Obama McCain Forum.

[Lleauric]

Just watched this and was very impressed all around.

What a great relief from the ABC Abortion of a debate. Rick Warren asked intelligent, thoughtful questions and both candidates did an outstanding job.

America wins tonight.

[Rover]

I've seen many barbecue media outlets say that McCain ruled the day. Many are quoted as saying "McCain said what the evangelicals wanted to hear" as if that is a good thing. He said what they wanted to hear, which his REAL record does not reflect and he does not come off genuine.

The only part of McCain that comes off genuine is when he talks about his time as a POW, which has absolutely zero relevance to his abilities as a president, but is undisputedly true. Pretty much anything else he said looked forced or was simple pandering to get the vote in a "I'll say whatever you want to get your vote"

Also, this was not really a "win" for America, this pastor has now strategically placed himself and christianity in the middle of a presidential election further blurring the lines of the constitution and separation of church and state. Just when we almost had the election on substantive real issues it's now right back as the pro-choice / anti-abortion agendas dangeriously close to the main focus. Look where that got us in the last two elections.

[Lleauric]

Yea. McCain pandered a bit. But thats fine. Thats supposed to be his core audience there.

Obama was more thoughtful in his responses and didnt hit on his stump speech like McCain did a few times. McCain was really good though. To think about it in baseball terms... in order to achieve the political objectives of either, Obama needed to get on base, McCain needed to hit a home run.

Both succeeded.

Had McCain stumbled, it would have been a knockout blow for him.

[Haloface]

I dunno, when it comes to McCain, kinda seems like the Turks have a better secular state.

[Rover]

I dunno, when it comes to McCain, kinda seems like the Turks have a better secular state.

Freaking Iran has a more secular state than this guy is sucking up to.

[Sanchek]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/17/182425/709/91/569439

Pastor Warren, the host of last night's forum was just on CNN. In an interview with Rick Sanchez the pastor admitted McCain was not even at the Church for the first half hour of the event. This admission comes as a surprise to those of us who watched the event and were told many times that McCain was at the Church and in isolation.

CNN says they talked to McCain's camp and they said no one in his camp was listening. The honor system, are you kidding me?

[Jedd Corpse]

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Russia invades Georgia and President Bush goes on vacation. Our president has spent one-third of his entire two terms in office either at Camp David, Maryland, or at Crawford, Texas, on vacation.

His time away from the Oval Office included the month leading up to 9/11, when there were signs Osama bin Laden was planning to attack America, and the time Hurricane Katrina destroyed the city of New Orleans.
Sen. John McCain takes weekends off and limits his campaign events to one a day. He made an exception for the religious forum on Saturday at Saddleback Church in Southern California.

I think he made a big mistake. When he was invited last spring to attend a discussion of the role of faith in his life with Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, at Messiah College in Pennsylvania, McCain didn't bother to show up. Now I know why.

It occurs to me that John McCain (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/John_McCain) is as intellectually shallow as our current president. When asked what his Christian faith means to him, his answer was a one-liner. "It means I'm saved and forgiven." Great scholars have wrestled with the meaning of faith for centuries. McCain then retold a story we've all heard a hundred times about a guard in Vietnam drawing a cross in the sand.

Asked about his greatest moral failure, he cited his first marriage, which ended in divorce. While saying it was his greatest moral failing, he offered nothing in the way of explanation. Why not?
Throughout the evening, McCain chose to recite portions of his stump speech as answers to the questions he was being asked. Why? He has lived 71 years. Surely he has some thoughts on what it all means that go beyond canned answers culled from the same speech he delivers every day.

He was asked "if evil exists." His response was to repeat for the umpteenth time that Osama bin Laden is a bad man and he will pursue him to "the gates of hell." That was it.

He was asked to define rich. After trying to dodge the question -- his wife is worth a reported $100 million -- he finally said he thought an income of $5 million was rich.

One after another, McCain's answers were shallow, simplistic, and trite. He showed the same intellectual curiosity that George Bush (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/George_W_Bush) has -- virtually none.

Where are John McCain's writings exploring the vexing moral issues of our time? Where are his position papers setting forth his careful consideration of foreign policy, the welfare state, education, America's moral responsibility in the world, etc., etc., etc.?

