news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3585765.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3585765.stm)

How can this kind of hatred be confronted?
Having only just found out about this, I feel sick.
I feel really sick.

And these are the people we went over there to liberate from Sadaam? :( We should have just stayed out of the middle east all together.

Shit like this happens in every war (or it's aftermath). You confront it by helping those who want help and isolate the others until they see what they are doing to themselves.

The ones who did this are afraid the US is going to hand control over Iraq to the Shia's. Maybe we should. It would serve them right.

How can this kind of hatred be confronted?

That's the question we're all considering right now.

I mean, the rest of the world thinks America is one heckuva righteous arrogant country. But am I really supposed to sit here and think I'm NOT better than these people?

And of course, for all we know, this is not spontaneous, but just another planned event to make us want to pull out of Iraq.

They keep saying the closer we get to handing Iraq over (to who ever that is) expect more attacks like this. The Suni Triangle is the worst place in Iraq..its well known fact. Sounds like a horrible place but you can bet the military is planning a series of attacks on that city for what has happened. Will it do any good is another topic.

'But am I really supposed to sit here and think I'm NOT better than these people?'

- I'm turning in to a pussy as I say this, but don't turn this in to THAT kinda thread.
You can easily judge others when you sit on your throne from halfway across the world. It's very easy. And no I'm not taking sides you pillock.

But I don't understand how, when power is "given" back to the Iraqi people.. the country will sustain itself. It's a cess-pool of hostility and brutality right now. Even more than before? Perhaps. The country, as well as turning on everyone else, has turned in on itself. And now every terrorist organization around the world is jumping in on the "fun".
Will it be 50 years of this? 100? Will it stop?
Will we now be in it for the "long run"?

I hear what you're saying, Halo. I guess my point is - what do the people doing this expect the AMerican public to feel?

I mean, yeah, it's possible to scare the government into action through CNN . But am I supposed to be scared? I guess I feel kind of righteous right now. It sort of intensifies the feeling I've had since the Iraqi invasion started - maybe it's up to us to show the people of the MidEast what a real government - one that provides freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and the pursuit of opportunity and happiness, can be like.

And then I ask myself - do they deserve it?

In the immortal words of The Clash.

darling, you gotta let me know
should I stay or should I go?
If you say that you are mine
I'll be there till the end of time
So you gotta let me know
Should I stay or should I go?

I'll always tease,tease,tease
you're happy when I'm on my knees
one day is fine and the next is black
so if you want me off your back
well, come on and let me know
should I stay or should I go?

chorus:
Should I stay or should i go now?
Should I stay or should i go now?
if I go there will be trouble
and if I stay it will be double
so come on and let me know

How can this kind of hatred be confronted?

In short, it can't be confronted. Hopefully, we will find some of the perpetrators swiftly and they won't be around anymore to repeat this.

The larger battle against the hatred will take a long time to sort out. Generations. The hatred is part racial, part nationalistic, and part religious. It's taken a long time for race relations in this country, and we still have a ways to go. The battle against the hatred is going to be won rebuilding the country and proving we aren't a threat. And people on both sides are going to die along the way.

We should have just stayed out of the middle east all together.

I disagree. I may not have agreed with the pre- or post-war planning, but I think removing Sadam is one of the best things this country has done in a long time. We should have never believed it was going to be easy.

Re-read the last line of that article. That's why we are there.

In the immortal words of The Clash/

I prefer this selection from The Clash:

Now the king told the boogie men
You have to let that raga drop
The oil down the desert way
Has been shakin’ to the top
The sheik he drove his cadillac
He went a’ cruisnin’ down the ville
The muezzin was a’ standing
On the radiator grille

Chorus
The shareef don’t like it
Rockin’ the casbah
Rock the casbah
The shareef don’t like it
Rockin’ the casbah
Rock the casbah

By order of the prophet
We ban that boogie sound
Degenerate the faithful
With that crazy casbah sound
But the bedouin they brought out
The electric camel drum
The local guitar picker
Got his guitar picking thumb
As soon as the shareef
Had cleared the square
They began to wail

Chorus

Now over at the temple
Oh! they really pack ’em in
The in crowd say it’s cool
To dig this chanting thing
But as the wind changed direction
The temple band took five
The crowd caught a wiff
Of that crazy casbah jive

Chorus

The king called up his jet fighters
He said you better earn your pay
Drop your bombs between the minarets
Down the casbah way

As soon as the shareef was
Chauffeured outta there
The jet pilots tuned to
The cockpit radio blare

As soon as the shareef was
Outta their hair
The jet pilots wailed

Chorus

He thinks it’s not kosher
Fundamentally he can’t take it.
You know he really hates it.

