So we are in an economic crisis.

Our infrastructure needs some serious repairs.

The Iraq war rages on with no end in sight.

Afghanistan known as the forgotten war is quickly becoming a very serious situation.

Congress is spending our money on whether Roger Clemens took steroids because we all know that if he did and we find out about it all of our problems will be solved and the world will be a better place because Roger Clemens steroid use or non use makes a huge difference to us because it fucking matters.

/rant off

So we are in an economic crisis.

Our infrastructure needs some serious repairs.

The Iraq war rages on with no end in sight.

Afghanistan known as the forgotten war is quickly becoming a very serious situation.

Congress is spending our money on whether Roger Clemens took steroids because we all know that if he did and we find out about it all of our problems will be solved and the world will be a better place because Roger Clemens steroid use or non use makes a huge difference to us because it fucking matters.

/rant off

/feel your pain
/sigh

Added for future historians, today saw the death of the terrorist who was behind the Marine barracks bombing in Beirut. He was killed in Damscus by a bomb, I believe.

I will be tipping a beer and toasting his demise, shortly.

Added for future historians, today saw the death of the terrorist who was behind the Marine barracks bombing in Beirut. He was killed in Damscus by a bomb, I believe.

I will be tipping a beer and toasting his demise, shortly.

Oh just FYI.. Bombing a Marine Barracks does not = Terrorism.

Bombing a bus with civilians is terrorism.

Oh just FYI.. Bombing a Marine Barracks does not = Terrorism.

Bombing a bus with civilians is terrorism.

Actually, he was considered to be one of the worst terrorists other than OBL, having been involved in the planning, and at times carrying out, of many "terrorist" acts, other than the Beirut bombing.

Actually, he was considered to be one of the worst terrorists other than OBL, having been involved in the planning, and at times carrying out, of many "terrorist" acts, other than the Beirut bombing.

Ah, well if he purposely killed civilians then true. All I heard him connected to was this attack, but havent read too far into it.

Oh just FYI.. Bombing a Marine Barracks does not = Terrorism.

Bombing a bus with civilians is terrorism.


It was terrorism plain and simple. The Marines were there to keep the peace. During that time in Beirut Marines on duty with the 1st Bn 8th Marines (who were the battalion on station) were issued five rounds of ammunition each and not allowed to chamber a round until they received direct permission from Battalion HQ. This is why this incident occurred.

And also, the SOB who was blown up today should have been back in '83 but that military god Reagan pulled a cut and run.

/rant 2 off

It was terrorism plain and simple. The Marines were there to keep the peace. During that time in Beirut Marines on duty with the 1st Bn 8th Marines (who were the battalion on station) were issued five rounds of ammunition each and not allowed to chamber a round until they received direct permission from Battalion HQ. This is why this incident occurred.

And also, the SOB who was blown up today should have been back in '83 but that military god Reagan pulled a cut and run.

/rant 2 off

Well hold on now.. I don't argue that the man deserved to live, or that you shouldn't have wanted him to die, but if a person cannot attack civilians... and they cannot attack military, then who the hell can they attack?

I gotta tell you though Rover, most places around the world never see our soldiers as "Peacekeepers" so perhaps there is a disconnect between what we think we were doing in Beirut, and what they believed.

Jedd, you might want to find out a little more info on the Beirut bombing before you opine on this subject.
but if a terrorist cannot attack civilians... and they cannot attack military, then who the hell can they attack?Corrected but left unanswered. You really should be able to figure that one out on your own.

Jedd, you might want to find out a little more info on the Beirut bombing before you opine on this subject.
Corrected but left unanswered. You really should be able to figure that one out on your own.

Well if it was indeed this man a member of Hezbollah in the future who did this... then lets analyze why?

Analysts believe a major factor leading Iran to participate in the attacks on the barracks was America's support for Iraq (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq) in the Iran-Iraq War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Iraq_War), particularly its extending of $2 billion in trade credit to Iraq while halting arms shipments to Iran. A few weeks before the bombing Iran warned that providing armaments to Iran's enemies would provoke retaliatory action.

If a group backed by Iran attacked and killed soldiers... is it a terrorist attack?

Your answer of course will be yes, but then I ask you... What is the difference between bombing the US barracks in Beirut, and bombing Iraqi Infrastructure, Barracks, Air fields, Power Plants.....

