www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLIT...index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/03/02/senate.guns/index.html)

Just another step in removing responsibility and accountability from society.

It's not my clients fault he shot 13 people. It's BUSHMASTER'S.

So i guess if I or someone in my family gets hit by a ford we can sue them now? Bunch of morons

heh, everyone expects the gun companies to be targeted by their advertisement? hah, they'll just be the blunt of the blame for murders saying "no, its not my fault smith and wesson made this gun so readily available to me, i'm insane! blame them, they deserve to be shot instead!"

Guns are evil.

Humans that use them wrong are.

Without a human in control, a gun is just another object.

People that believe "guns are evil" are just tools in the pussyfication of society.

I built the gun and test fired it before you used it for a walking stick on your sig.
Redneck Pussys like me build the shit you trust your life with.
You have no clue other than reading the interweb all day in the comfort of your mommys home.

I hate the way that they kill legislation by tacking riders onto the end of them.

Very annoying.

DC, blow me you bi-polar he/she/whatever.

Lol Amhorah, that reminded me of the Simpsons episode where the comet was going to hit springfield


Chairman: All in favor of the bill to save Springfield from the comet?

Everyone: Aye

One member: Wait a minute there Mr. Chairman, I'd like to tack on a rider to that bill. A funding for the perverted arts.

Chairman: Bill denied!

Ok, DC so why are guns evil? I'm sure you were being facetious with that little quip.

Instead of a automatic rifle, the government should finance Penis Enlargement surgery for the people who "need" one

How much killing power is enough? How many people do you need to be able to kill in under 3 mins to feel "safe"?

People want a handgun or 3.. cool deal, but I can think of no reason for people to own a military calibre assault rifle. Are deer wearing body armor?

"whaaaaaaaaaa cause I want one!"
Big deal, grow up. You cant own a Howitzer either, no matter how "cool" it would be.

We dont need gun control
We need BULLET control
Bullets should cost FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS A PIECE
That way people couldnt AFFORD to shoot each other. It'd be like "I'd smoke you motherfucker... if I could afford it. I'm gonna go get a second job, and when I get paid, your ass is mine bitch".
That way, when someone got shot, you know he did something to REALLY piss someone off because he has 5k's worth of metal in his head.

And also, there'd be no more drivebys. People would stop, get out of the car with a chainsaw, and saw the motherfucker open - 'cause no corpse is worth that kind of an investment.

- Chris Rock

Don't worry. They will come for the hand guns soon enough. An almost total ban of firearms is in the near future.

Though the bans don't do shit. I can go talk to my friend from India and have a crate of AK47s within a day.

Sure.. right. Ok Kaisar Sousa

The only reasons I DONT have an AK47, is because I'm not a fan of it, and I'm not going to break the law to get one.

Getting illegal weapons is all too easy and just saying it cant be done/ignoring it, doesn't help any.

How can you pass up this beauty Marzi?

<a href="http://forum.saiga-12.com/uploads/post-6-1077838323.jpg" target="_new">Clicke for image</a>

One sweet little toy. Shoots .308 or NATO 7.62x51 surplus. And believe it or not folks I have never killed anyone due to owning it. And it's totally legal.

Edit - Changed image to a link. Scroll bars are teh suck.

my fucking god im sorry that turned out so big. No idea why. On my web site I pulled it from it's much smaller.

People want a handgun or 3.. cool deal, but I can think of no reason for people to own a military calibre assault rifle.

What is, praytell, a "military calibre assault rifle" to you, LL?

One of the most common NATO rounds, the 5.56mm (.223), is certainly not one I would choose for shooting any large game. While the 7.62x39 (AK and SK) would probably be adequate, and the .308 (SA's M1-A, FN) has more room for charge and an overall higher muzzle velocity, one would still need a Class III FFL to even own an "assault rifle" in these "calibres", dig?

Using this rationale, would you also suggest that all cars imported into and made in the US should be equipped with governing devices limiting them to 75mph? I mean, after all, it's illegal to go faster than that and nobody NEEDS a personally owned vehicle that can do 0-60 in less than a safe and sane 15 to 20 seconds. Think of all the lives that would be saved!

OK Oz, we need to have a discussion about your gun photo. WHAT in the everliving hell are you doing leaving placemats of that "calibre" in the shot for? I was so stunned by them that I almost missed the fact that there was a rifle in the picture. From an artistic view, it did offer great contrast though. Trying to suggest something about the duality of man there, Pvt. Joker?

