http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8030292.stm

- Arms race or what, eh?

The paper said that the US would remain an indispensable ally. But it said that China's military build-up - if it remained unexplained - could be a cause for concern in the region

Good on ya Mate.


yea sorry that was a very bad Aussie imitation.

Might have sounded OK. Who will ever know?

Well, I am happy to hear this.

With all the crap jumping in the region it only makes sense for Australia to take measures to strengthen it's ability for self defense. And China's move toward a naval presence that can project it's military might should cause all the countries in the region to start building up defensive capabilities.

While India and Pakistan remain a frightening flashpoint in the area, I still think that something is going to get nasty with North Korea that will result in sides being chosen and alliances will be renewed, destroyed, and made with unlikely partners. The aftermath of what could be the end of North Korea as a sovereign country (with Korea becoming a single country once more) may well determine who was smart to initiate a military buildup now.

Of course, this could be the wine talking.

'Of course, this could be the wine talking.'

- I'm a bit of a connoisseur. What wine ya drinking?

Oh, and I agree with a lot of what you said. I've always thought those potential 'giants' who showed much metal in WW2, Canada, Australia, are going to be serious players in the next half century.

'Of course, this could be the wine talking.'

- I'm a bit of a connoisseur. What wine ya drinking?

Oh, and I agree with a lot of what you said. I've always thought those potential 'giants' who showed much metal in WW2, Canada, Australia, are going to be serious players in the next half century.


A 2006 Malbec from the Piattelli vineyards in Argentina. It is my wine of choice with red meat. It has good body, but is lighter than the Merlots that everyone wants to recommend as the proper wine.

And being I have cut back on red meat, my wine stock consists mainly of Chardonnay, Sauvignon Blanc and Reislings which I enjoy with my love of salmon and shrimp. I really enjoy Silver Birch SB out of New Zealand, if I were to make a recommendation. :p



My doctor would drop me as a patient if he saw this, hehehe.

Oh christ, chardonnay, don't touch the stuff.

A malbec is a fine, fine choice. Funny you say that, too, I'm utterly into South American wine right now - think it's the month for it. I had a bloody nice dark, ruby, chocolate Chillean Malbec on Friday, was to die for. And there ain't nothing better with it than a rare steak :P

But then, I am really a red wine kinda guy. I just bought four cases of a great Australian Shiraz, 2006, Mountbridge Reserve. The Merlot is also delicious, but I find it a bit weaker than the Shiraz (which is odd, I know). Try it, you'll love it if you like deep, smokey wines.

But then, I am really a red wine kinda guy

Funny, while i'm not a wine person at all. if i do it has to be a red. cant stand whites at all.

Rare is the only way to go! well done is a term best used for Pork. and dont get me started on steak sauce.

Funny, while i'm not a wine person at all. if i do it has to be a red. cant stand whites at all.

Rare is the only way to go! well done is a term best used for Pork. and dont get me started on steak sauce.


I was out for dinner some time back, and ordered some prime rib rare. They brought the plates to the table, and I looked at my cut, took the knife and fork to it, and told them to put this in a doggie bag for my pet, and to please bring me a rare piece as I had ordered. I hate being an ass, but when I am paying good money for a meal, and ask for rare meat, I do not want barely pink meat brought to me.

Prime rib is passable at medium rare, I suppose, but to do the cut justice is to only serve it rare.

Call me a snob. /shrug


And Halo, what was the name of the Chile Malbec, please?

U R A snob.

The proper way to ask for a rare steak out in cow country:

"How do you want your steak?"

"Cripple it and bring it on in."

Funny, while i'm not a wine person at all. if i do it has to be a red. cant stand whites at all.

Rare is the only way to go! well done is a term best used for Pork. and dont get me started on steak sauce.

I like Pinot Gris. They are much more mild than a traditional white wine, with a slight sweet fruit taste.

Oh, and I agree with a lot of what you said. I've always thought those potential 'giants' who showed much metal in WW2, Canada, Australia, are going to be serious players in the next half century.

I doubt that very much. While both countries are geographically large and are relatively prosperous, their population base (and therefore their potential for military strength) is pretty small. Added together, their population is still smaller than the UK for example. To become "serious players" they would need to be able to punch far above their weight, and you just can't do that these days without nuclear weapons (which both countries have rejected as an option). In short, despite Australia's blurb on self reliance, they would need US intervention if they ran into trouble with a more aggressive China.

Wine is ok I guess, I never know what to drink with what so I just drink whatever someone says should go well with my meal. I'm more of a beer/sake/liquor chick. I had some fabulous microbrew this weekend.... Lancaster Strawberry Wheat.

Wine is ok I guess, I never know what to drink with what so I just drink whatever someone says should go well with my meal. I'm more of a beer/sake/liquor chick. I had some fabulous microbrew this weekend.... Lancaster Strawberry Wheat.