Also... Seeing as how it was mostly a civil war between Muslims and Christians in Lebanon... Do you understand how U.S. Soldiers may have been seen as Christian Soldiers?

Well if it was indeed this man a member of Hezbollah in the future who did this... then lets analyze why?



If a group backed by Iran attacked and killed soldiers... is it a terrorist attack?

Your answer of course will be yes, but then I ask you... What is the difference between bombing the US barracks in Beirut, and bombing Iraqi Infrastructure, Barracks, Air fields, Power Plants.....

Also... Seeing as how it was mostly a civil war between Muslims and Christians in Lebanon... Do you understand how U.S. Soldiers may have been seen as Christian Soldiers?

If a group backed by Iran attacked and killed soldiers... is it a terrorist attack?


Honestly, it really doesn't matter what the attack is called. It was an attack that killed alot of young Americans who NEVER fired a shot without being fired upon first, I assure you of that.

Your answer of course will be yes, but then I ask you... What is the difference between bombing the US barracks in Beirut, and bombing Iraqi Infrastructure, Barracks, Air fields, Power Plants.....

There is no difference in bombing any of the above, it all kills young people. The difference comes in the form of we had not shown any aggression towards either side in Lebanon.

Furthermore as an FYI to you there were a few very minor incidents involving US Marines and Multi-National forces in Beirut with the Christian Militias however they were settled peacably, now looking at the various Moslem factions and Druse Militia they unfortunately decided to take things one step beyond and they dearly paid for it with retaliation from Naval gunfire, Marine corp artillery and limited air strikes.

Now mind you I must say that those muslim militias had some real brass balls with firing on us as they had school buses with children about 5 meters behind them, but hey, you know how us US Marines are I bet you can't guess what we did.

Honestly, it really doesn't matter what the attack is called. It was an attack that killed alot of young Americans who NEVER fired a shot without being fired upon first, I assure you of that.



There is no difference in bombing any of the above, it all kills young people. The difference comes in the form of we had not shown any aggression towards either side in Lebanon.

I find this logic apalling...

Why should they care if the people they are retaliating against are young men or whatnot. Fact is, if a country aided our enemies we would kill their young man and feel justified in doing so. I don't care to get into this subject any further, but your logic is indeed flawed and biased.

Why does it matter that they showed no Aggression in Lebanon. If Iraq had bases in other countries we would have taken those out as well. Please spare me.

I find this logic apalling...

Why should they care if the people they are retaliating against are young men or whatnot. Fact is, if a country aided our enemies we would kill their young man and feel justified in doing so. I don't care to get into this subject any further, but your logic is indeed flawed and biased.

Why does it matter that they showed no Aggression in Lebanon. If Iraq had bases in other countries we would have taken those out as well. Please spare me.

Thank you for comparing 1983 to 2003, once again Jedd you show a total lack of intelligent logic.

Because you idiot it was 20 years before Iraq, and WHAT THE FUCK DOES 1983 LEBANON HAVE TO DO WITH 2003 IRAQ. I guess the members of Hezbollah were psychics who knew what was coming in 2003....and you wonder why.....


You also missed an important part of my post involving school buses and children, please comment on that also.

Thank you for comparing 1983 to 2003, once again Jedd you show a total lack of intelligent logic.

Because you idiot it was 20 years before Iraq, and WHAT THE FUCK DOES 1983 LEBANON HAVE TO DO WITH 2003 IRAQ. I guess the members of Hezbollah were psychics who knew what was coming in 2003....and you wonder why.....


You also missed an important part of my post involving school buses and children, please comment on that also.

What are you even talking about Rover?

Hezbollah and IRAN... What was happening in 1983 smart guy?

The Iraq sentence was in regards to how we would act in a similar situation.

My logic is very intelligent Rover...

If AMERICA aided IRAQ against IRAN in 1983... then an attack on a MILITARY Barracks in LEBANON would be VALID and NOT A TERRORIST ACT.

Everyone uses proxies... or have you forgot the Cold war?

You also missed an important part of my post involving school buses and children, please comment on that also.

Please show me Hezbollah fighters hiding behind school buses and children... We are talking about Hezbollah not Hamas.