The human capacity for cruelty and hate is truly astounding...

The mob that did this can not be considered to be representive of their home city, much less of their country.

And their home city isn't representive of the country, either. It's one of the few cities where Saddam still have any support.

And finally, in the eyes of the mob, those four contractors most likely did NOT prepresent democracy or westerners/americans in general. More likely, they represented american contractors - a group that many iraqi consider to be war profiteers.

Hmm, I think I'll start a new thread about how the rebuilding is handled.

Its a real problem.
We CANT leave. We have a moral responsibility to Iraq now. No matter how bad it gets, we have to stay.
Is Iraq going to be ready for a handoff in a few months? Probably not... but its politically expediant for Bush. I dont really trust the UN, they havent gotten anything right in about 20 years or so. But its a public relations tool, one we grossly mismanaged.
While the US will hand off control to a Government of sone sort... we should modify what its going to be like.
here is what I think.
1. At least 4 permanent and Major military bases in Iraq, strategically placed to be a presence in all areas.
2. US maintains control of the "Sunni Triangle".. While we would work closely with the Iraq government and they would control and police the rest of Iraq.. US troops will stay in place and work to tame this area and root out insurgency.
3. Most Favored Nation status, and HUGE tax incentives for American businesses to work in and with the Iraqi economy. The bottom line is Iraq is all about JOBS... its the economy stupid.
4. WIN THE WAR OF IDEAS.. get the message out.. show Americas best side as often as possible. Ensure that Democracy is embraced and works.

It is CRUCIAL that Iraq is Free, Prosperous, Democratic and Safe/Stable.
It has a upside that is so huge that it is only matched by its gigantic downside.
/e rolls the dice.

Iraq free, democracy. There is a party american-friendly, Israel-neutral (similiar to egypt), and there will be one opposing any foreign pressence, and Israel-hater.

On a democratic election which you think will win 50%+1 vote?

I strongly agree LL.
There is a moral obligation to Iraq now. When will it end? We could possibly be there for years to come. There's been 600 deaths in the space of a year. Are we going to see 2000? 5000? Will there be 10,000?!
No, I'm not moaning per usual. I'm saying that in spite of that highly likely figure, we can never turn back.
We went in, against the wishes of the majority. We fucked the place up, so now we HAVE to stay. There is no choice.
But what if xxx terrorist comes in to the limelight again? What if Osama begins operating out of.. uhh.. Syria? What if there are magical WoMD in Syria? Do we leave Iraq quicker than Afghanistan? To rot and decay? To be overwhelmed in ruin?
To assume power is handed to the Iraqi's for them to control their own country is.. well.. foolish. There will have to be a coalition presence there for long years to come. Mediation and intervention on every level.

I stand by my opinions that it was wrong to go there. It was wrong. The idea - whether conjured or truly misguided - that the regime had WoMD and Al-Qaede ties were fruitless. It was a "damn, we let Osama slip, let's quickly invade someone else we hate to justify the blood lust". But we're in, we ousted a fat fuck head, and now we're "rebuilding", I guess.

We have a moral obligation. One that will last years, I've no doubt. And one I guess will see more mutilated Western bodies.
Yeah I've spent months, and the lesser part of years, complaining about the action in Iraq. But I'm coming round to the idea that it can be rebuilt for the better. I'm building some trust in the effort. And the recent Somalia v2.0 has only surged that feeling. If Saddam loyalists act like this - it can only mean we're doing the right thing down there.

The question is, will it become another Afghanistan? Leave a country to build itself in the wake of destruction? Or another Somalia? Will we bail out if it becomes seemingly useless?

I hear what you're saying, Halo. I guess my point is - what do the people doing this expect the AMerican public to feel?

You mean, you didn't expect it?

Bombard a country with tonnes of explosives, invade, take over, and you didn't expect resentment, rebellion and deaths by the bushel?

