So over the past...years...we've come to destroy pretty much ever anti-America theory presented on these boards thanks to your guys dilligence and research ability.

Thanks.

Now I have a problem. Someone I care about pretty deeply is very much anti-America. My normal recourse when coming up against someone like this is to simply tell them to piss off since I, like many others, are simply sick and tired of the same arguments over and over again.

To be more accurate, she has mentioned that America is becomming more and more like Nazi Germany, the Bush family has ties with the Bin Laden family, we murdered countless innocent people when we bombed Japan, etc...

How would you guys suggest telling her she's wrong without hurting her feelings? Her parents are -incredibly- stubborn and it's carried over into her. I'm not experienced enough with women to have figured out how to just simply nod my head and say, 'Okay dear." 8/

http://www.angelfire.com/pr/hypno/hr.JPG

if you tell her she's wrong, it's not going to make anything better.
You can't just say "you are wrong" and have somebody believe you, good luck on this.

L2-HAHAHAHA. thats great.

IMHO Just explain your respect for her views but that you do not share them. If she can't get over that then she was not meant to be friends with anyways.

Ok first things first.
If she's already made up her mind you probably can't change it.
Just smile and nod. Smile and nod.
If you can't...
Uhm... it depends on whether or not she can handle losing an argument, and if she's enough of a gracious winner for you to want to bother taking a stand. Some (read: most) get offended when their opinions are proven wrong, and/or their argumentations obliterated.

Take it from me. Most people dislike me until they get to know me because I stick to my guns and argue my principles. It took me years, and ayonae.ro, to realize it - and I've still yet to find a way to combat it besides telling the offendees to foad. Not that there's anything wrong with foad, but I guess in your case it's not very appropriate.

You could also put up a weak defense and let her obliterate it. It works, for a while. But never in the long run because it's basing everything on misconceptions.

A way I've found effective is to never take up a fight in private with the person in question. If she corners you, just do what you can to weasel out of the discussion, but when she has a conversation with someone else on the topic of strife - carefully enter the discussion by supplementing facts. Don't argue for or against her, stay neutral, but be confident and show that you actually know what you're talking about. It's usually a respect building move and something that in the long run can bring her out of the stubborn attitude when it comes to talking to you.

Seriously.
The only way to change her opinion is to let her see things from another perspective for herself.
Find what you love and respect about what America stands for, and show her that.

Hey Zehn :)

Interesting that you only asked the men about this ;) .

Sometimes, whether it's an intimate relationship or just a good friendship, you have to 'agree to disagree' in order to remain friends. This isn't giving up your own opinions or convictions, rather, it's having respect for the fact that the other person has closely held convictions also and has a right to not be continually be hounded about them. Eventually you'll get to the point that you can discuss the issues every now and then in a lighthearted fashion, and make your points where you can. If you can't respect each other enough to do this, you might want to rethink the relationship :) .

Faervas and I differ violently on quite a few issues (some nights it's a veritable session of 'Crossfire' here at the house), and sometimes I'll eventually get sick of listening to the latest gospel he's regurgitating from the Rush Limbaugh show or the Drudge Report and tell him he's full of crap (and why if I'm feeling particularly energetic) and then we go get dinner ;) .

The issue we seem to be going around and around about right now is the issue of race vs political affiliation, and how both major parties exploit this, particularly with regard to what's going on with judicial appointments...

In your case, the person you refer to has some opinions that differ diametrically from yours in some pretty 'hot button' areas atm. If you insist on trying to address these issues with her, I'd try to find out what some of her feelings are about some more basic issues that have a bearing on those. Is she in fact a hard core pacifist? How far does she think that the US should go to avoid war? What does she think the US should have done in WW2, other than bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki? On the civil liberties issue, where *should* one draw the line on freedom of expression, assembly, privacy, etc? Is it ever permissible to compromise individual liberties for the sake of security?

What you want to find out here is, do her opinions have any foundation in logic? If her positions seem well thought out (by her), even if you don't agree with them, then you should respect them. On the other hand, if she can't support her positions (and I mean during a discussion, not an assault with a battering ram, my own dad used to get so upset at me during political discussions that kept escalating that eventually he'd be jabbing me in the chest ;) ), then perhaps there is room for movement, assuming that you keep the conversation nonthreatening and nonpersonal...

Best of luck, and let us know how it turns out,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

So over the past...years...we've come to destroy pretty much ever anti-America theory presented on these boards thanks to your guys dilligence and research ability.

Ok before i start no flames pls.

You may think they have won every argument on such topics,but it`s all a matter of opinion.Don`t get me wrong i`ve seen many eloquent and coherant pro-US arguments,but they have far from convinced me or anyone who doesn`t already belive them.Sounding clever and winning a debate are two completely different things,however linked they are.

