Dear Civilians,

We know that the current state of affairs in our great nation have many civilians up in arms and excited to join the military. For those of you who can't join, you can still lend a hand. Here are a few of the areas we would like your assistance:

1) The next time you see an adult talking (or wearing a hat) during the playing of the National Anthem ... kick their ass.

2) When you witness firsthand someone burning the American Flag in protest ... kick their ass.

3) Regardless of the rank they held while they served, pay the highest amount of respect to all veterans. If you see anyone doing otherwise, quietly pull them aside and explain how these Veterans fought for the very freedom they bask in every second. Enlighten them on the many sacrifices these Veterans made to make this Nation great. Then hold them down while a Disabled Veteran kicks their ass.

4) (GUYS) If you were never in the military, DO NOT pretend that you were. Wearing battle dress uniforms (BDU's), telling others that you used to be "Special Forces," and collecting GI Joe memorabilia, might have been okay if you were still seven. Now, it will only make you look stupid and get your ass kicked.

5) Next time you come across an Air Force member, do not ask them, "Do you fly a jet?" Not everyone in the Air Force is a pilot. Such ignorance deserves an ass kicking (children are exempt).

6) If you witness someone calling the U.S. Coast Guard non military, inform them of their mistake...and kick their ass.

7) Roseanne Barr's singing of the National Anthem is not a blooper...it was a disgrace and disrespectful. Laugh, and sooner or later your ass will be kicked.

Next time Old Glory (U.S. flag) prances by during a parade, get on your damn feet and pay homage to her by placing your hand over your heart.
Quietly thank the military member or veteran lucky enough to be carrying her...of course, failure to do either of those could earn you a severe ass kicking.

9) What Jane Fonda did during the Vietnam War makes her the enemy. The proper word to describe her is "traitor." Just mention her nomination for "Woman of the Year" and get your ass kicked.

10) Don't try to discuss politics with a military member or a veteran. We are Americans and we all bleed the same regardless of our party affiliation. Our Chain of Command, is to include our commander in Chief. The President (for those who didn't know) is our CIC regardless of political party. We have no inside track on what happens inside those big important buildings where all those representatives" meet. All we know is that when those civilian representatives screw up the situation, they call upon the military to go straighten it out. The military member might direct you to Oliver North. (I can see him kicking your ass already.)

11) "Your mama wears combat boots" never made sense to me ... stop saying it! If she did, she would most likely be a vet and therefore, could kick your ass!

12) Bin Laden and the Taliban are not communists, so stop saying "Let's go kill those Commie's!!!" And stop asking us where he is!!!! Crystal balls are not standard issue in the military. That reminds me ... if you see anyone calling those damn psychic phone numbers; let me know, so I can go kick their ass.

13) Flyboy (Air Force), Jar Head (Marines), Grunt (Army), Squid (Navy) etc, are terms of endearment we use describing each other. Unless you are a service member or vet, you have not earned the right to use them. That could get your ass kicked.

14) Last but not least, whether or not you become a member of the military, support! our troops and their families. Every Thanksgiving and religious holiday that you enjoy with family and friends, please remember that there are literally thousands of sailors and troops far from home wishing they could be with their families. Thank God for our military and the sacrifices they make every day. Without them, our country would get its ass kicked.

- "It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.

- It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.

- It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.

- It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag."

(Authored by
Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, Sergeant, USMC

Here's a line for that..

"The next time someone waves a flag or posts about a person waving the flag, kick their motherfucking ass."

Stop with the patriotic crap, please. I have to keep my food stomached.
This forum isn't America's Best. The same thing must have been posted 25 thousand fucking times.

"omg hey dued salut teh flag or i kick ur mufa fukion ass dued, omgosh"

hush and go hug a tree or save a seal Captain Quim

Here here Balty thanks for posting that. Damn straight!

Oh and Halo even though it does say stuff pertaining to the American Military as far as im concerned its ALL Military...yes that includes Europe also

Halo, i HOPE to god u dont live in the U.S. >: Baltyn Good post , need more of this.

Proud to be an American

proud to be an american!

yee-haw

Im with Halo, keep this shit in your "hearts". Its like the whole idea of gay people. Im totally fine with gay people. But when they start having sex in front of you you cringe.

But when they start having sex in front of you you cringe.

Ahhh yes, the good old, "I don't have the will-power to turn away, so you should change YOUR behavior to satisfy my lack of self-control" game. So many are playing it now here in the US with our airwaves - looks as if it's catching down-under too...

Really, you couldn't help but continue reading, even though you were smart enough (is that a stretch?) to know what was going to follow?

Fellows! Release control of his computer, and untape his eyelids.

From Halochanter
Whole "STOPZ BENIG PATRIOC. AMERIKANS MAKE ME PUKE CAUSE THEY ARE PATRIOC! post

Why did you feel the need to post this?

>>Im totally fine with gay people. But when they start having sex in front of you you cringe.

I'd cringe too. But I'd cringe even more if I had to watch an ugly elderly heterosexual couple having sex.

Bottom line: fo fucking in regular public streetcorners, mkey? Not for straights and not for gays. And contrary to popular belief, most gays, like most straights, would never have sex in public. :)

Btw, how the fuck did the gay issue spill over to this thread too? :rolleyes

i wasnt talking gays in particular. Its just a situation people can relate to. Ok.. I'm totally fine with old people loving each other, but when they start having sex in front of me i cringe.