Hezbollah builds those schools and buys those school buses for the Lebanese people... Hezbollah operates Hospitals for them and provides many of them with jobs.

Six countries, including the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) and the United Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom), officially list Hezbollah, or its external security arm, as a terrorist organization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist_organization), though its designation as such is not unanimous among world powers (perhaps most notably, the European Union).Most in the Arab (including Christians) and Muslim worlds regard Hezbollah as a legitimate resistance movement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistance_movement).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah

Funny how only 6 countries in the WORLD consider Hezbollah a terrorist organization.

Also...


Hezbollah alongside with Amal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amal_Movement) is one of two major political parties in Lebanon that represent the Shiite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shi%27a_Islam) Muslims (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Lebanon#Muslims). It holds 14 of the 128 seats in Lebanon's Parliament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_of_Lebanon) and is a member of the Resistance and Development Bloc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistance_and_Development_Bloc).

Hezbollah organizes an extensive social development program and runs hospitals, news services, and educational facilities. Its Reconstruction Campaign ('Jihad Al Binna (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad_Al_Binna)') is responsible for numerous economic and infrastructure development projects in Lebanon.

Ending Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel)'s occupation of Southern Lebanon was the primary focus of Hezbollah's early activities. Israel had become militarily involved in Lebanon in combat with (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Litani) the Palestine Liberation Organization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Liberation_Organization), which had moved into Southern Lebanon after being ousted from Jordan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_in_Jordan). The PLO had been attacking Israel from Southern Lebanon in the lead-up to the 1982 Lebanon War, and Israel had invaded and occupied Southern Lebanon and besieged Beirut (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beirut).


Cry all you want about some dead American soldiers, but please lose the illusion that their deaths mean more then the deaths of over 1 million Iranians in the Iran/Iraq War in which Iraq was aided by the US... Or the thousands of dead lebanese citizens at the hands of Israel. Both of which are legitmate reasons to attack a MILITARY base and kill soldiers without being labeled a terrorist.

Please show me Hezbollah fighters hiding behind school buses and children...

Unfortunately I cannot show you Hezbollah or Amal militia fighters or any moslem standing in front of a school bus full of children shooting at US Marines or other Multi-National forces that were in Lebanon in 1983.

I can't show you because I was pinned on the ground hoping the orange dirt in the sand bags was enough to keep the rounds and shrapnel from the 23mm AA gun on the back of the Datsun pick up off of me, and photographing it was about the last thing on my mind. But believe me, they did it.

Cry all you want about some dead American soldiers, but please lose the illusion that their deaths mean more then the deaths of over 1 million Iranians in the Iran/Iraq War in which Iraq was aided by the US... Or the thousands of dead lebanese citizens at the hands of Israel. Both of which are legitmate reasons to attack a MILITARY base and kill soldiers without being labeled a terrorist

I stopped crying about it years ago, but I did cry quite a bit at one time, it's too bad you never shed a tear for any of them, they were some great guys. I knew some of them from the day they hit Parris Island. I remember them standing on the yellow footprints with long 70's hair and I remember them as their bodies were pulled out of the rubble of the terminal.

Hezbollah builds those schools and buys those school buses for the Lebanese people... Hezbollah operates Hospitals for them and provides many of them with jobs.

Oh...thanks for explaining why it is ok for them to use them as shields...I can sleep now.

Jedd, all I have to say to you is....Your mama is so ugly that when she tried to enter the ugly contest they said she couldn't because they don't allow professionals!!! Asshole

Jedd does not understand the concept of crying for Americans, because they are not his people. He may have been born in this country, but he is not one of us, by any stretch of the imagination.

These forums are his outlet for spewing his anti-American diatribes in a safe and non-threatening environment. If he were to talk openly on the street, or most any public place shy of a mosque, in the manner he does here, he would face more than a few lines of typed anger, surely.

I just consider him nothing more than another of Ahmanutjob's foot soldiers who spits on his citizenship in the same manner as his comrades would spit on our flag.

What are you even talking about Rover?

Hezbollah and IRAN... What was happening in 1983 smart guy?

The Iraq sentence was in regards to how we would act in a similar situation.

My logic is very intelligent Rover...