What he's talking about is that he and the other pro-americans have tag-teamed the "euros" to the left and right, both helping each other and using their compatriots' arguments to further their own argumentative prowess.

Something which no one can deny who's spent any time on these boards in the last year.

/Shrug

what you`re referring to i seem to remember as alot of pointless bitching...though it was pretty funny at times :D

Not something i would consider a 'debate'

Maybe i missed alot of the earlier ones,...

No, you're just ignorant.
See pub142.ezboard.com/fayona...21&stop=21 (http://pub142.ezboard.com/fayonaerofrm15.showMessageRange?topicID=857.topic&start=21&stop=21) for reference.

So over the past...years...we've come to destroy pretty much ever anti-America theory presented on these boards thanks to your guys dilligence and research ability.

MUAHAHAHHAHAHAHa
(/takes a breath)
MUAHAHHAHAHAHA
MUAHAHAHAHA

To be more accurate, she has mentioned that America is becomming more and more like Nazi Germany, the Bush family has ties with the Bin Laden family, we murdered countless innocent people when we bombed Japan

Well she is correct.
But that is offcourse not what you wanne hear or wanne know about.
I sugest you use the method used by most Americans on this board to stop all discussion.
When she opens her mouth you start yelling real loud at her and scream so loud that it hurts her ears.
Just scream insult and sabotage every discussion.
Continue this untill she does not open her mouth again.
That's the "American" way.

You're missing the point Nydia. I don't -want- to talk about these things with her, for mainly the same reason I don't want to talk about them on these boards anymore. I'm just simply sick and tired of it. How many times must we disect the bombings of WW2 before I can finally no longer have to waste time reading about it when Ytrok makes a new handl..er...one of his friends brings it up during normal conversation?

In retrospect, I should have named this thread, "How do I avoid arguing politics with a woman I want to sleep with when she just won't let it go?"

I have a difference of opinion,so i am immediatly 'wrong' that`s the american way.

No-one,and i mean no-one pulls off pure arrogance quite as well as you americans.

He's not American, numnuts.

When she opens her mouth you start yelling real loud at her and scream so loud that it hurts her ears.

Wtf... My Messages never yell at me.. Did I miss an upgrade?

To be more accurate, she has mentioned that America is becomming more and more like Nazi Germany
This shows complete and total ignorance in what Nazi Germany was. It is an insult not only to America, but to the people who survived that Horror.

the Bush family has ties with the Bin Laden family
So? What possible relevance does this have? Jeffery Dahlmers parents own a Hardware store. Does every Carpenter in Michigan now have a connection to Canniblism?
I have never understood what Bin Ladens family had to do with anything.

we murdered countless innocent people when we bombed Japan
On this.. you have been owned. I have shown time and time again the Bombing the Cities was the right choice of two unavoidable evils. Dont make me rehash all this shit again.
Besides.. The Japanese killed more people during the Rape of Nanking than we did in the bombing of those 2 cities.

1- Thanks for askin'. I hope I don't give an answer that leads to divorce, murder, suicide, murder-suicide, diarrhea, scabies, crabs, headache, blue-balls, or purchasing of Richard Simmons designer clothing.
2- I've been drinking, so nobody better hold ANY of this shit against me.

If it's someone that you care about, then they obviously have good points to them. People can disagree and get along fine. My wife is a Christian, and I am an agnost (God-fearing atheist), which one would think would lead to an incompatibility issue. I've got 11 years and two kids that speak differently. It doesn't create an incompatibility, because we both agree to disagree and further understand / believe that my disagreeing with her does not equate to me calling her stupid.

This also doesn't mean just ignore what she has to say when it goes contrary to what you believe. Honestly listen, even if you think she's wrong. I've had some REALLY good conversations with people that I care about and disagree with. Sometimes I change their mind, and other times they've changed my mind. Remote possibility in most issues (especially political ones), but still not impossible.

Now, this has to be reciprocal though. YOU can't do all the listening, and attempting to understand her point of view. She has to put the honest effort in to understand your point of view. She doesn't have to agree with it, just know that it's your view, and can be different than hers.

The other thing that might help in this situation is to BOTH take a look at each issue and discuss your point of views without getting heated. It sounds like it will take some effort on both of your parts to stop from getting too irritated, but if she's worth it to you, and you're worth it to her, then you can both put forth the effort.

I wish you the best of luck, Chief. Keep your cool, make the honest effort to understand, and if worse comes to worse, just agree to disagree.