You dont have to change your behavior, but certainly i have the right to disapprove in both situations? conflicting rights. I posted my opinion. Just like Rezu did "good post we need more of this" is just as bad as "i dont want more of this", "i love america" is just as bad as "this makes me nauseous". So just because the opinions dont coincide with your own doesnt make them any less valid, faust.

Really, you couldn't help but continue reading, even though you were smart enough (is that a stretch?) to know what was going to follow?

Just because my opinions dont coincide with your blind patriotism, does that lessen my right to post the other side? You are suggesting that i shouldnt post at all because im not in agreement with the majority of the posters here, that seem to get incensed when the other side is presented. So much so that they resort to petty flaming.

This is why i shouldn't post? Having only one side of the story revealed to you in any situation wouldnt be productive in terms of opinion giving, now would it, faust?

'Halo, i HOPE to god u dont live in the U.S. '

- I live in Texas, my house is actually a giant American Flag draped over a frame of timber.
Everyday I sing that national antheme thingy where you put your hand over your heart, or is it pledge allegience? I dunno. I do both! And uhh.. yes. I also voice my homophobic and racial opinions every so often, and uhm, I go shooting robbers with my lavish array of weaponary.

How could I NOT be American?
Ask Faust. I live next door. And Fandros lives down the road.
I had a few beers with LL last night too.
And, and, I said "I'm like soooo drunk". SEE! I SPEAK AMERICAN TOO! I even say "mom"!!!

I live in Texas, my house is actually a giant American Flag draped over a frame of timber.
Everyday I sing that national antheme thingy where you put your hand over your heart, or is it pledge allegience? I dunno. I do both! And uhh.. yes. I also voice my homophobic and racial opinions every so often, and uhm, I go shooting robbers with my lavish array of weaponary.



If that were true Halo you'd actually be pretty cool to hang with. Oh well, I guess you can keep wishing.

Just because my opinions dont coincide with your blind patriotism,

Ahhh yes, I'm blindly patriotic! I bet you can tell by the fact that in the only statement in my post relating to policy here in the US, I was disagreeing with my govn't (heavy-handed "broadcast decency laws" that passed with heavy support from BOTH parties). That's very astute, Grumby.

does that lessen my right to post the other side?

But of course not. I think you'll not find me suggesting that anywhere. Well, actually, just in case I missed something, can you look back and point to me where I did? In fact, look back at that last post and show me where my "blind patriotism" was at. Except my quick statment critical of a decision my govn't made...that's obviously blind patriotism in action.

You are suggesting that i shouldnt post at all because im not in agreement with the majority of the posters here

LOL, no. Please show me where I said that. I actually encourage people that disagree to post. I feel it's good for all involved (in the long run) to be exposed to differing opinions.

that seem to get incensed when the other side is presented.

I don't disagree with you in the slightest on this point. Many do. Hell, I do sometimes. And, it even looks like you do on occasion.

So much so that they resort to petty flaming.

Need a tissue?

This is why i shouldn't post?

Show me where I said that.

Having only one side of the story revealed to you in any situation wouldnt be productive in terms of opinion giving, now would it, faust?

Wow, that's almost exactly what I said a few lines up. Looks like we agree completely. The funny thing about it all is I was not asking you to not post. You were asking others to not post (keep this shit in your "hearts") because it seemed to bother you somehow...yet here you are thinking I'm oppressing you because I merely stated that asking others to NOT post when you could just avoid the thread is silly.

<font size = -2>hypocrisy - n 1: an expression of agreement that is not supported by real conviction</font>

faust is a lame

Really, you couldn't help but continue reading, even though you were smart enough (is that a stretch?) to know what was going to follow?

The flames that follow, which is what you meant, yes? By "you couldnt help but continue reading", i assumed it meant finished reading that article so that i could not form any such opinions and thus not post, it seemed to me a proposed deterrant from you. But then perhaps i misinterpreted.

With the blind patriotism thing, again i didnt mean you singularly, as on the other thread, its blind patriotism like "i hope halo doesnt live in the US" simply because he feels queasy when reading that post. "need more threads of this" of what? im fairly certain Rezu was inferring to the "america is great" genre. Perhaps our definitions of Blind patriotism are different, perhaps in a different context, shrug.

Word games are fun :(

The flames that follow, which is what you meant, yes?

Oh, nope, nope...meant once you were a few lines into the first post you might as well stop reading, because you know it's going to be "God Bless America" subject matter the rest of the way through.

Nope, no attempt at deterring you from saying, "u guys r a lame" (ala Tierfin), but more to say, telling them to not post when you could just ignore it is somewhat backwards.

With the blind patriotism thing, again i didnt mean you singularly

Nope, figured that since my quote was at the top, and a line addressing me was at the bottom that whole paragraph was dedicated to me (I am *slightly* megolamaniacal), and I didn't see myself (in this one) being 'blindly" patriotic.

perhaps in a different context

Yeah, I think you were addressing others in the thread (after some clarification here, of course) whereas I interpreted it as addressing me. It happens. Hell, I even made a mistake once.

