http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&u=/ap/20041031/ap_on_el_pr/cheney_37&printer=1

Cheney started the day in Toledo, Ohio, pressing one of the campaign's most consistent lines of attack on Kerry's Senate vote against $87 billion to help finance the U.S. war in Iraq (news - web sites). Bush's re-election campaign says the Massachusetts senator voted as he did because of the then-surging anti-war candidate Howard Dean (news - web sites). Kerry has rejected the accusation.

Cheney said that Kerry "in order to advance himself turned his back on the troops."

He lost all credibility in that article when he brought that dead issue up. Again.

To think that anyone would need to ask others what to think about that tape is stupid beyond imagination. OSAMA BAD. It's that simple. I'm sure he knew that both before and after the tape, just like Bush.

They're really grasping straws now, or however the expression goes...

If you're going to post something negative about kerry, at least pick one worth reading.

The Bush campaign hasnt had anything new to slam Kerry with in months. The just put twists on the same old ones.

Vote Tomorrow!

(pick any name that could not be confused with a plant)

The Bush campaign hasnt had anything new to slam Kerry with in months. The just put twists on the same old ones.


Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

glad you agree :)

Os is right...Unlike Kerry, Bush is decisive, decisively wrong, but decisive. :p

In all seriousness I would rather vote for a man who was not afraid to stand up and do what he thought was right and make a decision then a man who was not sure and hedged and waffled and outright needed help making decisions.

what the hell do you think his cabinet and the people are around teh president for.. THEY HELP ME making a FREAKING decision.. One person cant make a well thought about opinion for a nation.. he needs the people around him to help come up with all possible solutions.

In all seriousness...

I won't vote for a man that has made poor decisions and believes himself infalable....a recipe for disaster.

Granted Kerry is a weak alternative...but an alternative. I'm fairly confident that if he tries to pass measures that are too left, the congress will keep it from happening.

/seriousness off


Besides, at Kerry can use and understand all dem "college boy" words. ;)

/off topic

Ail how much snow you get today? Still a white out here in Limon.

/on topic SCREW THE LIBERALS!

It's already snowed in Colorado? Damn, I was getting pissed when I got a light dusting of snow in Maine.

/off topic response

Snowed horribly overnight here in Centennial...but was light this morning but windy, snow kept blowing back on the road. Got about 8 inches at my house just southeast of Cherry Creek Res.

/on topic /seriousness off

Down with the bible thumping, environment abusing, record deficit making RIGHT!! ;)

To this day, I still don't know why anyone would vote for Kerry besides "he is not GWB", IMHO that is no reason to vote for him. You may as well vote for the candidate that likes the same color as you.

Who am I voting for if I like Pink? Gore?

One of the best reasons to vote for anyone is "he is not GWB".

Why to vote for JK?

Like Bob Smith and many other republicans, I respect him for stepping across the aisle in favor of balanced budgets.

I respect him for actually trying to make a balance between jobs and the environment.

I respect him for his Senate investigations into the BCCI affair. This never became a election issue because banking scandals are hard to understand and he did fight many entrenched Republicans and Democrats that were benefitting from BCCI in the mid to late '80's, despite the fact that BCCI was the model and origin of the terrorist financing we see today.

I respect him for his work for Veteran's and for POW/MIA's from Vietnam.

I respect him for trying to work with Republicans in his 20 years as a Senator. Of course, that has earned him the label flip-flop.

There are other reasons as well, those are some of the top ones.

Fil

Bible thumping RIGHT?

pfft, I consiter myself part of the right, and I am not part of any religion.

I realize I forgot to respond to the original point of this thread. Kerry made his statement within an hour of the video being released. Do you really think an hour is enough time to conduct a poll? The poll referenced by the article was done by Democracy Corps, while not the most independent polling organization, it isn't the Kerry campaign. Yet another example of distortion of the truth by the Bush campaign. Little wonder this was the headline on Drudge.

Fil

I will attempt to be nonpartisan here. Bush admits that he gets his direction from a high authority (quote was something like that). I don't agree with any politician at any level mixing church and state. It should not be done and I won't vote for anyone, or party that is so bold about that.

Kerry served very honorably in Vietnam, and was involved with McCain to get pow's home. He was a major force that achieved a balanced budget and created a federal surplus, that was intented and today should have closed all the books on social security.

Bush wants to talk about tax cuts; I pay 200$ per month in social security. If Bush would not have squandered that surplus for his warmongering and corporate walfare to halliburton, social security could be a closed book and I would have 200$ more in my pocket every month. Bush's tiny tax cuts are nothing compared to the cost I bear for social security that will be busted when I get there.