If AMERICA aided IRAQ against IRAN in 1983... then an attack on a MILITARY Barracks in LEBANON would be VALID and NOT A TERRORIST ACT.

Everyone uses proxies... or have you forgot the Cold war?


What was happening in 1983? Well lets see....first, you werent even born yet.

The cold war....hmmmm....was that the thing involving the Soviets and the iron curtain thing?

Jedd, you are challenging someone who was a direct witness to these things, think really hard before you shoot off your little smart assed mouth.

Jedd is good at stiring up trouble on this forum. Much like Bylimet said, he has no connection to this country what so ever. I will not respond to any of his posts any more because they are the same old same old. Don't let him bother you Rover, he is useless.

i dont know how your sadness for losing compatriots in beirut qualifies you in any way to designate who are and who arent terrorists, perhaps you could explain? id put it to you, that if the beirut bombing was a terrorist act, how was the israeli bombings of lebanon not? how was your bombings of iraq not? because the 'good guys' did it? wtf is wrong with you.

WTF is wrong with you pea brain. Your on an American forum of course we are going to cheer when the bad guy dies.

i have no idea what youre talking about, but ok buddy.

i dont know how your sadness for losing compatriots in beirut qualifies you in any way to designate who are and who arent terrorists, perhaps you could explain? id put it to you, that if the beirut bombing was a terrorist act, how was the israeli bombings of lebanon not? how was your bombings of iraq not? because the 'good guys' did it? wtf is wrong with you.

I guess you need to re-read my posts over the past few years, I am not a supporter of our actions in Iraq nor have I ever been. I would actually be very open to and supportive of criminal charges being filed against Bush/Cheney for the Iraq war.

As far as the Israeli incursion into lebanon in 1982, I do know it was an action taken with a measure of self protection, however I do not agree with the incursion of 2006 and I blame both Israel and Hezbollah for the whole stupid thing.

An act of terror is usually done with the specific intention of harming civilians and non-combatants, lets not forget the bombing of the US embassy in Beirut also occurred in 1983 and I certainly don't recall it being filled with infantry soldiers.

In 1983 the US Marines and the Multi-National forces were in Lebanon to separate warring factions, I assure you we attacked NO ONE and were quite undeserving of the attacks perpetrated on us.

Now, go re-read my post history and then ask this of yourself...wtf is wrong with me?

since when is an act of terror defined as being against civilians? is an act of terror not just an act designed to induce terror in the enemy? hasnt pretty much every army used acts of terror against their enemy, be it towards civilians or military targets?
and if an act of terror indeed is defined as being against civilians, how is israel not a terrorist state? their repeated fucking-over of the palestinian population is just that, an act of terror.

and, not that i in any way support the beirut bombing, or any other heinous acts, but jedd is correct in saying you were waging war, by proxy, on iran, and thus they (hezbollah being iranian) did have a casus belli, didnt they? i would pretty much say that for a peacekeeping mission to work, the party keeping peace must be neutral, and you certainly were not.

also, might want to note who blocked any security council resolution calling for a cease fire in the 2006 israel lebanon war.

Unfortunately I cannot show you Hezbollah or Amal militia fighters or any moslem standing in front of a school bus full of children shooting at US Marines or other Multi-National forces that were in Lebanon in 1983.

I can't show you because I was pinned on the ground hoping the orange dirt in the sand bags was enough to keep the rounds and shrapnel from the 23mm AA gun on the back of the Datsun pick up off of me, and photographing it was about the last thing on my mind. But believe me, they did it.



I stopped crying about it years ago, but I did cry quite a bit at one time, it's too bad you never shed a tear for any of them, they were some great guys. I knew some of them from the day they hit Parris Island. I remember them standing on the yellow footprints with long 70's hair and I remember them as their bodies were pulled out of the rubble of the terminal.



Oh...thanks for explaining why it is ok for them to use them as shields...I can sleep now.

Jedd, all I have to say to you is....Your mama is so ugly that when she tried to enter the ugly contest they said she couldn't because they don't allow professionals!!! Asshole

When you are fighting against an enemy who is in their own country, don't complain about the school bus that might be in the background of the fight. Bottom line in any conflict is this... If the foreign force was not in the country, the school bus and the children in it would not be at risk. The responsibility falls upon us to stay the hell out or prepare to deal with what happens.

