http://www.reason.com/news/show/131131.html

Drug prohibition militarizes our police, enriches our enemies, undermines our laws, and condemns our sick to suffering.

There once was a time when cops were named Gus, they wore light blue shirts, carried a billy club and actually got out of their cars and walked a beat.

Bush constantly saying things that were so stupid they boggled the mind has made me numb to politicans saying stupid things. But Reagan actually compared something he was supporting to the battle of Verdun?

Really?

Bush constantly saying things that were so stupid they boggled the mind has made me numb to politicans saying stupid things. But Reagan actually compared something he was supporting to the battle of Verdun?

Really?

it shouldnt be news to anyone that reagan was pretty much insane.

it shouldnt be news to anyone that reagan was pretty much insane.

Get back to contributing ....well nothing please and not to comment on era's before your time and your much valued revisionist history books talk for you.

I had already turned in my cartoon Friday afternoon when, Saturday morning, I read the news that Reagan’s health was failing. I began drawing immediately. I have had a rough draft of this cartoon ready for this occasion for years. As the day continued I kept getting e-mails and text messages from friends excitedly anticipating the Gipper’s impending death. Finally Steve, with whom I have planned for over a decade to hold a party on the day of Reagan’s funeral, called me from the track, where he was betting on the Belmont Stakes, to tell me that the old bastard was finally dead. He reported that there had been a perfunctory Moment of Silence, lasting approximately 1.6 seconds, before everyone went back to betting. It was beautiful. As the afternoon went on I got a flood of congratulatory calls from friends around the world—Ben in Boston, Megan and Mike in New York, Berkeley in Baltimore, even Allison in Bulgaria. I e-mailed this cartoon into the City Paper around seven P.M., begging them in the name of our sweet lord and savior Jesus Christ to stop the presses and please run this Wednesday, and then headed down to Baltimore to drink tiny beers and watch The Big Lebowski. The Reagan party will be held at my house this weekend.

Perhaps it may seem insensitive and unpatriotic to some for me to run such an ugly cartoon at this time of national mourning. To those of you who hold this view, I must respectfully say gently caress you. Some of my younger readers may not even remember Ronald Regan’s presidency, and I would not want them to be misled by the onslaught of state propaganda they’ll be subjected to this week. Calling him the Great Communicator is like calling Hitler the Great Negotiator, and if we’re going to credit him with winning the Cold War we may as well credit him with the Challenger disaster and the return of Halley’s Comet. Let me tell you what it was really like:

Even at age twelve I could tell that Jimmy Carter was an honest man trying to address complicated issues and Ronald Reagan was a brilcreemed salesman telling people what they wanted to hear. I secretly wept on the stairs the night he was elected President, because I understood that the kind of shitheads I had to listen to in the cafeteria grew up to become voters, and won. I spent the eight years he was in office living in one of those science-fiction movies where everyone is taken over by aliens—I was appalled by how stupid and mean-spirited and repulsive the world was becoming while everyone else in America seemed to agree that things were finally exactly as they should be. The Washington Press corps was so enamored of his down-to-earth charm that they never checked his facts, but if you watched his face when it was at rest, when he wasn’t performing for anyone, you could see him for what he really was—a black-eyed, slit-mouthed, lizard-faced old son-of-a-bitch. He was a bad actor, an informer for McCarthy, and a hired front man for a gang of Texas oilmen, fundamentalist dingbats, and right-wing psychotics out of Dr. Strangelove. He put a genial face on chauvanism, callousness, and greed, and made people feel good about being bigots again. He likened Central American death squads to our founding fathers and called the Taliban “freedom fighters.” His legacy includes the dismantling of Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal, the final dirty win of Management over Labor, the outsourcing of America’s manufacturing base, the embezzlement of almost all the country's wealth by 1% of its citizens, the scapegoating of the poor and black, the War on Drugs, the eviction of schizophrenics into the streets, AIDS, acid rain, Iran-Contra, and, let’s not forget, the corpses of two hundred forty United States Marines. He moved the center of political discourse in this country to somewhere in between Richard Nixon and Augusto Pinochet. He believed in astrology and Armageddon and didn't know the difference between history and movies; his stories were lies and his jokes were scripted. He was the triumph of image over truth, paving the way for even more vapid spokesmodels like George W. Bush. He was, as everyone agrees, exactly what he appeared to be—nothing. He made me ashamed to be an American. If there was any justice in this world his Presidential Library would contain nothing but boys' adventure books and bad cowboy movies, and the only things named after him would be shopping malls and Potter's Fields. Let the earth where he is buried be seeded with salt.

