Haha, found this freelance ad (http://members.cox.net/macallan_the/GW/GWBush1_Start.htm) for Bush.

i wonder how long hes been a carpenter =(

Funny come to my state where un-employment sit's at over 7.5%. a state that has lost over 50'000 manufacturing job's since GW took office.
they love to taut the fact that unemployment number's are lower this month that last, but what they fail to tell you is that those number's are for NEW claim's.
Does'nt count the people who have have been unable to find decent employment or those who's benifit's have run out.
Home ownership up? has nothing to do with GW or washinton in any form. it's due to the large number of loanshark type establishment's that exist today.
Hear a new ad for them every day, "no money, no job, no credit, no problem. just sign here and don't worry about that silly fine print stuff."
That ad was full of number's!!!
Remember there are Lie's, Damn Lie's and statistic's

double post, stupid eazy board.

Shave a tiny bit of a percent off that unemployment rate by reading this (before my brain explodes): tranchant.plus.com/misc/apostrophe (http://tranchant.plus.com/misc/apostrophe)

Remember there are Lie's, Damn Lie's and statistic's

Heh. Remember. Kerry is making something that isn't Bush's fault a huge campaign issue.

I always loved this quote:

The Government are very keen on amassing statistics. They collect them, add them, raise them to the nth power; take the cube root and prepare wonderful diagrams. But you must never forget that every one of these figures comes in the first instance from the village watchman who puts down what he damn well pleases.
-Sir Josiah Stamp, English Economists and President of the Bank of England

And never fear, the recovery is on the way

Job Creation Plan (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04073/285078.stm)

Fil

www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/930vunto.asp?pg=1 (http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/930vunto.asp?pg=1)

Perhaps if you wanted to keep those auto-manufacturing jobs, you'd make your state more hospitable to their companies... (Toyota, BMW, Nissan, Honda all have plants in the South) and make sure your candidate would rather vote for freetrade instead of protectionism. But Kerry can't even do that, he turns around and hugs an environmentalist instead of supporting his union workers :p

Wrong state.

Well, what state ?

www.bls.gov/lau/home.htm#tables (http://www.bls.gov/lau/home.htm#tables)

Unless you're from Alaska (7.4%) I will call bullshit on your posted unemployment rate.

And even if you are from Alaska, I don't think you're the bastion of manufacturing and you need to learn to fish or something. :p

Hah..
Bullshit figures.
from this (http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/business/8221824.htm?1c) link
In reality.. the Unemployment figure is 7.4%. What the fictional number of 5.6 doesnt show is that 40% of the unemployed have been out of work for 15 or more weeks (a 20 year record) and therefore considered "not looking" and excluded from the figure.

Also.. there are 2 different figures. When all buisness report the number of people they employ, they show a loss of 2.4 million jobs. The household survey.. which bush is relying on, shows a gain of 450,000 jobs.
Which is more accurate? Ask Greenspan.
According to Alan Greenspan: “I wish I could say the household survey were the more accurate. Everything we've looked at suggests that it's the payroll data which are the series which you have to follow.”

additionally
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, only 21,000 new jobs were created in February. More than two million fewer jobs exist today than in February 2001. In the past year, fewer than 10,000 jobs have been created each month. Based on data posted this morning on the Labor Department Web site:

-- The average jobless worker has been unemployed for more than 20 weeks - the longest prolonged period since the records began in 1948.

-- 1.9 million workers have been unemployed longer than six months - no improvement from last year's figures and higher than any previous February since 1994.

-- Only 61.8 percent of Americans had work last month, making that the worst employment rate for any February since 1994.

-- The seasonally adjusted percentages of high school graduates and college graduates without jobs are the highest since 1992 (the year the data series began).

-- The number of unemployed workers has increased by 101,000 since February 2003. The number of "discouraged workers" who have given up actively looking for jobs also increased by 34,000 to 484,000 - the highest February figure since 1994.

-- For women, the recent employment news is especially troubling. The seasonally adjusted employment rate for women is 55.9 percent, the lowest it has been since 1996.

stop the lies...

Perhaps if you wanted to keep those auto-manufacturing jobs, you'd make your state more hospitable to their companies... (Toyota, BMW, Nissan, Honda all have plants in the South) and make sure your candidate would rather vote for freetrade instead of protectionism. But Kerry can't even do that, he turns around and hugs an environmentalist instead of supporting his union workers

First off, at least my link was funny ( sad, but funny ) :) . In response, you bring up trade policy. /yawn Thanks.

I guess CAFE has to be for enviromental reasons. Certainly couldn't be about reducing our dependence on foreign oil.

www.asashop.org/autoinc/april2002/legis.cfm (http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/april2002/legis.cfm)

Why are we getting creamed in the car market? Camry gets better mileage than the Taurus. Also not mentioned is that current CAFE standards have been in place since the original legislation in 1975. Of course the author of the article hints that car makers are going to voluntarily raise it over the next few years, but doesn't say why they hadn't made the move in the last 27 years.