In order to redeem yourself, I demand you retake that picture with an oil-stained driveway as a background, or maybe just a backdrop of some dirt and a can of Copenhagen.

he does have a trash bag taped to his window, thats good for pretty ghetto!

Must... resist...
Ok, DC so why are guns evil?
Because they are made to kill people?

There, I said it, bring me a tree, I need a hug. :|

Edit : And resize this picture please!! :\

You are an idiot if you truely believe they are made to kill people. They are made to kill lions,tigers, and bears..oh my!


We talked about this over and over on this forum. WE DO NOT NEED ANY NEW GUN LAWS and certianly don't need to hold smith and wesson responsible for some crack addict blowing someone away with one. Foolish people.

Someone dies playing football time to go after the pig skin company, someone dies driving down the road time to go after car manufacturers..it will never stop once they are allowed to pass this shit.

When the engineer sat down at the design table, what was his goal? It was to create a efficent machine. What is the purpose of this machine? To kill. Simple.

www.ammo-oracle.com/#velocity (http://www.ammo-oracle.com/#velocity)
This link is pretty enlightening. Its a serious in-depth pro AR-15 site that when talking about the AR-15s stopping power, bullet fragmentation and wound profile uses human models.
Why? Because thats what it was designed for.
A 5.63 round from as close as 40m will fragment on impact creating a hole in a human body that is equal to the length of the round in its diameter.
While the AR15 Bushmaster comes standard with a 10 round clip, 30 round clips are easily availible, providing the supplier isnt out of stock due to high sales (most were on the sites I checked)
The AR15 also has a detachable/folding stock for easy concelment.

Ya know, its ironic, we go to war to prevent weapons of mass destruction from going into the hands of people who would use them irresponsibly. Yet the same people think its perfectly fine to distribute these weapons to our populace. Maybe if Saddam had promised to only use WMDs in low income urban areas we would have let him off.
The more of these on the market, the more that will find their way into dangerous hands.

This isn't just about assualt rifles though..its about any gun used, who made the gun, and making the manufactures accountable for any wrong doing with them. Its not right..want to ban assualt rifles..I can some what agree with that, I have absolutley no use for them but being an avid hunter and someone who actually likes to collect guns..this just makes them become even more expensive and just one more step closer to more government control on them.

Let me repeat though.. I am not a supporter of Assualt rifles getting in the hands of the general public. There does however need to be strict guidelines on what is and isnt an assualt rifle. Is my 7MM mag browing semi-auto an assualt rifle? Stuff a 30 round clip on it and someone could easily tag it "assualt".



We don't need it.



Ibudin

A 5.63 round from as close as 40m will fragment on impact creating a hole in a human body that is equal to the length of the round in its diameter.

Did you seriously read this? 1- WTF shoots a "5.63 round"? 2- Of course a bullet entering a mass will create a hole that is as big around as the bullet is. So will a stick, a pencil, or any other object pushed into somthing. Saying "equal to the length of the round (assume you mean bullet) in it's diameter" is meaning that a "5.63" projectile will create a 5.63 (mm?) hole in a person, if so applied. Well, tell whomever you quoted there to file that in the "No Shit" folder.

While the AR15 Bushmaster comes standard with a 10 round clip, 30 round clips are easily availible

The AR-15 does not use "clips", it uses "magazines" and anyone worth their salt knows the difference. Once again, whomever you were quoting there, LL, doesn't know shit about guns, or watches too many Gangsta mvoies and/or MTV and probably holds their pistols sideways when they shoot. I would favor a bill preventing them from having a gun, a car, a baseball bat, any thing sharp, or even a spork made by Nerf. (I might even support legislation to stuff their ignorant asses in the worlds largest EZ Bake Oven, but one step at a time.)

The AR15 also has a detachable/folding stock for easy concelment.

Bzzzzt. Not the one sitting about 30 feet from me. That's an option. That's like saying, "All Chevrolet automobiles are white" because you've see one that was white.

Ya know, its ironic, we go to war to prevent weapons of mass destruction from going into the hands of people who would use them irresponsibly. Yet the same people think its perfectly fine to distribute these weapons to our populace.

We have WMD being distributed to our populace? ROFL.

-"Pardon me. Is that Sarin you're using on your neighbors?"
-"Why, yes it is!"
-"Wow, seems to be doing a marvelous job...look at the infant convulsing! Where'd you get it?"
-"It was distributed to us! Just remember, when you call to order, the govn't only gives it to the poor, so lie about your income."