The USA decided that dismantling and rebuilding Iraq was the thing to do. There are prices for decisions. The deaths of your young, the deaths of your workers, the deaths of innocents are part of that price. If the USA didn't want to pay the reaper, America should never have started the war.

I mean, yeah, it's possible to scare the government into action through CNN . But am I supposed to be scared? I guess I feel kind of righteous right now. It sort of intensifies the feeling I've had since the Iraqi invasion started - maybe it's up to us to show the people of the MidEast what a real government - one that provides freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and the pursuit of opportunity and happiness, can be like.

Well, duh. The problem is, the USA hasn't been a perfect example.

Backing dictators, dismantling elected governments, invading other nations, ignoring international opinion, threatening with nuclear weapons, requiring imbalanced trade agreements... While the USA is a basically good nation, it isn't all that hard to make the case that the USA manipulates the political situation outside of its own borders for its own benefit only.

If you disagree with the ethics enthroned in the American Constitution and the American Way Of Life, and you think that America meddles in your affairs like a bully, you will not hold America up as a shining beacon of freedom.

And, god damn it, America should be a shining beacon of freedom. But, everytime America plays realpolitics at the UN, every time America backs a military dictator, every time America kills innocents in yet another war, that beacon becomes dimmer.

Those people in Iraq, they haven't walked down mainstreet, anytown, USA. They don't know America as a beacon of freedom. All they know of America is sex on the TV and radio (which they dispise), contractors with fists full of money, tourists who never learn local customs, tanks, guns and bombs.

Thanks for the speech. What they think of America really doesn't have much to do with the morality of this particular action.

Thanks for the speech. What they think of America really doesn't have much to do with the morality of this particular action.

"This particular action" was a fucking shame done by evil psychopaths.

I was simply responding to your post, which also had nothing to do with the morality of this particular action. I'll try to make the fact I was responding to the pontification in your post clearer next time.

And, you are welcome.

Sick. Just plain sick.

Halo, Somalia version 2 would require a fuckup Clinton clone(like Kerry) to withdraw from Iraq completely making these and all of the other lives lost completely pointless.

Well. I liked Black Hawn Down... might as well have a fuckin' sequel.

Falujja is now being "Pacified". I hope they kill allot of the "extremists" and "terrorists". It would make things a hole lot nicer for the peace loving people that also inhabit the city.

I'm heartsick and soul weary for our Troops serving in this cesspool.

But Halo and L2 are right in the regards to our responsibilities.

We have to rebuild Iraq, we have to show them the silver lining and allow them to push past the Islamic extremists that wish to control their very souls.

Fandros

I hope they kill allot of the "extremists" and "terrorists".

The problem with that is you make martyrs out of the extremists and it would only fuel their cause more. You are in essence exchanging one evil for another.

"Extremists should be taken out and shot."

Iraq isnt Somali.
Iraq isnt Vietnam.

But its rapidly starting to resemble Afganistan for the Russians.
Remember.. What was the birth place of Al_-Queda and the jihadist movement? Afganistan. Fighters from all around the Arab world came and fought with the Muhajadeen.
The russians let it become a Relgious issue for the Muslims.

Bottom line is the Iraqi people are humilated. They were defeated as soundly and as quickly as any nation ever. What their clerics are telling them is "Saddam could not defeat the Americans, But Allah can." This message resonates with them. Many are STILL jobless, also a HUGE contributing factor.
Another ingrediant is remember who is orchestrating ALOT of this.. Al-Queda members. People who cut their teeth fighting this exact type of war in Afganistan.

Arresting this cleric is going to make it REALLY ugly.. but tis gonna get alot worse before it gets better. We as a people have to be strong enough to understand that retreat is not an option..
Remember to thank your President.

Perhaps building a glass factory for them to work in? Would that not be sufficient to get jobs. They are in the desert right? Sand is plentiful. Or the US could just turn Fallujah into a glass sheet.

Bottom line is the Iraqi people are humilated. They were defeated as soundly and as quickly as any nation ever. What their clerics are telling them is "Saddam could not defeat the Americans, But Allah can." This message resonates with them.

LL speaks with the authority of all the clerics in Iraq. He knows the score and what each and every person there thinks. Praise be to Allah.