Oh yea, the trade policy junk. Protectionism? You mean like the steel industry?


www.forbes.com/2003/12/05/cx_da_1205topnews.html (http://www.forbes.com/2003/12/05/cx_da_1205topnews.html)

Fil

edit: link fixed in preview, trying again, no idea what the problem was

308,000 new jobs in March :)

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,115958,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,115958,00.html)

sg.news.yahoo.com/040401/1/3j7km.html (http://sg.news.yahoo.com/040401/1/3j7km.html)

and fix your Forbes link Fil? Doesn't work for me.

Why bother akipt? L2 will simply tell you it's a lie. Hell the 21,000 that L2 quoted is no longer valid but he keeps on trumpeting it.

For a long time the unemployment rate has excluded people not looking for work (e.g. stay at home moms, workers going back to school, etc.). Yet for the Bush administration to exclude those people, it makes the unemployment number a "lie".

ok so i was off .4%
government numbers (http://www.workforceexplorer.com/admin/uploadedPublications/1885_laus_current.xls)
your right i forgot jetliner's are agricultural job's.
Frankly i don't need the propaganda number's posted by the goverment to tell me thing's are'nt as rosey as they want you to believe. all i have to do is talk to the people around me wich i do everyday.
Btw i'm in snohomosh county. wich is doing alot better at 7.1% than the county's that are over 10%

What we should do is get away from this capitalism crap. This business of finding the cheapest way to produce something and moving the jobs there that has gone on for hundreds of years in many countries - it's all crap.

308,000 new jobs in March
Ya.. after shedding 2.4 million since in office.. yay?

Notice that suddenly Bush selectively takes the figures from Payroll census now thats its positive when he was earlier taking the figures from the Household census in Akipts video.

Now is 308,000 jobs good? Yes. Its a good sign after hemoraging 2.4 million of them.. Dude, Wheres My 2.1 Million Jobs! If this recovery continues at this pace Bush could have gotten to point where he has undone all the damage he did in his first four years at the end of his second term! WE BREAK EVEN!

If you think that any president has that large of a direct effect on the employment rate, then I'd have to say you're stupider than an average public school-teacher.

That was an ad for Bush, not a Bush ad .. little difference there L2 :p

And of course 9/11, a decade of corporate scandals, and the recession (http://www.nber.org/cycles/recessions.html) after Bush was in office only 2 months had nothing to do with any of the job loses.

Bush's tax cuts, the Fed's 1% interest rate, and the hard work and ingenuity of the American worker have made this the most shallow recession ever.

But keep up with the doom and gloom L2, it's almost amusing.

If you think that any president has that large of a direct effect on the employment rate, then I'd have to say you're stupider than an average public school-teacher.
Like it or not.. fair or Not.. a President is responsible for the things that happens during his term in office.
Is it all Bushs fault? No.. of course not. I realize that the economy is cyclical, but I dont think the things he is doing and planning will have a good effect on our well being.
Bush came to office pledging tax cuts (especially for the wealthy) to keep the strong economy rolling.
During the downswing he promised tax cuts for the upper tax brackets to get it moving again. Granted, the child credit was a great idea. And he HAS thrown a few bones to the blue collar people, but the meat has been to the upper stratum of income.
meanwhile.. our once balanced budget is once again, knee deep in red ink. Deficit spending is back! So increase government spending while cutting taxes. Something is gonna give.
And Im sorry if you dont like gloom and doom, but your euphoric illusion bourne of this psuedo-reagan fake optimism isnt any more helpful. Your boy is fucking alot of things up. And thats why he will be looking for a job in November. Bush is neck and neck in polls of LIKELY voters. HA. thats the funny thing. What people know about this election is that it is going to fucking ROUGH.
Each side is hugely energized, but the deciding factor imo, is the polarization that Bush has embraced will cause people to flock to the polls in record numbers for this election. You are gonna have people vote in this election that have never voted before, and may never vote after.
It will be a VERY interesting fall.

btw,, NBR great source.. about time you found one. But its highly technical and is basing its findings off its own theory that GDP is the best indicator of quarterly economic strength.
Are there other theories that place different factors about the Gross Domestic Product as a way to gauge the economy.. yes there are.
Some critics on either side say it is influenced by relative weakness/strength of the dollar abroad or that in an age of technology and information a GDP does not accuratly chart all forms of production and relies too heavily on the industrial.
>shrug<

In reality, the economy isnt at any point where its overwhelming obvious of either its weakness or strength. The question will be one that is more personal. If more people feel they a bit better off or a bit worse, they will vote accordingly.
But for Bush to lay it on so think about great the economy is doing is dishonest. Again. And thats my real problem. the lies. If Kerry spends time trying to convince people how awful the economy is then hes just as wrong.
Id give it a C, and since I cat stand bush.. Ill make that a C-, but no matter how much your hot for the fuckhead Bush, you cant in reality give the economy anything higher than a C+

Wheres My 2.1 Million Jobs!

