http://www.moveon.org/pac/cands/kerry.html

Oops, I'm sorry, it's just Kerry and Moveon.org again. Nothing to see here, move along. HAHA pun intended.

Gotya covered Akipt:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=1&u=/ap/20040825/ap_on_el_pr/veterans_group_bush

Lawyers on the Democratic side are also representing both the campaign or party and outside groups running ads in the presidential race.
It's a mess, and like I said perviously, you're not going to get the money out of politics. But don't throw stones if you live in a glass house...

"Unlike John Kerry, whose campaign has been proven to be coordinating with MoveOn.org and other 527s on fundraising, events, voter registration, mobilization, message, and advertising, and has a revolving door of shared personnel between the campaign, the Democratic National Committee and the 527s, President Bush does not want his campaign workers to coordinate illegally with the 527 organizations. When the Bush campaign found out that some of its volunteers had also worked with the Swift Boat Veterans organization, possibly in violation of the law, they were immediately separated from the campaign. Why hasn't John Kerry done the same?"
Kerry isn't going to win an election proving Bush has a connection to these SBVT ads. And accusing Bush of it is either desperation on Kerry's part, or bumbling inept politics. It's showing his true character either way.

Frankly I don't give a fuck if Kerry and Moveon, and Bush and the SBVT are in bed with each and fucking each others sisters. Kerry has the power to make it all go away, but he's not exercising it.

I read rumors this weekend he's going to make the talk show rounds in friendly environments, CBS, NBC, ... he has an opportunity AGAIN to change the direction of this election in his favor. Apologize, do whatever it takes. Exercise some of this so called hirer level of diplomacy that we hear so much about. If Kerry can't nuetralize 250 vets and their $150,000 ad, I damn sure don't want him leading this country.

So here we go.

Oneill in a law firm partnered with Bush's old attorney.

The main money guy who donated the inital cash to start the swiftboat for bush up and going is a VERY close Rove and Bush associate from Texas and huge donator to the RNC

The PR firm is the same one that Bush used for attacks on McCain in 2000.

This stuff about the lawyer.

The low level campaign volunteer seen in the ads.

This stuff is important because it goes to creation. Who helped create this organization. At this point, you cant really deny collusion, the best you can do is try to make Kerry look as bad as Bush.
Thats really the only tactic you have isnt it?
Bush is a coward, so try to make Kerry look like a coward.
Bush breaks the law, so try to make Kerry look like he broke the law.
Laughable. at best.

This stuff is important because it goes to creation. Who helped create this organization. At this point, you cant really deny collusion, the best you can do is try to make Kerry look as bad as Bush.L2 you crack me up.

$150 million+ for Kerry and against Bush
$150,000 against Kerry (not really even for Bush)

Keep ignoring it, maybe it'll go away, but it's not working for Kerry so why should it for you?

Sorry Akipt..just providing some insight to the thread title...wanted to help you out a bit. :p

/sigh

I really hope America becomes a dictatorship so we don't have to listen to this Kerry/bush bullshit anymore.

I for one, welcome our new dictator overlords...

Kerry can sign form 180 and if he doesn't have anything to hide, his troubles will all go away.

He simply does have something to hide.. its his record. However if I was in his position I would not release the info either, for 2 reasons.

1) If his record was still spotless the Republicans would find holes in it somehow someway.

2) The more that is known about Kerry the more he slides in the polls. America is not Liberal and most Americans think most Liberals do not follow their values.

Beelz

Beelz!!! LTNS...err wait, bout 10 mins ago...

/chuckle

Fandros

Beelz!!

anyway

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040827/ap_on_el_pr/swift_boat_witness

look.. more truth!

http://www.suntimes.com/output/novak/cst-nws-novak27.html


Oh look, more truth! Another Rear Admiral says Kerry is a fraud.

Schachte said he never has been contacted by or talked to anybody in the Bush-Cheney campaign or any Republican organization. He said he has been a political independent who votes for candidates of both parties. Hmm...I wonder if he gives (http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/search.asp?NumOfThou=0&txtName=Schachte%2C+william&txtState=%28all+states%29&txtZip=&txtEmploy=&txtCand=&txt2004=Y&txt2002=Y&txt2000=Y&Order=N) to both parties as well, or if he might have some involvement (http://www.blankrome.com/attorneys/attydetail.asp?AttNum=681) with anyone (http://www.blankromegovernmentrelations.com/bios/norcross.html) involved in the affairs of one of the major parties. Who knows?