The more of these on the market, the more that will find their way into dangerous hands.

ThxStatistics. The more cars being driven, the higher chance of a fatal crash. The more swimming pools, the more chance that someone will drown.

you can own any gun you want legaly as long as you :
1. arent a felon
2. have enough money
3. time
4. patience

blah blah , daddy owns a gun shop, blah blah, class 3 license, blah blah, forgot more about guns than you ever will learn,

BTW, I hate BMW's and yuppys.

My brother collects all sorts of guns. I admit that I know little, if anything about them. He can ramble on for a good hour about every defining feature of every weapon he owns and I stand in amazement.

L2, I don't think anybody but crazy redneck militia fuckers purchase these weapons for hunting deer or defending themselves. I know my brother doesn't. He has a nice rifle for hunting and a handgun for defense.

The rest is a hobby. He enjoys going down to the bow and gun club nearby and firing off a couple rounds. Have you ever fired one of these guns? I myself am a fucking pussy and -I- firing his rifles and handguns. I used to play Counter-strike almost 24/7 and I was firing off weapons that looked like the shit I used in game. It was pretty cool.

I don't begrudge these people their hobbies. It's not their fault that their particular hobby involves an object that is designed for killing. But to be fair, if I really wanted, I could wait until someone is not looking and bludgeon them to death with my gameboy advance.

Of course, the obvious counter-argument is, "So it's okay to have anything as a hobby provided you don't hurt anyone? I should be able to keep a fully working nuke in my basement. It's nice to look at. Goes well with the curtains." I think it becomes a magnitude risk at that point. You could kill 30 people with a rifle but you could also kill 30 people with a kitchen knife. You set off a nuke though and you -will- kill hundreds in any urban or even rural area.


But then again, I could be talking out my ass. I haven't had breakfast yet. Late's.

The AR15 also has a detachable/folding stock for easy concelment.

This is actually more difficult to get than the guns themselves. I've tried and tried to get the collapse stock, but wound up getting one that looks like it, but doesn't collapse because they are illegal as fuck.

you can own any gun you want legaly as long as you :

More asinine shit spilling from your cock gobbler.

BTW, I hate BMW's and yuppys.

Good for you. Go back to playing your little computer game game. Your gonna get sunburn from all the natural light if you keep leaving the basement.

HAHA. just goes to show you im no photographer. That trash bag is covering my swamp cooler. LOL. Your right though it does look ghetto. I should have puller the curtain in front of it at least.

I'm amazed by what kind of guns you can own if you can jump through the right hoops.

I was flipping through the channels and saw a show on Outdoor Life Network where someone owns (and fires) an operational quad .50 anti aircraft gun somewhere in some state west of the Mississsippi.

Legally.

Granted, you can't exactly CONCEAL the thing, but I'm not sure that matters much.

I'm also pretty sure that anti-aircraft guns aren't assault rifles, so maybe they aren't covered by the ban.

/shrug

The fact remains that if guns are removed from the equation, people are still going to murder other people using knives, pillows, rope, rocks, falls from high paces, water, fists, high speed motor vehicles and a host of other implements.

Hell, these days if you *plan* to murder someone, it is probably best to use some very odd weapon to do it, so you can try to avoid the premeditation charges.

"Swamp Cooler"?

Guessing here: you keep some form of beverage on the window sill to keep it cold?

Yea schlitz.. Jesus it's an evaporative air conditioner. Eather you live in alaska and don't need one or your foriegn. now get this back on topic and flame my hunting rifle.

Oh, I have central air- we call the other kinds "Window hangers" where I grew up (New York)

What kind of rifle is that, anyhow? A BAR?

It's a Saiga .308 Russian of course. It's a Kalishnikov design(ak-47). They also come is .223 and 12 and 20 guage shotgun. Can you imagine a AK shotgun. HELL YEA! I'm just a shitty camera dude so my compsition sucks. I should have turned it around as well so you can really tell what it is.

Faust.
The size of the hole created by fragmentation is the diameter of the length of the bullet. So to put it in more visual terms, your pencil, If fired and fragemented would make a 4 inch hole.
And cmon.. what are you pointing out? Magazine instead of Clip? Fucking Semantics. Ok.. yes, im not a fucking gun expert. I know enough to avoid standing in front of the end with the hole in it. So I cant field strip a weapon in under 45 minutes? oooOOOoOO. Can you operate indoor plumbing? Point.. me.