Hezbollah is a legitimate resistance force, and for some reason if they are resisting us they are terrorists. Love the holier then thou mentality.

Keep insulting me, but you prove more and more how wrong you are with your inability to keep a cool head and discuss the goddamn subject we are discussing.

A US soldiers is seen by more countries as a hostile enemy force, then Hezbollah. What say you?

Jedd does not understand the concept of crying for Americans, because they are not his people. He may have been born in this country, but he is not one of us, by any stretch of the imagination.

These forums are his outlet for spewing his anti-American diatribes in a safe and non-threatening environment. If he were to talk openly on the street, or most any public place shy of a mosque, in the manner he does here, he would face more than a few lines of typed anger, surely.

I just consider him nothing more than another of Ahmanutjob's foot soldiers who spits on his citizenship in the same manner as his comrades would spit on our flag.

I cried on 9/11, I cry when innocent people die. You do not know me and your completely hilarious deduction is laughable at best.

If what I do is Anti-American, then you need to wake up and realize that at least 1/3rd of America is Anti-American, and that number grows daily. Your silly idea that you can win an argument against me by attempting to diminish me personally fails miserably. Until you have the capability to actually discuss a point without resorting to insulting me, you quite frankly lose.

"Anger and insults are the common replacement for those with no proof of what they desperately want to believe."-Freud

Jedd is good at stiring up trouble on this forum. Much like Bylimet said, he has no connection to this country what so ever. I will not respond to any of his posts any more because they are the same old same old. Don't let him bother you Rover, he is useless.

The useless one here would be you... An American cheerleader who not only doesn't know jack squat about anything we discuss, but also cannot hold back his filthy mouth when discussing said issues.

You are the useless one Ibudin. Now run along to Berkely and pick a fight with the people that want the Marine recruiters out.

Reagan got all wobbly and pulled out after that attack.

Reagan was an emboldener.

An act of terror is usually done with the specific intention of harming civilians and non-combatants, lets not forget the bombing of the US embassy in Beirut also occurred in 1983 and I certainly don't recall it being filled with infantry soldiers.

Yet you criminilize even the act of terror against enemy soldiers. You have no possible way of dropping your bias for one moment. We aided Iraq against Iran, and the Iranians fought back. Like I said... Go cry about 100 or so dead soldiers while Iran thanks to our support of Sadaam has to mourn over a million. Go cry me a river about some Hostages Iran took from an embassy, while Lebanese citizens were murdered with cluster bombs by Israel with our blessings and support.

In 1983 the US Marines and the Multi-National forces were in Lebanon to separate warring factions, I assure you we attacked NO ONE and were quite undeserving of the attacks perpetrated on us.

If your enemy is in another country do they stop being your enemy?

Jedd's perspective isn't totally without merit. Iran had given fair warning, and the American military leadership at the time, ignored it.

However, I can't condone the cowardly act of attacking Marines who were in no way directly engaged in combat.

I guess the problem here is not realizing that Muslims tend to blur the lines of thier countries. While we were not acting aggressive in Lebanon, Iran saw an opportunity to strike back at the U.S. for backing Iraq in the war against them.....

Maybe the "terrorism" part fits when you aren't even sure where your enemy comes from? Iranian proxies attacking American Marines in Lebanon for backing Iraq.

I do think, however, Reagan should have come down on them like a ton of bricks....

Jedd's perspective isn't totally without merit. Iran had given fair warning, and the American military leadership at the time, ignored it.

However, I can't condone the cowardly act of attacking Marines who were in no way directly engaged in combat.

I guess the problem here is not realizing that Muslims tend to blur the lines of thier countries. While we were not acting aggressive in Lebanon, Iran saw an opportunity to strike back at the U.S. for backing Iraq in the war against them.....

Maybe the "terrorism" part fits when you aren't even sure where your enemy comes from? Iranian proxies attacking American Marines in Lebanon for backing Iraq.

I would have to think that instead of applying terrorism to that you would just call it a "Surprise"

So, do you think attacking Iraq fits the same in reverse?
After all, if the Muslim World can blur the lines of the countries involved, why can't the West?
All I have ever heard is Iraq has nothing to do with 9-11....
Perhaps it does?