'telling them to not post when you could just ignore it is somewhat backwards.'

- Ignore something so fookin annoying? Not on my watch.
Someone has to keep the sickening patriotic levels down to a minimum around here.
Kept unchecked, half of ya would be posting pictures of your hot little Yanky bodies wrapped in the old flag, and writing poems Ode a la Bush.

No sirrey. Cannot have that.

Someone has to keep the sickening patriotic levels down to a minimum around here.

Halo, you're not doing a very good job.

All stand to sing ...

The Battle Hymn of the Republic!

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored,
He has loosed the fateful lightening of His terrible swift sword
His truth is marching on.

Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.

I have seen Him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps
They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps
l can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps
His day is marching on.

Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.

I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnish`d rows of steel,
"As ye deal with my contemners, So with you my grace shall deal;"
Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with his heel
Since God is marching on.

Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.

He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat
He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment-seat
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet!
Our God is marching on.

Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.

In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me:
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,
While God is marching on.

Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.

My country, 'tis of Thee,
Sweet Land of Liberty
Of thee I sing;
Land where my fathers died,
Land of the pilgrims' pride,
From every mountain side
Let Freedom ring.


My native country, thee,
Land of the noble free,
Thy name I love;
I love thy rocks and rills,
Thy woods and templed hills,
My heart with rapture thrills
Like that above.


Let music swell the breeze,
And ring from all the trees
Sweet Freedom's song;
Let mortal tongues awake;
Let all that breathe partake;
Let rocks their silence break,
The sound prolong.


Our fathers' God to Thee,
Author of Liberty,
To thee we sing,
Long may our land be bright
With Freedom's holy light,
Protect us by thy might
Great God, our King.


Our glorious Land to-day,
'Neath Education's sway,
Soars upward still.
Its hills of learning fair,
Whose bounties all may share,
Behold them everywhere
On vale and hill!


Thy safeguard, Liberty,
The school shall ever be,
Our Nation's pride!
No tyrant hand shall smite,
While with encircling might
All here are taught the Right
With Truth allied.


Beneath Heaven's gracious will
The stars of progress still
Our course do sway;
In unity sublime
To broader heights we climb,
Triumphant over Time,
God speeds our way!


Grand birthright of our sires,
Our altars and our fires
Keep we still pure!
Our starry flag unfurled,
The hope of all the world,
In peace and light impearled,
God hold secure!

The Battle Hymn of the Republic!

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord
Hmmm. :|

- Ignore something so fookin annoying? Not on my watch

so in halo logic land your posts are just as supposedly gay and worthless as the original post. Go Go vicious circles!!

here's another great song:

From the Halls Of Montezuma
To the shores of Tripoli;
We fight our country's battles
In the air, on land, and sea;
First to fight for right and freedom
And to keep our honor clean;
We are proud to claim the title of
United States Marine

Our flag's unfurled to every breeze
From dawn to setting sun;
We have fought in every clime and place
Where we could take a gun;
In the snow of far off northern lands
And in sunny tropic scenes;
You will find us always on the job-
The United States Marine

Here's health to you and to our Corps
Which we are proud to serve;
In many a strife we've fought for life
And never lost our nerve;
If the Army and the Navy
Ever look on Heaven's scenes;
They will find the streets are guarded by
United States Marines

A ballpark favorite everywhere.

If tomorrow all the things were gone
I'd worked for all my life,
And I had to start again
with just my children and my wife,
I'd thank my lucky stars
to be living here today,
'Cause the flag still stands for freedom
and they can't take that away.


I'm proud to be an American
where at least I know I'm free,
And I won't forget the men who died
who gave that right to me,
And I gladly stand up next to you
and defend her still today,
'Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land
God Bless the U.S.A.


From the lakes of Minnesota
to the hills of Tennessee,
Across the plains of Texas
from sea to shining sea.
From Detroit down to Houston
and New York to L.A.,
There's pride in every American heart
and it's time we stand and say:


I'm proud to be an American
where at least I know I'm free,
And I won't forget the men who died
who gave that right to me,
And I gladly stand up next to you
and defend her still today,
'Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land
God Bless the U.S.A.

TITLE: Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition
(date is around wwII)

Down went the gunner, a bullet was his fate
Down went the gunner, and then the gunner's mate
Up jumped the sky pilot, gave the boys a look
And manned the gun himself as he laid aside The Book, shouting...

{Refrain}
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition
And we'll all stay free

Praise the Lord and swing into position
Can't afford to be a politician
Praise the Lord, we're all between perdition
And the deep blue sea

Yes the sky pilot said it
Ya gotta give him credit
For a sonofagun of a gunner was he

Shouting Praise the Lord, we're on a mighty mission
All aboard, we ain't a-goin' fishin'
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition
And we'll all stay free

Praise the Lord and swing into position
Can't afford to sit around and wishin
Praise the Lord, we're all between perdition
And the deep blue sea

Praise the Lord and swing into position
All aboard, we're on a mighty mission
Praise the Lord, we're all between perdition
And the deep blue sea

(My grampa used to sing this song to us on the extremely rare occasion he ever talked about this war. I find it interesting to note that religion is so often interwoven into patriotism, whether the God is Christ, Budda or Allah)

In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me:
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,
While God is marching on.