And no I dont think only "rednecks" (besides Faust) want these weapons, but explain to me the reason?
How much is enough?
Lookit. When you go full fire (pressing the trigger as fast as you can, I think thats the term, if not Im sure Gunnery Sgt Faust will enlighten us all) the difference between a 9mm Semi Auto and a Semi Auto Assault Rifle is huge.
THERE IS NO PRACTICAL REASON TO OWN MILTARY STYLE WEAPONS. None, zero..
To use the Car Analogy. Can you drive a Formula One car to work? OF course not.

So answer me this. If the line isnt at the AR15.. where is it? What should private citizens be able to own and what should be restricted?
These are not toys. These are designed and engineered to kill people. Thats their only purpose. They will be used for what they were created for.

The bottom line is this. 15 in americans per 100000 WILL die every from guns. The majority of the people doing the killing shouldnt have had these guns. And the majority of the people doing the killing and getting killed are minorities or people from poorer backgrounds.
Assault rifles arent used in many crimes because of the simple fact that they are a pain in the ass to get for anyone. Many of them are outright banned. Unban them, make em cheap and affordable for everyone and you wont be making people any safer,

You WILL be creating more efficient killers.

>What should private citizens be able to own and what should be restricted?

alot of people are agreeing with you on this, there is a line that needs to be drawn, the topic of THIS thread is that gun companies are being held responsible for other people's actions

>These are not toys.

no, you're right, neither are cars, cars can be used to be more deadly then a single hand gun or rifle, should we ban them, or one per household, keeping the rich from being able to collect cars? or how about the people who like to buy and rebuild? or how about this, make it so when ever someone runs someone over we hold the car company accountable? after all they made it easy for anyone to own a car

>These are designed and engineered to kill people. Thats their only purpose. They will be used for what they were created for.

you are not one to be super vague, and this is a vague state ment, guns are used for alot of things, collection to just admire, marksmen, hunting, military, defense, and murder ... guns being used to kill does not mean they are engineered to kill people, guns are engineerd to shoot bullets, people kill people, not guns kill people

Seriously, if you're going to post an image keep it under 640x480 (http://www.bushmaster.com/CoverLady.jpg)

Carbon Fiber AR, 3.9 lbs. One can dream.

The majority of the people doing the killing shouldnt have had these guns.

Remember the North Hollywood Bank of America shootout? I was 2 blocks away when the firing started.

You can bet your sweet ass the fully automatic AK47s with 100+ round drum magazines were NOT sold legally or registered to the shooters. As I said the laws banning this stuff doesn't do shit. If you want it, its there. Just like drugs.

In my opinion the line is drawn at fully automatic, or semiautomatic weapons with high rates of fire. Give me an AR15 with some type of firing rate limiter and a 10 round mag, and I'll be happy all day at the range. Like you've said theres no reason to have an insane rate of fire, and huge capacity mag. I agree with this.

California bans anything that "looks like an assault rifile", which is why I don't own an AR15 from DPMS inc. These laws are created out of fear by people who piss themselves at the thought of "guns" and are looking for a scapegoat.

15/10,000 will die from guns. HOW MANY OF THOSE GUNS ARE LEGALLY PURCHASED AND REGISTERED?

Joe Jackass who shot up the 7/11 sure as fuck isn't going to use a firearm that he purchased and registered himself is he?

Back on the subject. If gun companies are responsible for what they sell. Then why not the tobacco companies? Why not Mc Donalds for creating an army of fat lazy fucks?

NO ONE IS RESPONSIBLE OR ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS ANYMORE. And shit like holding gun companies accountable for END USERS SHITTY DECISIONS is just going to drive the nail deeper.

In the end this is just one step closer to a total ban on firearms by the fucking pussies rapidly gaining ground in this nation. The good thing is, they can ban 'em all they want. Just like Marijuana, they will take about 5 minutes to get.

The size of the hole created by fragmentation is the diameter of the length of the bullet.

Which is not what you said. Here is what you said, verbatim: "will fragment on impact creating a hole in a human body that is equal to the [/i]length of the round in its diameter[/i]."