Oh man. That was thoroughly debunked in a matter of minutes. Nice Thormir

Lol.. nice Robert Novak. The same guy that outed the CIA agent?


Schachte said it "was not possible" for Kerry to have gone out alone so soon after joining the swift boat command in late November 1968. Right..

Patrick Runyon and William Zaladonis are the two enlisted men who said they were aboard the skimmer and did not know /nod.

THIS GRANT HIBBARD?? (http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Grant_Hibbard)

And isnt Peck the guy who Kerry replaced on the boats? Im not sure but I think Tedd Peck and Edward Peck are the same dude. If someone knows something other, please tell me, couldnt verify.

But its nice that Novak is up to his usually low standards of journalism by coming up with such independant verification. Novak is a clown
http://www.mind.net/basile/robertnovak.jpg

The next time he saw Kerry after the first Purple Heart incident, Schachte said, was "about 20 years" later on the U.S. Senate subway in the basement of the Russell Senate Office Building. "I called, 'Hey, John.' He replied, 'Batman.' I was absolutely amazed by his memory." He said they "talked about having lunch" but never did it.
/pout. Looks like someones feelings were hurt.

Thormir it is unlikely he gives to both parties unless it is at the local level. To give donations to both on a national level or at the party level would just be wasting money. As far as voting for different candidates of both parties (or even other parties), that wouldn't be uncommon.

Well....yeah! =)

Novak is a counterclown. Dowd is the clown.

Hmm...I wonder if he gives (http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/search.asp?NumOfThou=0&txtName=Schachte%2C+william&txtState=%28all+states%29&txtZip=&txtEmploy=&txtCand=&txt2004=Y&txt2002=Y&txt2000=Y&Order=N) to both parties as well, or if he might have some involvement (http://www.blankrome.com/attorneys/attydetail.asp?AttNum=681) with anyone (http://www.blankromegovernmentrelations.com/bios/norcross.html) involved in the affairs of one of the major parties. Who knows?I'm sorry you people took this post seriously. I guess since Kerry is melting down, you'll eat anything with glee now. Were we not discussing Kerry's treasonous acts in another thread. Much more enjoyable that.

So anyway - Yes, he does give to both parties (not surprisingly to me.)

http://www.house.gov/spratt/ - $1000 and he is a Democrat. That took all of 15 seconds to find. I noticed your years were limited to "Cycle(s) selected: 2004, 2002, 2000". Go back further if the site allows longer, I'm sure you'll find more like that.

And his "involvement" with "anyone" in the GOP... I suppose since I worked for Wal-Mart 15 years ago, I'm involved in their political donations as well by the same (il)logic.

Norcross - "Mr. Norcross is a member of the Board of Directors of Blank Rome Government Relations LLC"

Schachte - "one of 450 lawyers working for Blank Rome, Offices of Law, LLP"

Two different divisons. Find Schachte in the LLC or working with them on a case and I'll grant you this one.

Come on, this is the same shit you guys are spoon fed in the ring oif connections to the SBVT in the New York Times. Fucking hilarious. It's politics, there has always been and will always be money there. Can't get rid of it.

Here's one for fun! Barney the dog is affiliated with the KKK!

Barney the Dog -> owned by George W. Bush -> GOP -> controls the Senate -> Senator Byrd -> KKK

Isn't that FUNNY? HAHA

I guess since Kerry is melting down,
Just curious, who are you trying to convince? Me.. or yourself?

Uh oh, more trouble (http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=14743) for Kerry. Can he go a day without some new controvercy? Worse than Clinton.

[A]n official Defense Department document summarizing Kerry's military career posted on johnkerry.com, includes a "Silver Star with combat V."
But according to a U.S. Navy spokesman, "Kerry's record is incorrect. The Navy has never issued a 'combat V' to anyone for a Silver Star."

Naval regulations do not allow for the use of a "combat V" for the Silver Star, the third-highest decoration the Navy awards. None of the other services has ever granted a Silver Star "combat V," either.
The presence of the combat “V” with Kerry’s Silver Star on his DD 214 raises two extremely disquieting questions. How did the unauthorized “V” get there, and why has Kerry allowed it to remain?


The first question should not be taken lightly because we are talking about possible federal crimes. We are talking about the possibility of a forged official document.