Sorry, I'm still kinda confused, so I'm going to try this again Akipt. Can you please just tell me what this "God" you believe in is. Until we can understand who/what this word is you speak of, it will be empty in meaning. Any type of definition as to "God" will seperate the term from a similar term, "Zapdogant", which, at this point, has similar word-value. And I'm serious about this, I honestly want to know if you can just give me a simple clarification for this term. Thanks in advance :)

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Sorry, I'm still kinda confused, so I'm going to try this again Akipt. Can you please just tell me what this "God" you believe in is. Until we can understand who/what this word is you speak of, it will be empty in meaning. Any type of definition as to "God" will seperate the term from a similar term, "Zapdogant", which, at this point, has similar word-value. And I'm serious about this, I honestly want to know if you can just give me a simple clarification for this term. Thanks in advance <hr></blockquote>

Just stick your fingers in your ears and go 'Lalalalalallalalaala' until the world goes kaboom or you die Daidal and everything will be alright.

Just stick your fingers in your ears and go 'Lalalalalallalalaala' until the world goes kaboom or you die Daidal and everything will be alright.
Ooo burnnnnnn? Thanks Zehn, I'll keep that in mind. In the mean time, you can answer the question too if you feel compelled... or you can sit there and make halarious witty remarks of no intellectual value.

You don't show any sincere desire to know the answer to the question, only an attempt to aggravate. The answer has been given multiple times over various threads.

Ooo burnnnnnn

dont be an idiot.

You don't show any sincere desire to know the answer to the question, only an attempt to aggravate. The answer has been given multiple times over various threads.

A.) Thats not true (and thanks for being the self-righteous asshole you are to declare that I'm not sincere. I've only asked honestly and politely every time it is thrown into politics and waited for a response to even begin to provoke the discussion-- if I'd wanted to merely aggravate, I would have already done so, don't ya think?), and if so please show me or give me a link so I can respond to that, and

B.) Attempt to aggravate? Oh, and I'm not aggravated when religion is your guiding force for politics? Fine, fuck that. Throw religion around all you want Zehn, I know you do and I sure as hell know Akipt does, but you can't respond to a simple question like that? Smoke that poppy up boys, or learn to defend your reasoning. I'll call bullshit when I see it, and your complete inability to even substantiate a major tenent of your argument (or so it appears, perhaps it is not so prominent in yours, but Akipt's at least) is just absurd.





dont be an idiot.
You're welcome to respond as well Dae and see who you are actually calling an idiot. Or not, you guys have done a great evasion job already, so I suppose I shouldn't expect it to change now. It's a simple question...

get back to you in the morning bro.

In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,

Now it seems kinda obvious to me which religion this pertains to? Am i extremely intelligent, misinformed? or is daidal simply an idiot? One that glorifies christ, christianity or one of its branches, yes?

Battle Hymn of the Republic was written in the 1910s as a song for Pro - Temperance forces.

Can you please just tell me what this "God" you believe in is. Until we can understand who/what this word is you speak of, it will be empty in meaning.
This is a ridiculous request. Explain what love is. Millions of songs and poems and works of art have been created to try to express the undefinable.
If you are asking for Akipt to give a universal all inclusive definition of God, you might as well as a Physist for a "Unified Theory of Everything"
You want to know what God is? Explain how a Mother feels for a child in the same sentance that you explain Black Matter in space. Define the deepest emotion you have ever felt coupled with the most resounding truth you have ever heard.

Throw religion around all you want Zehn, I know you do and I sure as hell know Akipt does...

Very ironic indeed.

"1) The next time you see an adult talking (or wearing a hat) during the playing of the National Anthem ... kick their ass."

Sorry, I didn't realize your were Canadian...oh and have the right not to participate even of you weren't :rolleyes

"2) When you witness firsthand someone burning the American Flag in protest ... kick their ass."

Sorry, they have the right....no really I'm sorry they have the right.

"3) Regardless of the rank they held while they served, pay the highest amount of respect to all veterans."

Will do!!

"4) (GUYS) If you were never in the military, DO NOT pretend that you were."

Okay, never planned to though.

"Such ignorance deserves an ass kicking (children are exempt)."

Such stupidity deserves a labotomy....that goes for any time you say this "...and kick their ass."

"The proper word to describe her is "traitor.""

Agreed.

""Your mama wears combat boots""

Your father smells of elderberries confused me :')

Funny if you take a lot of it as a joke...some of it is right on, most of it is...dumb.

This is a ridiculous request. Explain what love is. Millions of songs and poems and works of art have been created to try to express the undefinable.

yep thats a very similar answer as to what i was thinking at the time.


This goes back to the whole i find it so funny that people question topics like this from the people that believe it. I hardly see someone demand so many answers, hell it wasnt like he was trying to push his believes onto you but you felt compelled to challenge them for no reason. Next time you want an answer to what God is go and figure out the purpose of love or better yet define the exact meaning of love. That means why we can love, children, friends, family, significant others all in different aspects of it. Explain is purpose for evolution. Explain the amounts of love we can all have, cause i bet you never once question an existance of love yet still believe in it undeniably.

Excellent, we have a start.