"After the 1973 war and the first Arab oil shock, look at what America did and what Denmark did. What we did was say, "Wow! We've got to really take on this issue." So beginning with President Ford and President Carter we said we were going to double the fuel efficiency of American cars from about 13 mpg then to I think it was 27.5. We were going to do it over ten years and we did it. We were so successful doing that we helped break OPEC in the late '70s and early '80s and crater the price of oil. That worked out so well that Ronald Reagan, when he came along, said, "That's enough of that!" He ripped off the solar panels that Jimmy Carter had put on the White House roof -- they were recently auctioned online.... Some of those solar companies that we spawned in the '70's and '80's -- they went bust also when we removed our subsidies and taxes. They were bought by Japan. I can't tell you how grateful the innovators and corporate leaders of Japan and Denmark are today for all the money America invested in research in wind and solar, spawning companies here which went bust in the '80s when we removed the subsidies from them.... One of the leading wind innovators in America, in fact, was given a medal of honor by the government of Denmark. All his technology ended up there."
--Thomas Friedman , New York Times columnist, interviewed by Terry Gross of WHYY's "Fresh Air," about the revelations in his book, Hot, Flat, and Crowded, 8 September 2008


"A tree's a tree. How many more do you need to look at?"
--Ronald Reagan (Governor of California), quoted in the Sacramento Bee, opposing expansion of Redwood National Park, March 3, 1966

"I don't believe a tree is a tree and if you've seen one you've seen them all."
--Governor Ronald Reagan, in the Sacramento Bee, September 14, 1966

this is not even mentioning the star wars retardation. yea, he sure was a swell guy.

hell, just look at these quotes yourself.
http://www.geocities.com/thereaganyears/reaganquotes.htm

edit: HAHA i even forgot trickle down economics, that was hilarious.

it shouldnt be news to anyone that reagan was pretty much insane.

Quite a few of us do realize the amount of damage that Reagan did, he is certainly not worthy of his reputation.

No, he legitimately won the cold war...by leveraging our credit rating such that we could outproduce them soviets.

As an aside, Friedman's book that Wiggo quoted was amazing.

As I've stated here many times, Reagan was so far from real support to US Military troops it was but a myth.

"Because Vietnam was not a declared war, the veterans are not even eligible for the G. I. Bill of Rights with respect to education or anything."--Ronald Reagan, in Newsweek, April 21, 1980

He was hugely supportive of large defense contractors and useless weapons systems.

It's too late guys, Reagan has already been deified by the idiots. Whether or not he did anything but look good is totally irrelevant to this generation of Real Americans (tm)(r) and you'd be better off trying to discredit Jesus Christ.

Wait, so Reagan was an imaginary friend for grownups?

Don't worry guys, the self Flagellation can continue in 2013 when the Jebster can relegitifimy the Ovilish office!

I for one look forward to the day the confederate flag can be hoisted above the WHITE house and we can return to seeing the reality that redwoods are not tree's, but instead magnificant picnic tables waiting to be crafted by our well paid Chinese brethren.

Eh revisionist history is all the rage on both sides of the house. Most of you are far too young to remember the debacle of Jimmy Carter but I've heard some of you say he was a solid president over the years.

Please...

What does Jimmy Carter have to do with Reagan? What specifically are you citing as revisionist history?

Eh revisionist history is all the rage on both sides of the house. Most of you are far too young to remember the debacle of Jimmy Carter but I've heard some of you say he was a solid president over the years.

Please...


Carter was an honest President, he long ago predicted the world energy issue that we are NOW going through. What was the debacle of Carter?

Carter was an honest President, he long ago predicted the world energy issue that we are NOW going through. What was the debacle of Carter?

he wasnt all image and no substance like reagan?

Errr the economy, double digit inflation, the world using us as a doormat general unhappiness?

nm forgot the sway of this board.

Carry on

he wasnt all image and no substance like reagan?

Troll is right, whack job.

Go back to your country doing more...err doing anything..errr okay being package everyone else has to tote please.

Troll is right, whack job.