Here, let me save you all some time and Google the authors for you:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=%22Henry+Mark+Holzer%22+%22Erika+Holzer%27%22&btnG=Google+Search

Remember, it's not what is said that matters, it's who says it. :rolleyes:

Remember, it's not what is said that matters, it's who says it. As this was said by akipt, it clearly doesn't matter at all!

In all seriousness, though, this is very interesting. I await the Kerry response.

What a miserable pair of candidates we have propped up before us.

http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/DD214.pdf

The reason the silver star does not include a combat V is because it can ONLY be awarded in circumstances in which the assigning of the V would be repetitive. The V does NOTHING to enhance the medal. Nothing.

So I guess what Akipt is trying to insinuate is that Kerry went back when he was a Senator and deliberatly changed his records to add a V, that has ZERO meaning, to his silver star, for some unknown reason. Whatever...

Obviously a mistake by the Navy in the techinicality of the medal. The Bronze star has the V affixed to it because it can be awarded for non combat duties, the V would designate that it had been awarded in combat. The Silver Star CANNOT be awarded for anything OTHER than combat heroism.

Such a non issue. But hey! Lets talk about this instead of Bush doing NOTHING about the bankrupting of Social Security!

Just curious, who are you trying to convince? Me.. or yourself?
I like to watch you wiggle and squirm, convincing yourself that when you finally push that button next to Kerry's name, you're doing a good thing.

So I guess what Akipt is trying to insinuate is that Kerry went back when he was a Senator and deliberatly changed his records to add a V, that has ZERO meaning, to his silver star, for some unknown reason.
I don't nuance like your boy Kerry. I don't insinuate either. I -might- be a sarcastic asshole from time to time though, so let me be more clear: John Kerry is a fucking train wreck. Slow motion like. Whether it's happening now, or in a year, it's going to happen.

Keep making excuses for him though, it's very humerous to watch.

And since you project yourself as the school teacher around here, maybe you should bone up on what you're in store for:

Pathological narcissism is the art of deception. The narcissist projects a False Self and manages all his social interactions through this concocted fictional construct. People often find themselves involved with a narcissist (emotionally, in business, or otherwise) before they have a chance to discover his true nature.

When the narcissist reveals his true colors, it is usually far too late. His victims are unable to separate from him. They are frustrated by this acquired helplessness and angry that they failed to see through the narcissist earlier on.

I like to watch you wiggle and squirm,
When have a wiggled and squirmed? I have always said the truth will come out. And it has, each passing day more evidence that Swiftboats for Bush are formed by liars to spread lies.
Talk about getting things assbackwards.. the INCUMBANT is down in most polls or its dead heat and the CHALLENGER is nervous? roflcopter!
Bush bailed on the swifties, just like I knew he would, now hes distancing himself. You dont see them on Rush, or Hannity, or Fox or whatever every day now.. like magic! >poof<
They went after Kerry with their best shot, and it did some damage, but not enough. Bush is still a coward, Kerry is still a Hero.

Desperation is the RNC platform. Talk about a bait and switch!

Face it Akpit. Your boy is some deep shit. Its the 4th quarter, your team is at home and down by 3 and it looks like they are out of gas! October is gonna be a baaaaadddd month for you.
unless of course they magically make Bin Laden appear... but they wouldnt do that.. would they??? LOL.

so let me be more clear: John Kerry is a fucking train wreck
Are you saying he forged documents.. Yes or No.. simple question.

Keep making excuses for him though, it's very humerous to watch.
As humOrous as reading your posts?

Not sure about the message of that paragraph.
Im lying? Kids are sociopaths? what?

And it has, each passing day more evidence that Swiftboats for Bush are formed by liars to spread lies.Yeah! Let's ignore the two or three "corrections" Kerry has had to make so far. /cheer

Face it Akpit. Your boy is some deep shit. Its the 4th quarter, your team is at home and down by 3 and it looks like they are out of gas!
Drama queen. GOP hasn't even had their convention yet. Psst, there's two months left L2.

Are you saying he forged documents.. Yes or No.. simple question.
/shrug

I don't make wild assed allegations as you're so common of doing here. It's up to the press and Navy to investigate whether he did or not, which they should've done about a year ago to save all you liberals from embarrasing yourselves.

As humOrous as reading your posts?
I get warm fuzzy feelings knowing I make you laugh.

