Though I vote I have always registered Independant because I have never truely known if i fall into a party. I listen to debates and find myself agreeing and disagreeing with stances of both parties equally. I tried some simple look ups of what defines the two parties differently, and found mostly biased opinions.

Anyone know of a good site that has some clear defining points of what each of the parties beleives.

Also, what i have found I is very black and white explanations. Like guns for example. The gray areas are what is killing me. (For instance, i beleive in the rite to have guns, but think all guns should be registered, and no one needs to own a fully automatic, 100 rounds per minute gun. Own 30 shotguns/Rifles, 15 handguns, but no AR-15's, or full auto)

Neither major party has a concrete set of principles. The Democrats include a wide range of beliefs represented by an equally wide array of politicians, from a virtually Green Dennis Kucinich to a center-right Joe Lieberman (Zell Miller isn't really representative of a large segment of the party). That's a pretty wide gap.

Likewise, the Republicans have a lot of centrists such as the Governator here in California, moderate conservatives like McCain, religious nutcases, Neocons (which I still struggle to understand), lots of small L libertarians (as well as a few former big Ls, Ron Paul for example: http://www.house.gov/paul/), and so on. The GOP certainly does not have a homogeneous set of principles either.

IMO, it'd just be easier to list your principles entirely here and see where you would fit best.

Also, what i have found I is very black and white explanations. Like guns for example. The gray areas are what is killing me. (For instance, i beleive in the rite to have guns, but think all guns should be registered, and no one needs to own a fully automatic, 100 rounds per minute gun. Own 30 shotguns/Rifles, 15 handguns, but no AR-15's, or full auto)
Privately owned fully automatic weapons have been very heavily regulated since the mid 1930s. An AR-15 is, AFAIK, a semiautomatic variant of the M-16, and poses no such threat unless heavily modified. Please clear up your facts beforehand.

If you are like me, no political party suits me completely so I maintain my independent registration. Every election I decide which issues I deem to be of *most* importance to me and vote for the candidate who most closely approximates my feelings on those issues, or at least who I think will do the better over all job if both major candidates have an opposing view from my own.

I generally split my vote between parties in local elections as a result. This year the presidential election is proving to be a toughie for me because both candidates suck so bad IMO. They have a month to convince me one way or the other. I won't vote for Nader (he's even more whacked out than the mainstream parties IMO), but I would happily cast a protest vote if there were anyone running who I felt had a clue...

Here's hoping we have better choices in 2008.

AR-15 clear up: It is a semiauto, easily midified and falls under the assault rilfle category.

"IMO, it'd just be easier to list your principles entirely here and see where you would fit best."

Well will give it a try: (please hold the flames :p )

Gun- read first post

Abortion- Only in cases of rape, severe retardation, or health issue to mother. Basically people should be responsible enough there is too many ways to prevent pregnancy.

Taxes- I don't mind paying taxes if the government programs i get in return are valid and helpful. I will vote for a raise in taxes if i see the benefit. (which often I do). I loved Forbes flat tax idea a few elections back.

Healthcare- (tied to taxes) I would pay high taxes if it meant national healthcare similar to Europe and Canada. In our sue happy world healthcare is going to hell and it shouldnt.

Foreign Policy- I dont think we should be the worlds police. I dont think we should be footing the bill to stop civils wars around the world. We have way too many internal problems for us to stick our nose into every foreign cockmeasuring that happens. I supported actions for riding terrorism groups but the extent and the monitary efforts that have occured i dont agree with.

Education- needs total reform, we do not spend enough money on education, and also believe higher end education should not be a luxary but a privledge all should be able to enjoy, without the finacial burden many incur. (my roomate will be paying student loans until he is 37). I supported a bill for the "credit" for students to take to any school they choose. I think it would encourage all schools to be competative (acedemically) instead of students just going to what school they are nearest/zoned for.

Military- Understand inportance, and support strong military. More for defensive than offensive.

Welfare- needs to be more strict, having personally seen the abuse of the system, needs some serious change to the management of welfare.

Unemployment- Though i dont currently posses the ideas of how to fix it. I believe we need to change way our market works so that buisnesses dont "flee" to other countries to operate in a cheaper manner. Which i believe is a huge factor in our unemployment rate.

Oil/Gas- Think we should become MUCH less Mid-East oil dependant. We have the ability to subsidize our own oil usage and store it instead of use it.

Internet/Online Policing/Censorship- if you dont like it change the channel, website, radio station. I dont think music or movies cause kids to kill people go crazy.

Grey, you're socially moderate/economically left from what you say, though not entirely clear on the abortion topic (is it just wrong, or should it be outlawed for cases other than those you listed?). I think you'd fit in nicely with the Dems and are pretty close to Kerry's views. Give http://www.politicalcompass.org a shot for a more accurate idea.

There is a form on AOL politics that you can fill out a survey and it will see which Presidential Nominee you fit with, I guess you can start there...