Now it seems kinda obvious to me which religion this pertains to? Am i extremely intelligent, misinformed? or is daidal simply an idiot? One that glorifies christ, christianity or one of its branches, yes?
I'm not asking which "God" he is speaking of, I'm asking what of this "God" he is speaking of, just to clarify.



If you are asking for Akipt to give a universal all inclusive definition of God, you might as well as a Physist for a "Unified Theory of Everything
I'm not asking for an "all inclusive" definition of God, simply for a quick insight into what this being he is talking about is, or simple inherent characteristics. Surely that is not too difficult, for it is an absurdity to claim to know the unknowable, something Christian theologians have been trying to address for centuries. Failure to do so makes the statement "I believe in God" is as rational as "I believe in Zapdogant". This is a good start though, here is where it becomes interesting.




You want to know what God is? Explain how a Mother feels for a child in the same sentance that you explain Black Matter in space. Define the deepest emotion you have ever felt coupled with the most resounding truth you have ever heard.
Next time you want an answer to what God is go and figure out the purpose of love or better yet define the exact meaning of love.
At first glance, I've noticed that you've effectively skipped giving any definition to God. Doing so renders the rest of your argument moot, but I will address it anyways. While I see you cover that in your own way, which I will address, I'd still like to see a definition for God. I don't blame you for answering the way you did, any definition is very tricky and very hard, and, if you cannot tell from my stance, imo impossible.

At second glance, it appears like you are actually admitting to being incapable of defining God, which I sure hope you aren't for the sake of your argument. If you were, you'd run into huge problems. You see, to state that God is incomprehensible is to say that the concept of God is purely unknowable. When you use this as an explanation of God, (an explanation of which is absolutely required in order to prevent the catastrophe of having a Zapdogant in place of God) you are effectively saying that you are explaining the concept of God by saying that it cannot be explained. If you are seriously asserting this as your claim, this discourse cannot continue without much laughter from my part. It is actually insulting to logic to say you have an idea of the unknowable-- the contradiction is rediculous-- and therefore you must reject that and have reverted to worshiping Zapdogant, a word or idea devoid of any content or meaning. So for your sake, I"m going to assume that is not what you meant.



And now for my third angle on your little proposition, and my first one that actually deconstructs what I'm going to believe to be what you intended. Heres what you're doing-- you're proposing to me that because I cannot specifically define abstract concepts such as truth, or love, that God does not need to be defined. There are two ways that I can go with this: The first, and more elementary, is to allow you to say that because these finite ideas cannot be defined, you can then suggest that the idea of God is likened to an abstract conception we entail in our finite minds. However, such an anthropomorphic view of God completely derails any other characteristics you'd place on the idea of god, from transcendence, to omniscience. Or, if I'm bored, I can turn to another great critique of this argument. George H. Smith explains this point very well in his book "Atheism", so I'm going to quote him to risk error in my explanation and confusion. He says:


"The theologian may object here, pointing out that many words-- such as "justice" and "consciousness" do not designate material beings-- do not signify material objects. The referents of these and many other words are immaterial, so why should the atheist complain when God is also said to be immaterial?

While it is true that "justice" and "consciousness" do not designate matieral beings, the theist must remember that they do not refer to immaterial beings either. "Justice" is a moral abstraction derived from various aspects of man's nature and social interactions. "Consciousness" refers to the state of awareness exhibited by particular living organisms. "Justice" and "consciousness" are not material entities, but they depend on matter for their existence. God, on the other hand, does not depend on matter in any way; he exists in his own right as an independent being."

Your use of Love, or Truth, or whatever abstract concept you wish to use is ultimately a very different notion from the idea of God, as they are concepts that are purely reliant upon "human nature and social interactions", and do not suggest otherwise. God, however, by his supposed nature, does not give such a definition, and is completely seperated from such a material nature. As a result, a definition is mandatory-- the old "But what about Love?" argument will not work.




Very ironic indeed.
Ironic? Maybe. Its a saying that is thrown around in our society, nothing more. Your skill at one-liners while your colleagues fight your battles is very impressive.




This goes back to the whole i find it so funny that people question topics like this from the people that believe it. I hardly see someone demand so many answers, hell it wasnt like he was trying to push his believes onto you but you felt compelled to challenge them for no reason.
This whole idea originated back in the Gay Marriage issue a while back, at which point he also refused to answer this, but used his religious morality as the basis for his attacks on the idea. And you're damn right I'm going to attack his religion if he uses that to justify his politics of descrimination and prejudice. His desire to abstain from promoting the civil liberties of select members of society based on his religion is very much so him pushing his beliefs onto everyone. I don't go around knocking religion just because I can, but if hes going to use that as his token card for politics, I'll be here to rub his homophobic interpretation of religion in the dirt.

Define love for me and I'll define God for you. Simple as that.