Not sure about the message of that paragraph.
Im lying? Kids are sociopaths? what?
If we're unlucky, you'll figure it out soon enough.

I don't nuance

Well.. so much for that... lasted all of 3 hours and 20 mins. good job.

So I guess what Akipt is trying to insinuate is that Kerry went back when he was a Senator and deliberatly changed his records to add a V, that has ZERO meaning, to his silver star, for some unknown reason. Whatever...

Actually what this suggests is that Kerry was playing with his medals in the first place(when he initially put in/received them) and didn't know what he was doing or how the silver star was awarded.
He couldn't "go back and change" his records.

No shit, yet his DD-214 clearly states that he recieved a Silver Star with V for combat valor.

http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/DD214.pdf

I didnt know the Navy awarded people medals based on their personal preference. He was GIVEN the Silver Star with V, he didnt go up to the Medals Buffet and pick what he wanted. If ya wanna be pissed at Kerry for not researching more heavily into the techinical minutia of medals, ribbons and awards, then >shrug< whatever floats your boat.

Blame T. Vanstrydonck

Yet another (http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-lips28.html) dirty rotten stinkin right wing extremist liar:

Former Navy Secretary John Lehman has no idea where a Silver Star citation displayed on Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry's campaign Web site came from, he said Friday. The citation appears over Lehman's signature.

"It is a total mystery to me. I never saw it. I never signed it. I never approved it. And the additional language it contains was not written by me," he said.

Once again.. consider the source

John Lehman (http://rightweb.irc-online.org/ind/lehman/lehman.php)

and the author. Thomas Lipscomb

Subject: RE: CIA's secret Phoenix Project documents on The Memory Hole
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 03:04:50 -0400
Declan.....
Kindly don't get too excited at this kind of over the hill Marxist
museum crap.
There was a Phoenix program...and compared to what Castro has going on
every day it is 3.2 beer. And compared to the VC village destabilization
program it was like Disneyland in comparative toxicity.
And it was a war, now, wasn't it? And the VC were killing civilians like
there was no tomorrow in that war.
So destabilizing the VC led to their final destruction in Tet in 68.
It has NOTHING to do with the Homeland Security laws today. Just a nice
old Red-diaper delusion.... that this silly ass clearly has fallen for.
Phoenix had its excesses...so did the Clinton Administration with Waco
and Ruby Ridge....
But the idea there is some consistent plot is lunatic.
You shouldn't be putting this hysterical nonsense out without context
Xin loi
Tom
Thomas H. Lipscom http://www.thatliberalmedia.com/archives/001729.html

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/kerry_kan_plot1.htm

http://oregonmag.com/BushNatGuardTL.htm

http://nyyrc.blogspot.com/2004_03_01_nyyrc_archive.html

Same guy who was peddling that bogus story trying to connect Kerry to an assasination plot...

He was GIVEN the Silver Star with V, he didnt go up to the Medals Buffet and pick what he wanted.
Maybe you missed it..this V business is possible evidence that he tried to do just that and screwed it up because he didn't know what he was doing.

Did what? Broke into the Pentagon and changed his DD-214? To do what? Add a V?

Thin.. really, really, really thin

Same guy who was peddling that bogus story trying to connect Kerry to an assasination plot...So the same guy who accused Kerry of "an assasination plot" was the same guy who signed off for his Silver Star with V?

LMAO

Gotcha.

Ok, I see it went over your head again.

It isn't the possibility of him breaking in and changing it, it's the possibility that he fabricated or exaggerated the medal in the first place and fucked up.

akpit.
you need to look at my post again. There are 2 distinct parts.
Part one. About the John Lehman. The ex admiral
Part two. About the author. Thomas Lipscomb.

about 6 months ago, Lipscomb was talking that story up.
Lipscomb and Lehman are two different people. I know its complicated Akpit, but try to follow along.

it's the possibility that he fabricated or exaggerated the medal in the first place and fucked up.
Fabricated receiving a medal? Or the events leading up to the medal.
So, again, him receiving a Silver Star is on his DD-214.
Wether he exaggerated the circumstances, or even lied about them, neither of which I believe to be true... The navy would have awarded him a Medal. Nothing on his part would have included him defining what medals he recieved.
Theres gotta be more than that....

