Anyone else think this is BS?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24893369/

The line about paying into it like unemployment is what bugs me. That better be an opt in/opt out thing b/c I don't want to be funding parent_01 to take time off for that kid_04 b/c they keep popping them out.

I already get taxed to hell, I have over $1000 in deductions each pay check. I can't afford to have anymore being taken from me b/c someone thinks we should pay for people to take time off. Plan your damn vacations or don't have kids and expect others to support your time off. This really pisses me off.

But on the flip side, imagine you or your spouse has a child but neither of you can afford to take time off work. Should the infant from day 1 sit in day care? (is that even legal?)

Should you have kids if you can't raise them properly? Or, perhaps some planning should go into the process rather than just popping them out?

I'm tired of paying for people who can't afford things, it's unjust punishment.

Come on fildien, you know it Takes a Village (tm)

I make around $100k a year. My girlfriend makes around $50k. If she didn't get paid leave (which she does, not that I'm gonna impregnate her any time soon thank god) that's around $15k. If I wanted to take time off (my boss doesn't pay me shit since its me) my company is out around $30k. Thats $45,000 not going to my mortgage though we'd still have a ton more expenses with the addition of the child.

And we are doing VERY well compared to the average 20something couple. I know if I couldn't afford it, almost no one can. So the alternative is ... get that fatty out of the hospital bed, she has to be back at work tomorrow! Sounds a little barbaric to me.

Not that people should exploit it. I can't imagine taking more than a week or two off to help get settled, and I would imagine my spouse would take probably the full 12 weeks, so the cost extents aren't as high as that, but they're still pretty high.

Also, in the grand scheme of state taxes your personal compensation is nominal at best. I bet numerically it'd work out to you paying a few dollars a month, most of the income from this would come from taxes assessed to businesses and corporations operating in your state.

there is a HUGE difference from having the financial ability to raise a kid and the financial ability for the initial birthing process.

Also, there is no 100% foolproof anti-pregnancy practice that married people can realistically do. Everything has a chance. My sister was high risk to not live through a pregnancy, she was on the pill and he used condom, and that .1% chance happened.

I make around $100k a year. My girlfriend makes around $50k. If she didn't get paid leave (which she does, not that I'm gonna impregnate her any time soon thank god) that's around $15k. If I wanted to take time off (my boss doesn't pay me shit since its me) my company is out around $30k. Thats $45,000 not going to my mortgage though we'd still have a ton more expenses with the addition of the child.

And we are doing VERY well compared to the average 20something couple. I know if I couldn't afford it, almost no one can. So the alternative is ... get that fatty out of the hospital bed, she has to be back at work tomorrow! Sounds a little barbaric to me.

Not that people should exploit it. I can't imagine taking more than a week or two off to help get settled, and I would imagine my spouse would take probably the full 12 weeks, so the cost extents aren't as high as that, but they're still pretty high.

Also, in the grand scheme of state taxes your personal compensation is nominal at best. I bet numerically it'd work out to you paying a few dollars a month, most of the income from this would come from taxes assessed to businesses and corporations operating in your state.

Probably won't get exploited at all! Wellfare is working out great ;)

Probably won't get exploited at all! Wellfare is working out great ;)

Welfare is a lot different today than in years past. Like unemployment there were tons of cases where it was exploited but I believe the average time someone is on unemployment now is around 2 weeks.

I haven't read the legislation but being pushed by a Republican governor I can only hope and imagine there are a wave of safeguards and the pay really is less than you'd make if you went to work.

How many years have people been doing it without needing paid time off from others funding it? Honestly if you want a kid and 10 other people at your company does so be it you guys can have dedutions taken from your check so that you can equally share the benefit. I however, do not, will not, need this. I do not see how folks can actually have the gumption to ask other people to fund their maternity leave.

I do quite well, as does Leah who is also in business for herself and her own boss. We actually went thru fertility stuff in November/December last year only to find out neither of us are good candidates for getting turkey baisted our ovaries are picky and I don't feel like spending 1k a squirt so to speak rofl. Anyway whole other topic, just saying I don't want to pay for people to be fertle myrtles.

I don't feel like spending 1k a squirt so to speak rofl.

:eek: I think I could have gone all day with out reading that...lol

If we are going to go down this road, how long will it be before we have the pendulum swing to the opposite side, and start demanding the Chinese policy of limitations on child bearing? People are not going to sit still for funding someone else's family in this manner, along with all the other warm, fuzzy feel-good programs and such we already have forced on us via tax deductions.

