection... $39 a month
Computer and monitor... $999
Watching all you liberals calling your Genius of '04 an idiot... Priceless

I've been beating the recruiters off with a stick lately, and I haven't listed or updated my resume since 2001. It can't be that bad.

Like I said, it depends what part of the country you are in. I have had plenty of opportunities if I didn't have a wife/kid/house where I am atm. That doesn't mean the job market for the country is good, it means certain areas have a good job market. The job market in Ohio is ass. While that may not matter to much of the country... Ohio is 7th highest populated state. It's significant here, both parties are focusing on jobs as much as any other issue here (other than mudslinging of course). I am by far not the only person in Ohio having a hard time finding a job.

(of course, in a lovely bout of Karma, I was called about a nice job opportunity after my first post. A job that I am actually fairly confidant I might get. Again though, it's just contract work, albeit a much longer term contract than my last two.)

What Taleren is saying is quite accurate with regards to location. If you are looking for a manufacturing job in Michigan, you can forget it. We are in the same boat here. We are the only state to have negative job growth.

not even the liberal media is able to ignore this one.
But our "liberal media" easily ignores Bush's statements of the last few days that voting for Democrats supports the terrorists.

The positive side of Kerry's comments, however they're spun, is that they further reduce his chances of recapturing the 2008 Dem nomination.

what is the problem?

The problem is...it's another attempt by the GOP to take something an oppenent said and convince it's idiot constituancy that he meant something that any idiot knows he didn't. They consistantly doign this to take the focus how horribly they've fucked up while in power.

John Kerry would make a below average president...but, he is most definitely the way, way way, lesser of two evils when put up against ANY Republican at this point.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061101/ts_nm/usa_elections_kerry_dc

Wow, Shanno, I really have given you way too much credit. Do you really think a College graduated, decorated war vet would make a statement saying that our troops in Iraq is stupid? If you really do, I'm suprised you have enough brain power to even breathe.

Kerry is an idiot....he's just not an evil complete idiot like Bush.

Okay, let's believe Kerry when he says he was making a joke about Bush's grades and intelligence.

So how well did Kerry do in college ?

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/06/07/yale_grades_portray_kerry_as_a_lackluster_student/

Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black isn't it. :')

Believe me I'm no fan of the Democrats either...the thing that really depresses me is, I really don't like anyone that could be running for president in 2008 at this point. Someday I hope there's a guy I can really feel good about voting for....I have yet to have that feeling about any election.

ROFL - Those pictures are classic. Kerry looks like an idiot and Bush appears to have a unibrow.

yoooooou raaaaaang?

The most unfortunate thing is I have lost all respect for McCain at this point. For a while there, I thought he was different from these other clowns like Bush, Kerry, Dean, etc. Oh well.

I feel the same way, really. I may not have always agreed with his stances on this or that, but I respected him, as he seemed to work hard to be above politics. Election ambitions seem to be reducing him to politically minded sycophancy and Rovian levels of discourse, however. The latest is his commentary on "good friend" Kerry while at a campaign for a guy who tossed the "cut and run" comment at his opponent, Tammy Duckworth, who lost her legs in Iraq.

The problem is...it's another attempt by the GOP to take something an oppenent said and convince it's idiot constituancy that he meant something that any idiot knows he didn't. They consistantly doign this to take the focus how horribly they've fucked up while in power.



Hmm.. Interesting how you seem to think that only the horrible evil Republicans do this... Maybe I should loan you my blinders



John Kerry would make a below average president...but, he is most definitely the way, way way, lesser of two evils when put up against ANY Republican at this point.



Any Republican? It is nice to know that you are so well informed on all possible '08 candidates that the Republicans can put forth. Please tell me how Kerry is better then... lets say.. McCain.



Wow, Shanno, I really have given you way too much credit. Do you really think a College graduated, decorated war vet would make a statement saying that our troops in Iraq is stupid? If you really do, I'm suprised you have enough brain power to even breathe.


Yes I do think that a College graduated, decorated war vet would say something like that. Kerry was so proud of his service that he threw his ..err.. someone else's ribbons to the ground. Kerry was so proud of his service that he talked about the horrors he seen OTHER troops doing.. but did nothing to stop. Kerry is a far left wing nut who was so proud of the military that he voted against funding after he voted for it. Please... Just because you were ONCE a military member does not mean he has to be proud of them. Ok.. I will stop now and get back to my Aqualung.. It is getting hard to breathe.