Dont be dumb Faust.
This isnt a few dozen here or there, this is thousands, every other day. In almost every area of the country. One Mosque does not fit 10,000 people. So a few thousand people chanting the same things day after day, and carrying the same message might give you a clue as to what MANY of the Iraqi religious leaders are telling people?
What are they chanting?
"Fallujah will be Americas Graveyard"
"We will repeat the 1920 Revolution"
blah blah blah..

these people are being told they can win, they are repeating lies in their chants.
They WANT this to become a religious war.

They want a Jihad? Give em one.

Ranei

Yeah, you're absolutely right! Not a day goes by that I don't see the Kurds out there stringing up American contractors to bridges.

Just like I saw on the news a Gay pride parade, and there were NAMBLA members there getting a lot of camera time. Using your logic, that means that all gay people are pederasts, right?

Secondhand knowledge, from folks that just got back - the picture you're painting (and I'm sure it's not by design, but media-induced ignorance) is not the case.

'They want a Jihad? Give em one.'

- Remove head from arse, then speak.

Or, we could do as you would like Halo. We could pacify ole Bin-L, tell him we're sorry for being ugly to him. Then put ole Saddam H. back in power and ask him not to be mad at us.

Tell me mister enlightened one, what exactly are we to do to further this eutopia you dream about at night and post about all day the next day?

Ranei

What their clerics are telling them

Read. Learn. The things various clerics tell them is a lot more complicated than this.

'Tell me mister enlightened one, what exactly are we to do to further this eutopia you dream about at night and post about all day the next day?'

- Hold on, YOU are giving me a lecture?
YOU, the guy who WANTS a violent jihad?
"Oohh if they want a jihad, let's give 'em one! oohh!"

Please, don't even address me. You worthless cretin.

As understand it...which is by no means complete, there are basically three factions or groups inciting violence in Iraq:

1. al Qaeda infiltrators - these are the guys, mostly foriegners to Iraq that are most responsible for suicide attacks, car bombs and other more 'random' attacks. Their goal has been since day 1, to poison any positive relations between the Iraqi people and the US. Keeping the quality of life down, keeping the general populace unhappy. They have suceeded to this point, see 2. & 3.

2. Conivinced that they will not be represented by any government the US installs, Suni moslems and supporters on the former regime have increased their attacks aimed at killing any occupying force or people connected with that force. This violence has come to a head in Fallujah. It's disturbing but not as disturbing as the third faction/group.

3. Urged by their leader anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr thousands of radical Shiite Moslems, mostly younger Iraqis are stepping up attacks on American Forces. al-Sadr wnats no part of America or it's installed government. He has tens of thousands of supporters and his own privately formed militia to carry out his will. This is the most disturbing faction to me. Take a hard/violent stand against him, i.e. arrest him, whatever and this could mushroom into a full scale civil war. Their doesn't seem to be a diplomatic solution atm as he would want a religious-based Shiite controlled government.

I hear many say that to pull out now is wrong, and I agree. It would be a waste of all who have died, Coalitition and Iraqis...and we need to follow through with our best effort to improve life for the Iraqi people. But, I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that their sacrifice may be in vain no matter what. I still have a little hope of a stable, democratic Iraq....but it's fading fast. :(

Arresting Sadar is probably the best thing we can do at the moment. The problem is he is wildly popular, son of a matyr that was killed by Sadam. Mirdorr is right, it isn't simple.

Trying to institute the rule of law isn't easy, but allowing this guy to continually incite violence ( an obvious crime, our freedom of speech doesn't include this ) is not helping.

The problem is getting to him. And it is a gamble. One would hope that without him leading, his movement would lose some power, which may or may not happen. Making him a matyr in the process is what we have to avoid most of all.

Fil

I never understand why people assume the fall of leaders concludes to the end of their following.
Surely we can see this with Saddam Hussien. Things have, arguably, only become worse since he was captured (whatever became of him, anyway?).
Zoom over to Israel, and the wheel-chair bound spiritual leader was assasinated with missles from a gunship. Has Hamas ceased to be?

Newp. These followings merely grow, if anything.

So what hopes can you achieve from arresting this guy?
Yep, he had a newspaper which encouraged violence against the coalition, but it only sold to a small portion of people, merely 10, 000. Which, in the grand scheme of troubles and conflicts, is nothing. But now we've only gone and opened up another war-front in Iraq, as if there weren't enough. People will rally to this guy's support (weren't 7 coalition troops killed due to this over the weekend?), and god knows how much his following will grow if he's killed or captured.