Paid family leave, like healthcare, is disappearing from businesses as they keep profit margins down to compete with international rates (china, india). Its really a modern thing to not get paid leave as a benefit that used to be standard.

Again, you aren't paying for it more than a few dollars a month at most ... so what's the problem? Didn't we just have a thread about how the top 1 percent has all the wealth, and now redistributing that by making corporations and businesses paying for all types of health care through taxes is a bad thing?

So you are satisfied with having deductions taken from your check?

Those people in the top 1% didn't get where they are by funding people below them. It's my money, I earned it. I should be allowed to say if I want someone dipping into my pockets.

Damn Breeders!

I am with Fil on this. We must stop the slow bleed of our paychecks. I work for an employer who historically pays significant less than other like buisness..HOWEVER they supplement that with incredible benefits that allows my spouse and I to take off if we have a new born, paid.

I'm against any further bill/law that takes money out of my checks to support those who chose to live beyond their means.

Hell I'm all for getting rid of the deductions given by those who are married and have children.

Screw this idea.

Ask not what you can do for your government, but what your government can do for you.

To risk sounding cliché, you are complaining about mole hills in mountains. 10 percent of your paycheck goes to fund the Iraq war. .001 percent would fund this. Nearly half percent goes to pay farmers to not grow corn or to pay for your police department to hold and try people in posesion of pot. If you want to complain about something you're not even in the right ball park.

10% on Iraq War? I think not.

Fund your own damned days off.

Getting things back on track requires drawing a line somewhere.

Getting things back on track requires drawing a line somewhere.

ding ding ding winner

it's not about what we're already being nickel and dimed for it's about what we could be if we let this happen. we have to stop letting this shit happen at some point.

Getting things back on track requires drawing a line somewhere.


The question is what is the right line to draw? how much is paid out of a paycheck to fund welfare and social programs, and how much is taken out to fund Exxon/Mobil or to fund Haliburtons move to Dubai. Don't forget that there is a large amount of money that goes to corporate welfare.

For some reason it's A-OK to shit upon those that need an uplift but not to complain about the corporations that get handouts? So, the question is...where should that line be drawn. And the war in Iraq does take a huge amount of funding, but Akipt is right it doesn't take 10% out of our paychecks...Bush made sure of that by his tax cuts in a time of expanding government spending. The paychecks that will be most drained by the war are our childrens.

No one's saying those other things are okay, but we got to this point by allowing marginal increases for nearly a century. Drawing a line in the sand against any further encroachment is necessary to ever have a hope of loosening the noose.

Fund your own damned days off.

non-rich people dont deserve a vacation.
edit: or the possibility of raising children and still having the luxury of food.

Wiggo,

If you can't afford them don't breed'em.

It's not my lot in life to suffer further encroachments on my lifestyle because Joe Breeder decided to have 10 kids.

I had one because I knew more would push the envelope of what I was able/capable of supporting.

We're not quite a socialist country yet, wait for the next 8 years and maybe we'll be there.

We keep pushing this line and forcing folks to work two incomes to support their growing clutch of kids and we'll see further declines in education and a most definate decline in kids with strong family morals.

On one note this is a piece of state legislation which is VERY laughably easy to lobby for or against. Your delagates or representatives probably only get half a dozen oppinions from citizens on these issues.
But state money goes mostly to tourism and building up corporations in their state and a trivial ammount to parks and recreation, education, social and welfare programs. The balance is absolutely retarded. Chiming up about the welfare programs and ignoring the dozens of corporate programs (even most state grants go to corporations and businesses through NPOs and NGOs) is hurting worse than anything.

I'd love for Virginia to adopt this or any program that make it easier to live for the middle class instead of the upper class. It boggles the mind that anyone wouldn't unless you are pulling that upper class income.

non-rich people dont deserve a vacation.This country was built by people who never had a vacation in their life. I think you'll be ok.

Wiggo lives in a nanny state doesn't he? His viewpoint is backed by that perspective, one that wouldn't work here.

Kelraz, I'm middle class. Have been since I got out of the military in 92.

I absolutely don't condone Uncle Sam deciding what to do with my money anymore than he already does. Anyone that does think that's a good thing hasn't watched our govt mispend our $$ for the last what...50 years?

True Fandros, but think of the things government funds that works great.

Fire departments used to only save your house if you paid them off first and wore a plaque saying you did on your home.

We have had since the birth of this country ways to send packages safely across the country without doing it ourselves.

We have roads, libraries, schools, and parks for use by citizens for free. We have protection and justice. We have representation in setting the laws that govern ourselves. We have local protection from natural disasters.