Remember Aliwon.. if we are soooo stupid, then why are there Democratic hopefuls out there seperating themselves.. maybe you need to look in the mirror my friend. Nobody else on this board is even coming close to your stance on this....


Kerry is an idiot....he's just not an evil complete idiot like Bush.


Priceless.. just priceless... Bush is now EVIL...

Okay, let's believe Kerry when he says he was making a joke about Bush's grades and intelligence.

So how well did Kerry do in college ?

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/06/07/yale_grades_portray_kerry_as_a_lackluster_student/

So is what you are saying that officers in the Navy are stupid?

Good point Akipt, now lets take a look at Bush and his record in the Vietnam war...oh....sorry there is none.

so lets look at Cheney and his military service record...oh sorry there is none

But thats not all fair... so lets look at Kerry's arrest record....oh sorry there is none

Lets look at Bush and his arrest record...hey look...a DWI conviction...score 1 for Bush!

Lets look at Cheney and his arrest record...hey look again...a conviction...score 1 for Cheney!

The score stands at:

Bush - Cheney 2 arrests

Kerry - None

Please tell me how Kerry is better then... lets say.. McCain.

Well lets see. In the last election I believe that the Bush camp had stated that to elect McCain as president would risk having someone who was unstable due to the time he spent as a POW.

As an addendum to akipt's Heritage Foundation report is this graph (http://nationalpriorities.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=230) that focuses purely on Army recruits (as opposed to military recruits as a whole). The summary:

Note that the peak of the bars falls in the range of $30,000 to $59,999. In other words, neighborhoods with low- to middle-median household incomes are over-represented. Neighborhoods with high-median household incomes are under-represented. (The comparable median household income for the U.S. is $47,837.)

Well lets see. In the last election I believe that the Bush camp had stated that to elect McCain as president would risk having someone who was unstable due to the time he spent as a POW.

Nice try Rover.. I am sure we all can agree that was typical slandering that goes on in Primaries. How about a legit arguement. One that actually proves that kerry is .. what let me see how Ailwon put it..

John Kerry would make a below average president...but, he is most definitely the way, way way, lesser of two evils when put up against ANY Republican at this point.

ok.. so how is he Wayx3 the lesser of two evils over McCain? I am sure interested in hearing.. since there will not be a George W Bush to hate in '08

I'm not sure how good of a president either man would make, they both however unfortunately are guilty of pandering to the extreme wings of their parties and both have given in to outside pressures when it comes right down to it.

Both are experienced in washington and politics. Both are military and combat veterans.

The only thing that I see that could put Kerry ahead of McCain is that everything bad that Kerry said would happen if Bush was re-elected in '04 has come true.

http://www.drudgereport.com/irak.jpg

That is fantastic Ibudin. He's obviously backpedaling on his statement and saying he meant something else. Listening to his speech, however, it is clear he was referring to the troops and not Bush. Being a veteran doesn't make you immune to military stereotypes and biases. Certainly not when you've been part of the northeast liberal elite for so many years.

Off topic a bit...someone please explain to me why the modern day republican party is good for America?

Explain it in another thread please.

Flashback????

Poll: Many Americans Still Unsure Whom To Vote Against

June 2, 2004 | Issue 40•22

WASHINGTON, DC—According to Gallup Poll results released Monday, 6 percent of Americans are still undecided about whether to vote against President Bush or Democratic challenger John Kerry in November's presidential election.

"At first, I was really leaning toward voting against Kerry, because the way he tried to hide his ambivalence about his military service made him seem like a political operator," poll participant and Trenton, NJ resident Amber Barthelme said. "But then, the Bush Administration's mishandling of the Iraqi prisoner-abuse scandal got me thinking that there's a lot to not like about the current administration. It's almost impossible to decide which side I don't want to be on."

According to the poll, 46 percent of the registered voters surveyed would vote against Bush if the election were held tomorrow, while 45 percent said they were ready to vote against Kerry. Factoring in the 2 percent margin of error, the two candidates are essentially deadlocked in the race to determine which candidate America doesn't support.

Researcher Jack Harmon, an analyst for the independent Beltway think tank the Dewey-Markham Institute, said these undecided Americans will be crucial in deciding the next election.