John McCain graduated 894th in a class of 899 at the Naval Academy at Annapolis. His father and grandfather were four star admirals in the Navy. Some have suggested that might have played a role in McCain being admitted. His academic record was awful. And it shows over and over again whenever McCain is called upon to think on his feet.

He no longer allows reporters unfettered access to him aboard the "Straight Talk Express" for a reason. He simply makes too many mistakes. Unless he's reciting talking points or reading from notes or a TelePrompTer, John McCain is lost. He can drop bon mots at a bowling alley or diner -- short glib responses that get a chuckle, but beyond that McCain gets in over his head very quickly.

I am sick and tired of the president of the United States embarrassing me. The world we live in is too complex to entrust it to someone else whose idea of intellectual curiosity and grasp of foreign policy issues is to tell us he can look into Vladimir Putin's (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/Vladimir_Putin) eyes and see into his soul.
George Bush's record as a student, military man, businessman and leader of the free world is one of constant failure. And the part that troubles me most is he seems content with himself.

He will leave office with the country $10 trillion in debt, fighting two wars, our international reputation in shambles, our government cloaked in secrecy and suspicion that his entire presidency has been a litany of broken laws and promises, our citizens' faith in our own country ripped to shreds. Yet Bush goes bumbling along, grinning and spewing moronic one-liners, as though nobody understands what a colossal failure he has been.

I fear to the depth of my being that John McCain is just like him.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/18/cafferty.mccain/index.html

[Rover]

Jack Cafferty is great, he pulls none of his punches and seems dead on with this piece.

McCain sounded like a digital voice recorder on play every time he answered a question and as in the past for some reason, probably intelectual capacity, the evagelicals go right for the soundbyte person.

The barbecue media doesn't help with their crap about "the straight talk express is back" LOL...its so sad that it has become laughable. McCain is everything Cafferty said and he keeps pulling up his time as a POW as if that is his biggest qualification to be president when in reality the guy is probably so psychologically scarred from it he is probably bordering on insanity and shouldn't be any where near the oval office.

[akipt]

when in reality the guy is probably so psychologically scarred from it he is probably bordering on insanity and shouldn't be any where near the oval office.:rolleyes:

I'm sure McCain would be more than happy to offer a redo on this forum.

[Jedd Corpse]

:rolleyes:

I'm sure McCain would be more than happy to offer a redo on this forum.

And stupid fucking gullible people like you would think he won!

[akipt]

Jedd, you're worse than a village idiot. At least they have an excuse.

[Rover]

:rolleyes:

I'm sure McCain would be more than happy to offer a redo on this forum.

Well I'm glad McCain said what you wanted to hear. Car dealers must be so excited when you walk in their doors, just say what you wan't to hear and they got you.

I wonder when substance stopped mattering to the republican party?

[Ailwon]

Jedd, Akipt is a lot of things, "gullible" is not one of those things.:D

Didn't catch a lot of it, just highlights really....already made up my mind some time ago who I'm not voting for.:)

[Sanchek]

Judging him on his performance, knowing he probably cheated, is pretty damn gullible.

[akipt]

Jedd, Akipt is a lot of things, "gullible" is not one of those things.:DThanks, I think.

Gullible though? I didn't even watch the forum. Just judging from what I've read, McCain and Obama both did very well... and since this is close to the townhall type of forum that Obama has refused to participate in with McCain, I would think McCain's team would continue to be very happy with this arrangement.

Reading comprehension ftw.

Judging him on his performance, knowing he probably cheated, is pretty damn gullible. Are you saying because he did well in this non-teleprompter type of forum that he must have cheated? I thought it was common knowledge by now that McCain performs (and continues to dramatically improve) without a teleprompter (the exact opposite of Obama.)

[Sanchek]

Have you purposely been ignoring the news?

[akipt]

Have you purposely been ignoring the news?Yes, you told me to.

[Sanchek]

In the case of the Fox News crowd, I suppose being uninformed is better than misinformed.

[akipt]

I'm not a physician, but I bet a dose of lithium would cure your Fox News tick.