Maybe I should draw you some pictures. A bullet "length" doesn't have a "diameter", but the "width" does. Trying to patch togther your innacurate statement, seems that something was lost in the translation. My bad for trying to assemble your lack of basic math skills, english and/or a knowleged on the subject. It appears that my mistake here was thinking that you were quoting the retard as opposed to BEING the retard. Perhaps you could learn a bit from some "See Spot Run" level writing classes for getting your ideas across. We might also need to get you one of those red and blue ball things with plastic shapes you put in it...I'll check on eBay.

And cmon.. what are you pointing out? Magazine instead of Clip? Fucking Semantics.

Semantics in this situation matter, because I thought you were quoting some dipshit from that website. I was attempting to point out how this person was inept and uneducated on the subject, and therefore you might want to go somewhere else to learn the basics of firearms. Like I said, my apologies for thinking you were quoting a retard. Imagine how red my face became upon learning that was you!

Ok.. yes, im not a fucking gun expert.

No! Don't say that. Yes you are! You are! Really...OK, you're not, but don't beat yourself up about it.

I know enough to avoid standing in front of the end with the hole in it.

Even the greatest journey begins with a single step. I would have to say that you have chosen your first step wisely.

Can you operate indoor plumbing?

With the appropriate manuals I can!! "Look Ellie Mae, it's like magic. Push this here knob, no more turd!"

Point.. me.

Point you <a href="http://www.people.virginia.edu/~fke2d/firearms/" target=new>here</a> perhaps. (Although she misapplies "clip" and "magazine", a pet-peeve of mine if you hadn't noticed. Look, it even has a fluffy, happy kitty for you to snuggle with!)

And no I dont think only "rednecks" (besides Faust)

Thank you for the props.

want these weapons, but explain to me the reason?
How much is enough?

Now we're getting to something that entirely up to each person. Some feel the end of the world, New World Order, the Chinese, the UN, Black Helicopters, etc. are good reasons to be armed enough to take Haiti during a family reunion. Some (like me) shoot service rifle competitions, some are just collectors, some people (really scary anal folks) are precision reloaders that customize ammunition for accuracy for a specific rifle - measuring down to the ten-thousandths of an inch. Everyone that has one has their reason, obviously, or they wouldn't have the firearms in question.

As far as how much is enough, that's up to them. If someone wants to have 600 SKSs, and 50k rounds, and sit in a bunker waiting for the apocalypse - that's their business. I wouldn't do it, but they aren't hurting me. I see tricked-out sports cars that have 400 horsepower on the street, but I don't go running about saying "How much is enough" to these hobbyists. They have their reasons, and although I might not find their purpose in having a devicce that could be dangerous to the general public (especially if they are newer drivers) adequate to justify ME getting the same thing, it's not my place to tell them they should be banned - especially if they aren't harming me.

Lookit. When you go full fire...the difference between a 9mm Semi Auto and a Semi Auto Assault Rifle is huge.


Never heard that term myself, but that doesn't mean it isn't a valid term - at any rate, I see what you are saying. Yes, there is a tremendous difference between a 9mm and a rifle. (ie - rifle bullets will go through standard Kevlar body-armor without thinking twice, whereas a 9mm won't). PS - Semantic tip: Semi-Auto is an "option" on an assault rifle, as is full auto. A rifle that fires one round per trigger pull is semi-auto. One with a selector switch having a full-auto option is an assault-rifle.

THERE IS NO PRACTICAL REASON TO OWN MILTARY STYLE WEAPONS. None, zero..

I've listed just a few reasons above why people do own them. (Ex Post Facto though, so I won't berate you for not knowing them.) Practicality does not play into it. This may suprise you a bit, but what you consider practical, someone else may not and vice-versa. Using the car analogy, I cannot see having a car that can go 0-60 in 3.7 seconds - but there are folks out there who do, and they have their reasons. I don't know enough about traffic regulations, motor-vehicle laws and Formula-1 racers to answer your question, but I bet if someone wanted to dedicate the time, effort and money they could get one street-legal and drive it to work. Would I laugh at them? You bet, but it's not my place to say, "Hey! That is not practical, and because it's not practical and I don't see a good reason for it, I'm going to stop you from doing something that you enjoy and I don't even remotely understand."

So answer me this. If the line isnt at the AR15.. where is it? What should private citizens be able to own and what should be restricted?