The navy would have awarded him a Medal. Nothing on his part would have included him defining what medals he recieved.
Yet he received other medals out of the chain of command through means uncertain to his commanders at the time...so we cannot assume that he would not be able to define what medals he received.

If you're still with me, the V business is possible proof that he did define the medal, meaning he did it illegally.

you need to look at my post again. There are 2 distinct parts.
Part one. About the John Lehman. The ex admiral
Part two. About the author. Thomas Lipscomb.

about 6 months ago, Lipscomb was talking that story up.
Lipscomb and Lehman are two different people. I know its complicated Akpit, but try to follow along.
... WTF do I care? Barney -> Bush -> GOP -> Senate -> Byrd -> KKK
Same difference to me, and it's getting really fucking old seeing this be yours and Kerry's excuse for everything going wrong in his campaign.

It's going to be Bush's fault that his daughter gets hooked on crack. If Teresa gets knocked up, it's Bush's fault. If he loses in November, it's Bush's fault. You're shoveling the same response that the Kerry campaign gives on every problem.

Kerry fucking royally pissed off just about every Vietnam veteran with his lies after the war. Does he own up to that when they start making ads against him? No, it's Bush's fault of course. He's never going to own up to anything being his fault, and neither will you. "Vast right wing conspiracy" bullshit over and over again. Give it a rest already.

And it's Akipt, not akpit. You can call me A1 :D

If you're still with me, the V business is possible proof that he did define the medal, meaning he did it illegally. Im not following you, can you explain to me how this would work?

You can call me A1 How about armpit?

And since we are obviously just creating posts with intention of trying to annoy the other person, Here ya go Armpit.


http://www.angelfire.com/space/pearly/bush/bushladen_crimes.jpg


In October 1942, ten months after entering World War II, America was preparing its first assault against Nazi military forces. Prescott Bush was managing partner of Brown Brothers Harriman. His 18-year-old son George, the future U.S. President, had just begun training to become a naval pilot. On Oct. 20, 1942, the U.S. government ordered the seizure of Nazi German banking operations in New York City which were being conducted by Prescott Bush.

Under the Trading with the Enemy Act, the government took over the Union Banking Corporation, in which Bush was a director. The U.S. Alien Property Custodian seized Union Banking Corp.'s stock shares, all of which were owned by Prescott Bush, E. Roland `` Bunny '' Harriman, three Nazi executives, and two other associates of Bush.

On the evening of 6 November 1963, two days after her 17th birthday, Laura Welch failed to stop her Chevy sedan at a stop sign and smashed into a Corvair being driven by a school chum, Michael Douglas, also 17. Laura and her passenger, Judy Dykes, were treated for minor injuries at a nearby hospital, where they learned that Douglas had died from his injuries. No police charges were filed, apparently, but paperwork from the accident is missing or unclear and the details of the incident are a bit of a mystery. Now Laura Welch is married to U. S. president George W. Bush (http://www.who2.com/georgewbush.html) and is known around the world as LAURA BUSH (http://www.who2.com/laurabush.html). The story made national news during the presidential election of 2000, but little new information came to light. At the time her spokesman, Andrew Malcolm, said "To this day Mrs. Bush remains unable to talk about it." Noell Bush (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/nbush1.html)

And of course.. Let us not forget Dick "the Swerve" Cheney. One has to wonder if he picked up an endorsement from MADD with 2 DWIs and counting.. Of course, these occured at the time that Cheney was getting deferments from going to Vietnam, because he had "better things to do". >glug< >glug<

Im not following you, can you explain to me how this would work?

Maybe you could tell me?

Or better yet maybe you could get Kerry to tell you?


Nevertheless, John Kerry managed to obtain his coveted Purple Heart for this incident nearly three months later after being transferred to Coastal Division 11. The circumstances remain obscure, as there are no written records of this award on file at the Naval Historical Center.


I do not recall being advised of any medical treatment, and probably said something like 'Forget it.' He later received a Purple Heart for that scratch, and I have no information as to how or whom.

There's the proof that he had the ability to get himself medals outside of the chain of command through unknown means.

What more do you need for you to believe it is possible that he could have had a hand in this one?

There's the proof that he had the ability to get himself medals outside of the chain of command through unknown means. Cmon dude.. seriously. You might as well make an accusation like John Kerry causes Global Warming. I dont HOW.. you tell me.
As far as your quotes.. sources please. Im not sure they would qualify as "proof" in any stretch of the word. People with vague memories, who have no record of treating Kerry with political motivation 30 years later making claims which more and more every day come with conflicting reports.. Thurlow. Part Deux?