Now, before I make myself look like a bigger pussy than I already have, I will part with this final thought: If I can do it, anyone can... >:)

Dear Zehn:

Sorry, I read this:

How would you guys suggest telling her she's wrong without hurting her feelings?

as an indication that you *did* wish to continue dialogue on those topics with her. In that case, the first point of my advice goes double then. Agree to disagree, and then STFU about it :) . If you don't want an argument about those topics, don't 'try to tell her she's wrong', just don't bring them up. If *she* insists on bringing them up, just tell her that you don't agree, that you're not *going* to agree, and that you think that you guys should leave it at that. Try your best not to get worked up or put any more spin on the issue. If you, or she, can't accept that you have political differences, then you will have to decide whether the sex is worth the lack of respect, and at your age, it might be... ;)

Good luck,
Nydia

To further explain Nydia, she won't let it drop. I either have to purposefully lose and admit she's right in everything or...well...that's about it. I didn't stop to think like I normally do when I posted this. If I had I would have worded it drastically different.

Anyways, I got pretty much what I needed. If nothing else, I'm a master of weaseling out of things. Managed to change the topic to her cats and am happily listening to her drone on about them.

Oh, and this is what sparked it all. She saw some film last night by a journalist.

Pigler Carlton (http://pilger.carlton.com/)

To further explain Nydia, she won't let it drop. I either have to purposefully lose and admit she's right in everything or...well...that's about it.

I missed that being the point of your original and spun off into "Happy Tangent Land". Whoops.

Tough situation you got there. If she won't let things drop and keeps bringing them up, care for her from a distance. It's one thing to disagree, it's another to keep salting wounds.

The way I'd handle it (and believe me, you'd be better off finding alternate solutions to what I'm about to recommend) is to:

1 - Tarzan solution. "Less talk, more fuck."
2 - Ultimatum time. "If I indicate that we will not agree on something, and want to let it drop, say your piece and let it drop. If you fail to do so, it is evidence that we should not be around each other as much." If she doesn't show that she respects you by trying to work it out, go fuck one of her friends to punctuate the end of the relationship.

(Like I said, right now my advice is best left unheeded.)

I sugguest you just start to interrupt her every chance you get with blind accusations.

Disrupt everything you can and de-rail it into an anti-whatever her views are debate.

When she opens her mouth just tell her that your views are right because you saw it in a magazine published by commie nazi monkeys wearing tinfoil hats.

When things don't go your way, point out that she's slightly breaking the rules and playing out of bounds.

Repeat that step as long as you need to portray yourself as a soft skinned whiner.

When she bans you out of her life. Have your bitchass friends talk to her instead.

THATS the Ytrok/Balgoayghe/crybaby way.

I hate when the media so fools people like this..

Zehn.. do you really want to date a girl so easily mislead? So Gullible, So...

Wait.. Fuck.. Nm... of course you do.

Thanks for including me in this august group...

First and foremost bud I'd listen more to "How" she's arguing these points. The emotion and the tactics she employs to argue her point are often more valid then the actual data included therein.

Figure out if she's getting an emotional charge from the arguement ( many folks do btw) or if she's really seeking an intellectual wrangling.

From the info you've provided it would appear she's repeating parrot like emotional cues from her family/friends. It's likely , if you can provide hard data, that she'll learn to at least appreciate your candor and the trust it implies. She'll enjoy knowing that you value her passion , if nothing else, in regards to her opinions.

Lastly, there is no win/lose in an argument between two sentient adults that are involved in a growing intimate relationship. As long as your talking your living bruddah.

Christopher...

Oh, and for the folks that honestly compare America to Hitlers regime....Good lord you folks really need to read Mein Kamph....english version will suffice

As for the Nuking of Japan, good gods it was a horrible thing...

And it saved Millions of untold lives....

The Bin Laden/Bush connection. Bin Laden, the Father/Patriarch, was very very pro american......Gosh I guess we'll just assume the sins of the father apply in reverse eh??

Sounds to me like you ordered yourself a pissed off Russian bride...

Here's a tip sunshine, go to Costco, buy the 100 pack of toilet paper and wrap it up and put a bow on it, and all of your problems will go away. She'll be the happiest girl in the world when she sees it's 2-ply.

This is the shit i know L2 lives for. rofl!

rolf!!!!1111oneonetuna

No.. I live for my Son and my Wife.. owning you is just a fun hobby.

If you just want some,agree with her./shrug. If the next time she starts blazing on the U.S just say "You are so sexy when you are are sooo right"."Now,pull your pants down".(or something a little more eloquent)

If you want a long term relationship,you are barking up the wrong tree.Move on ,i say.

Zhen just picture her as one big vagina. This way when she talks you can see that 1. there has to be sand in it, and that 2 you wanna get some! Kill 2 birds with one stone.

