http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7509785.stm

- Let's angle this as less of a European issue (as I know it wouldn't attract too much attention) and more of an observation on modern state structures.

For a long time Belgium's north-south, flemish-walloon, divide has created constitutional crisis after crisis. With the latest PM's resignation there is much talk of the implosion of Belgium and the creation of a new state, or a confederacy much like Switzerland.

True, there is a strong cultural divide, the French speaking south being about as different as you can get from its dutch speaking northerner's, but Belgium has been around since its creation in the early nineteenth century and to believe Western political institutions cannot solve or stabilise a cultural divide like this - and in the heart of Europe - seems rather absurd to me.

Ok, so there's no civil war or bloodshed, but does that make such a rift in political survival any less spectacular than the division of Korea or the splintering of various African republics?

Any thoughts? Here's a link for some background info: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7509092.stm

"This is the climax of a series of problems, which developed over the years. The gap between the north and south has become very deep. A new confederal model will probably emerge out of this. It would be the best solution for both parties in my opinion."
Jan Tytgat, Ghent, Flanders


This sentiment was expressed once before if I recall, with the result being the greatest shedding of blood ever witnessed by my country.

But, it would be a shame to see Europe further fractured. It seems our civilization is reverting more to a tribal sense of self than toward an evolving collective body, with smaller independent groups consistently thwarting the majority. That which embodies the tribe (heritage/traditions, culture, language) may remain buried or suppressed for a long time, but as we saw with the breakup of the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia, those tribal elements of a society can come rushing back to the forefront quickly.

I hope Belgium is able to avoid such a division, and that a solution may be found somehow. But then, the lack of interaction between Flanders and Wallonia with the Dutch-French language barrier shows the country is in many ways already two separate entities. It is sad.

I blame King Leopold

Not having been there, I'm not entirely surprised that a sovereignty created out of disparate local groups as an effective buffer state is now feeling the pressure when economics have shifted against one of the constituencies. My main concern is that is what exactly does Wallonia expect to happen from any further division? The Dutch areas will have no impetus to further support their French former countrymen if an even looser confederacy is established there that gives them any out to avoid it, regardless of good intentions.

I don't think the US secession and civil war consideration is a serious one, the same conditions of one group of provinces holding on to an economic model against the changing technological and cultural times doesn't really apply. There isn't much in the way of bunkered-down reactionaries preserving "their way of life" by violence if necessary, it is probably more analogous to the East/West German post-Communism scenario, or the post-Reconstruction US South.

Not having been there, I'm not entirely surprised that a sovereignty created out of disparate local groups as an effective buffer state is now feeling the pressure when economics have shifted against one of the constituencies. My main concern is that is what exactly does Wallonia expect to happen from any further division? The Dutch areas will have no impetus to further support their French former countrymen if an even looser confederacy is established there that gives them any out to avoid it, regardless of good intentions.

I don't think the US secession and civil war consideration is a serious one, the same conditions of one group of provinces holding on to an economic model against the changing technological and cultural times doesn't really apply. There isn't much in the way of bunkered-down reactionaries preserving "their way of life" by violence if necessary, it is probably more analogous to the East/West German post-Communism scenario, or the post-Reconstruction US South.


Sorry if I gave the impression of making a comparison between our civil war period and the current events in Belgium. It was simply the comment I quoted from the one gentleman that raised the image in my mind. It seemed to parallel the mindset of those who were pushing for secession, from an intellectual stand, in our own history, IMO.

Blame the French :mad: I remember them trying to do the same thing in Quebec a fear years back.

(Anterak ilu)