http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/5375029/vatican-defends-brazil-excommunication/

I kind of think religion has served its purpose. At least in its current form.

Also religion is the biggest gag in the history of the universe.

As the Catholic Church continues to collapse, stories such as this will hopefully speed it's demise.

I think this is blown way out of proportion. It isn't like excommunication means they take you out and chop your head off. It just means you are no longer allowed to take communion in the church. But let's face it, if you are either having an abortion or performing one the catholic church isn't for you anyway. What's the big deal here?

It's just a way for 1 group of people to feel superior to another.

He also said the accused stepfather would not be expelled from the church. Although the man allegedly committed "a heinous crime ... the abortion - the elimination of an innocent life - was more serious".


This, this is why I say screw religion.

I don't know, I'd say raping a 9 yr old and getting her pregnant was pretty gosh damn bad. The church is out of touch.

My wife is Catholic and I have been forced to attend a Catholic church. At first I was doing so alone with my kids(my wife worked at a Hospital and couldn't attend any Masses). I actually enjoyed it for a little while...then the preaching about "Right to Life" and just the dullness of doing the exact same service over and over and over and over.......

Now it's hard to go at all...I have lost almost all faith in Christianity (not the moral teachings but the rest of it).

I just added a quote to my signature that sums my feelings up on faith at this point:

"Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power."

The Catholic faith does not represent all religion, nor all of Christianity, not by a long shot. This all might have been a little easier had the abortion been done before actual surgery was needed, in my opinion.

My view and the view of my church (in a nutshell) is that abortion is viable in cases of rape/incest and/or danger to the mother's life, the same in fact as Brazilian law (as mentioned in the article).

What's the big deal here? The 9 year old girl was pregnant with twins. She could not have survived the pregnancy at all.
Q: What about religion?
A: Doctrinaire religious beliefs that prescribe a specific way of life and ban certain technologies may be a major threat to our ability to adapt to a changing world — but as long as they are confined to their practitioners the rest of us can probably survive them. However, if religious beliefs erupt onto the larger stage (for example, when believers acquire the levers of power and legislate their taboos into the code by which entire nations run) we may have problems. Example #1: The US federal ban on funding for embryonic stem cell research badly damaged the pursuit of medical treatments for a number of conditions (such as Parkinson's Disease). Example #2: a Saudi judge has issued a ruling banning the use of alcohol as a fuel (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=10f_1235093342): "the prophet has cursed not only who drinks it but also those who use it for other purposes". These are relatively minor examples of doctrine colliding with the modern technosphere; if nothing worse happens in the 21st century, we'll be lucky. Possible example of something worse: the Vatican has just muddled into the global debate on illegal drugs (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/27/vatican-un-drugs-policy) by denouncing harm reduction strategies — and risks making things that much worse, just as their principled anti-condom stance poured gasoline on the African AIDS crisis in the 1980s and 1990s.
Source (http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/02/the_21st_century_faq.html)

The 9 year old girl was pregnant with twins. She could not have survived the pregnancy at all. Source (http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/02/the_21st_century_faq.html)

That wasn't what I was referring to. I meant what is the big deal about being excommunicated? There are plenty of other christian denominations who would be more than happy to take her in. If you are hardcore about being Roman catholic, then you have to accept the consequences when you go against the church doctrine (which sadly does not make allowances for rape victims or even survival of the mother for that matter). Luckily those consequences are simply loss of "membership" and nothing more serious. Unlike, say, what the Taliban does to apostates.

Since she clearly values her own life more than strict adherence to catholic doctrine, she should leave the church anyway and find a faith that more closely serves her spiritual needs without costing her life.

I think this is blown way out of proportion. It isn't like excommunication means they take you out and chop your head off. It just means you are no longer allowed to take communion in the church. But let's face it, if you are either having an abortion or performing one the catholic church isn't for you anyway. What's the big deal here?

For me, the big deal is their complete disregard for the fact that the medical experts doubted this 9 year old girl, who was raped, would survive the pregnancy. They are more concerned with two unborn children than one already in this world. Fuck them.


And the comment about her "valuing her own life more than the church doctrines" can hardly be applied to a 9 year old. I am glad to hear that the freak is being held in protective custody, as it tells me that his life would be in danger otherwise. Nice knowing that there are people down there as outraged as some of us here about this.

For me, the big deal is their complete disregard for the fact that the medical experts doubted this 9 year old girl, who was raped, would survive the pregnancy. They are more concerned with two unborn children than one already in this world. Fuck them.


And the comment about her "valuing her own life more than the church doctrines" can hardly be applied to a 9 year old. I am glad to hear that the freak is being held in protective custody, as it tells me that his life would be in danger otherwise. Nice knowing that there are people down there as outraged as some of us here about this.