[Sanchek]

Let's face it, Fox News is just about the only source in the world that you could be getting this McCain stance from (and the only place you could be avoiding the reality about McCain cheating at the recent forum).

[akipt]

And you know this because you get your news from such reputable cesspools as the DailyKos?

edit: And as far as McCain cheating, I doubt it. Why would he have to? It was his environment. It was the first few questions that McCain was enroute, and it's those two questions that McCain and Obama both already knew ahead of time.

[Sixee]

Yeah Akipt. There's no possible way you could arrive at such a position on your own. I mean any network that doesn't have "Commentary, NOT REAL NEWS" flashing during the opinion segments is just trying to lead people to their conclusions, rather than letting people form thier own.

People that watch the other news channels are savvy enough to figure out the commentary portion, without the flashing words, but not the Fox News crowd.*






*sarcasm

[Sanchek]

And you know this because you get your news from such reputable cesspools as the DailyKos?

Your misdirection-fu is weak. The source has been the horse's mouth all along.

tMvHknC8P-s

Just more of the same lying, cheating, and stealing anything he can get away with out of McCain. It's honestly a bit terrifying to me that so many people are either unable to understand this or are unwilling to accept it.

[akipt]

I can't see YouTube's from work.

Anyway, my point is: your trolling of the DailyKos cesspool (original link for this thread) and then complaining about people watching Fox News is hilarious.

[Sanchek]

Your mistake is assuming that's how I got the link. Strike two for that misdirection attempt.

[akipt]

So? It's not the factual content or veracity of the media source, it's whether you use it or not. At least that's been your argument. Had I linked to something on Fox News like you did DailyKos, you would have had a brain aneurysm.

[Sanchek]

If you have some factual news you want to link from Fox News, I couldn't care less. I've linked a Fox video myself in the past week.

Strike three for your assumptions and misdirection. Are you that scared of trying to find some legitimate defense for McCain?

[akipt]

You can say I've struck out but I beamed you upside the head. I gave you my point of view of McCain and you persisted in the Fox News crowd bashing. And I'll conclude just as I started: Have fun with that.

[Sanchek]

I guess that leaves you back at gullible, thinking McCain just completely uncharacteristically rose to the challenge of sounding coherent?

[akipt]

Nope. It leaves you ignorant of some of his past performances to base judgement upon.

[Sanchek]

Enlighten me. Show us some of these great performances of his.

Bomb-bomb-Iran?

The time he suggested Cindy compete in a wet tshirt contest at Sturgis? LOL (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/08/jenna-bush-wedd.html)?

sK-LEyyf7d4

Listening to him stumble over his own tongue during that is painful enough. Just a few months of him on the campaign trail makes me appreciate Bush's oratory skills.

And, it only gets worse if you actually listen to what he's saying:

“As you may know, not long ago a couple hundred thousand Berliners made a lot of noise for my opponent. I will take the roar of 50,000 Harleys any day, any day my friends,” McCain exclaimed to roars from the crowd.

Rick Gray, an avid biker who is mayor of Lancaster in Pennsylvania, not far from York, said in an Obama campaign statement that McCain was guilty of hypocrisy.

"John McCain should be ashamed of himself, not just for voting against protecting an American company like Harley-Davidson, but then for going in front of a group of motorcyclists in Sturgis and pretending to be one of them," he said.

The statement noted that the local Harley factory was shedding 300 workers, as McCain came to York to press home his message to blue-collar workers that Obama is a dangerous risk for the presidency.

“My opponent doesn’t want to drill, he doesn’t want nuclear power. He wants to inflate your tires.”

Obama had noted that keeping tires inflated and cars tuned was endorsed by both NASCAR and AAA and should be part of any comprehensive plan to reduce reliance on imported oil.

The man is a joke.

You don't have to like Obama (I don't), but watching you stubbornly defend McCain to toe the party line is sad. You're not dumb enough to believe the things you've been posting.

[akipt]

Enlighten me.

... You're not dumb enough to believe the things you've been posting. Why should I? Your attitude is pretty fucking sorry.

[Lleauric]

Haha San.

I saw that. You know the best part of that speech? The delicious irony.

Here McCain is.... giving a speech on the importance of being less dependent on foreign oil.