Go back to your country doing more...err doing anything..errr okay being package everyone else has to tote please.

wat.

Errr the economy, double digit inflation, the world using us as a doormat general unhappiness?

nm forgot the sway of this board.

Carry on


The economy? Unemployment under Carter was 7.1% obviously not good but under Reagan it was 9.6%. Double digit inflation? I think you mean Nixon and Ford, Ford also being a pretty decent honest President.

Funny how every president is demonized by the opposing side. In the last 30yrs does anyone think that there is a president that both sides can say...yeah he did a good job? Does that bother anyone else?

Eh revisionist history is all the rage on both sides of the house. Most of you are far too young to remember the debacle of Jimmy Carter but I've heard some of you say he was a solid president over the years.

Please...

I don't recall anyone saying Carter was a great president -- however his greatest failure was being a fairly honest guy in competition with a professional con-man in Ronald Reagan. If not for the extremely illegal acts of the Reagan people in dealing with Iran (and I note there is ZERO self-righteous indignation over this despite individuals in question going ballistic when Carter goes to another country to remind people that genocide is bad) it's possible, although obviously moot, that the election of 80 could have seemed less one-sided.

The horrible economy of the late 70s pre-dated and post-dated Carter, and as pointed out was better under him in some respects than under several years of Reagan's administration. What he might have done differently is up the air, but conveniently dropping the entire blame on him is just another element of the Reagan deification.

Not being up to intransigent problems is a little bit different from actively destroying the 4th and 8th amendments, turning the police on their own communities, and wasting untold billions of dollars killing people here and by the hundreds of thousands in South America (an act for which he was lauded! at the time).


Funny how every president is demonized by the opposing side. In the last 30yrs does anyone think that there is a president that both sides can say...yeah he did a good job? Does that bother anyone else?

Both Carter and Ford get ragged on far more than deserved, though it would be a stretch to call them good. Bush Sr wasn't terrible either, although it's hard to say how much of his administration was inherited from Reagan policies that he was actively against during the 1980 primaries. I'd have taken ANY president from the last 30 years over Reagan or Bush Jr.

Funny how every president is demonized by the opposing side. In the last 30yrs does anyone think that there is a president that both sides can say...yeah he did a good job? Does that bother anyone else?



The last one that comes to my mind was RFK. Still, you'll hear about his womanizing from anyone Republican, that isn't afraid to bad mouth a President who was assassinated. That, and he was President more than 30 years ago...

Errr the economy, double digit inflation, the world using us as a doormat general unhappiness?

nm forgot the sway of this board.

Carry on

Before you get all defensive and belligerent, I'm seriously just trying to figure out what it is you mean.

That Reagan's Presidency was defined by its comparison to Carter, therefore Carter's flaws are more relevant than Reagan's strengths?

I really don't understand where you're going with this. Carter's flaws don't justify Reagan's.

Before you get all defensive and belligerent, I'm seriously just trying to figure out what it is you mean.

That Reagan's Presidency was defined by its comparison to Carter, therefore Carter's flaws are more relevant than Reagan's strengths?

I really don't understand where you're going with this. Carter's flaws don't justify Reagan's.


Over the years any disagreement or even the blatant law breaking by the republican party has been simply pawned off as "The liberal elite media". The media has not been liberal, quite the contrary they were the main cheering session for the Iraq war, they cheered on the completely insignificance of Jeremiah Wright, William Ayers and a host of other non-isssues. The media has one concern that is ratings, wars sell newspapers, they sell dedicated programming which sells advertising.

I would just like to go on the record and say I've never said Carter was a good president.

I do, however, think that he doesn't deserve the reputation he has gotten over the years since his presidency. I also respect him very much for his humanitarian work and his efforts to stop violence from the Middle East to Africa.

and his efforts to stop violence from the Middle East to Africa.

Stop violence...stop violence!! Damn liberals.:)

Os hat off.

Reagan is second on my all time worst president list...granted, this list only goes back as far I was aware of what presidents were doing:(. We all know who is first. His absolute destruction of the Mental Health Industry was legendary the effects of which we continue to feel to this very day.

Bush Sr wasn't terrible either, although it's hard to say how much of his administration was inherited from Reagan policies that he was actively against during the 1980 primaries.