Personally? I think that someone that wants a .50 cal, semi-auto should be able (meeting current standards for basic firearms ownership) to own one. Full-auto? Grenade launching devices? Able to put 8oz projectiles 8,000 feet up at 60 cycles per second? I'd prefer they talk to the ATF first for a little bit more coverage. Guns that look like their military counterparts, but without the full-auto (which would make it an "assault rifle") option? Knock yourself out. Closer to the truth, I think it should be handled at a state level, NOT federal, but that's a discussion for another time.

The bottom line is this. 15 in americans per 100000 WILL die every from guns.

1- I would like to see where you got this data.
2- How does that compare with automobile accidents? Cancer? Murder with other objects? Drowning? Sports? Everyone's always concerned with how many people die from guns, but you never see the anti-swimming pool league trying to push their agenda.

The majority of the people doing the killing shouldnt have had these guns.

I agree. There should be a law against killing people! Oh, wait... Well, there should be a law against criminals having...no, nevermind that. Uhhh, let's take them all away like they have in Washington, DC!! Hrmmm, no, scratch that. Let's make laws against guns like we did for drugs! Ban them all! It worked so well to stop dru...ahh, shit, forget it.

And the majority of the people doing the killing and getting killed are minorities or people from poorer backgrounds.

OK, allow me to shock you a second. Who the fuck CARES who it is getting killed? Is there an income level where people are OK to lose?

A: "Oh, he made under $26,000.00 a year and was murdered!
B: "What a tragedy!"
A: "Then there was this other guy that made $108,000.00 a year and was shot and killed."
B: "Yeah, fuck him"
A: "He was black though!"
B: "TRAGEDY!"

Perhaps we should really buck the PC "no-no conversation" convention and look at numbers for the criminal activity you're talking about. How many are criminal against criminal? How many were legally owned weapons? How many were during the commission of a crime? What do you want to do about it? If I could wave my magic wand and it all suddenly got better, I'd sure do it in a heart-beat. I must have left it in my other jeans, so I can't fix it. You can't either. I can tell you that making the type of guns you're speaking of (which you readily admit are seldom used in the crimes you are talking about) won't fix the problem. Cranky Jim down the street sleeps better at night with his arsenal at the ready - I fail to see how removing that will effect the crime you're talking about.

Assault rifles arent used in many crimes because of the simple fact that they are a pain in the ass to get for anyone.

You mean real assault rifles, or your "assault rifles" (that have semi-auto function, no full-auto option, shoot center-fire cartridges, and look weally, weally scawy)? Providing I had the cash (which is tough, because I'm one of those "po' folks" you're so worried about), I could go legally get one inside of 20 minutes. This system has been in place here in Idaho for a long time, and I'd love to see the per-capita total "assault weapons" owned to crimes committed with "assault rifles" ratio. Then just a plain guns owned to crimes committed with guns ratio. I'd then LOOOOOVE to see that same per-capita comparison between, let's say, Wyoming and DC.

So, they aren't a pain in the ass to get...which kinda screw up your "simple fact" a bit, doesn't it? I think it's a logistical problem of concealment, but that's just a theory.

This is Gunny Faust saying, "As you were, LL..."

shoot center-fire cartridges, and look weally, weally scawy

I cracked up on that one! Good post Faust.

Ban all guns, Let the criminals sort it out later.

I agree with Marz. Here in Canada, most guns are forbidden and its still pretty easy to get a 9mm handgun for less than 100$. Most guns bought legally wont kill people, since it would be easy to find out who fired it.

Impresario Almadar Tegleftyln
Retired

www.lewrockwell.com/watson/watson12.html (http://www.lewrockwell.com/watson/watson12.html)

www.kc3.com/editorial/gun_control_works.htm (http://www.kc3.com/editorial/gun_control_works.htm)


www.davekopel.org/2A/Mags/WillYouBeSafer.htm (http://www.davekopel.org/2A/Mags/WillYouBeSafer.htm)

And on and on and on..Banning guns does not work..PERIOD.

Thats not even the debate here..the real issue is accountability. It won't stop with guns, you can damn sure bet your money on that.

People that legally buy and register their guns aren't the ones commiting crimes. No matter how many gun bans they pass it won't help. All they do is take protection away from honest,law-abiding citizens.

Nobody is saying Ban all guns here.

But you dont think some reasonable limits to the amount of firepower a person could have is a good idea?
Nobody here has given 1 good reason why having a AR15 ir AK47 is a good idea.

The right to bear arms comes from our founding fathers hope that we would never need a large standing army. They wanted people to have guns so they could be part of a civil defense militia called when the nation was at risk.
Times changed.

