No im not selling Aldoar, however I was curious to the general opinions of ayonae ro's players.

Dont want this to be a "flame someones opinions" post or to discuss others peoples opinions, only your opinions!

Basic questions:

1.) Should verant allow selling of characers? (characters not items pp etc)
2.) Do you believe selling characters is a "Noble" thing. IE do you think its a good idea, if you need RL money, are quitting eq or any other spontanious reason.
3.) Do you know anyone that has sold a character. Not know of a character but actually know the person who left.
4.) If you dont think selling characters is a good ides, why do you think not?
5.) If someone was to buy a character, do you think its lame if they get a name change. Do they deserve the "ebay'd" tag?

Try to make these replies short so other players can sift through them quickly. Maybe if we get good responces we can show this post to some verant employees. It may spark some ideas to the opinions and possible things to control selling out of game.


Aldoar... :rollin
www.magelo.com/eq_view_pr...num=551424 (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=551424)

Soon as Buyza posts you'll see flames. If you want it clean, keep it in General.

Anyways.

I've never had a problem with sellers.

Just the buyers.

To clarify, if you're filthy rich and can afford it, go for it and buy a character if you need something to chill with friends. It's no worse then buying a really expensive set of golf clubs.

The thing is, you gotta realize everyone else out there scrimped and saved just to build their own set, so nobodies gonna show you an ounce of respect.

1.) Yes
2.) Noble? dunno. An ok thing to do? Without a doubt.
3.) Yes.
4.) But i do. :p
5.) I don't think people care much anymore if you're ebayed or not, unless you buy a char such as Vallric or Mesha. And even then I think you would be able to prove it was a new player and earn respect among others if you wanted to. However if you buy a character, I don't think it's very likely that you will be liked among the previous owner's close friends.

1- Yes
2- How the fug can profit be noble? I mean are you gonna use the cash to save dying kitten or something?
3- Shitloads
4- None applicable
5- Their property, their rules

1.) Should verant allow selling of characers? (characters not items pp etc) No, because it negatively affects the game, even at this late date.

2.) Do you believe selling characters is a "Noble" thing. IE do you think its a good idea, if you need RL money, are quitting eq or any other spontanious reason.

I think the whole idea of selling virtual property for RL cash to be ludicrous, plus see #1.

3.) Do you know anyone that has sold a character. Not know of a character but actually know the person who left.

Not personally. I do know someone who insisted on giving his account to me when he left the game, but I do not play his characters.

4.) If you dont think selling characters is a good ides, why do you think not?

Because, as Zehn said, everyone else in the game worked hard (or not so hard these days) to level their own characters up, and to learn to play their character classes. Ebaying means that that level 65 toon that just apped to your guild (or joined your group) may or may not know a damned thing about how to actually play their class. And experienced players who buy themselves a 'rez bot' or 'port bot' or 'buff bot' just deprive real people who worked hard to level up their characters out of jobs.

5.) If someone was to buy a character, do you think its lame if they get a name change. Do they deserve the "ebay'd" tag?

I think that it's *preferable* that, if they buy a character, that they name change. Few things are more disheartening than running into what you *think* is an old friend that you haven't seen in a while, only to find out it is someone who may the be the very antithesis of what the former person was. Regarding the latter part of this question, do you mean an actual tag, or just the reputation of being ebayed?

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

you'll see how I feel about it in about 3 weeks.

How the fug can profit be noble

Because not everyone believes that Altruism is a value.

Because the pursuit of personal happiness is NOBLE

I'd only concider the purchase of a toon if I were stinking rich and i'm kinda leary of the whole thing.

Now im more forgiving in the way of just straight items. i have thought about buying plat. the most plat i have ever had at one time in the 4+ year i played was like 5k. of course being a casual player exacerbated that.

you'll see how I feel about it in about 3 weeks.

wtf is that supposed to mean, Xan? Don't tell me we have to have another talk. :( Gimme a shout if I'm home, though I have a butt load of drs appts over the next 2 weeks and I'm going away for the weekend.

The idea of holding it against someone to sell their toon is ridiculous.