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love I gain nothing Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always perseveres. Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away...And now these things remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
--1 Corinthians 13:1-8, 13

Daidal. You can TELL me or whoever whatever you want. Thats not the point. The point is what you actually believe. Its like honor. It doesnt matter what say or what people think, what matters is what you know when you look in the mirror. If dont have faith, then you dont. If you do, then you do. Not everyone is supposed to.
Ill never understand why people think science and god have to be at odds. Both scientists and theologists seek the same thing. It is more than irony that two sides so opposed to each other are both probably hurtling toward the same place. For example, I learned recently that the person who first thought of the big bang theory was a priest and it was proclaimed as proof of God. Many scientists are people of faith anyway, I think that more and more people are realizing on both sides that either position is not mutally exclusive.
anyway.. thats off the topic.
last quote
A man who was completely innocent, offered himself as a sacrifice for the good of others, including his enemies, and became the ransom of the world. It was a perfect act.

~ Mahatma Gandhi ~

Until we can understand who/what this word is you speak of, it will be empty in meaning.

i almost feel sorry for you because with this exact argument you now lost the ability to feel, experience or even believe in love.


At first glance, I've noticed that you've effectively skipped giving any definition to God. Doing so renders the rest of your argument moot, but I will address it anyways

So in your finite logic you do understand what your saying right? You have the faith that God doesnt exist because he cant be proven to exist but and this is kinda key i have a faith that he does exist because not all things in life can be proven by our finite lifespan. Go read a book by leo tolstoy a person that actually felt the same way you do right now. In the book he and i dont have exact lines but explains that because man is a finite creature (meaning we die) thus we are only able to understand the finite realities in life we can never understand the infinate whereas our minds are designed for that exact purpose (too bad some dont bother with it). That right there should give you some form of answer but ill continue just for safe measurement. On the fact that because you cant explain to me why such a thing as god cannot exist your argument towards no such God is also now moot, as you have stated mine to be.



And just because a complete definition cant be explained doesnt mean a partial one shouldnt. God is love to those that choose to believe it, meaning with the same faith that NON-BELIEVERS have in not believing in god they DO believe in love. What sense does that make? I have faith that God exists but im wrong because it cant 100% be defined in the means you want them to, however, i believe in love as well when in fact i also cannot 100% explain its definition to you but that doesnt matter? Wow so proud of yourself you obviously failed to realize any of what stands in front of you. According to my understanding God created man in his own image and giving man that which he failed to give his servants a choice to belief and love him, i suggest you stick to yours and ill stick to mine.


On a last and final note think of faith...and then perhaps you can have more of a discussion. Until then really you need to stop being a complete idiot. Picking fights you have no intention of providing any valid points to is childish and petty and im sure you find yourself a better person for doing such.


Grats to you!

Will respond in the morning/tomorrow afternoon when time presents itself, I appreciate you actually making complete and thought-out responses. Until then, have a good day.

Don't beat them up because they don't understand patriotism..pity them.

Pity their self imposed diluting of culture that has left them unable to even grasp the concept of a common vision that so many believe in. Pity their lack of pride in the achievements of their fellow countrymen. Pity them because they'll never know what it is to hear their national anthem and get goosebumps knowing what it stands for, what it means, all of those who gave in the pursuit/defense of it.

If you were them, and had no real pride in who you were, where you came from...you'd probably tend to dislike people who did too.

'Pity their self imposed diluting of culture that has left them unable to even grasp the concept of a common vision that so many believe in'

- Pity you who can't see beyond your pride and vanity, unable to grasp the concept of any common point besides that which is put forward by your lovely patriotic masses. Can't seem to understand anything that so many others believe in, simply because it doesn't "fit" with your national pride.

'Pity their lack of pride in the achievements of their fellow countrymen. Pity them because they'll never know what it is to hear their national anthem and get goosebumps knowing what it stands for, what it means, all of those who gave in the pursuit/defense of it.'

- Pity their lack of respect for any country but their own, pity their ignorance at thinking they're better than anyone else. Pity their shunning of other cultures and peoples. Pity their sexual arousing as they hear the national anthem and get a right boner, as they recount all their lavish "victiories" and "freedomes".

'If you were them, and had no real pride in who you were, where you came from...you'd probably tend to dislike people who did too. '

- If you were them, and had no sense of understanding and individuality in life and gave gave in to ignorant stupidity, unable to see beyond the piece of land you were born on... you'd probably tend to dislike anybody and everybody who wasn't a patriot too.

And for godsake bible bashers, don't start getting bible-quote-happy.
I've just eaten by fucking breakfast.

Allow me to define god: Dr.Phill. Big white dude, lots of sound advice.

this thread is now declared turbo-hijacked

Hah..


i almost feel sorry for you because with this exact argument you now lost the ability to feel, experience or even believe in love.

You have any idea how many guys have no idea what love is, and just assume lust is love? Heh.

Pity their lack of respect for any country but their own, pity their ignorance at thinking they're better than anyone else

Ok i had to laugh at this one.....just because we are American we do not respect other countries??? Bull crap. Its morons IN those countries who speak out their ass that we do not have any respect for.


Pity their shunning of other cultures and peoples.

Think you might want to think on this one Captain Quim

Pity their sexual arousing as they hear the national anthem and get a right boner, as they recount all their lavish "victories" and "freedoms"

While i have been know to get goose bumps during the National Anthem and the Marine Corp Hymn....don't ever remember getting wood from either.

It's absolutely true Halo.

One reason you and others are so disturbed about patriotism is because you're unable to really understand it, and you are envious.

Then you get angry because of that and try to attack it.

