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Thormir
02-19-2008, 09:08 AM
Musharraf has said he'd abide (http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSISL25056920080219) by the decision, but were I Nawaz Sharif, I wouldn't take a shower without a bodyguard. Might bump your head to death.

akipt
02-19-2008, 09:25 AM
The expected over-the-top vote manipulation never really materialized - ie Putin or Chavez. I think if Musharraf wanted to retain power, that would have been the time to do it.

Of course, he's no Putin and probably couldn't get away with it. But he still has the nukes no?

Thormir
02-19-2008, 09:50 AM
He certainly has them today -- will he have them tomorrow? It's as difficult to see a new parliament letting Musharraf play a key role in the new government as it is to see Musharraf giving it up. According to the article: "While it was not a presidential election, a hostile parliament could try to remove Musharraf."

Some other generally good news from the elections:
At least 20 people were killed, but that was not as bad as feared after a bloody campaign.
...
A secular ethnic Pashtun nationalist party was winning in North West Frontier Province. Islamist parties that won in 2002 were soundly trounced as moderate forces re-established their influence on Pakistan's most militant-prone region.

Fandros
02-19-2008, 10:51 AM
I'm obviously needing to learn more about the parties that will be taking power there.

Unrest usually allows/leads to violence + growing push for Shyria (spelling) law and you find me thinking this could be very bad...

Thormir
02-19-2008, 11:10 AM
The election results directly opposed any kind of move toward extremism, whether it be Musharraf's military rule or religious fanaticism. As much dislike as there is currently for Musharraf, his party (PML-Q) still came in third, with PML-N (Nawaz Sharif's party) in second. Bhutto's Pakistan People's Party came in first in elections, but not enough to push an agenda without coalition building.

But what I quoted above about the North-West Frontier Province is echoed in the Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/19/world/asia/19pstan.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&hp):But Washington could take some comfort in the losses of the Islamic religious parties in the North-West Frontier Province that abut the tribal areas where the Taliban and Al Qaeda have carved out bases.The exact opposite of your fear obtained, as secular parties fared well against religious parties in a highly religious province. And while there is unrest (must of it due to Musharraf's heavy-handedness), the election period wasn't as violent as many feared. Rule by Sharia is unlikely, especially if democracy, a middle-class, and a functioning economy continue to build.

Fandros
02-19-2008, 11:32 AM
If that's the case Thor it certainly shows that I do indeed, as I stated ;P, need to learn more about the parties.

I hope it's true, if Pakistan moves away from the violence and such it'll only mean good things in the long run.

Wiggo da troll
02-19-2008, 11:32 AM
whats most likely now is a coalition between PPP and PML-N, assuming that they can make a deal on who becomes PM, possibly moving to launch a vote of no confidence (no idea what kind of majority you need in pakistan, but its usually 51% of parliament) on musharraf, which could create a massive shitstorm. i think i read in the paper that, if they got a 2/3rds majorit, they could start changing the constitution, removing power from the presidency and so forth.

while the election result is "good" for the west, the voter turnout was still only 35%, which is considered normal in pakistan.

(edit: fixed some shit)

akipt
02-19-2008, 11:34 AM
The gains by the moderate secularists in the outer provinces are colored by the fanatics boycotting the election I believe. I think we should heed the lessons learned from Iraq for this.

The two parties that ran against Musharraf have a clear majority now though, and I just learned it's not enough to remove him from power even if they formed a coalition (which they probably will have to if they want to accomplish any real changes.) So obviously the power has shifted, but not radically.

Overall, like much of the middle east, none of the parties are corruption free. Certainly Bhutto did not have a clean past... but when Al Quida is trying to blow you up, you have to be doing something right.

Probably a good day overall for Pakistan.

Thormir
02-19-2008, 11:39 AM
Good overall, yes, and you're probably right about the Frontier fanatics (sounds like a Taliban Olympic basketball team) avoiding elections. PPP and PML-N have major disagreements, but they do agree that Musharraf needs to be as out of the picture as possible, so I think any coalitioin will start from that perspective and move outward. A difficult time for their country, but the voters have spoken wisely, and hopefully will grow in confidence for the next election.

akipt
02-19-2008, 11:47 AM
It's the northern provinces and their turnout that I'm most curious about. I read they were boycotted... but I haven't seen the numbers for them. Same or higher would be a good sign I think...

Thormir
02-19-2008, 12:25 PM
Not finding any province specific info. A couple things:
Here (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/PoliticsNation/Low_voter_turnout_in_Pakistan_poll/articleshow/2792863.cms) would suggest that voting in the NWFP didn't go smoothly:Militants in the restive northwestern areas attacked polling stations with bombs and rockets, though there were no casualties, officials said.

There were also reports of people being intimidated and prevented from voting in some places. At Badin in Sindh, some persons allegedly snatched polling materials and forcibly stamped ballots. At Bannu in NWFP, militants kidnapped some poll officials.
Also, some observers felt that PML-Q was doing what it could to rig the elections:There was extensive evidence, however, that the party sought to influence the outcome in the weeks before voting through its district administrators, particularly in Punjab Province, in violation of election laws that the pro-Musharraf federal election commission is accused of failing to enforce.

The administrators have been giving away jobs, announcing new development schemes, using the police to intimidate voters, openly campaigning for candidates and providing them with cars and offices, according to experts and opposition officials.If so, it didn't do them much good.

EDIT fixed link

velvetsilence
02-19-2008, 08:40 PM
Wanna belive in the best here, but gonna leave the cork in the Champaing bottle for now.