Keep in mind that Bush Sr perpetuated the criminal behavior of Dick Cheney by selecting him for Secretary of Defense. Cheney, while working for Ford, was instrumental in having the studies done and subsequent legislation written and passed that would allow the military services to contract out out certain areas of responsibility. He then left government service and was in the position of making money from those military contracts. Bush Sr bringing him back in to run the Defense Dept was putting the fox in charge of the chicken coop.

And the rest is history.

The economy? Unemployment under Carter was 7.1% obviously not good but under Reagan it was 9.6%. Double digit inflation? I think you mean Nixon and Ford, Ford also being a pretty decent honest President.


Sorry Rover this is patently untrue. I've posted the links here before and it's a matter of record. Both unemployment and inflation were at much higher numbers during the Carter regime.

I'll find the link for you later.

Sorry Rover this is patently untrue. I've posted the links here before and it's a matter of record. Both unemployment and inflation were at much higher numbers during the Carter regime.

I'll find the link for you later.

What I posted is the record. Dude, I was in the workforce under both Carter and Reagan with an interim stint in the Marine corps under both presidents. Don't buy the bullshit about Reagan it is truly one of the best examples of revisionist history. Sure during Reagan we got M-1 Tanks but veterans benefits were cut as were public health programs and not to mention the rise of the religious right in our government the trashing of the constitution the illegal dealing with Iran and allowing Hezbollah to flourish after they killed 241 Marines.

Under Carter we got the F-18, Harrier, extended veterans benefits, good school programs, excellent funding of public health programs, moneys poured into medical and technology research. I can go on if you'd like.

Here's a link I found Fandros:

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-carterreagan.htm

It doesn't place the blame at Carter or Reagan. Of course I didn't go through and verify all their sources at the end of the link.

Average Unemployment rates by President:

Kennedy - 1961-63 - 5.5


Johnson - 1963-69 - 3.8


Nixon - 1969-74 - 5.9


Ford - 1974-77 - 7.4


Carter - 1977 - 1980 - 6.7


Reagan - 1981 - 1989 - 7.2


Bush - 1989-93 - 6.6

Here's a link I found Fandros:

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-carterreagan.htm

It doesn't place the blame at Carter or Reagan. Of course I didn't go through and verify all their sources at the end of the link.


Thanks Tale that's about the same set of #'s as I had from my link.

Companies were tanked during the late 70's and it took years to get folks back on the job.

I also like the analysis your link gave to start with, food for thought.

What I posted is the record. Dude, I was in the workforce under both Carter and Reagan with an interim stint in the Marine corps under both presidents. Don't buy the bullshit about Reagan it is truly one of the best examples of revisionist history. Sure during Reagan we got M-1 Tanks but veterans benefits were cut as were public health programs and not to mention the rise of the religious right in our government the trashing of the constitution the illegal dealing with Iran and allowing Hezbollah to flourish after they killed 241 Marines.

Under Carter we got the F-18, Harrier, extended veterans benefits, good school programs, excellent funding of public health programs, moneys poured into medical and technology research. I can go on if you'd like.

I joined the USAF in '85 and there was nothing but widespread love and admiration for Reagan at the time...hands down.

I'm also from the Midwest, Indiana to be precise, and the late 70's were an ugly time to grow up in that area. You could almost hear the sigh of relief when Carter was voted out and Reagen brought in. Yes I was biased as I started working with the Young Republicans in late 1979 and yes I will stand by my belief that Reagen was the best Pres in my lifetime with Clinton a distant 2nd. Hasn't been a real good selection in my lifetime tbh.

Those of you not living in that era and telling me it's revisionist to say he was a good president are an interesting lot indeed.

I joined the USAF in '85 and there was nothing but widespread love and admiration for Reagan at the time...hands down.

I'm also from the Midwest, Indiana to be precise, and the late 70's were an ugly time to grow up in that area. You could almost hear the sigh of relief when Carter was voted out and Reagen brought in. Yes I was biased as I started working with the Young Republicans in late 1979 and yes I will stand by my belief that Reagen was the best Pres in my lifetime with Clinton a distant 2nd. Hasn't been a real good selection in my lifetime tbh.

Those of you not living in that era and telling me it's revisionist to say he was a good president are an interesting lot indeed.

so your basis for him being a good president is what? he made you feel good? please, for once, be rational.

Yeah, because Presidents are supposed to make you feel badly about yourself...