Although a talking vagina is pretty funny so thats an added bonus!

Just grab your crotch every time she starts up and tell her.

"Shut the fuck up or ill shut that cock holster for you."

You're missing the point Nydia. I don't -want- to talk about these things with her, for mainly the same reason I don't want to talk about them on these boards anymore.

You could do what we do i my house. We have guidelines, there are 3 things my family doesn't talk about;

1.) Religion-sp-
2.) Sexual Preference
3.) Politics

This maintains the peace in my house because both my dad and I always want to get the last word in. So maybe you should try something like that see how it works out.

If she won't let you drop it them just walk away. Go to another room in the house. If she follows shut the door and lock it, then turn the tv on and way up so you can't hear her yelling. :D

-----------------------

Zehn,

Please stop dating hippie chics. It is not worth it.

your discussions are pointless and a fail if you try to "explain" someone why america is the best or whatever , if he/she does not BELIEVE it. The US got a big image problem in the World. that reality if you like it or not and no matter what really happen in america.
And ths US government not really trying to get good publicity.
that why is it to hard to convince people that america isnt like nazi germany and such bullshit.

Its pretty much the same like convincing a very religious jew that islam is the only true religion. such conflicts can last thousands of years. jews,christs and moslems gave a good example how long such conflicts can last that cannot be solved with arguments and logical explainations ... its just about faith .... and america seems to work very hard to polarize many people in the world against them.

dont get me wrong i dont think america is a bad country , but i think the USA have a very big image problem in the world and it didnt develop overnight , its the result of a long list of events that didnt pleased the audience ...

I doubt that this development will change anytime soon with the current administration leading the united states of america.

Joe: "I'm looking for someone that knows a lot about 18-wheeler suspension systems..."

Hartum: "That reminds me, did I tell you how much I think America sucks?"

Yes. We've heard.

Seek help.

(Like I said, right now my advice is best left unheeded.)
-Faust
/quote]

Maybe so, but it sure is the f

Thanks all. We managed to reach an amiable end to the situation.

Now if only she could convince me that Christianity is a false religion and it own't hurt to drop my pants, the world would be a better place.

Thanks all. We managed to reach an amiable end to the situation

AKA Zehn lost but still gets to hit it. *whip noise*

Actually I convinced her that her sources may be full of shit, then I went and played Counter-Strike. 8/

'So over the past...years...we've come to destroy pretty much ever anti-America theory presented on these boards thanks to your guys dilligence and research ability.'

- I think I just slipped a disc.
You sad twat.

All of the twats I have seen have been happy ones.

Well, if not destroy then perhaps shed the light upon your delusional theories...

/grin

Christopher...

Well falling back on to the "WE ARE GOOD!!!onee!122 THEY ARE EVIL!!!two11122!!1" idea isn't perhaps what I'd call tearing apart the Euro argument :P

/chuckle

Dammit!!! I thought for sure that line would work this time Halo!! ;)

Christopher...

Don't get me wrong. It was hard to counter-attack when that one was brought in to the fray.
But I'm confident we handled it well, with our secret weapon, Hartmut.

Let's face it, JFK WAS infact abducted before he was shot, and it was infact aliens in a JFK suit that was assisinated, while JFK enjoys a pint of beer with Hitler on the moon.

I mean, duh.

[Note: Shameless, point-drifting effort to insult Hartmut. Any chance, eh.]

your secret weapon has foiled us many times, we shall find out where you keep it and dispose of it emediately!

I havent read the 3 pages of replies to this Zehn, but from what I gather, you've got this chick you dig, but she has a really anoying habbit of bringing up far-leftwing shit all the time and you'd just rather she didnt.

I very recently (last couple weeks) stopped seeing a girl who did the same thing. She also had short hair (with bangs, ew), and an annoying laugh. These three flaws led me to breaking it off with her after a short (6 week) dating thing.

Seriously, thats the kind of thing you think you can get over, but honestly you wont, it will just make you dislike her.

Sorry if i gathered incorrectly.

'we shall find out where you keep it and dispose of it emediately! '

- If only I knew, I'd bloody help.

People's opinions can change Zehn, infact I bet spending tons of time arguing with the euros has all the best arguments in your brain or at least on these boards.

Maybe bring up some of those when she talks about stuff.. If you care about her enough, maybe look for some of the better ones on the boards and just spew them out.

Oh, and if she's the person who is so incredibly stubborn that her opinion on anything won't change, just break it off. :b

Wow, Ernham makes like a 6 week relationship is a short thing!

I say just ignore her, but then again I get tired of a girl after 3 weeks and am ready to move on to new things. Something about the thrill of the hunt always being better than being in a successful relationship.