What more do you need for you to believe it is possible that he could have had a hand in this one? Besides motive, opportunity and possiblity?
How would it be possible? I really dont know..
Did Kerry hypnotize the entire chain of command? Did he sneak into the pentagon like Tom Cruise in Mission Impossible? Was a rift caused in the space time continuum that Kerry exploited to obtain a medal in an alternate universe that had a V on it????? HOW MAN HOW?

"Your honor, ladies and gentlemen of the Jury: I have no idea how Mr. Jones could have murdered Mr. Smith, since he was on the other side of the country.. but since Mr. Smith is dead, Mr. Jones must be a murderer. The state rests, now if youll excuse me, I need to go vote Republican"

Kerry's campaign has already admitted his first purple heart was from a self inflicted "wound". It's not a stretch to imagine another medal incorrectly awarded. Anyone who has spoken at length with a Vietnam vet (one of my relatives served close to 2 years there) knows that medals were handed out like monopoly money -- particularly purple hearts.

Kerry's campaign has already admitted his first purple heart was from a self inflicted "wound".

I hadnt seen that... can you supply the link please.

knows that medals were handed out like monopoly money -- particularly purple hearts.

Maybe because a lot of the time, our men over there were under heavy and direct fire?

I know my father has a purple heart for being shot in the leg (just above the knee). He's dead now, but I remember when I was younger, he used to go to a bar that was owned by a guy with 1 arm (Uncle Vic!) - the other was lost in Vietnam, they served together.

People died over there. People were hurt over there. How can you say that it's unlikely that he was injured when he was over there, like all the other people that were present and injured?

Various commendations were awarded much more freely during Vietnam. It was a way of boosting morale. That's not to say that a lot of them weren't rightfully earned, but they certainly were easier to get at the time.

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/player.html?11608&Special_Report&Record%20News&elec&You%20Decide%202004&8&wvx-300

You can also check several blog reports out there about the Kerry campaign statement. The best evidence though is Kerry's own journal wherein he wrote that he had not been shot at by the enemy until after he was awarded his first purple heart.

As far as your quotes.. sources please. Im not sure they would qualify as "proof" in any stretch of the word.
You're right, his commanding officer when the incident happened saying he never put the medal through and he would like to know how Kerry got it does not qualify as proof "in any stretch of the word". Neither would the fact that there are no written records of the award to explain how he got it at the Naval Historical Center.

...and the moon is made of green cheese and santa really did conquer the martians.

crist0, without even getting into his politics and extremely close association with the Bush administration (read the link from other page)
Lehman used up his credibility a long time ago.
At a time when the staff reports from the 9/11 commission and most of the media were dismissing the Bush administration's continuing assertions about the links between al Qaeda and the Saddam Hussein government, Lehman told NBC's "Meet the Press" on June 20 that the commission had documents captured in Iraq that "indicate that there is at least one officer of Saddam's Fedayeen, a lieutenant colonel, who was a very prominent member of al-Qaeda." Lehman succeeded in giving new life to the administration's claims, although the CIA quickly dismissed the assertion saying that the documents did not support Lehman's allegation. In fact, the CIA had investigated this alleged link "a long time ago" and concluded that one officer in Hussein's militia merely had a name that was similar to an al-Qaeda operative. However, Lehman claimed on national television that it was new information, as yet unexamined by the commission or other government entities. (17) (18) (22)

Besides motive, opportunity and possiblity?
How would it be possible? I really dont know..
Trust me it isnt that hard to fake awards/Citations in the military. Prolly was alot easier back then too. Hell I know a few people who have done it. And you can even easily trick you CoC into writing it for you.

Who's talking about Lehman?

His commanding officer was Grant Hibbard.

Korlis, we are talking about a silver star. The 3rd highest medal in the Navy. They dont give alot of those out.

Akpit was talking about Lehman. An ex-admiral that said he never saw or heard about Kerry getting a medal. It's in the article he linked.

From the outside looking in, this whole issue around Kerry's three purple hearts is kind of.....I dunno, misleading.