THis recovery is proceeding at about the same speed as the recovery in the early 90's. I suppose if a Dem wins the election, he'll take credit for a cyclical recovery like Clinton did.

EVeryone I know seems to think the late 90's was normal, and that, since we're not doing as well as we were in the late 90's, someone must be at fault.

Great.

gonna be fun to watch Kerry spin March's economic news.

He will say nothing if hes smart.

Summer slow down will take some of the momentum out if it really is a trend anyway.

btw,, NBR great source.. about time you found one.

Coming from someone who rarely, if ever, gives source - well I just have to chuckle at this statement.

"The economy is growing and people are finding jobs," Bush told a community college audience in the election swing state of West Virginia. "This economy is strong. It is getting stronger."

Yup, every economic indicator is ticking better (Except that .1% unemployment rate which is based off of the household survey that you don't like anyway.)

It's all about the trends, so you go on with your doom and gloom... or "below average" whatever. We're the best in the world right now, and we're only getting better.

Well.. if you even read the thread youd see in this one, I quoted the New York Times top finacial reporter and the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Ill tell you what.. tell me exactally what uncited quotes you have a problem with and I will cite them. I stand by everything I quoted and the facts behind them. And I use only sources that are as neutral as possible.
Maybe at some point youll stop relying on Foxnews and other rightwing propaganda machines for your information.
But then it would probably be harder to swallow the lies.

L2 is like a sensible Hartmut!

/semihijack on)

If I wasn't 40, fixed, and with a long term partner, I'd ask L2 to have my babies ;) . I've been amazed for years at how seemingly intelligent people will seem to swallow anything, even the selling out of our own economic security and basic freedoms, as long as it's done by the 'patriotic', 'free market', right. I've had a hellish week at work and haven't had time to comment meaningfully to either of these threads, but Lleauric, your statements in the Kerry thread regarding corruption in the military-industrial complex elite, erosion of basic freedoms and the right to oversight of our government, and the selling out of American economic and national security for the sake of profits for the few (not to mention the Iraq fiasco, which I in my more cynical moments take to be Bush's plan to stimulate the economy ;) ) are right on and you've been a breath of fresh air on these boards. I am very glad to see someone argue so passionately and intelligently about what smells in the current administration and which all the flag waving, draping everything in patriotism, and demagoguery) (not to mention not-so-vague threats that to question implies a lack of patriotism) cannot hide. /hands L2 some throat lozenges and spare megaphone batteries) Keep preaching brother, and Go go good team!

Like L2, I love my country, and what it stands for, and it frustrates and shames me to see what our actions, both at home and abroad, are doing to the image and the reality of our 'shining city on the hill'. We have a right, an obligation, to question our government when it oversteps its bounds of being 'by and for the people', and I think it's high time we did some questioning... (as to whether it's *really* in our best interests to sell out our manufacturing *and* much of our IT industries down the river for the sake of (cough) 'shareholder value' for example. People in service industry jobs can't afford many serivces...).

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

as to whether it's *really* in our best interests to sell out our manufacturing *and* much of our IT industries

Sigh. Then change your shopping habits. We all show manufacturers that we want the cheapest prices. Therefore, they have to find the cheapest way to produce the product.

As I've said several times. The "IT oursourcing to India" thing is overblown. The estimate I've seen twice now is that about 3% of the jobs lost in this recession are white collar jobs lost to India. That means it's about 69k jobs since Jan 1, 2000 (the "jobs lost" number used by everyone, including Kerry, is usually 2.3 million). And that's total white collar jobs, not just IT jobs.

308k jobs were created in March. Yeah, who knows what the pay rates were. But look at the numbers and the real impact is obvious - it's small.

it's small
Today.

Is it however... the first few drops in a deluge?

It could be.

Also, the sun could blow up tomorrow.

We have a right, an obligation, to question our government when it oversteps its bounds of being 'by and for the people'

That is the true definition of Patriotism!!!
/cheer nydia

heh heh ... the unemployment claims are down bla bla bla ...

Read it carefully. CLAIMS

Problem with quoting that is, most places you can't claim for unemployment benefits after 6 months plus whatever your extension is.

I see too many other unemployed dads on the playground when I take my kid to believe everything this ad claims.

It's NEW jobless claims -- i.e. FIRST TIME jobless claims. Your 6 month limit for unemployment benefits is irrelevant to the number published today. And, yes, the number (328,000) was very very good.