"As the messy occupation of Iraq drags on, Bush's approval rating continues to drop, strengthening the position of the anti-Bush voting bloc," Harmon said. "This trend is offset by the Bush camp's $80 million anti-Kerry ad campaign, which has cemented anti-Kerry sentiment in several key swing states. As the election approaches, it's becoming more and more difficult to determine the likely loser."

Harmon said voters are conflicted, wanting to cast environmental and antiwar votes against Bush, but wishing also to oppose Kerry's position on taxation.

"The two major parties face a tough struggle," Harmon said. "As the election approaches, both must convince undecided voters that the opposing party's candidate is worse than their own. As both parties take more moderate positions in an election year, it's getting harder to convince citizens that there's a reason to get out there and vote against anyone."

Brad Thomas, a Louisiana machinist, is one of many Americans who have yet to decide whom they'll vote against.

Poll: Many Americans Still Unsure Whom To Vote Against

Many voters are still deciding whether Kerry or Bush would be worse as president.

"I'd like to say I'm against Bush because he lied about weapons of mass destruction," Thomas said. "On the other hand, Kerry's lack of substantive positions really disgusts me, as well."

Tina Schalek, a Branson, MO theater manager, said she is also undecided.

"John Kerry's only virtue is that he hasn't been in a position to make any major mistakes," Schalek said. "On the other hand, I hate Bush's views on abortion. My only consolation is that a vote against either candidate is a vote against Nader."

In spite of such ambivalence among swing voters, surveys reveal that the majority of Americans have determined which candidate they will vote against.

"It's time to trim the Bush from the White House," Akron, OH resident Doug Hamm said. "In 2004, it's time for Bush to get bushwhacked!"

Pressed to elaborate on his views, Hamm said, "To be honest, Kerry could be a guy with a paper bag over his head, for all I care. I'd vote for anybody as long as he wasn't Bush."

Karla Barr of Chicago had similarly strong opinions about Kerry.

"Kerry is a wishy-washy flip-flopper, changing his tune every time the wind blows," Barr said, repeating a phrase she'd heard on The Rush Limbaugh Show. "Can I trust a man who can't make up his mind about Communism? I don't think so."

Added Barr: "We have to remember how close the 2000 election was, when we voted against Gore. Actually, to be fair, when I voted against Gore, I was voting against Clinton."

He's obviously backpedaling on his statement and saying he meant something else. Listening to his speech, however, it is clear he was referring to the troops and not Bush.
John Kerry discussed this with Imus (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6928257/):
Sen. John Kerry: ... See, look, this is a great volunteer Army, and the word volunteer Army means you have to be smart to get in it. They know that, everybody knows. You can't get in the military today if you're not capable and not smart. This comment couldn't have been directed at them because you can't get into the military by doing badly at school. This was directed at the people who didn't do their homework, didn't listen to history, didn't listen to their own advice, and they owe the American people an apology, now you know I’m coming back to Washington today so that I’m not a distraction because I don't want to be a distraction to these campaigns, and the point is simply they owe America an apology for this disaster in Iraq. And I hope they're going to provide it."
Imus: "See I was talking to Charles last night about this, and it was my inclination to try to defend you in this and I said, I think I know what he meant. I mean it's clear what he meant, but I--I had to acknowledge in my conversation with Charles that that's not what you said so..."

Sen. John Kerry: "Oh, of course it isn't what I said."

Imus: "Why don't you..."

Sen. John Kerry: "...I left out one word. I left out the word, us. They got us stuck, and instead of that I said, they got stuck, and their [sic] taking advantage of it--and here's what's wrong..."
That Kerry left out a word in speaking from his prepared remarks makes infinitely more sense than that he would refer to our military's members as dumb even if it weren't election season.

Of course, the real insult is and will always be Bush's "Where's the WMDs?" video at the 2004 White House Correspondents Dinner.

Explain it in another thread please.

Thank you.

The poorly executed joke was my defense for him.
But to play Devil's Advocate, if he left the word "us" out of his joke, was it a Freudian slip?
What else did he "leave out" when he was campaigning for President?

That interview sums up everything thats wrong with the media. Kerry's people shopped the interview, they found a reporter willing to throw softball question after softball question at him and clearly his interviewer was in complete agreement with Kerry from before they sat down together.

Naturally it goes both ways though. Went and interviewed Cheney for Kudlow & Company ... I think it was Monday. Kudlow told his producer he refused to mention Haliburton or the water torture thing because they were "non-stories" and he didn't want to upset him.