Sadly catholic doctrine (as interpreted by the Pope at least) makes clear that is precisely their belief. They treat abortion as murder, period. People know this as soon as they are confirmed in the church, so it isn't as if it comes as a surprise to any catholic. In any case, membership in any christian religion is *voluntary*. No one is holding a gun to her (or her parent's) heads and saying "you will be a good catholic or else". So she was excommunicated by the catholics? So what? She is better off as a member of a different church anyway. As you said, fuck them.

The true crime here is that she was raped in the first place, not that a church has expelled her and her doctors for not following its rules. However the initial post was not expressing rage at the fact a little girl was raped and impregnated, but rather that a church had the temerity to enforce its own (stupid) rules.

Personally I would rather the freak were not held in protective custody. Justice would be better served, if you catch my drift. I have no tolerance for kiddy fiddlers and I'm guessing South American prisons are no safer than US ones.

. I have no tolerance for kiddy fiddlers and I'm guessing South American prisons are no safer than US ones.


I would not be at all surprised to learn there were several pools already on the date of the rapist's demise within the prison system, as well as among those in the local law enforcement.

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/03/billy_graham_answers_his_email.php

Shorter Billy Graham: The difference between their cult and mine is that they think they have the absolute truth, when I know that I do.

Seems to sum up this situation too.

In any case, membership in any christian religion is *voluntary*. No one is holding a gun to her (or her parent's) heads and saying "you will be a good catholic or else". While Brazil's constitution claims there to be no official religion, the de facto official religion is Catholicism. That means you aren't going to get elected if you aren't Catholic, and in some parts of the country you'll have a hard time getting a job.

While three quarters of Brazilian's are currently catholics, a solid one quarter are not. Although I can't say for sure (not being Brazilian), I would be very surprised if there is any disclosure of religion required for job interviews or if anyone really cares in her case, given the circumstances of the issue.

I do know the Brazilian constitution makes it illegal to discriminate against ethnic or religious groups. Of course, I recognize what a constitution says and what is practiced are often not quite the same. Still, officially atheist communist candidates do run (and occasionally win) local elections in various parts of Brazil. I can see where not being catholic would affect ones chances of winning national office though.

I just more closely read that she herself was *not* excommunicated though. Apparently it was only the adult doctors and her mother.

On the other hand, the Catholic Church only talks mean and behaves in an asinine fashion......


"CAIRO - A 75-year old widow in Saudi Arabia has been sentenced to 40 lashes, four months in jail and deportation. She had asked two men who are not close relatives to bring bread to her house. The punishment prompted criticism for the kingdom's ultraconservative religious police and judiciary. The woman's lawyer, Abdel Rahman al-Lahem, said Monday he would appeal the verdict against Khamisa Sawadi, who is Syrian but was married to a Saudi. The lawyer identified one man as the nephew of Sawadi's late husband and the other as a friend and business partner. The men have been sentenced to lashes and prison."

That fucking whore! How dare she ask for bread! Only 40 lashes? Pussies!

On a side note, how the fuck do they even find out about this shit? I mean did someone really run and tell a cop she asked for bread?

On a side note, how the fuck do they even find out about this shit? I mean did someone really run and tell a cop she asked for bread?

Who do you think is the next big market for all the mass surveillance technology we develop "to defend freedom?" Hint: it's not people with as good of human rights records and even less pretense of being good guys.

On the other hand, the Catholic Church only talks mean and behaves in an asinine fashion......


"CAIRO - A 75-year old widow in Saudi Arabia has been sentenced to 40 lashes, four months in jail and deportation. She had asked two men who are not close relatives to bring bread to her house. The punishment prompted criticism for the kingdom's ultraconservative religious police and judiciary. The woman's lawyer, Abdel Rahman al-Lahem, said Monday he would appeal the verdict against Khamisa Sawadi, who is Syrian but was married to a Saudi. The lawyer identified one man as the nephew of Sawadi's late husband and the other as a friend and business partner. The men have been sentenced to lashes and prison."


I heard about this, I also heard that the one who was her nephew she breastfed and that under islamic law made them close enough for this contact but the court said she didn't have enough proof that she had breastfed him. Seriously organized religion of any belief system just scares the hell out of me.

On a side note, how the fuck do they even find out about this shit? I mean did someone really run and tell a cop she asked for bread? The "cop" is a muttawa - from the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice - more commonly known as "religious police." They routinely go around (to stores and restaurants) beating up people for failing to pray when it is prayer time, or for being in the presence of the opposite sex without being married. They carry sticks and beat anyone who doesn't produce ID fast enough. Westerners who fight back are expelled from the magic kingdom and permanently forbidden from returning (and usually beaten by the real police as part of it).

In August, the religious police banned (http://saudijeans.org/2008/08/01/saudi-cats-dogs/) Saudis from walking their pets in public because, they said, young men were using their dogs and cats to attract women on the streets. Source (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2008/11/saudi-arabia-re.html)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_for_the_Promotion_of_Virtue_and_Prevent ion_of_Vice
Interview with head of the muttawas (http://www.aawsat.com/english/news.asp?section=3&id=12954)