(paraphrasing here)

"SO HOW MANY OF YOU 50,000 PEOPLE ARE SICK OF PAYING ALOT OF MONEY FOR GAS???? PLEASE UNNECESSARILY REV YOUR ENGINES WHILE STATIONARY AND WASTE FUEL AS A SIGN THAT WE HAVE NO REAL CONCEPT OF THE PROBLEM OR WHY FUEL IS SO EXPENSIVE. NEXT: HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE SICK OF NOT HAVING ENOUGH MONEY? PLEASE LIGHT A 10 DOLLAR BILL ON FIRE AND HOLD IT IN THE AIR"

PS. MY CUNT WIFE CAKES ON THE MAKEUP LIKE A 2 DOLLAR WHORE CAN SHE ENTER YOUR STRIPPER CONTEST?"

[Sanchek]

Why should I? Your attitude is pretty fucking sorry.

Got nuttin, eh?

[akipt]

Yeah San, I stayed up all night looking for a single McCain speech that was coherent. I failed. You win. :rolleyes:

You do realize how weak your argument is right?

[akipt]

Well that wasn't hard.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2008/08/03/20080803speaking0803.html

At the 1996 Republican National Convention in San Diego, John McCain delivered one of his most memorable speeches.
McCain is uneasy in front of a TelePrompTer and, in general, just doesn't look as if he enjoys giving speeches.

Put McCain in the middle of a casual setting, and it's a different story. He comes across as good-humored, unpretentious and self-deprecating and seems to relish mixing it up with voters.

His appearance last month before the National Council of La Raza, a Latino organization, is an example. McCain gave his prepared speech, but when he took questions from the somewhat hostile audience, he generated some electricity.

[Sanchek]

Hmm, maybe it was this one:

GEtZlR3zp4c

Oh wait, no. That's the one where he pulled a Hilary, then confused Iran with Al Qaeda, and flip-flopped 180 degrees on a half dozen other things.

[Sanchek]

Or this one, where he showed Tim Russert what's what?

Ajm5JTf7jZs

Oh, no that was where he (yet again) couldn't keep a single fact about the various wars we're in straight, and got himself owned.

The fact that he's running on the whole Commander in Chief + POW thing just compounds the idiocy of him not grasping the fundamentals of these wars. If that's supposed to be his strength, say goodbye to any shred of hope left for our economy if he got ahold of it.

[akipt]

Now who's misdirecting?

And like I said before, I can't watch youtubes from work.

[Sanchek]

Just close your eyes and imagine Bush without Rove handling him.

[Kelraz Bladesinger]

And the good news is, McCain is caught up in the polls and could very well be our next President. Just what the country needs for another 4 years!

And even after he does an abysmal job, we'll re-elect him in 2012 because we're a bunch of morons who had no problem re-electing someone as inept as Bush 4 years ago.

[Kanyli]

Kelraz, are you trying to pee on my day?

[fildien]

So how is it this thread has stayed when it is no different than Jedd vs. Byl or Fandros vs. Jedd? This is the same crap just Sanchek vs. Akipt. Bleh, I kept scrolling thru pages looking for something interesting and didn't find it on pages 2,3, or 4. Sad.

[akipt]

I agree fildien, that was a complete waste of everyone's time.

[Jedd Corpse]

you guys bitched at him for moderating and this is what you get

[Grift3r]

you guys bitched at him for moderating and this is what you get

Yep: http://ayonae.com/seriously-t11179.html

Although I still don't agree that moderating is the answer. Maybe a ban or two :devil

[Sixee]

I nominate Jedd!

[Bylimet Spiritwalker]

So how is it this thread has stayed when it is no different than Jedd vs. Byl or Fandros vs. Jedd? This is the same crap just Sanchek vs. Akipt. Bleh, I kept scrolling thru pages looking for something interesting and didn't find it on pages 2,3, or 4. Sad.

Well, Fil, let's take the discussion back on track, with what Kelraz posted regarding the polls.