The date to hand over power to Iraq is looking awfully mad right now.
It will have to depend utterly upon coalition forces and, like the police force, will become increasingly unpopular for it.

Again and again and again. You put down everything that's being done and ideas people put forth.

propose something.

Poor Halo. How am I lecturing you? I merely asked you to propose the solution to the problem, and you insult me. You have no solution. You have no answers. Armchair quarterback, backseat driver, those are the names you go by. You criticize and criticize and offer no functional solutions.

I dont want a Jihad you silly thing. BUT, if some group of Iraqis want one, give it to em.

Ranei

'I dont want a Jihad you silly thing. BUT, if some group of Iraqis want one, give it to em.'

- The population of those who know the definition of the word "contradiction" is dwindling by the day.
What, are you all attending Dubya's School for the Simple?

Don't ask me for a solution while egging on jihads, you fucking invalid.

Halo, it appears that you're obsessed with pointing out what you perceive to be educational weaknesses instead of just answering questions that have been presented.

I said that I'm not wanting a Jihad, but if they want one we can give them one.

Thats like saying..."I don't want to get into a fight today, but if someone walks up and hits me on the nose, I'll hit em back".

I know you'll not see the jump in logic in those two statements and instead choose to belittle my grammar or geographical location.

I beg of you though. Answer. What, exactly, does that crystal ball of yours say is the absolute solution to these problems?

Ranei

I'm being a Good Boy today.

'I said that I'm not wanting a Jihad, but if they want one we can give them one.'

- Uhm, no. What you said was exactly this: "'They want a Jihad? Give em one."
That to me hardly says "I don't want a jihad! But if they hit me on the nose, I'll give 'em one!" It's a lot more like "If they want a fight, we'll give 'em one!" ie Let's kick arse!
Well yes - they want a fight. They always have done.
But let's not spend the next five pages interpreting something you seem to be changing. Even I'm not that bored.

'Again and again and again. You put down everything that's being done and ideas people put forth.
propose something. '

- Well it's extremely hard to propose ideas for a situation you are firmly against. We shouldn't be in Iraq, that's my point. So you saying "Well you come up with an idea!" is like asking me what I'd do in a situation I wouldn't put myself in.
But how about not creating several Nazi style fronts so close to the "handing over of power"? Seems pretty stupid, don't you think? At this time the coalition needed to stabalize security and concentrate on the up-coming June date. There's several key places of resistance, despite occupation, which needed to be appeased, not hunted and controlled. Spreading soldiers a bit thin, surely? 1800 being sent off to Falalalgughjguua. I'm sure I heard on the news that, despite all plans, reinforcements will have to be sent to Iraq.
I just think, with the added toll of a myriad of other problems, opening up an unnecessary - yes, unnecessary - hostile front was the last ideal move to make right now.
Now [Enter Swear Word and Insult Here] off.

Faust.
this guy that is being arrested has a following that is estimated at 25% of the Shia. Its more than one guy.
Is it EVERYONE.. no. Of course not. Id say that even the 25% that follow this guy, only a small portion are fanatical. But even that.. it could be a couple hundred thousand people. And its not just one Cleric saying it.
But whats your point? Do you even have one? Or have you taken a class at the Halo School of debate and just look for areas to inject semi witty statements loosely connected with an incoherant point of view.

' Or have you taken a class at the Halo School of debate and just look for areas to inject semi witty statements loosely connected with an incoherant point of view. '

- Hey. Fuck you.

Class dismissed?

Class detention more like.
Bloody colonials.

The point is, making broad statements of "LOOK AT WUT ALL TEH IRAIQ H8 U" is not only reactionary (as if we could expect less), but incorrect and based in a level of ignorance that approaches single-celled organism.

So take the "everyone" number and reduce it a bit to "the Shia" and then reduce that to an estimated QUARTER of the Shia (that was a part of the "everyone"), and now it's probably only the fanatic part of the quarter of the Shia that is a part of the population. So, let's look at the numbers:

24.6 mill (That's your "everyone")

About 75%-80% are Arab. I'm excluding the Kurds for the obvious reasons. (If I have to explain that, get an enema and see if you think better.)