Yeah, because Presidents are supposed to make you feel badly about yourself...

lol

so your basis for him being a good president is what? he made you feel good? please, for once, be rational.

Please provide the parameters for us to use in determining if our leaders were good or not, seeing as you apparently know best.

Personally, I saw little of real political interest that Reagan should be given credit for, but I see no reason that I should challenge another's view, other than to simply argue.

You ask for Fandros to be rational, without giving any rational basis for challenging his viewpoint. Just more of your looking to pick arguments, or is there actually some substance to this?

so your basis for him being a good president is what? he made you feel good? please, for once, be rational.

pot/kettle/black do you even know what the word rational means?

I think we're suffering a linguistic gap here. I'll refer you to the great quote from The Princess Bride.

I do not think that word means what you think it does.

Please provide the parameters for us to use in determining if our leaders were good or not, seeing as you apparently know best.

Personally, I saw little of real political interest that Reagan should be given credit for, but I see no reason that I should challenge another's view, other than to simply argue.

You ask for Fandros to be rational, without giving any rational basis for challenging his viewpoint. Just more of your looking to pick arguments, or is there actually some substance to this?

please read the thread bylimet, it would make you look like less of an idiot.

pot/kettle/black do you even know what the word rational means?

I think we're suffering a linguistic gap here. I'll refer you to the great quote from The Princess Bride.

I do not think that word means what you think it does.

is this a yes?

is this a yes?

Sorry, spoke above your ability to decipher. I'll try to find an etch a sketch and a 3rd grader to communicate with you.

Sorry, spoke above your ability to decipher. I'll try to find an etch a sketch and a 3rd grader to communicate with you.

oh the irony, it slayeth me.

oh the irony, it slayeth me.

Now it's translating into Olde English.

Try adding some "forsooth"s and "verily"s in there, and his responses may become more coherant.

Those of you not living in that era and telling me it's revisionist to say he was a good president are an interesting lot indeed.

We've got facts versus warm fuzzies? This isn't about whether or not you'd introduce him to your sister, and claiming Air Force Special Knowledge isn't making your case. I don't have to have been in the Roman Legions to know Caligula wasn't the greatest emperor either.

The original link contains cited information for the consequences, in money, time, and lives, for some of his policies.

We've got facts versus warm fuzzies? This isn't about whether or not you'd introduce him to your sister, and claiming Air Force Special Knowledge isn't making your case. I don't have to have been in the Roman Legions to know Caligula wasn't the greatest emperor either.

The original link contains cited information for the consequences, in money, time, and lives, for some of his policies.

gasp! how dare you inject facts into this! you sicken me with your freedom-hating commie talk!

I don't have to have been in the Roman Legions to know Caligula wasn't the greatest emperor either.


That made me LOL.

We've got facts versus warm fuzzies? This isn't about whether or not you'd introduce him to your sister, and claiming Air Force Special Knowledge isn't making your case. I don't have to have been in the Roman Legions to know Caligula wasn't the greatest emperor either.

The original link contains cited information for the consequences, in money, time, and lives, for some of his policies.

Malse you raise a good point and outside of showing you the inflation dropping and more than a few countries dancing to a fable he created I can only draw one comparison that perhaps you can understand.

Do you hear the hope and optimism in folks voices when they talk about Obama and the dreams we all hope he fulfills? That's what it was like for my area of the world. For the most part we enjoyed good times after Carter(who was at the wrong place at the wrong time I conceed) was voted out of office.

http://ayonae.com/showthread.php?t=11650

Yet, you have been the first to point out how Obama's hope-hype is not substance and that his actions are what will count.

Yet, you have been the first to point out how Obama's hope-hype is not substance and that his actions are what will count.

Will you get off my back? It's been noted by a few how quickly you like to jump on me when you're guilty of exactly the same type of shit.

Slow down your tirades directed at me bub. I fully admitted it was a feeling and not at all fact based. Jesus man you've got a serious man on for me don't you? I did l link to some facts but of course in your usual tainted bs you ignored that.

Let it go, you are not my type ;P

Btw, I've also said I hope Obama completely succeeds. Don't act as though you have taken your shots at Obama for almost exactly the same thing.

Tirade? It's a valid question. Why so defensive?

I think Obama is mostly hype, sure. How is that out of line with my also seeing through the Reagan hype that's got the stars in your eyes?