stacks.msnbc.com/news/946836.asp (http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/946836.asp)

In other news, recent studies have discovered that the sky is in fact blue, and that most people do need sleep.

Dear Wliten:

Read the whole article :)

The gender split in results in at least one survey cited in this article changed dramatically depending on the relative equality that women in the given society had, and whether the women felt that they were actually safe in reporting honestly (scores went way up when results were mailed in or placed in a locked box). This is hardly suprising when one considers that the societal 'cost' (and more specifically, societal punishment) has historically been much higher for women than it is for men ('Honor killings', for example, still routinely occur in the Muslim world, whereas the men in these situations go off pretty much scot-free). As a nonmonogamous woman (note that nonmonogamy != promiscuity) who has been involved with three monogamous male partners over the years, I tend to take these conclusions (that the 'promiscuity gap' between men and women is all hard-wired) with a big grain of salt, especially in light of repeated studies that have revealed that the majority of married women engage in at least one affair in their lifetimes, and > 90% feel no guilt about it whatsoever...

I *do* think that males do tend to be more willing to both petition openly for sex, and to be willing to have sex at the drop of a hat. However, the researchers appear to be missing something here, namely the issue of female choice, or to quote Kialya from a thread a couple of months ago: 'I'm a woman. If I want sex, I *get* sex...' (please note that she then made reference to her hubby, I do not mean to besmirch her character as it were :) ). I'd submit that the difference in *desire* is not so great as it might appear on the surface, but since women do not usually have to petition for sex, they do not have to be so indiscriminate or demonstrative about it either. (I used a reference to lekking birds here originally, but to use a human cliche, we know 5 minutes into the date whether we're getting any that night ;) ) I would submit that women, for a varety of reasons (including male mate guarding, which not infrequently results in physical endangerment of the female if she is caught), tend to be much more subtle about their choices, but are no less interested in having access to partners that they find attractive than men are.

There have been some interesting studies in primates that show just how sneaky females can be as far as both arranging, and hiding, their promiscuity. Because chimps and bonobos in particular are social, tribal primates, who one mates affects status, political and social alliances, etc, much like in human society. Female chimps, mandrills, and numerous other species of primates have repeatedly been observed arranging 'liasons' with lower status males that they favored while their mates were out, sometimes actually covering the mouth of their favored mate to keep him from making noise during the act. Low-status male mandrills don't, due to repressed hormone levels, get as large and heavy as the alpha male does, and so females will take them up into the treetops where the high status male can't reach them.

In short: just because it (female promiscuity) operates within different parameters, one should not assume it is not operating in women, or operating significantly less than it is in men.

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

I'd like to add one more thing to this thread. Marriage laws (which are nearly universal in human society) exist primarily in order to protect male paternity, not to secure female security, despite the fact that, yes, females do place a priority on providing for their offspring.

In societies where both male *and* female promiscuity are tolerated, something very interesting happens: In traditional (non Muslim) Balinese society, for example, the average woman has 5 children in her lifetime, by four different men, despite the fact that she usually stays married to one person. However, male parental behavior is very different. Males tend to be fairly indifferent to the children of their marriage (which may or may not be theirs), but devote a lot of time and resources to, and dote on, the children of their *sisters*. If one does the math, it becomes apparent that the males are devoting parenting resources to the children which they know to contain their genetic lineage...

Okay (untwists panties ;) ), I think I'll go take my nap now. I just get a little bent when folks make sweeping generalizations about male promiscuity (especially the noxious bits of 'biological determinism' that folks spew as a result of data that note the fact of the more obvious male promiscuity), and assume that different = less or nonexistant...

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

repeated studies that have revealed that the majority of married women engage in at least one affair in their lifetimes, and > 90% feel no guilt about it whatsoever...

Ugh Im never getting married.. Thanks Nydia :\

Master Damoiel Mindbend
Retired Enchanter of the 60th Season

As a nonmonogamous woman (note that nonmonogamy != promiscuity) who has been involved with three monogamous male partners over the years...

Does that make you a reverse Mormon? :p Sorry, couldn't resist.

This thread is just a little to in-depth for my liking.Plus i have no experiance with marital life *nor ever plan to have*
One night stands and short flings are better imo :D Though i`m only a teen so that may change ;) doubt it though...