Take a step back and look at the venom in your posts, and ask yourself why other people having pride in their country pisses you off so much.

Because, on almost all accounts, it leads to down right ignorance and complete vanity.
You see it, time and time again on these boards. Yeah I'm pissed off when I talk about it, because it bugs me. So bloody much. And especially when you Yanks are cheesy anyway, throw in the patriotic rubbish and you go on emotion trips.
It's all that "YEHAR WE KICK ASS!"
"NUKE 'EM! WE ROCK!"
"GOD BLESS AMERICA - THE BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD."
Excuse me while I puke my testicals up.
It leads to a higher than thou attitude, from which there are some key people on this board that express that extremely well.
It's also a playing field for stupidity and close-mindedness. People will refuse to accept or consider other views simply because it's not patriotic. And you see that MOST OF ALL on this forum. Look at the original post, for fuck sake. Yeah, perhaps it was slightly humourous, but no doubt true. Especially when you have twats here replying with salutes and "damn right!" crap.

Do you see ANY of that behaviour from non-US people on this board? No.
Why?
They don't wear their patriotism on their sleeves and up their ass.

... you remember Jedd, Halo?

He was an immigrant to the states, but he certainly wore his country's agenda on his sleeve.

Why are you getting so upset? Save your testicles for later use, man!

Excuse me while I puke my testicals up.

When I read this, I was reminded of that guy in Happy Gilmore who said, "I eat shit like you for breakfast in the morning."
Happy replied, "You eat shit?"

I apologize for my duration of absence, never had enough time (or a functioning keyboard) to get a response hammered out. Anyways, here we go! :D


Define love for me and I'll define God for you. Simple as that.
I suppose you can consider it simple as that. While completely irrelevant as I'm not using "Love" as a basis for descriminatory beliefs, the idea of love is an abstraction that requires emotional exchange and is a complete need and willingness to do anything for the object of that love. Or, to quote dictionary.com, "A deep, tender, ineffable feeling of affection and solicitude toward a person, such as that arising from kinship, recognition of attractive qualities, or a sense of underlying oneness."

It is important to note here, that while the idea of love is something that we experience through our interactions with beings of known existence (unless you're Descartes), the idea of God is in an entire different structure of abstraction.

Define God whenever you are ready, thanks!




Ill never understand why people think science and god have to be at odds. Both scientists and theologists seek the same thing. It is more than irony that two sides so opposed to each other are both probably hurtling toward the same place.
Do they seek the same thing? I believe so. I don't necessarily agree that they will reach the same place however. Religion has a repeated history of accepting it's own dogma, and co-opting whichever adaption allows it to remain true once science has reached a new understanding. Most temporary theologians see them as not being at odds, and try rather hard to establish this knowledge as something that we all should understand.

In my opinion, however, science does not and will not need religion, as it has started from nothing and built up, not the other way around. Science doesn't care enough about religion in that it doesn't need it to succeed; Religion can do what it wants, including staying running behind science yelling "Wait up!" As one of my friends put it best, however, I think Religion should get off the swings and start playing in the sandbox with Astrology.




i almost feel sorry for you because with this exact argument you now lost the ability to feel, experience or even believe in love.
Not at all. Look at my first response and you will see why. The similarities include them being abstract concepts, and thats where it ends.




Go read a book by leo tolstoy a person that actually felt the same way you do right now. In the book he and i dont have exact lines but explains that because man is a finite creature (meaning we die) thus we are only able to understand the finite realities in life we can never understand the infinate whereas our minds are designed for that exact purpose (too bad some dont bother with it).
Naturally, that is the entire sum of elementary Christian theology. However, because the idea of God is completely incomprehensible, the Christian idea of God therefore reverts into agnosticism with a facade of comprehensibility. Unless of course you can give me a definition or way to understanding this God instead of just asking me about love...




On the fact that because you cant explain to me why such a thing as god cannot exist your argument towards no such God is also now moot, as you have stated mine to be.
I think you have me misunderstood. I'm not proving how God does not exist. I'm proving how it is irrational to believe that God exists. Same thing? Not quite. I don't believe that God cannot exist, I just simply don't believe that he does, hence the reason I'm an atheist. Because of this distinction, my point is not moot. If I were trying to prove God did not exist, I'd agree with you. I'm not, I'm simply saying why I don't believe he exists.





And just because a complete definition cant be explained doesnt mean a partial one shouldnt. God is love to those that choose to believe it, meaning with the same faith that NON-BELIEVERS have in not believing in god they DO believe in love. What sense does that make?
To answer the question first, a ton. Look at the my responses to the first and third quotations here and you'll see why they are on entirely differnet playing fields.

Secondly, what is this partial definition that you have given that I missed?





Wow so proud of yourself you obviously failed to realize any of what stands in front of you.
Thank you for the attack, next time wait until you have some intellectual prowess with which to make it. You're like (yay biblical referrences! This is for you Akipt!) David insulting Goliath for his lack of strength. Arrogant? That may have been, so prove me wrong, make me look like a dumbass! I want this discussion to keep going, make this even moderately challenging, please!




i suggest you stick to yours and ill stick to mine.
Thats fine by me, it is not my desire to change your or anybody's religious beliefs unless they are thrown into the realm of politics. If that is the case, as it was for Akipt and the reason I started this, expect to be destroyed. Until then, you are fine to believe whatever your mind or society conjures.