How was that for nonpartisan?:rolleyes:

Phelonius

The poll referenced by the article was done by Democracy Corps, while not the most independent polling organization, it isn't the Kerry campaign.
LMAO ROFL

Democracy Corps is an independent, non-profit organization dedicated to making the government of the United States more responsive to the American people. It was founded in 1999 by James Carville, Stanley Greenberg, and Bob Shrum. Democracy Corps provides free public opinion research and strategic advice to those dedicated to a more responsive Congress and Presidency.
LOL funny one Fil.

How remarkable, I found an article that kills two birds with one stone.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40595-2004Oct17.html

Stanley Greenberg, Kerry's pollster, said a higher percentage of voters... blah blah blah
And I don't need to find any articles about Carville and Shrum... that's a given.

Phel... you have ANY clue how many times Kerry, Clinton, et al have preached their political sermons from the pulpit of some church? Over 50 each. Now ask yourself how many times have you seem Bush in the pulpit. Very few, and I'm willing to bet it's less than 10 times, and most of those are from around 9/11.

But it's not just church, Kerry talks about the Lord and God more times than Moses did, but no one bothers to redicule him. Wonder why. Because he "won't wear it on his sleeve" ? What's worse, pandering to get votes, telling people what they want to hear, or actually believing it? Because Kerry has said the same, or worse about his faith above and beyond what Bush ever did, but because Bush means what he says, he gets spit on.

...but because Bush means what he says, he gets spit on.
No, Bush gets spit on because he uses faith as a decision making tool instead of facts, and because he and his supporters wish to impose their faith-based doctrines on America. Bush is more than welcome to believe what he believes, but when it dictates policy, the line is drawn.

Is it ok to mention christians in this thread since DiscW didn't start it?:confused:

I can't vouch for Kerry's faith, but Bush used "direction from a higher authority" as somewhat of a justification for invading Iraq. A true man of faith would not justify the death of 100,000 or 10,000 (which ever number is correct, doesn't matter) civilians by citing direction from God. Bush is a religious hypocrite just like the majority of them who speed on their way to church:p There is nothing wrong with speeding, just don't pretend to be holyer than thou-self righteous jackass. If you insist on living in a glass house, better stop throwing stones.

The invasion of Afghanistan was right. Osama should be dead now. We should have let the un inspectors have more time in Iraq, and if after more time, we finally decided that it was right to invade Iraq (with a bigger alliance), we should have had way better planning. Planning to secure weapons stock piles, secure cities, secure pipelines that are bombed daily, secure the borders with syria, jordan and iran. So many mistakes, in addition to Bush pushing religion down my throat.

Phelonius

I would rather back a man who has the ability to change his mind barring new facts, than a man to stand firm to something wrong regardless fo the facts.

I just want to stop getting calls every 3 hours from various organizations urging me to vote. "We don't care who you vote for, so long as you continue to support an inherantly flawed system."

Akipt, I am curious exactly how you know for sure that Bush "believes". Myself, I am skeptical of all politicians and whether anything said or done is sincere.

You differentiate Bush and Kerry saying one only acts the role of a believer but the other is a true one, and I am wondering what proof you have, regarding either one of their faith.

No, Bush gets spit on because he uses faith as a decision making tool instead of facts, and because he and his supporters wish to impose their faith-based doctrines on America.No one is forcing you to stand in line for a church's soup kitchen Thormir.

"Oh nos, Bush hates the partial birth abortion!" So did what? 90% of the Congress as well?

Bush is more than welcome to believe what he believes, but when it dictates policy, the line is drawn.
The line is drawn for you maybe, other people are different, and certainly since this country's foundation have had an entirely different perspective than you're making now.

Some people believe in God, some people believe in the government, some people believe in science, some people believe in the voices in their heads, others believe in a mixture of some of the above, but whatever it is, it's who they are as a person, and you can't dictate that no more than you can tell someone not to breathe.

This whole notion of "I believe in ____ but I can't dictate that to someone else who doesn't believe in ____." is horse shit. We set government up to govern people. Duh? And we elect people to set forth laws to do what we want. Personally, we do that too much, and I think government feels like it needs to be doing something all the time or we'll find a new one to replace it. But I digress, it's the best we've got and we'll have to manage it the best we can. If you don't like the laws being passed, elect the other guy who promises the opposite, or everything in the case of Kerry.

I would rather back a man who has the ability to change his mind barring new facts, than a man to stand firm to something wrong regardless fo the facts.
Why should Bush admit any mistakes to you people? All you would do is put it in the next commercial bashing him with it. And it would solve absolutely nothing - which is the overruling factor in all of this.

Do you think mistakes have been made that have not been corrected? The last remaining mistake I see is Fallujah, we should obliterate the place, but on this very board we've got people bitching that we've killed TOO many people there already.

