It appears that Nancy Pelosi wants to run Washington as normal ( going so far as to suspend discussion on this bill) and is about to run afoul of Obama's vision.

I hope he sticks to his guns on this and gets her and her cronies in line.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/02/democratic-cong.html

That bill is RIFE with pork, pure bullshit that they'd try this given the state of our economy imho.

The amount of "pork" in the bill is really not that large a percentage...BUT I do wholeheartedly agree with you about Pelosi...she is creating a HUGE clusterfuck and is definately becoming a symbol of EVERYTHING wrong with Washington...she sucks so bad that Fandros and I are in total agreement...LOL

Yikes!!

I'd prefer if Obama took people to task on shit that actually mattered, and not bullshit symbolic issues like pork barrel spending.

He's smart enough, and has mentioned on multiple occasions that he understands how little pork barrel spending actually matters. Looks like he's figured out that garnering public support, even when you know it's retarded, is the more astute political move.

I'd prefer if Obama took people to task on shit that actually mattered, and not bullshit symbolic issues like pork barrel spending.

He's smart enough, and has mentioned on multiple occasions that he understands how little pork barrel spending actually matters. Looks like he's figured out that garnering public support, even when you know it's retarded, is the more astute political move.

It's not a bullshit symbolic issue when the processes that lead to such crap is core of the problem.

You've always been a supporter of pork, not sure why when it's a serious issue on each and every bill. Perhaps you're not familiar with the pork attached to this one and the railroading Pelosi did of her own party to push this through.

It's part of the corruption of Washington that needs to change. Maybe then parasites will quit flocking to those positions and actual work can be done.

I'm not a supporter of pork. I'm a supporter of devoting our limited time and resources to shit that actually matters. Pork barrel spending is a drop in the huge bucket that is our federal expenditures.

There are SO many more egregious wastes of money that you nor the public never really hear about because it's much easier to decry the pittance that is pork.

I'm not a supporter of pork. I'm a supporter of devoting our limited time and resources to shit that actually matters. Pork barrel spending is a drop in the huge bucket that is our federal expenditures.

There are SO many more egregious wastes of money that you nor the public never really hear about because it's much easier to decry the pittance that is pork.


There is an expression used in cleaning up processes that applies here.

Clean to detect, detect to correct....we can't see the other shit you can apparently see because of the very apparent bullshit of pork barrel.

Start there, make a bill straight forward and then we can move on. We will never clean up the lice in washington as long as folks like you espouse keep trying to hide it with smaller matters.

Hell is freezing over right this very minute... Fandros and Rover had a bonding moment. I'm kissing my ass goodbye, screw 2012 the end is now.

Okay...

First off, I'll match your saying with another: "All politics is local".

Politicians are elected by their constituents, and in order to be re-elected they must keep their constituents happy. This is often accomplished by ensuring that federal funds are spent within your state or district. This is usually done through OMG pork barrel spending.

So basically you want to get rid of this system. Okay - what's your suggestion to replace it?

Second, what you seem to be saying is that if we get rid of this process, which I can assure you politicians see as much less insidious than you do, that they are going to have some sort of change of heart, and this will result in removing the CULTURE OF CORRUPTION!!!! in Washington?

Sounds like someone bought into the Obama shit more than us raving liberals. Care to explain the trickle down nature of this enlightenment?

Also, could you explain what this means?

we can't see the other shit you can apparently see because of the very apparent bullshit of pork barrel.I guess I don't know enough about it, because I'm not really sure how small level pork barrel spending blinds us to the fiscal retardation that occurs in a quite transparent fashion.

nm you are willfully part of the system. It's clear we'll not see eye to eye on this subject.

For myself , along with the fiscally pissed off folks, we want it changed.

If it's not part of the bill keep it off.

Haha. I'm ONE OF THEM! PART OF THE SYSTEM!!

Sorry, most issues in politics aren't as black and white as you'd like them to be. They are almost always complex, and as such they require a sophisticated and tailored solution.

Just like you can't stick a straw into the ground to suck out oil (Although I think most Republicans still believe this), you cannot just eradicate pork barrel spending and expect anything to change.

If this is not the case, please explain why. If you are not going to, then stop posting in these threads because you're not really bringing much else to the table.