I mean, lets say that he faked the first medal (How I don't know, maybe it was easier back then), and he very well could have. There are two more after that. I find it hard to be able to fake three purple hearts. Being a service man myself, I know that if someone was to recieve such a prestigous award three times, it would draw notice, enough notice to warrant a look in and see how they got them.

Now, I'm playing devil's advocate here, BUT at least Kerry went overseas. Again, having served overseas myself (as some of you have) I find it easier to relate to a person that has served his country in a war time situation versus a man who's military service is seriously in question.

I mean, they had a hard enough time finding someone who had served with GWB. Anyone, and I mean ANYONE that's served in any military knows that not finding anyone is bullshit. I have friends in the service I haven't seen in 10 years, yet I could call them up tomorrow and we'd head out for a beer like old times. It's just something that happens, it's a brotherhood only those that serve together know about and experience. I don't see this with Bush.

And don't bring this "But he went overseas" bit up. There's a HUGE difference between what the troops go through when going, staying and coming home from overseas and what the President goes through. The President doesn't do sentry, the President doesn't have extra duties, the President doesn't get up at O'Dark thirty in the morning to start his day. All the President does is show up, try to improve morale (cause that's why he's there, lets be honest) and get back on his cushy plane back to where ever. While your servicemen are overseas for over a year, this guy shows up for a couple of days, makes appearances and leaves. Lets not make a political visit anything more than what it is, just a visit. The reason I say this is because in another thread someone had mentioned the President going to Iraq and had likened it to going overseas. Let me tell you, when I go overseas in a first class plane, with servants waiting on me hand and foot, with all the food and booze (of the best quality I might add) I can eat and drink, and can leave whenever I want, then I'll say Bush has it hard. Otherwise? Meh, suck it up princess.

I wish Bush Sr. had forced him to serve like he did in WWII. In fact, I have a HUGE amount of respect for Bush Sr (for those of you suspecting me of bashing all Republicans). There's a man that served his country, over and over again. Or better yet, Colin Powell for President. The man was THERE for crying out loud. He was in Desert Storm v. 1.0. THERE'S a man that should be at the helm. Someone that's actually lead men in combat, who has dealt with war time situation's with a hands on approach. Or John McCain! The man's a bloody war hero! Dammit, you guys have such awesome leaders in your government that are not being used to their full potential.

But GWB? /sigh

I'm not saying Kerry is a stellar candidate by any means. I'm a conservative at heart (Canadian Conservative = American Republican pretty much), and if there was anyone else, ANYone else, I'd venture to guess they'd do a better job than either GWB or Kerry.

But due to Bi Partisan politics (get some more political parties dammit! ;) ) you have to take one of the two. And believe it or not I'd lean towards a treehugger that's been shot at while wearing a uniform during two tours in a war zone then a fellow that was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and didn't have to serve a single day in a war zone. Say what you want, that's what it is.

My personal take on war is that if you want to declare it, you bloody well better lead it. If you're not prepared to put on a flak jacket, grab a rifle and some ammo, hump your share of kit and lead your men from the front, then get the fuck out of office, I don't want you there.

Trust me it isnt that hard to fake awards/Citations in the military. Prolly was alot easier back then too. Hell I know a few people who have done it. And you can even easily trick you CoC into writing it for you.

I knew a guy who was over weight (by about 25lbs) and he needed to take a picture for BNOC or something like that in order to get a promotion. Well he took his professional picture lying on his back and had the photographer lie down and turn the camera sideways. All in an effort to make his gut look a little better. It worked too LOL

Where there is a will, there is a way.

crist0, without even getting into his politics and extremely close association with the Bush administration (read the link from other page)
Lehman used up his credibility a long time ago.

You were addressing me, not Akipt.


in another thread someone had mentioned the President going to Iraq and had likened it to going overseas

I believe you are referring to when someone called Bush a coward, and I responded that a coward would never do something like that(that's the only time I can remember it being brought up here)....indeed, it was something that had not been done since Ike. It was hardly likened to serving overseas...where you got that I have no idea.

http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/images/war.281.gif

Now now, I have questioned Bush's service, however some of you have linked me information that would support his at least serving some of his time. Enough in fact to pretty much eliminate questioning his ever going AWOL. This doesn't change the fact that Kerry has combat experience, but at least Bush served in some form or capacity (unlike Clinton, unless you count the Peace Corps.........Yeah, ok :rolleyes: ).

Like I've said though, without his military service record Kerry is nothing more than a great head of hair :p