And both ways it makes sense and the public doesn't seem to care about it. If they don't suck on these guy's nuts they won't get the interview ever again. Not to mention the "black box" operator that has a kill switch attached to their microphones which can shut them up at any time. If only they put those kill switches on podiums in public speaking events.

http://www.drudgereport.com/irak.jpg

You know, you got to love our troops!
:D :D :D

well whatdayaknow. Its Friday and the story is dead. To quote Dustin Hoffman in "Wag the Dog" ... You just cant teach this..

Anyway, lets let Mr. Friedman do the postmortem on this cocksucker.

Insulting Our Troops, and Our Intelligence
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

George Bush, Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfeld think you’re stupid. Yes, they do.

They think they can take a mangled quip about President Bush and Iraq by John Kerry — a man who is not even running for office but who, unlike Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney, never ran away from combat service — and get you to vote against all Democrats in this election.

Every time you hear Mr. Bush or Mr. Cheney lash out against Mr. Kerry, I hope you will say to yourself, “They must think I’m stupid.” Because they surely do.

They think that they can get you to overlook all of the Bush team’s real and deadly insults to the U.S. military over the past six years by hyping and exaggerating Mr. Kerry’s mangled gibe at the president.

What could possibly be more injurious and insulting to the U.S. military than to send it into combat in Iraq without enough men — to launch an invasion of a foreign country not by the Powell Doctrine of overwhelming force, but by the Rumsfeld Doctrine of just enough troops to lose? What could be a bigger insult than that?

What could possibly be more injurious and insulting to our men and women in uniform than sending them off to war without the proper equipment, so that some soldiers in the field were left to buy their own body armor and to retrofit their own jeeps with scrap metal so that roadside bombs in Iraq would only maim them for life and not kill them? And what could be more injurious and insulting than Don Rumsfeld’s response to criticism that he sent our troops off in haste and unprepared: Hey, you go to war with the army you’ve got — get over it.

What could possibly be more injurious and insulting to our men and women in uniform than to send them off to war in Iraq without any coherent postwar plan for political reconstruction there, so that the U.S. military has had to assume not only security responsibilities for all of Iraq but the political rebuilding as well? The Bush team has created a veritable library of military histories — from “Cobra II” to “Fiasco” to “State of Denial” — all of which contain the same damning conclusion offered by the very soldiers and officers who fought this war: This administration never had a plan for the morning after, and we’ve been making it up — and paying the price — ever since.

And what could possibly be more injurious and insulting to our men and women in Iraq than to send them off to war and then go out and finance the very people they’re fighting against with our gluttonous consumption of oil? Sure, George Bush told us we’re addicted to oil, but he has not done one single significant thing — demanded higher mileage standards from Detroit, imposed a gasoline tax or even used the bully pulpit of the White House to drive conservation — to end that addiction. So we continue to finance the U.S. military with our tax dollars, while we finance Iran, Syria, Wahhabi mosques and Al Qaeda madrassas with our energy purchases.

Everyone says that Karl Rove is a genius. Yeah, right. So are cigarette companies. They get you to buy cigarettes even though we know they cause cancer. That is the kind of genius Karl Rove is. He is not a man who has designed a strategy to reunite our country around an agenda of renewal for the 21st century — to bring out the best in us. His “genius” is taking some irrelevant aside by John Kerry and twisting it to bring out the worst in us, so you will ignore the mess that the Bush team has visited on this country.

And Karl Rove has succeeded at that in the past because he was sure that he could sell just enough Bush cigarettes, even though people knew they caused cancer. Please, please, for our country’s health, prove him wrong this time.

Let Karl know that you’re not stupid. Let him know that you know that the most patriotic thing to do in this election is to vote against an administration that has — through sheer incompetence — brought us to a point in Iraq that was not inevitable but is now unwinnable.

Let Karl know that you think this is a critical election, because you know as a citizen that if the Bush team can behave with the level of deadly incompetence it has exhibited in Iraq — and then get away with it by holding on to the House and the Senate — it means our country has become a banana republic. It means our democracy is in tatters because it is so gerrymandered, so polluted by money, and so divided by professional political hacks that we can no longer hold the ruling party to account.

It means we’re as stupid as Karl thinks we are.

I, for one, don’t think we’re that stupid. Next Tuesday we’ll see.