Who is one to say, who that person can or can't sell to?
I understand someone who's become attached to their toon they've built from scratch, and would rather just cancel their account than let someone else buy it from them, but to slam ppl like Buyza for making some bread off of computer animated characters is borderline retarded and very childish.

You buy a car, hook it up, put some miles on it. You get tired of it, want the next best thing, you sell it and make some money. It'd be foolish to keep it for "sentimental" value. Fuck that, make that dough while ya still have the chance.

No, they don't mock Buyza for his ebaying habits, they mock him for being a retard.

i am sure there are some who mock him for ebay as well, just not nearly as much who mock him for his retardness

2- How the fug can profit be noble? I mean are you gonna use the cash to save dying kitten or something?

Person A owns a business and makes a profit and hires 1000 other people who use the pay they recieve to support their families, pay their taxes and maybe donate to charity.

Person B owns a business and does not make a profit. Pays no taxes donates to no charity and lays off the 3 people he has hired.


Reflect on this for a bit. It just may change your whole life.

A is A

NOT making a profit is the MOST wost thing you can ever do.

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. But I do
5. You'll still know who it was due to the homepage... so no

eh, i dont feel like answering all the questions... i think if you are quitting EQ, then go ahead and try and make some profit... my account has been thrown around between me and my friends alot, no one ever knows if it's really me anymore. my true friends in EQ dont gimme grief for letting other people play my account, but it's odd how much slack you get from other people. but back to my point, if you're gonna buy an account, it is good to know shit about the class you are getting, because is it just me or are there way too many post 60 people who havent got a fucking clue what they are doing?! i also think if you buy a new account it's probably in your best interest to do a name change, kind of like starting anew for yourself... but i still cannot stress, if you're buying an account, fucking research the class...

Owning a company can't exactly be compared to selling your EQ toon. Whereas sure, you can interpret my statement as a blanket statement, I was in fact referring to the sale of personal property. Although when it comes to companies it's not the profit that's noble, it's keeping the people employed that are. The profit is just a means to it... you fail to acquire profit, you get sucked under, you get it... great for you. But the action of acquiring it is not noble.

Personally I'm everything but altruistic Bowler :) But the pursuit of of personal happiness is selfish. I'm a selfish individual because everything I do, well close to, I do because it benefits me, emotionally or corporeally. Like helping people. I help people because I get warm fuzzy feelings when doing it, if I'd felt like i was getting gang raped while doing it you sure as hell wouldn't see me helping anyone :)

//Kiv

Used to be Kivorn? wtf? :(

And experienced players who buy themselves a 'rez bot' or 'port bot' or 'buff bot' just deprive real people who worked hard to level up their characters out of jobs

How is this true? If that character played frequently before the sale and is bought by someone else who plays frequently, it is a zero sum game.

More than that, you are making the assumption that by playing their bot, they are depriving someone of something when this might not very well be the case- they may have eaten a death, walked to their destination or done without the buffs.

There are still other cases where the bots can make the difference between getting something done and LFG all night- for instance if you can't find a healer or slower, you can bot one, and then up to four other people can be productive with you and your bot, where elsewise nobody would make any progress.

I laugh at people who bitch and moan about people who sell there chartacters. It's there choice to do so and if they want to do so thats cool by me. At the end of your playing time in this so called game, there is NOTHING wrong with selling your character. You want to say it's in the rules that you can not sell anything from this game, to those people, so is driving 55 Miles an hour, but everyone breaks that rule too. So get over it.

I also laugh at people that bitch about someone who has bought a character, some of these same people have been given someone else's character. Whats the differance there? Money and that is it. You still have a character that was leveled up by someone else and now you have control of him/her.

The old, well I put so much into my character and this person goes out and buys a character that is equvilent or better then my character that I have played for 3+ years. Jeliousy, that is all that is. In the whole scheme of life, does it really matter? No

To play a character that you have never played before, who cares about it? If you know the game, you will addapt to your character and learn him like you learned your previous character/s. If you are a DUMB SHIT, then you will always be a DUMB SHIT and it doesn't matter if you created your character or bought it.