Oh ive been to Idaho, the spawling metropolis of Boise to be exact, and it explains alot there Faust.
The #1 source of local entertainment is to go to the Boise State Football stadium and sit in the stands and watch all the passing birds mistake the blue astroturf field for a lake and swoop in and break their necks, to much applause of the yokels.
And when driving down main street you cant help but notice that most of the buildings facades dont face the street, its like some wizard of Oz twister randomly spun them all akimbo. From your sense of humor, I can guess you must be on the Planning and Zoning Comittee.
Nice Mountains though.
But Ill throw ya a bone, if people in Idaho want automatic weapons cool, go ahead, 2 people standing together is a crowd anyway, youd have to drive and around and make several stops to commit a mass murder. So Fire away Cleetus!

Any Boise folks want to meet at Bronco Stadium later for a good ole time? Ill bring a case of Bud Ice.

KZ

Can't tonight KZ, I think they're using the field for a cattle-auction and square dance. Just come o'er here to the Compound and we'll gets us some of grandpappy's moonshine and drink it from mason jars. Besides, I'll need to drink heavily tonight, that dad-gummed LL hurted my feelers... :/

Quiz time

Which is more powerful?

.300 weatherbee?
http://www.weatherby.com/images/products/b_rifles/rfl_gifs/mag_sbgm.gif


OR!

This AR-15 "ATF" model?
http://gunworx.co.uk/images/Colt_ATF.jpg

*raises hand* OH! OH! PICK ME PICK ME!!!

I'm not allowed to answer this, am I? :(

i want that colt...

hmmmm reckin boy like me not ought drink such moonshine hmmmm

KZ

I think it's a logistical problem of concealment, but that's just a theory

There is no doubt that handguns are much easier to conceal than a rifle or shotgun.

In NY, the laws regarding ownership of handguns differ wildly from county to county. Some counties have more relaxed handgun ownership requirements, others have such tight restrictions that if your job doesn't require you to carry a pistol, odds are good you won't get a permit to own one- no matter what the regulations say. Still others have even more restrictions- in New York City, not only can't most people own a pistol, you can't even buy *ammunition* for a handgun within a certain distance of New York City (I think it is 25 miles).

Which is more powerful?
.300 weatherbee?

Depends on how you define "powerful". There is no doubt the Weatherbee's ammunition packs more punch per round than the AR-15. However, a repeating rifle of any type would own the Weatherbee in close combat, where point-and-shoot > aiming. The short model of the AR-15 you show seems to be very well suited for close in combat, much like an Uzi or Mac-10.

Nobody here has given 1 good reason why having a AR15 ir AK47 is a good idea.

Any stats on the number of crimes committed with this particular weapon?

I have no good reason for owing the damn ramakins (sp?) we got for a wedding present. But I freaking have 'em, and the wife won't let me throw them out. I could really clock someone with those things.

A 7.62 round (AR15) isint made to kill, only wound. the energy is wasted because it will go through a person with hardly any loss of velocity.

A .300 on the other hand will tear a person in half because the energy is completly dissipated into the body.

Ar-15s are commonly 5.56 mm

And the way the energy is dissapated through the body has less to do with the measurement of the round and more to do with the design of the round itself- A full metal jacket round will usually impart less of its energy than a hollow point or nosler round.

(edit) fixed a spelling error.

Trying to suggest something about the duality of man there, Pvt. Joker?Thank you Faust, it's the little things that make my day.

I bought the girlfriend a "starter" pistol the other day (no, not one to start track-and-field meets -- one to get her "involved" in shooting). A little Phoenix Arms .22LR.

She always felt my 23C was too big for her.

While at the gun show this weekend, you'll all be pleased to know that the transaction for my friend's new AR-15 was:

Him: "That one please."
Them: "$800 and ID please."
Him: "Here you go."
Them: "There you go, thanks for shopping with us."

Admittedly, he got a 10% discount for his military ID, and skipped the background check because he had his CCW, but my conversation for my girlfriend's little purse gun was quite the same -- except it took 5 minutes to verify I wasn't a felon after I filled out my single-page paperwork.

For lunch tomorrow, me and a couple of workmates are going to the range.

Lucky Palimax!