Boom. Headshot

the story is dead

must be since your still talking about it

Ho Hum....

Well, I can't say I'm suprised by the reactions on this board to this story. When I posted the clip, I knew what Kerry was trying to say.
A lot of people on here rushed to the (incorrect) conclusion that Kerry was taking a swipe at our troops.

Rover, Bly, and L2, all fell for the trap.

Ailwon was the only 1 that didn't, and I have to say, I respect him for that.

I personally think Kerry is an idiot.

Not because I think he is dumb, but he had a real chance at winning and becoming President. Reading on how he would have handled the whole 9/11 aftermath, I have to say he's extremely intelligent.

Granted he has the hindsight of history to use as a way to modify his answers. Anyone can say how they would do things differently, when they don't have the weight of a country on thier shoulders.

Regardless, the man that would be President is now a sock puppet, to be laughed at and made fun of.

They think they can take a mangled quip about President Bush and Iraq by John Kerry — a man who is not even running for office but who, unlike Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney, never ran away from combat service — and get you to vote against all Democrats in this election. So we can't talk about someone not running for office so that you can talk about someone not running for office? Sounds fair.

Given that those running for office, many of whom are counting on Bush support and Rovian tactics, echo the hatin' on Kerry approach, it's quite fair.

Rover, Bly, and L2, all fell for the trap.



Oh boy...you got me ...HAHAHAHA....that was something else....I feel real dumb now....can't beat that Sixee and his genius...nope...nope....nope....boy oh boy.....what a bunch of stooges the three of us turned out to be...that Sixee ...boy he is just like Ali G...gotta watch out for him...well I guess I'll take a ride over to Goobers and have me a soda pop....boy oh boy I feel dumb...

I think this places things in a good perspective:


Everyone says that Karl Rove is a genius. Yeah, right. So are cigarette companies. They get you to buy cigarettes even though we know they cause cancer. That is the kind of genius Karl Rove is. He is not a man who has designed a strategy to reunite our country around an agenda of renewal for the 21st century — to bring out the best in us. His “genius” is taking some irrelevant aside by John Kerry and twisting it to bring out the worst in us, so you will ignore the mess that the Bush team has visited on this country.

Oh boy...you got me ...HAHAHAHA....that was something else....I feel real dumb now....can't beat that Sixee and his genius...nope...nope....nope....boy oh boy.....what a bunch of stooges the three of us turned out to be...that Sixee ...boy he is just like Ali G...gotta watch out for him...well I guess I'll take a ride over to Goobers and have me a soda pop....boy oh boy I feel dumb...


I didn't lay a trap for you.

You fell into the trap that was laid by others.

The fact you were beating your chest saying "That's what I tell my 17 year old son" shows you were incapable of coherant analysis.

You just "jumped on that bandwagon".

Note my stance that Kerry was talking about the President, and not the troops.

And I didn't even need it pointed out to me by the one that put his foot in his own mouth...

boy oh boy I feel dumb

You feel dumb? YOU FEEL DUMB!! Think how I feel!!

Ailwon was the only 1 that didn't, and I have to say, I respect him for that.

Need I say more!! :p

Ho Hum....

Well, I can't say I'm suprised by the reactions on this board to this story. When I posted the clip, I knew what Kerry was trying to say.
A lot of people on here rushed to the (incorrect) conclusion that Kerry was taking a swipe at our troops.

Bly fell for the trap.



I have gone back through the thread from post 1, and fail to see what you are talking about.

Please dissect my posts for me to show me how I have done as you say. Granted, only the first two posts were directly related to the topic of the thread.

I have no knowledge of the speech Kerry is supposed to have given, but if he made the suggestive remarks attributed by Vitter then the letter is right on the money.

You left yourself an out.


The only thing you are guilty of is not reviewing the video and forming an opinion.

My apologies for lumping you in with the others.

You feel dumb? YOU FEEL DUMB!! Think how I feel!!


Quote:
Ailwon was the only 1 that didn't, and I have to say, I respect him for that.


Need I say more!! :p

Har Har Ailwon!!!! :D

Given that those running for office, many of whom are counting on Bush support and Rovian tactics, echo the hatin' on Kerry approach, it's quite fair.

Given that those running for office, many of whom are counting on Kerry support (why else did he have such a full schedule on the campaign trail), echo the hatin on Bush approach, it's quite fair.

I'm glad we could both agree :)