Fandros bottom line is this...What you consider pork I might consider it jobs in Pennsylvania. If there is placed in a bill, lets say, 50 million dollars for a riverfront park in Reading PA I fully understand you see that as pork, I would see it as making Reading nice and creating work for construction companies, landscapers and in the long term Park Rangers and Maintenance people to keep it nice.

I'm not saying you are wrong for not wanting something like that in a bill but Ainwein is right as the "Pork" is such a sliver of it but then again you are right in as we need a starting point...but maybe there is a better point to hammer on.

Fixating on the pork, right now, is like cleaning your guest bathroom's tile grout with a toothbrush while the house is on fire.

Well, this is a visible spot that most Americans see as a problem so at some point it's going to happen.

I wonder if you start making folks responsible for what they vote on if you'll see the same dregs of society wanting the cush jobs.

Fixating on the pork, right now, is like cleaning your guest bathroom's tile grout with a toothbrush while the house is on fire.


Not really an apt analogy but it's what you have so we'll roll with it.

I see it as a foot wide hole in the hull of your row boat. Yes one of your oars is missing and you've suddenly realized you can't swim so you better start either bailing ( the normal govt response) or figure out how to stop that water from pouring in.

This mentality is a consequence of our general inability to comprehend large numbers.

You can understand the relativity of $212,000 for "fruit fly research" because you've had more money than that in your lifetime. It's a fairly tangible concept for you.

The problem comes in when you try to compare $212,000 to 7+ trillion. For most people, million is difficult to understand well (usually overestimated), but doable. However, "billion" and "trillion" are very difficult to grasp, and actually hold about the same weight in peoples' decision making. The snap judgments that form our gut opinions on things simply cannot evaluate those numbers rationally.

This is why you have people stupidly up in arms about $212,000, even though it's less than a hundred thousandth of one percent (another number people can't grasp!) of what we're talking about.

You'd have to spend from now until you were dead to find enough of these tiny, minuscule items to make a dent in the problem. There are far larger fish to fry here, and it's crucial that we prioritize these things properly. We don't have time to be emotional and stupid about this, if we're going to turn it around.

You'd have to spend from now until you were dead to find enough of these tiny, minuscule items to make a dent in the problem. There are far larger fish to fry here, and it's crucial that we prioritize these things properly. We don't have time to be emotional and stupid about this, if we're going to turn it around.

Bingo.

It's hard for me to conceptualize 18 billion dollars. Even more so 10 trillion. And when trying to compare them in relation to each other, it's nearly impossible. The only way to really do it is to break it down into a percent.

That's actually a very helpful point San and I thank you for illustrating that.

However there is another concept when you work in cleaning up processes and it's "taking care of low hanging fruit". Don't lose site of the big picture, the one you and Ain are speaking of, but that doesn't mean you refuse to make the easy gains a target as well.

Low hanging fruit refers to the best bang for the buck. Pick the big, ripe apple near the bottom before you climb to the top of the tree.

Hundreds of politicians fighting over less than one hundred thousandth of one percent of this mess is not low hanging fruit. It's exactly the opposite.

Low hanging fruit refers to the best bang for the buck. Pick the big, ripe apple near the bottom before you climb to the top of the tree.

Hundreds of politicians fighting over less than one hundred thousandth of one percent of this mess is not low hanging fruit. It's exactly the opposite.


No, actually that's wrong.

Low hanging fruit means the one you pick with minimal effort to clean up the branch and move on. You clear the low branches first then move on. I'm not going to argue this area with you again, I've spent far too many years teaching it ;P

It needs to change, and because you and others like you play numerical mummery doesn't change the fact that it's a big mess on every bill.

Line Item Veto, anyone?

No, we can't have that, Bush might misuse it!

Oh.....wait.....!

No, actually that's wrong.

Low hanging fruit means the one you pick with minimal effort to clean up the branch and move on. You clear the low branches first then move on. I'm not going to argue this area with you again, I've spent far too many years teaching it ;P

It needs to change, and because you and others like you play numerical mummery doesn't change the fact that it's a big mess on every bill.

Uh, you just restated what I said...

And god damn that logical math and reason stuff for interfering with your emotional stance on the issue. Carry on with the hand waving.