Multiply this by an exponential factor for each and every decision made during war, and even the overwhelmingly successful war we just waged in Iraq becomes an armchair quarterback's wet dream. God bless John Kerry, master of every-sides.

"I heard on the internet Bush oursourced the war in Tora Bora. I don't know where the fuck that is, but it sounds BAD, huh huh Bush is such a stupid ass."

You guys know Kerry was all for this outsourcing when it going on, and before Bush was banging the war drums for Iraq, Kerry was all for taking out Saddam the same way... but that's ok, he's grounded himself as the anti-war candidate now, errr I mean the do-it-as-soon-as-the-polls-say-it-is-ok candidate.

You differentiate Bush and Kerry saying one only acts the role of a believer but the other is a true one, and I am wondering what proof you have, regarding either one of their faith.
Kerry is not grounded in his beliefs, if you can't see that by now, you might as well be sleeping on the train tracks with earmuffs on. Simply put, he says whatever is good to say at the moment.

There's alot I don't like about Bush. Sure, I don't like his spending. But who fucking cares about a deficit that is less than 2% of our GDP during a time of the lowest interests rates - DURING A WAR?

Is anyone having to buy bonds to support the government? Is anyone having to ration food? Is anyone being asked to grow a garden to eat from so you could support the war effort?

None of the above.

I honestly cannot see what people like about Kerry. I have TRIED to see what it is about him, and cannot see it. Afterall, there's about a 50% chance that he's going to be our next president, and I wanted to see what we could be in store for.

And...for everything he's said I've agreed with, he's come along and told someone else something entirely opposite.

How can you vote for someone that is so openly pandering to get power from you? He takes you all for fools, and you're lapping it up.

LMAO ROFL Laughter is a great thing, glad I could entertain you.

LOL funny one Fil I am curious though, I said DCorps isn't what I consider independent, you seem to agree. What is so funny about that? The two of us agreeing on something?

Shouldn't you be starting a thread about Kerry getting a dishonorable discharge? :)

Fil

edit: and you never addressed the simple fact that the lie told by Cheney is simply not feasible. How can you conduct a poll in one hour?

"Why should Bush admit any mistakes to you people? All you would do is put it in the next commercial bashing him with it. And it would solve absolutely nothing - which is the overruling factor in all of this."

Once Clinton admitted to making a mistake, it was done over with for me. Bush fucked up, if he said "my bad" i would forget it happened.

Why should Bush admit any mistakes to you people?
Not my words:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Fil

How can you conduct a poll in one hour?Oh I don't know. Let's say 30 minutes to make up the question and answer script. Then let's have 60 people connected with a dial tone, automated phone bank database generating phone numbers to all area codes, assume 20 seconds per phone call, could have reached a maximum of 5400 people in the remaining 30 minutes. Figure a quarter of those were successful hits, and you have a poll sample of 1350 people. That's a good sample, and an answer to your question.

Bush fucked up
Where?

Once Clinton admitted to making a mistake, it was done over with for me.

After I've raped a woman, purjured myself before a grand jury, and sexually harrassed who knows how many interns, I'll ask you for forgiveness Greystone, then all will be good.

Oh I don't know. Let's say 30 minutes to make up the question and answer script. Then let's have 60 people connected with a dial tone, automated phone bank database generating phone numbers to all area codes, assume 20 seconds per phone call, could have reached a maximum of 5400 people in the remaining 30 minutes. Figure a quarter of those were successful hits, and you have a poll sample of 1350 people. That's a good sample, and an answer to your question.
After I've raped a woman
Though both of these things say completely different things, they are perfect examples of the completely over the board, disconnected from reality viewpoints that are losing GWB this election.

Fil

over the board, disconnected from reality viewpointsI find it over the board, disconnected from reality that you can't admit you were wrong about the poll actually. Why don't you admit you were wrong? Which assumption was I wrong about?

I also find it over the board, disconnected from reality and lacking of any rationale whatsoever that people want Bush to admit to a mistake for no apparent reason than to satisfy some hurt feelings they may have. "Clinton did it, why not Bush?" wtf?

The successes we've had under Bush should speak for themselves, but people are too fucking blinded to see it.

Bigger coalition? Which division of troops was France going to contribute? That's a tough choice, considering they don't have one. You want a coalition? Every single Middle Eastern country, except Iran, has captured, or killed Al queda members in this war. Never before have they cooperated so openly with us. What's a coalition matter anyway? It's just a talking point you picked up from Kerry, even though it didn't matter a damned bit that we had almost the entire world supporting us in Gulf Storm, but Kerry still voted against it.