That's 19.7mil (I'm rounding up, and giving you the high-end of the percentage curve...because I'm nice like that), of which 97% are Muslim (600k have better things to do), so we'll say that's 19 million folks...BUT, only 60%-65% of those are Shia (using 62.5%)...11.4 million.

Minus the more than half that are women - Allah knows they aren't allowed to be out doing anything but washing their Burqua (sp?) and breast-feeding the kids. 5.7 million, 60% of which are in the "out and about showing the love of Islam" age-range, and you're down to 3.42 million.

You say that 25% of the Shia follow him (Which I don't buy for a minute, maybe you could show me where that's at in order to help us get a better picture...you can do that right, you're not just guessing here, are you?) meaning, by your "solid...uhhh, guess" we're at 855,000.

A small percentage of them being "radicals", and let's say it's 7.85%, for a nice round number making for 67,117.5 (The half a person found the business end of a land-mine, I'm assuming...) which is not a number to be scoffed at.

67,117.5/24,600,000 = 00.2728% of the population is horribly upset to the point of following this cleric to death, hell and their 72 year-old virgin. (Someone check my math and stats...I took it once, like 13 years ago or something and didn't pay attention. I'm sure this is off by a "smidge" one way or another.)

Call me crazy, but I think that hardly qualifies as "everyone", a "majority" or even a "large part" of. Have fun waving your flagellum though!

I just felt the initial statement I made was a much easier way to say all that.

<font size = -3>Taught by Professor Wayfarer at the Halo School of Debate.</font>

Hugz&Kissez,

i say find the places with the rallies, say "in 30 minutes we will nuetralize all the terrorists...anyone who is a civilian should evacuate the area", in about 10 minutes they should carpet bomb the area...

is my view a bad one? possibly but nothing else seems to work well...heh:\

No.. I dont invent things.
www.cfr.org/background/ba...alsadr.php (http://www.cfr.org/background/background_iraq_alsadr.php)
What is his base of support?
Young, impoverished Iraqi Shiites, many of whom are concentrated in Sadr City, a vast slum of 2 million previously called Saddam City and renamed for the senior Sadr after Saddam’s fall. One reason for his popularity: his aggressively anti-U.S. pronouncements tap a vein of frustration among Shiites in a way that Sistani’s more moderate stance does not. Sadr’s followers have been making a play for support in Basra and other Iraqi Shiite towns. Sadr, like Sistani and the Shiite hierarchy, is based in Najaf, a city holy to Shiites because it contains the tomb of Ali ibn Abi Talib, the Prophet Mohammed’s cousin and son-in-law and the top leader, or caliph, of Islam in the 7th century.
How much support does Sadr have?
It’s not clear. Some experts estimate Sadr has a few thousand fanatical supporters—largely those in the Imam Mehdi army—willing to take up arms on his behalf. Coalition officials estimate that Sadr’s hardcore supporters range between 300 and 3,000 men, says Drew Brown, a Knight Ridder correspondent in Baghdad reporting on the issue. “It’s a fringe movement, certainly, but anyway you look at it, I think that the numbers alone constitute a threat to public order,” Brown says. In addition, some experts say that there are hundreds of thousands of additional Iraqis who are “passive” Sadr supporters. They owe Sadr some allegiance out of respect for his lineage and because of the services his social network provides, but, until recently, were not willing to stand up to the Americans on his behalf. But as anger at the occupation has grown among Shiites, experts say, so have the number of committed Sadr followers.

So you see.. is the WHOLE bunch of em radical? NO.. but you can the population he is trying to consolidate.
I never said EVERYONE in Iraq felt like this.. Of course not. But there is strong Shia anti-american, pro-Iran, fundamentalist movement that has engaged the US in what is huge gamble for both sides. Either he continues to grab power and that tacit support for him cements or he goes down in humilation to the US.

If you dont see the risks in this situation, you really arent paying attention.
And remember kids.. we hand off control in... 90 days and counting.

'Taught by Professor Wayfarer at the Halo School of Debate.'

- ROFL!!!
Classic :P

Probably the most clear and accurate view of the whole situation.

comedycentral.com/mp/play.../8125.html (http://comedycentral.com/mp/play.php?reposid=/multimedia/tds/headlines/8125.html)