I also laugh at guilds that wont take a specific character into thier guild because the character is E-Bayed. Give the person a chance and find out about the person, not the character. It is completely stupid of guilds to have issues with someone that has bought a character. Shit, maybe the new person is a better person or better player then the old person. You will never find out if you don't give them a chance.

On the name change, I think it depends on the new owner of the character.

In my opinion it is not how you got you're char that counts (aslong as it is not by theft etc.) but how you play him.

So I see nothing wrong with trading chars.

You know...I'd think about buying the Mesha account just to freak people out =).

Last I saw, Zillikinx (druid that once apped to Vallis Scortor...might have mispelled his name) had control of the Mesha account.

I don't have a problem with people that lose interest in the game and sell their characters.

I don't have a problem with people that buy characters. I am capable of determining their skills. EQ is not rocket science; I and thousands of other people could pick up a level 65 toon of any class and adjust no problem. On the other hand, there are idiots that somehow got to level 65 without ebay and never figured out how to play along the way...

I do have a problem with people that join guilds to flag/gear up exclusively so they can ebay. And people that ebay with guild gear.

Quote:And experienced players who buy themselves a 'rez bot' or 'port bot' or 'buff bot' just deprive real people who worked hard to level up their characters out of jobs

How is this true? If that character played frequently before the sale and is bought by someone else who plays frequently, it is a zero sum game.

More than that, you are making the assumption that by playing their bot, they are depriving someone of something when this might not very well be the case- they may have eaten a death, walked to their destination or done without the buffs.

There are still other cases where the bots can make the difference between getting something done and LFG all night- for instance if you can't find a healer or slower, you can bot one, and then up to four other people can be productive with you and your bot, where elsewise nobody would make any progress.

I have friend that Bots slower and CC now. We use to get groups with him 3 or 4 times a week. We have lost that group that we use to enjoyed. Also Loot is lost because the Bot is now getting Loot that a live player could of uses. many peeps have give up looking for groups now and joined the mass of botter now because getting group in this game is harder now.

Also Loot is lost because the Bot is now getting Loot that a live player could of uses. many peeps have give up looking for groups now and joined the mass of botter now because getting group in this game is harder now.That's what you get for grouping with shitbags that want "real" loot for their bots.

I now manage the accounts of a 60+ Chanter and a 60+ Cleric. The Chanter hasn't looted since Velious, and the Cleric loots scraps our probationary members don't want.

It also depends what level in which you are playing the game. If you are still leveling up your first toon, I can see how it would be annoying to watch a bot get loot on par with what you have.

If you have been in game for a while and the bot is getting stuff you can't otherwise give away to your guildies... eh, so what?

Quote:And experienced players who buy themselves a 'rez bot' or 'port bot' or 'buff bot' just deprive real people who worked hard to level up their characters out of jobs

I wasn't going to reply, since the original author of this thread wanted this to remain a survey thread, but since my partner-in-crime did while I slept, I guess I'll address it.

There's actually two different concerns being voiced here, both of which I (and Faervas) consider detrimental to the game: the first is selling (or rather, being able to buy) characters, the second is multiboxing (particularly on raids). I'm not bothered nearly as much if someone puts their own time and effort into levelling up and equipping their own toon on a separate account in order to multibox 'solo'; at least it was their *own* time and effort, and they spend their 13.00/month just like the rest of us, yes? Since Sony *does* allow individuals to own multiple accounts, and there are some folks who just really can't handle dependence on other people in the game and wouldn't play with them anyway, it's a small loss in my opinion.

Autonomous Collective, for the record, does not allow its members to multibox on raids (hard policy) or in guild exp groups (out of courtesy), although a few of our members do multibox a fair amount while 'soloing'. While we don't have a hard policy on it, we also try to keep the use of 'convenience bots' to a minimum; if we don't have a shaman that day, we don't have shaman buffs, either. If we don't have a druid, we crawl out of whatever we crawled into (our melees burn through a fair number of Thurg Gate Potions as well ;) ). If we don't have a wizard, we hire a port to Hate/Sky and tell everyone that wiping is not an option. Etc... :) It's all about valuing the characters as *people* in your guild as well as the jobs that they do for you.