Shooting report: My new .22 is fun, and the laser on my .40 needs adjusted. It threw me off :(

personally, my favorite gun to shoot is my .22, then the next one is my 30-0-6

got a gun, fact i got two
that's ok man, cuz i love god
glorified version of a pellet gun
feels so manly, when armed
glorified version of a pellet gun
glorified version of a pellet gun
glorified version of a pellet gun
glorified version of a pellet gun
don't think, dumb is strength
never shot at a living thing
glorified version of a pellet gun
feels so manly, when armed
glorified version of a pellet gun
glorified version of a pellet gun
glorified version of a pellet gun
glorified version of a...
always keep it loaded
always keep it loaded
always keep it loaded
kindred to be an american...
life comes...i can feel your heart...
life comes...i can feel your heart through your neck...
life comes...i can feel your heart through your neck...
like some...i can steal your heart from your neck...
glorified...glorified...

That was beautiful, LL.

My cousins were wondering...can you play that song on a banjo, do you look like Ned Beatty, and can you squeal like a pig? (I never can tell what the kinfolk mean by some of the things they say, but asked if I could ask you in my "magical typin' TV", so I rekkin' I'd oblige.)

Faust, only since you brought it up...
Pogue Colonel: Marine, what is that button on your body armor?
Private Joker: A peace symbol, sir.
Pogue Colonel: Where'd you get it?
Private Joker: I don't remember, sir.
Pogue Colonel: What is that you've got written on your helmet?
Private Joker: "Born to Kill," sir.
Pogue Colonel: You write "Born to Kill" on your helmet and you wear a peace button. What's that supposed to be, some kind of sick joke?
Private Joker: No, sir.
Pogue Colonel: You'd better get your head and your ass wired together, or I will take a giant shit on you.
Private Joker: Yes, sir.
Pogue Colonel: Now answer my question or you'll be standing tall before the man.
Private Joker: I think I was trying to suggest something about the duality of man, sir.
Pogue Colonel: The what?
Private Joker: The duality of man. The Jungian thing, sir.
Pogue Colonel: Whose side are you on, son?
Private Joker: Our side, sir.
Pogue Colonel: Don't you love your country?
Private Joker: Yes, sir.
Pogue Colonel: Then how about getting with the program? Why don't you jump on the team and come on in for the big win?
Private Joker: Yes, sir.
Pogue Colonel: Son, all I've ever asked of my marines is that they obey my orders as they would the word of God. We are here to help the Vietnamese, because inside every gook there is an American trying to get out. It's a hardball world, son. We've gotta keep our heads until this peace craze blows over.
Private Joker: Aye-aye, sir.

Faust, Faust...
Well you need to first understand the exact type, genus and phylum or Redneck you are.

You type like a southern redneck from around the Florida/Georgia area. Qui habet aures audiendi audiat. But since the nuances of speech are tough to express in a written form, perhaps a more visual representation is in order.
Your typing suggests
http://www.cnn.com/US/9708/03/redneck.games/redneck.games.jpg

Thats wrong. Geographically, you should be more of this guy
http://www.nationofodd.com/images/features/mission_propganda/redneck.jpg

although the fact that you type and simply dont smash your forehead against the keyboard in a primal attempt to express your inner rage should make me at least a little happy.
You must be like the King of Idaho. Dozens swarm your goat drawn bobsled as it pulls you down main street, thru the exact replica of the Arc de Triomphe, except constructed entirelly out of Budweiser Cans, joyfully tossing Potatoes. Your Reynolds Wrap crown doubling as a barrier to keep the FBI from reading your thoughts. You wave to the throng, the collective smiles accounting for about 18 teeth total.

Yes life must be good as the smartest man in Idaho.

Thank you, Palimax. Please remember the only two types of folks named Lawrence.



LL,


All I can say about you post is:








<font size = 30><font color = red>WHERE THE FUCK HE GET THEM FLAMIN' BEER CANS FROM!?</font></font>

(Your confusion is appropriate...I spent several formative years in north Florida close to south Alabama, was born here, yet did some "big city" time, and also had a few years to pick up an accent in Europe - but all that added up to create the conundrum that you see before you: Yes, I AM the smartest man in Idaho. At least SOMEONE fucking recognizes what I've been claiming for so long.)

Good day all, off to earn my keep drivin' tractor, punchin' cattle, fixin' transmissions and sewing repairs to various NASCAR hats.

That's you who made all my Dale Earnhardt hats?

http://www.daleearnhardt.net/history/2001/dale5.gif

That is a bad ass flame thrower !!!!
I want the instructions.

You forgot " Cow Tippin'"