We have grants to encourage our citizens in the arts and sciences. To help charitible organizations and societies keep our cities cleaner and healthier.

We have safety nets to help if suddenly your job disappears, you get sick or injured, and even if your significant others pass away.

Should we not pay for the police if we never get robbed? Should we not pay for the libraries if we can not read?
Should we only pay for the fire department when our house is on fire (and if they go out of business and aren't around when this happens there's always buckets and water)?

Akipt was right, albeit sarcastic. It takes a village. If local governments want to provide for their citizens instead of using all of their money to pay subsidies encouraging tourism and business or paying their lobbiest friend's salaries through hefty contracts ... they should. We'll never agree here, and I'm surprised you all rarely speak out and most likely have never lobbied against government waste on a corporate level but if something is gonna take fifty cents out of your paycheck but helps some less fortunate families take time off work to raise their newborn its like the anti-Christ cometh.

Ah, the child free folks come galloping out.

I'm tired of paying for people who can't afford things, it's unjust punishment.

One of the neat things about social security systems that a lot of people forget about is that if people get hungry and desperate enough, they will come and try to take shit from people who have the things they need. While not 100% germane to family leave time, it is something that you should keep in mind.

Also, for all of the folks trumpeting about folks abusing the system, how many people do you know of yourself who are doing it? Have you reported them to the authorities yet?

hey I'll give everyone one freebee, its the people who know they cannot afford another child, yet take ZERO steps to prevent it, hell they spit in the face of people who tell them cannot.

I know one for sure, he is my brother. Handicapped by an accident in his early 20's and lives of title 19. He not only lives of that but he decided to get two (sarcastic) wonderful women pregnant and father children with them. He has nothing to offer, the women he impregnated live off the state as well. My brother knows better, but doesn't care. So yea you want off of work for a secind child, you have 9 months to prepare, get a third job and work around the clock. Or like I pointed out, find a job the offers time off and work hard at it, and earn that paid off time.

Fire departments used to only save your house if you paid them off first and wore a plaque saying you did on your home.

We have had since the birth of this country ways to send packages safely across the country without doing it ourselves.

We have roads, libraries, schools, and parks for use by citizens for free. We have protection and justice. We have representation in setting the laws that govern ourselves. We have local protection from natural disasters.

We have grants to encourage our citizens in the arts and sciences. To help charitible organizations and societies keep our cities cleaner and healthier.

We have safety nets to help if suddenly your job disappears, you get sick or injured, and even if your significant others pass away.

It makes no sense to compare emergency services, like fire and police, to something like the government paying you to have babies.

Too many safety nets simply cause people to become complacent. Why save up a safety net of my own, when I could be out buying a new car or plasma TV? If I lose my job, everyone else will support me!

It's no wonder the national savings rate is currently lower than it was during the Great Depression. Those who have gumption are taxed to hell and back, to support those with none.

Wait, are the same people who complain about immigration complaining about supporting people having kids?

What's the disparity?

I don't want my tax dollars supporting illegals and I sure don't want to fork up cash to folks who breed past what they can support.

Flat tax system would cure that shit. No matter how many you have you're the only one responsible for them!!

flat tax system is a completely retarded idea though.

Wiggo is right. If you appreciated how progressive our current tax rates are (even more so under Bush 2) you wouldn't want a flat tax ... or you'd qualify it by wanting it flat at the lowest rate we have now anyway.

Hell I'll go for a two-fer. Malse is right. It's a fact, the more populated urban countries / regions have fewer children. You have to show up to the future to have one. Make more love people, it's crucial :)

Nah it's not retarded Wiggo, you'd have to live in this system such as we do now to understand that a single father sans home is paying a retarded amount of taxes ;(

Of course I prefer the National sales tax option (freetax.org) much more over our current system which is so insane, complicated and rife with loop holes its no longer feasable.

Our tax system most definitely is horrible right now. This year I had to pay my accountant $800 to tell me I need to pay the government $3900.

My tax burden....$90,000.00 I'll go with a flat or consumption tax.

Ask not what you can do for your government, but what your government can do for you.

Or did you mean "what your government can do TO you"?

Ah, the child free folks come galloping out.



Hardly, but try again.

Hardly, but try again.

I call it like I see it, and I wasn't talking directly about you (since you're admittedly not child free). It was the "damn breeders" comment by Ibudin, which I decided to take at face value. However, I did err in using your quote after that without qualifying I wasn't directing the statement at you. My bad.