Have you ever had the chance to try (I may be wrong on spelling) Sapporo beer, from Japan? Rice is substituted for the normal grains, and it is super smooth. But if you drink a couple too many, thinking the nice smooth beer is wussy, look out next morning 'cus it can kick your ass. :p


And Gulor, while I agree with the contention that population is an important factor when considering military might, I still think that a strong defensive capability such as Australia is assembling can be a deterrent to any other country that might be considering expansion.

I love Sapporo. Tsing Dao is another good one too. have those whenever i go out for chinese food. american style only i'm too chicken shit to to china town and order off a menu not in english.
Sounds like a good beer Fil, how does it compare to Pete's wicked strawberry blonde? a personal favorite of mine.

While the Aussies couldnt stand alone against china for any length of time they do have one thing the Canadians lack wich is the will to stand strong and fight back hard coupled with your typically over sized Aussie nutsack's.
As a stand alone military overmatched. as more heavily armed wingman to the US and Nato. a definate plus.

And Gulor, while I agree with the contention that population is an important factor when considering military might, I still think that a strong defensive capability such as Australia is assembling can be a deterrent to any other country that might be considering expansion.

Agreed, but a strong defensive capability is a far cry from being a "serious player". That requires the ability to project power.

Agreed, but a strong defensive capability is a far cry from being a "serious player". That requires the ability to project power.

Agreed.

Agreed, but a strong defensive capability is a far cry from being a "serious player". That requires the ability to project power.

It depends what your goals are. If your continued existence is a big enough problem and yet getting rid of you is infeasible, you don't need any real power projection to greatly alter regional politics -- for a great example of this, see North Korea, for different reasons, India.

Australia won't be giving gunboated marching orders to anybody, but they can still represent a strong reason for China, India, et al to play nice. It doesn't take a carrier fleet to threaten export-oriented economies whose trade routes go right by you.

I hate to point it out, both India and North Korea have the ability to project power via missiles and now nukes. In the case of India, they have a credibly large navy and airforce to be a problem for anyone. Bad example.

In the case of Australia, the trade routes from China *don't* go right by Australia (except, of course the route to Australia itself). They go through Indonesia (Straits of Malacca) and towards the US. Currently Australia could probably mess with Indonesia to interfere if necessary as they lack anti-sub capability, but would get stomped if they took on China in even a regional tussle. The Australian subs are diesel, not nuclear, so they have to surface to recharge batteries. They are best suited for defense of their own waters and become vulnerable under the threat of enemy air patrols. In other words, they are not very good at projecting power.

You're missing the point. Neither India or North Korea have historically had, or have now, any ability to point weapon systems in more than a "nyah nyah" fashion at anyone but their neighbors, and no one with impunity. No one lives in fear of India nuking them except Pakistan -- which is about the only country India can do anything at all towards.

That's not the diplomatic pressure I'm talking about, if it was purely a "power projection" question then North Korea would have ceased to be relevant decades ago, and yet have remained on the political radar for the entire Pacific community.

You don't need to be able to bomb someone's home town to make them aware of you.

You don't need to be able to bomb someone's home town to make them aware of you.

No, but to be a "serious player" in the way Halo means you have to be able to do that.

India and North Korea may be "regional" at the moment with their missiles, but both have nukes, which means they *can* destroy one of our cities, even if it is just smuggled on a freighter.

Looks like Australia isn't the only country beefing up their navy in response to China:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,519341,00.html

Well, China's naval parade the other week sure had an impact :P

Russia decided to display their military-peen too:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30654932/

It is interesting to look at the Chinese produced maps vs. what you might see elsewhere. Taiwan is depicted as just another province of mainland China and the national water boundary claims all of the South China Sea all the way down to the PI as Chinese soveriegn territory. That would mean that China controls all shipping and drilling rights there, thanks to all the scattered islands China claims ownership of. All the Indochina nations would in fact have to sail Chinese waters to export anything to the West.

For Australians, from what can be gathered, China is not popular. The Chinese have of course taken plenty of jobs out of their country and also have driven up their consumer commodity prices, such as diary, through the roof. The export market to China in AU and NZ takes precedence to any domestic demand. So for the average Australian, China means less good paying jobs and high prices at the grocery store, not to mention the AU is looking to adopt the same draconian censorship of the Internet based largely on Chinese models.

Other countries in the region are looking to leverage their bets a little and it has more to do with having an ace in the hole on trade/diplomatic issues concerning the South China Sea. China could easily starve them all out on negotiating anything economic and by proxy...anything concerning policy. Even Australia and Japan are not immune.

Probably the biggest deal here though is that the US is going to be forced out of Asia soon as China expands its hegemony over the Eastern Hemisphere. It will defenately be reasonable that some deal with China, either directly with the US or indirectly with Japan will remove the Navy, Air Force and Marine presense from Japan and all nations in the region will either have to accept China as being their appointed guardian or ramp up their own militaries to compensate for the US no longer being around to keep the peace. Even as we speak, Guam is undergoing expansion to house the US military forces being displaced from Japan. Its only a matter of time.