On a last and final note think of faith...and then perhaps you can have more of a discussion.
What about faith? Would you like to discuss the implications of faith? If so, go for it, you're the one asserting things here.





Until then really you need to stop being a complete idiot. Picking fights you have no intention of providing any valid points to is childish and petty and im sure you find yourself a better person for doing such.
I'm not picking fights I don't have a reason for. If you had read my post before, I only did it because Akipt throws it into the political ring. The post was directed towards him, you invited yourself in and tried to exude some trace of philosophical or theological ability. Don't get mad at me for that. Either lay an argument and begin the discussion, or bow out.




So I'm still waiting for a definition of God. Dae mentioned that I rejected the whole thing, but that a partial definition is moderately acceptable... I failed to see that partial definition, so if you have it give it to me. There must be something you can say about this God, for your sake I hope. Read some theological philosophy and come discuss with me, or even basic Catholic dogma if you wish. A definition is necessary for us even begin to approach the idea of faith in the said object. Otherwise, you fall into agnosticism and the Zapdogant dilemma.

Okay, quick question then. Do you want a 'definition' of the Christian God or just god in general?

So I'm still waiting for a definition of God.
So am I
So is the Pope.

"A God who let us prove his existence would be an idol."

-Dietrich Bonhoeffer

get it? What if we COULD define God. What then? Imagine what life would be like with a easily definable and provable God. Maybe some giant fire in the sky that would thunder wisdom and instruction so we never had to think for ourselves or exercise freewill.
What are you looking for?
Dammit.. Define YOU. Explain exactally who you are.

As far as FAITH (notice FAITH, not RELIGION) running behind science. Faith, true faith, doesnt require or want proof or evidence. I beleive in God because I FEEL it to be true. Ive never seen a burning bush, or experienced a miracle, and I dont need to. To me God is a living concept, a massive and timeless expression of Love, of Hope, of Beauty. God is the greatest part of what humanity struggles to be. God is as much a product of us as we are a Product of God.
We need to drop the bullshit greco-roman concepts of a diety sitting on mountain top watching over humanity. Jesus said he was the Son of Man. Not the son of God. The Son of Man.
In my mind God isnt a being. None of us live in a Vacuum. We are all connected. Theories are coming out now in science that matter runs through all of us and everything, like a stream of existance that flows through all things.
Havent we always KNOWN this?
Havent we felt this without billion dollar microscopes telling us it?
Science is working very hard to prove things we KNOW. Still science has no explaination for 1 milisecond before the "Big Bang" (originally thought of by a Priest and used as "evidence" for the proof of God). That one second, all things were possible, from NOTHING came everything. All matter, every single speck that we are made of came into existance at that moment. Can we create matter? No. And as far as I know, we cant destroy matter either. (I dont know about antimatter)
So the same stuff that spontaneously *poofed* into existance that runs through all of us and everytihng and has seen every moment through time, cannot be shrugged off.
But thats the beauty of life. The magnificence of freewill and the human spirit.
We are going to conquer space eventually touch all the stars, we will figure out all these cosmic riddles and spend countless lifetimes devoted to this unquenchable QUEST for knowledge, and I have the feeling when it is all said and done, we will find what we are looking for right where it has always been, right in front of us staring at us in the face.
But isnt that human nature? The young man goes out to into the world to find something only to realize it was at home the whole time. Universal themes, self evident truths.
Its part of who we are, and its in us for a reason. Its what makes us human.

I suppose you can consider it simple as that. While completely irrelevant as I'm not using "Love" as a basis for descriminatory beliefs, the idea of love is an abstraction that requires emotional exchange and is a complete need and willingness to do anything for the object of that love. Or, to quote dictionary.com, "A deep, tender, ineffable feeling of affection and solicitude toward a person, such as that arising from kinship, recognition of attractive qualities, or a sense of underlying oneness."


this is my point which you fail to realize. To some people thats exactly what God is. And you cannot argue against that now can you? To you God is not that but you don't believe in his existence and therefor have nothing to base what true belief is.


And for the record your still missing the purpose of faith. You can use all the big words you want and push the subject around but this is a discussion of faith, plain and simple. And just to help you understand just a little better i wasnt using faith in the way you thought i was. True look at love and though you may think of as different i never wanted you to completely compare the two as you have been doing since the start of this.
Love exists for what purpose?

And with emotions like love in this world what keeps the idea of a higher being a no chance? Why have faith if all things should be defined perfectly then there wouldnt be any reason for faith?


Your missing the point but thats because you argue for what you refuse to believe not what you can.

'Science is working very hard to prove things we KNOW.'

- Like the Earth being alive for millions of years, while creationism has it pegged at about five thousand?
Just one of an endless stream of scientific facts that, aparantly, we didn't know, and certainly not religion.

'What if we COULD define God. What then? Imagine what life would be like with a easily definable and provable God'

- That's right up there with asking me not to prove the existence of my invisible third arm, but believing it nonetheless.
(it's of great advantage.. being able to play with the general when people think you're eating dinner! Haha..ha../sigh)