Dear Gulor:

Rofl! Uhm, no :) . I'm in the 9th year of a long-term relationship right now, and am sufficiently squeamish after having done the whole marriage thing once myself (and not again for me either, thank-you :) ) that I didn't even ask him to move in until 2 years ago... ;) .

Sorry if I made anybody squirm :) . I guess Thormir is right, I *am* pure evil (sniffle). To the young guys who responded in the thread, 1) interesting responses :) , and 2) I wouldn't lose sleep over what people do *over the course of their lifetime*. I truly believe (as stated in another thread) that people don't set out to do things with the deliberate intent of injuring others, and regarding such things as marital affairs, well, people do such things in their own time... and for their own reasons.

In my own case I tend to agree with something that was stated in the survey that split along gender lines, namely that, for most women, emotional betrayal is more significant than physical betrayal; and on the emotional issue, maybe I'm a little odd here, but who has the right to intrude on, much less attempt to dictate, what transpires between the hearts of two other people, anyway? I truly love my partner, and we have a very happy life together, but I think it's a little nuts to expect him to be 'everything' for me emotionally and physically, nor do I want the rather daunting task of being 'everything' to him.

Okay, late for lecture, and I've probably introduced some folks to new levels of squeamish, if so I apologize...

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

*hands thread over to nidia*

Yeah, seems to be yours now :P

Thanks for your opinion in it though, interesting.

My understanding, from Psych 101, is that men require less care in picking partners because they can impregnate numerous females while a single female can only choose one mate at each time. This results in the maximum amount of reproduction and so is positive for the survival of the species. Obviously this is a basic, primal instinct that has been altered by society as the human species has no mortal enemies besides ourselves.

Women are the debil.

Like all things, theres many different shades of grey inbetween the two extremes.

I wouldn't assume anything about anyone I hadn't experienced firsthand from things like pyscology and sterotyping.

You can label People, sexes, tendancies, etc, all you like, and someone will shatter your vision of reality, or most likley you'll hurt/upset someone by enforcing your view of reality upon them.

Me being a good example(Arn't I Always?), I'm one of the lovley 3% of the male population that has the traits for true monogamy. I tend to be more interested in serious relationships, I'm incapible of having Sexual/Casual Relationships, because I'm incapible of being interested in anyone I can't see as a lifepartner.
Once I've chosen someone, all other women may as well be slugs, Cause I simply stop finding them attractive, and cheating isn't even the most remote thought.

I have diffaculties staying in friendships for females for same reason.
So whats the point?, I get hurt, often, because every women I meet assumes the worst of me, or, I end up in bad wrenching relationships I'm simply incapible of leaving by my own will.
I've put up with some of the worse imagineable abuse because of it. Anyways!.

End point: Insteada attaching labels to people, its best off to treat everyone as an individual, otherwise your doing *alot* of people a grave mis-service.

Sex based statistics are inately flawed cause ppl lie about sex

Carry on

You missed the resent publizised study of "navel-fluff".
It is now scientificly proven that it mostly consist of fabric from you're clothes.

/agree wholeheartedly Darus)

Or, as someone said, 'there are more differences within the sexes than between them'. *People* fall out along a continuum on this, and while more men on *average* tend to want more partners (or at least to fantasize about them while tending to actually want as much security as women do ;) ), it's silly to make assumptions on this just based on what plumbing a person has...

Not that I'm some swinging Mrs. Robinson or anything, but my ex-husband was one of those truly monogamous folks, and didn't even *dream* about anyone other than the person he was involved with. This seemed kind of, erm, pathological to me... :)

Regards,
Nydia

I stand by my earlier statement.

As stated in the previous posts, the article proves nothing about the trends which leave men to desire more partners than women. Surely it is more feasible to believe that since men are physically stronger than females the male culture has adapted to desire more partners than females do,
whereas a female would until modern times have to become acquainted with a male in order to survive, and would therefore cling to that person.
As our culture is changing, the differences between the sexes are getting less and i have come across quite a few totally nymphomatic girls who i'm sure would have behaved and thought entirely differently in a society which embraces freedom to a lesser degree.

I doubt genetic evolution is directly responsible for the differences mentioned at the beginning of the article.