A lot of folks view characters in the game as nothing more than 'tools in a toolbox' and so, as Zehn said, what's wrong with buying yourself a really nice set of golf clubs? Nothing, I suppose, but 1) the clubs don't make the player; and 2) if I'm looking to give someone a gig, I'd rather give it to someone who worked hard to make their own and appreciates the experience than to someone who is too lazy even to level up their own toon, even if it means taking a less well equipped/levelled person.

Ebaying (and, in my opinion, multiboxing in exp groups/on raids), while both convenient, cheapen the value of character 'life' in EQ and so are detrimental to the game *as we appreciate it*; others, of course, see things differently.

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

Believe me, as one of those pathetic losers that write 'fanfic' of a sort, though my stories have taken on a life of their own should I ever bother to post them to my site, I've always found myself attracted to EQ far more for the 'social' aspect of the game rather then the twinkly bits of flashy sparkly lights. You may have 8000hp, 7000 mana and 600 AA's, but my comic gets 16 hits daily, so nyah.

The thing with the golf example, is not only will you not like the guy who bought his shiney golf clubs to play with you, how do you know he won't quit the game in two months after deciding it sucks ass? You and your other buddies have been playing for 3 years now, and another guy who just joined your truope played for 2 years on anouther course.

But this jackass hears about how cool golf is, picks up the clubs, realizes he can't play for shit and quits a week later...even though you bought lunch on Friday and it's his turn on Monday.

You can either give the guy a chance, or you can adopt the policy I personally took and just not bother. There are plenty of people who built their own clubs, so why bother with the rich kids.

As for botting, what the hell do I care if the buys or spends the time to build another club? Sure he may be able to kick my ass and I'll look like a shitty golfer compared to him, but I'm out there to smack a little ball around and talk about how much I hate work, not kick his ass. Because if that was the case, I'd take him on in Cribbage instead.

But then again, I've always been a soloist by nature. I've never understood why people feel they have to be in a group to 'socialize.' Last I checked, hitting "/t" worked just as well as "/g" And I'm in 7 channels as is.

Ebaying (and, in my opinion, multiboxing in exp groups/on raids), while both convenient, cheapen the value of character 'life' in EQ and so are detrimental to the game *as we appreciate it*; others, of course, see things differently.

I just want to be clear:

In your view, a person only has the right to play one character and one character alone (at a time) if they are involved in a social/grouping setting?

Hmm.. what if the individual in question was able to give his characters different personalities and roleplay them in a fun and amusing fashion- and played them all well?

You are saying he effort that he put in to multi-box several toons *in the spirit of the game* is ruining the game for you?

I can understand that you may appreciate a roleplaying aspect of the game, and I can even respect that. However, I find it to be highy opinionated and narrow minded if you are saying that playing more than one character at once is ruining the intent and spirit of the game.

selling characters rocks. There is a reason why so many people sell out after they quit EQ.

"In your view, a person only has the right to play one character and one character alone (at a time) if they are involved in a social/grouping setting?"

If they are grouping with me (or with our guild), I prefer this to be the case, but we have made a few exceptions. I haven't said anything about what 'rights' other people should or should not have in the game. Sony allows people to own as many accounts as they please, so if someone wants to multibox in a social setting (and I know people who do), they're certainly entitled to do so; I'd just prefer to be in an exp group where everyone was running one and only one character, regardless of how efficiently they may run multiple boxes (I don't allow people to run multiple characters at the same time when I GM live RPG gaming either, btw, despite the fact that I know folks who can RP multiple characters at once well :) ).

A great deal of pleasure in this game can be found in trying to do encounters with unconventional groups of people; our little guild has not had a monk main of raid level since July 2001, a druid main from July 2001 - March 2003, and our sole wizard and rogue mains are very part-time, and yet we manage to do quite a bit that is challenging and fun with what we *do* have. No-one plays a class just to have that class in the guild, or to be, shall we say, a tool.