I seriously doubt those polls, considering the extreme limitations on the people they can connect with and the vast amount of folks not available at all to the average pollster. And, I am also keeping in mind the number of disaffected Republicans who are tired of litmus tests on abortion and religion and gun control; who want to see the country managed without enormous debt; and, who want to maintain American values without peeking into everyone's bedrooms on Saturday night to see who they are sleeping with, and on Sunday morning to see if they are getting up and going to church (and which faith).

[velvetsilence]

I cant put much faith in the polling going on. it seems everyone and thier brother in law has a "poll" these days plus the fact that a vast number of likely voters no longer have a traditional bell line i see the sample groups as limited at best.

[DiscW]

you guys bitched at him for moderating and this is what you get

To be more specific people bitched about terrible moderating.

On topic, why would anyone that doesn't work for a 24 hour news network care about polls right now?

Another edit: I went back and reread the thread and the substance to stupid shit ratio for this thread is pretty good for this forum. Sanchek put in some effort and made points.

I dunno what ya'll are bitching about, the tone and content of this thread isn't abnormal in any way. Well, except for the bitching about the tone and content of this thread. People getting in arguments with trolls is what a large chunk of this forum has always consisted of.

[DiscW]

Since we seem to be throwing all sorts of McCain stuff into this thread, there's the recent draft thing.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Senator McCain I truly hope you get the opportunity to chase Bin Laden right to the gates of hell and push him in as you stated on your forum. I do have a question though. Disabled veterans, especially in this state, have horrible conditions [...] My son is an officer in the Air Force, and I am a vet and I was raised in a military family. I think it is a sad state of affairs when we have illegal aliens having a Medicaid card that can access specialist top physicians, the best of medical and our vets can't even get to a doctor. These are the people that we tied yellow ribbons for and Bush patted on the back. If we don't reenact the draft I don't think we will have anyone to chase Bin Laden to the gates of hell.

JOHN MCCAIN: Ma'am let me say that I don't disagree with anything you said and thank you and I am grateful for your support of all of our veterans.


Yes, it's basically just a normal empty non-answer by McCain. But it could be interesting if the quote was used well in an ad or some such.

However, even though the issue of the draft is really thorny it might actually not have much effect. The people it effects are already massively going for Obama.

[Bylimet Spiritwalker]

I have been thinking about this election and the conditions around the globe and within our own borders, and in some ways I am offended that the two primary contenders for the position of leading our nation would agree to this question and answer session with a 'man of god'. It sets a precedent for all future campaigning needing to accommodate religion, which our founding fathers were pretty clear about when they drafted the Constitution.

We are seeing the resumption of "Cold War" politics and maneuvering on the international stage; we have come no closer to stamping out the threat of OBL and AQ due to the wasted effort and energy and expense of invading Iraq; the current administration has sent our economy into the worst deficit in history due to the tax breaks for the rich and big business at the same time as needing to spend ever expanding amounts prosecuting a senseless war; energy costs are continuing to rise; unemployment is continuing to rise; and, people are squabbling about how many homes a candidate owns and the forty year old history of someone a candidate sits on a board with and has occasionally socialized with, rather than what they bring to the office.

With all the challenges facing our nation, and our allies, we need someone who can inspire this country to reach for greatness again; who can inspire us to seek new innovative methods of creating energy and jobs and securing our borders and healing the wounds with our allies this present buffoon has caused.

This country needs to be inspired again, and everything else is business as usual.

Now, who is going to step up and do that? They'll get my vote.

[Rover]

Now, who is going to step up and do that? They'll get my vote.

I'm inspired by Obama and now, with his selection of Biden we will now see the real meaning of straight talk. That said, I was also inspired by Ron Paul and I hope that if Obama is elected he uses Paul in some capacity. We need inspiration mostly through people who tell it like it is and have a viable way of moving forward that takes into consideration the long term also.

I truly hope that people see through the "McCain is a war hero" bullshit that is vomited up everytime the guy is challenged, bottom line is he was a less than average attack pilot who was shot down and spent a war in a POW camp and he has little or no concept of what was going on in that war except in his cell. He is bluntly unqualified to be president in every respect. His advisors are a list of the biggest fleecers of the American public and he is probably the least sincere person I've seen in the past 30 years.

[Lleauric]

Yea,

McCain is already overplaying the POW card.

Every time something negatives happens.... "I was a POW"