You people don't know what you want, and neither does Kerry. Maybe that's why he appeals to you. You're both clueless.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_110104/content/rush_is_right.guest.html


Everyone should read this. But I know few will. Thanks to those that do.

Such anger. Admit I was wrong? You can't conduct a reasonable poll in that manner. It takes Zogby 12 hours to get 1300 responses. 20 seconds a call? Completely non-sensical.

I'm trying to not bash Bush because 1) if he somehow wins, I hope he does better and 2) if he loses, as it now appears, I hope the country can move forward. But both you and I know mistakes have been made. And the successes are few. You simply need to look at the number of Republicans who either refuse to support him or endorse Kerry to know that.

Fil

Well, I prefer McCain over either of the two main folks running and he is not going to be on the ballot. I cannot vote for Bush, for a multitude of reasons. I really do not like Kerry, but I am more comfortable in taking a chance with a new administration and cabinet members than I am with the current set in whom I feel no faith and have no respect.

I will just be happy to have this election over, and hope that there are wiser folks in both parties that will work to heal the divisions this election has caused in this country.

By the way, who was the person accused of rape that Akipt was referring to (I am assuming it was a politician, based on the thread), because I do not recall any accusations of rape being discussed in any national newspapers or on television news programs regarding any high level politicians in the last 30 years.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_110104/content/rush_is_right.guest.html


Everyone should read this. But I know few will. Thanks to those that do.

Probably because of the assclown that is in the url.

Bylimet - he meant Clinton, hence the perjury and intern thing.

Fil

"The successes we've had under Bush "

Where? All i see is, a failed electoral system (aka the antiquated electoral college),a HUGE deficit, a war over WMD no one can find, the highest gas prices i have ever had to pay, huge unemployment rate up every year (in my state atleast, ironically run by...omg a bush, Jeb Bush), the highest medical insurence payments i ever had to pay, our education system has further made us look like retards to the world.


The only benefit i can see is interest rates were good, but my god they had to be or the country would of fallen into the a depression that would of made the first one seem like a picnic. And technically interest rates have nothing to do with the president or his party.


As far as Rush goes (cracks me up Clinton is bashed for his morality, but Rush is fine cause apparently adultery is bad, but drug abuse is ok) He said:

""You have to fight, even for the people who are wrong. The people are too blind or too uninformed or too uneducated or too ignorant or too whatever to see the threat that faces them because they refuse to take a look at it. That's the job that we all have. That's what you do when you fight for your country: You fight for everybody in it.""

I see a threat and i see it not fixed in the 4 years Bush has been around. We got Saddam yay, his Saudi buddies he is finaicially in bed with are happy, but Bin Laden is still out there. So I say lets give Kerry a try, cause rather not let Bush have another 4 years of failure.

As far as Rush goes (cracks me up Clinton is bashed for his morality, but Rush is fine cause apparently adultery is bad, but drug abuse is ok) He said:

Dont forget, he recently got divorced for the third time!

I believe he was accusing Clinton of rape. Akipt does that, we all just get used to his hyperbole.




Anyways, Osg, I read the Limbaugh thing, and it was so terribly asinine that I honestly am hurting. The entire argument could be reversed just as easily. To call the democrats arrogant, with mean spirited bile or whatever the fuck he said is laughable in comparison. I don't know if you saw the DNC and the RNC, but I guarantee you that one was a bit more negative than the other.


I don't pretend to know too much about Rush though, could you perhaps tell me any service record he has in the military, and then contrast it with the, albeit relatively short, record of Kerry? He makes an awful lot of hype about how people don't understand their freedom and aren't ready to defend it, so I'm guessing he served?

I realize I forgot to respond to the original point of this thread. Kerry made his statement within an hour of the video being released. Do you really think an hour is enough time to conduct a poll? The poll referenced by the article was done by Democracy Corps, while not the most independent polling organization, it isn't the Kerry campaign. Yet another example of distortion of the truth by the Bush campaign. Little wonder this was the headline on Drudge.

Fil

The dem's aren't denying they polled for the Usama tape....

Jessica Simpson blamed the band.

Dont forget, he recently got divorced for the third time!


We all make bad mistakes with young women.

3 times.

Osg - I had read Rush's article before you posted it, do I get a special thank you? I watch the freeper board, too. :) The main problem with it is he bases pretty much his entire thesis on the fact that Usama is out stumping for Kerry, which I've already given my opinion on that.

Bise - Yes, they did poll. The accusation though is that they polled so they John Kerry knew what to say about it. Along with the fact that the poll wasn't completed until the next day, it's just non-sense.

Fil

Rush avoided the draft as a young man due to the presence of an anal cyst. He has never served in any capacity.