"Hmm.. what if the individual in question was able to give his characters different personalities and roleplay them in a fun and amusing fashion- and played them all well?"

If someone actually did this, I'd be more inclined to accept them multiboxing in a group (but would still prefer that spot be filled with an additional real live *person* who wanted a group, or not filled at all). However, I find most of the EQ playerbase to be ill-inclined to roleplay in the first place, and in every exp group or raid I have *ever* been in that involved multiboxing, in the 2 1/2 years that I've been playing, the additional box has been a tool for a job, nothing more. I do know quite a few individuals who have multiple 'main' characters, and play them all well; but they play one and only one of those characters when grouping with us, with one exception (he and I have chosen to agree to disagree on this topic for the sake of our friendship).

To answer your question more directly, I feel that people have the 'right' to do whatever they please with their toons, and that I know that some folks do multibox in a social setting. However, I feel that you misunderstand the thrust of my argument against multiboxing slightly. I feel that multiboxing, *especially* in a social setting, *does* 'cheat' other players who might be looking for a social party, or for experience, or exposure to game content, out of opportunities; Faervas and I have felt it first hand as folks who run 'most frequently botted' classes. Multiboxing also exacerbates the 'dehumanization' and devaluation of characters *as* characters, which is a separate, but also troubling, concern. It's not my call, but yes, in my perfect RPG, folks would be allowed one and only one account.

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

....
I dont care about ebay or not.
I met this guy who was publicly scolded on these forums because he ebayed the acount of someone VERRY unpopular here.
However since I hardly i ever visit these forums I had no idea....
Turns out he was 1 of the strongest players ive grouped with 2 date.
He had always been friendly at least towards me.
So like I said I dont care about ebay.
Personaly despite everything i still consider this game an RPG.
So what level you may start at the only thing I care about is how their story goes I suppose :)

Have a pleasant day
Joe Dalton

*notes Nydia's concern and immediately sets to lighting all his character sheets on fire save for the one who happens to be the highest level.*

Poor Flibblesworth...I knew him well.

There are certain people that suck so much that if/when they sell their character, it is definately a very good thing for the server as the next owner can't possibly be any worse.

Lol Zehn!

Perhpas, to be clearer, I should have continued that last sentence to read: '... one and only one account, with a large number of character slots.' I have no problem whatsoever with people levelling up multiple toons, and pulling whichever one of them out that they feel like playing that day. (Autonomous Collective is a *seriously* 'alty' guild, btw, and many of us spend as many nights running around on lower level toons as on 'mains' :) ).

If I were going to start my very own MMORPG from scratch though, I'd want users to only be able to own one account. Call me either silly or a purist, but in the text MuD I played and later gameoped for 5 years, the permitting of folks to play multiple accounts/characters *at the same time* resulted in strong negative consequences for the health of the game and its community, and while the effects are buffered somewhat in EQ by the fact that a given server community is larger, it still has an (negative, in my eyes) effect on that community and how (and what) the folks see characters in it as. It may be a *fact* of life in a four old game, but I still don't have to like it ;) .

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

On the other hand Nydia, multiple toons did allow people that wouldn't normally to go get groups to go take care of business itself. And you wouldn't be able to keep people from two-boxing anyways, seeing as how I have access to over 9 accounts, and only one is under my name.

Don't get me wrong, it's a noble ideal. Enough groups for everyone and everybody does their best! But I've been in enough groups before to the point where it's just not worth it. The 'social' aspect isn't any greater save that you can now 'watch' someone fuck up instead of them saying 4 minutes later, 'haha...I just mez'd myself, again.'

I personally prefer soloing. I don't have to rely on anybody else to hold up their end. I never worry about some guys kid getting suddenly sick and having to pull the group over to the side of the road because Missy Eliot has to go pee again.

Two...or when I'm frisky three...-boxing just makes the path easier so I can get to a level where I can actually enjoy the game again. I'm sorry, but as a former wizard, used to doing 3~7k damage every 7 seconds soloing, doing 200 per tic just doesn't thrill me. If I can save myself a months worth of effort and just park a druid there to cast regen on me or use my friends wizard to quad while I soak.