Then again it IS AOL, so you never know, I'll see if I can find the link for you.

Here's the link: http://www.presidentmatch.com/Guide.jsp2

Turns out it isnt on AOL's site, but it is sponsored by them.

Scary shit that Presidential Match thingy. I got 78% Kerry, 77% Kucinich and 11% Bush. I answered as I would have if I'd been an american citizen today, with my current world views, and I took "no opinion" on *all* the questions I had too little info on to have formed an opinion.

Well, guess it turns out I'm still voting for Bush, heheh. Neat poll.

Scary shit that Presidential Match thingy. I got 78% Kerry, 77% Kucinich and 11% Bush. I answered as I would have if I'd been an american citizen today, with my current world views, and I took "no opinion" on *all* the questions I had too little info on to have formed an opinion.
In other words, if you have no opinion you should pick the guy who will pick whatever opinion meets his needs at the time.

It gave me 66% Bush.

Upon reading Kucinich's description (never heard of the man), he seems a lot closer to heart than Kerry.

Willgatus' linked site at politicalcompass.org is one of my favorites. I took it again today for grins (it had been some time):

Economic Left/Right: -6.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.74

Somehow I'm guessing that this doesn't surprise anyone :). I'm late for my night lab (it's my long day today so no lenghty response in the fascism thread either, heh ;) ) but will take the other test for the hell of it when I get home...

Regards,
Nydia

The funny thing is it told me I had a slightly higher % with kerry, but in the views that really matter to me I agree with bush, so this poll is some what stupid. It is rather imformative in some ways though. Assuming you are unsure on which candidate stands for which things as the main topics tend to be the war/homeland security.

I am at

Economic Left/Right: 6.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.77

by the Politcal Compass and 66 Bush, 36 Kerry, 32 Kucinich by the other.

The latter test provides some indication of the candidates' positions, but it does not factor in how well they adhere to any given position. Nor does it take into account what these candidates have done previously; as a result of Iraq, religious pandering, and to a lesser extent protectionist pandering earlier in his term, I like the guy a hell of a lot less than that 66 would indicate. Issues are not everything.

haha I took both the tests...

the first test that Willgatus linked, i almost scored EXACTLY as Nelson Mandela :p
Economic Left/Right: -5.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.64

and the other:
Kucinich: 53%
Kerry: 53%
Bush: 34%

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -5.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.00


Comparing my chart to the one that they use for international political figures, I'm right near Mandella and the Dalai Lama

http://forums.ayonae.ro/attachment.php?attachmentid=52&stc=1

Economic Left/Right: -2.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.79

I always figured you up with Ariel sharon, talid. I wonder why :(

Not sure I entirely agree with the criteria on that test, but it's kind of fun. Got -4/-2.87 here, which is a lot more economically "left" than I think I am, but that was probably due to my deepseated distrust of corporate influence on government biasing otherwise fairly realistic/conservative preference.

Similiarly with the president matcher, a lot of these questions are sort of leading in that while I'm against general case gun control, I would support mandatory safety training courses (I actually think safety training for firearms, cars, and other basic modern machinery should be part of high school curriculums. Nothing cleans up politics better than demystifying the subject matter :> ) except the question was "Require Safety Course, License Before Gun Purchase" and gun licensing is a very loaded subject that I'm generally against. License the operator, maybe, but not the device. In any event I ended up with 68% Kerry despite the fact I would never vote for him, and even Kucinich ranked higher than Bush, despite most people considering me more "republican material."

Not sure what you can do but possibly create multi-dimensional weighting on the questions. Just goes to show how much I think our damnable two-party circus is destroying the effectiveness of American democracy.

I ended up .62, -.26. Talk about a centrist, heh.

The problem with the Presidential Match thingy is that it does not ask anything about Terrorism, War on Terror etc...I came out 58% Bush, 54% Kerry. I imagine that if those topics were posted, the votes would skew much harder toward Bush.

Oh, and Kucinich may be closer to your heart than Kerry....but the guy seemed to me to be a nutcase in the interviews / debates before he dropped out of the race.

Economic Left/Right: 2.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 4.10


about where I figured I'd be

It seems like the compass site is a little left leaning.

Most of the people I talk to that fill it out say they ended up a lot farther left than they thought... and how did John Kerry end up further right than me?!

I think that site is based in the UK- as shown in another thread, the bulk of the US political spectrum falls left of center-


Far Left - ------ - - - US Political Spectrum - ------ Middle - - - --------- ------ - - - - - - ------ -Far Right
<-|------------------------|--------------|---------------|------------------------------------------------|->
(communism) - - - - - - (liberalism) - - - - -(realism/centrism) - - - - -(conservatism) - - - - - (fascism)

Pretty much a centrist as well though I found the answers to be a bit lacking. For example, when asking about Astrology there was no option for, "Draw and quarter every last one of those motherfuckers."

Me and Tony Blair were prety close.... only I dont have that annoying accent...