Not like anyone's going to listen to reason on this until we're way too far in the shitter anyway...

Oh you're such a pretentious slut at times and yes as guilty as anyone for being a royal pain in the ass just because you can.

It's not what you said, you said pick the biggest fruit....I said pick them all. I realize you deal with numbers and can't see clearly with your ears tucked up your backside but the two examples are vastly different.

Ironically, your fixation on the irrelevant semantics here is a perfect example to compare to being fixated on irrelevantly insignificant amounts of pork. Well done!

I would like to see this build more streamlined toward job creation myself and I think the House Dems did a pretty shitty job in putting it together. Thus the reason for the existence of the Senate. I think instead of a bloated $900 Billion stimulus bill, we will probably see a more targeted $700 Billion.

I wouldnt mind seeing Obama and the Senate working in a few tax cuts as well. Even for big business. Cut the Corporate tax rate to 25%. Why the fuck not.

Doesnt really matter though. It will never get the support of many conservatives. It seems a required criteria of being a conservative nowerdays is having an irrational fear of poor people stealing your money. Right after the irrational fear of Terrists hiding behind bushes waiting to attack.

I would like to see this build more streamlined toward job creation myself and I think the House Dems did a pretty shitty job in putting it together. Thus the reason for the existence of the Senate. I think instead of a bloated $900 Billion stimulus bill, we will probably see a more targeted $700 Billion.

I wouldnt mind seeing Obama and the Senate working in a few tax cuts as well. Even for big business. Cut the Corporate tax rate to 25%. Why the fuck not.

Doesnt really matter though. It will never get the support of many conservatives. It seems a required criteria of being a conservative nowerdays is having an irrational fear of poor people stealing your money. Right after the irrational fear of Terrists hiding behind bushes waiting to attack.

I'm in general support of the bill over all. But not the bs that got tacked onto it. It's bad enough the overall idea tends to be to throw future monies at a current problem. Afterall it's our kids that have to foot the biill ;(

How about this....

How about we pretend to invade a made up country with Muslims in it. Film shit on a stage, send it to Fox News to be shown as war porn. Tell the country that the 900 Billion is needed to kill some Arabs. Itll get full Limbaugh/Palin/Osgilliath support. We can even have a victory parade after our victory over, and freeing of, the people of Binladinstan.

Then we can just take the money and spend it on stuff that might actually help the people of this country.

LMAO

Could we use the made of country of Ebonia from the comic strips? It's already ingrained in our culture so it should be easier for us to swallow.


San, it's your inability to recognize the difference between the two that makes it impossible to discuss that area with you. As I said it's out of your wheelhouse apparently and as such I'd just as well be talking to a stump.

Carry on, find a reason to continue your mad on for me.

Low hanging fruit refers to the best bang for the buck. Pick the big, ripe apple near the bottom before you climb to the top of the tree.

Low hanging fruit means the one you pick with minimal effort to clean up the branch and move on. You clear the low branches first then move on. I'm not going to argue this area with you again, I've spent far too many years teaching it ;P

Before today, I would not have imagined that anyone could be so obtuse as to fixate on the semantics between those obviously equivalent statements. You've brought a whole new level of anal to this board. Congratulations.

Are you that worried about avoiding the point? I'll post it again for you:

Hundreds of politicians fighting over less than one hundred thousandth of one percent of this mess is not low hanging fruit. It's exactly the opposite.

If you were to get your wish and our "leaders" were to squander precious time and resources on such infinitesimally small pieces of the budget, you would sink us all. You guys who can't see the big picture need to put on your big-girl panties and join the team, or get out of the way of those who can.

If we're going to avoid unprecedented financial collapse, we don't have time for these trivialities.

Why don't you try talking about something relevant this time, instead of pulling a Bill O'Reilly and yelling at a pointless tangent.

Different perspective:

# One trillion stacked dollars would reach nearly 60,000 miles, one-third way to moon
# Professor: You couldn't spend $1 trillion if you spent $1M a day since Jesus' birth
# All financial market interventions, loans, bailouts total more than $7 trillion

Washington does not care about anyone but themselves, news at 11.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/10/cafferty.house/index.html

Loved this commentary from CNN