I don't think there's anything inherantly evil in this. It was pretty bad during the late luclin era when Clerics were getting the shaft on groups thanks to two-boxing melee... but they deserved it after spending 8 months charging me 250pp for rez's in Lguk back in the day.

This game would need far more re-structering of the classes if they were to limit a real life person to only playing one character at a time. (Despite the fact that Verant would have no way short of video identification to tell if someone was sitting at each computer. And even then, what happens if one person has to go take a shit and misses the next checkpoint? He/she goes LD.)

It's a pretty concept, that we all live in a miraculous harmony. But until you can eliminate the 80% of the EQ population that consists of morons, it won't happen. I'll take my two-boxing, thanks.

I don't think selling items or plat for cash is bad. But something about selling a char. just doesn't feel right. There is alot of hard work going into building a character. You are not only buying a lvl and gear from someone but also buying a reputation. I would hate to see someone ruin the reputation I tried to build while in EQ. You are not only selling your time but the time of your friends that helped you acquire such gear. My view might be swayed though because I grouped with the same people almost every night.

That being said, If I was to ever come back to eq, I would probally buy an account for no other reason than some accounts on @#%$ sell for less than the game + expansions.

Nydia-

Your stance on running multiple characters at once (which I do, often) somehow "ruining" the game is what threw me. From a roleplay perspective (and hey, roleplay is *good*) I'm inclined to agree with you. However, Zehn also has a good argument, and I have one of my own:

Without two boxing, Prism never would have survived as long as it did, much less doing things that we never thought we'd do as a "social" guild. That said, I'll always log off my cleric and free up a spot for a real healer- or even leave him outside of the group and take another main who is not a healer so they get the XP.

The only thing I'd like for Sony to do is compare how many unique individuals are playing (rather than how many accounts there are) and base some of their figures off of that.

I sold Mirr (65 wizard) in March. I played him for 4 years in some of the biggest guilds (Combine, Shadowed Fates, Eternal Wrath, and SoT) in the game. I feel sad sometimes that I sold him but I had to leave the game at that time due to real life problems with someone in the game I worked with. I have since bought another character and am having more fun than I did before. It isn’t easy is some ways because I had a pretty good reputation and now I need to work it back up. I have only met 1 person that has said anything negative about me Ebaying everyone else has been very friendly.


Thanks, Mirr :)

Its really scary when I go to zones and see former EW toons killing rats and stuff.
" Amidget Backstabs a pusling for 2500+ damage ! "
funny as hell.
They make good DPS outside the group when we exp. though.

I have nothing theoretically wrong with people who sell/buy characters.

I just wish they didn't do it in the game I play, or at least on the server. =/

Provide a service that places ebayed toons on their own server, identical in all respects except it is full of ebay folk. If you have to, merge old servers if the population falls too much. But, I want the X I ran into 1 year ago to be person X, and I want the L 65 SK I invite into my group to have put in the hours being a tank.

Now, a trade embargo is unfortunetally hard. We have two goods that people can ascribe value to and transpher (even without official permission), and halting trade becomes a very difficult problem. Which is why I'm saying what I wish would happen -- I can't figure out how to solve the problem.

But then again, I've always been a soloist by nature. I've never understood why people feel they have to be in a group to 'socialize.' Last I checked, hitting "/t" worked just as well as "/g" And I'm in 7 channels as is.

Because goal-directed communication is more natural to some.

It is the difference between getting together to gossip, and getting together to bowl. You end up doing the same amount of conversation, but the bowling game provides a goal and a contect to the conversation.

I can see trying to bring the one account argument into the bean counters and VC's that give you the money to start this up..."Excuse me? You said you WANT to keep people from buying more copies of your game?"

I would prefer ALWAYS having non-botted characters in my group, but there have been times I've fired up a cleric because I *could not* find a single LFG cleric. Even then, I don't want my healer with his attention split if I can avoid it at all. It was the difference between sitting on my ass or doing something interesting.