So, do you think attacking Iraq fits the same in reverse?
After all, if the Muslim World can blur the lines of the countries involved, why can't the West?
All I have ever heard is Iraq has nothing to do with 9-11....
Perhaps it does?

Ah but that would take evidence to prove wouldn't it?

Iran did have proof that the US was helping Iraq.

A little different no?

Well, if you want to go that route, there are plenty of stories about Saddan's regime helping certain members of Al Qaeda. Most have been dismissed, but a few seemed to have panned out, espically the one about Al Zarqawi....

Well, if you want to go that route, there are plenty of stories about Saddan's regime helping certain members of Al Qaeda. Most have been dismissed, but a few seemed to have panned out, espically the one about Al Zarqawi....

If it could be proven... And I don't mean proven like the presentation of WMD's in Iraq that we were "proven" existed, then heck yea.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13195017/

Well, he died there....

That proof enough for ya?

The al-Zarqawi story never "panned out." He hid out in the no-fly zone. We knew where he was, and the military presented Bush with a trio of plans to axe him, none of which were acted upon. He then murdered hundreds til finally meeting a well-deserved end. Attempts to tie him to Saddam were unconvincing at the very best and nothing on the order of the support we lent Iraq (to whatever degree our support amounted to -- several nations sold Iraq weapons).

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13195017/

Well, he died there....

That proof enough for ya?

I am sure that terrorists could die just as easily in America, but it wouldn't implicate America as having aided them.

If proof was found that the actual government was aiding them then yes, that would be good evidence.

All estimates are that he came to Iraq to take part in fighting Americans. So the after the fact corpse showing doesn't prove much.

When the United States launched its air war inside Afghanistan, on October 7, 2001, al-Zarqawi joined forces with al-Qaeda and the Taliban for the first time. He and his Jund al-Sham fought in and around Herat and Kandahar. Al-Zarqawi was wounded in an American air strike—not in the leg, as U.S. officials claimed for two years, but in the chest, when the ceiling of the building in which he was operating collapsed on him. Neither did he join Osama bin Laden in the eastern mountains of Tora Bora, as U.S. officials have also said. Bin Laden took only his most trusted fighters to Tora Bora, and al-Zarqawi was not one of them.

In December 2001, accompanied by some 300 fighters from Jund al-Sham, al-Zarqawi left Afghanistan once again, and entered Iran.

During the next fourteen months, al-Zarqawi based himself primarily in Iran and in the autonomous area of Kurdistan, in northern Iraq, traveling from time to time to Syria and to the Ayn al-Hilwah Palestinian refugee camp in the south of Lebanon—a camp that, according to the former Jordanian intelligence official, became his main recruiting ground.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200607/zarqawi/4

So he was in Iraq, as the intelligence reports showed, as well as Iran.....

ter·ror·ism n. The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

i dont see civilians in that definition.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200607/zarqawi/4

So he was in Iraq, as the intelligence reports showed, as well as Iran.....

Yea he traveled into different countries, this shows no evidence of support on the behalf of those countries in question.

ter·ror·ism n. The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

i dont see civilians in that definition.

To know if someone is a terrorist or is simply fighting a war against you you need to be in their head and hear their thoughts... Unfortunately since that is impossible in most cases, you must analyze who they kill.

If they are killing Americans is the only concern of mine. Call them the enemy or terrorists makes no difference to me...its a name given to a group of people who I dislike. Killing Americans = bad...get it? They kill our marines, peace keeping troops, bible thumpers, what ever...they are the enemy. I don't need to understand why they do it, because I have no control of that, bad guy dies in a bombing, I am going to cheer, as the American cheerleader I am.

Yea he traveled into different countries, this shows no evidence of support on the behalf of those countries in question.

Doesn't show any hinderance, as well...

The friend of my enemy is.......my enemy?

So if they are killing Americans, they are the enemy, whether the attack be retaliatory or with the intention of intimidating or coercing society or the government.

Incidentally, Jedd, do you think that just because the color of your skin, they wouldn't kill you just as quickly for being an American?

If they are killing Americans is the only concern of mine. Call them the enemy or terrorists makes no difference to me...its a name given to a group of people who I dislike. Killing Americans = bad...get it? They kill our marines, peace keeping troops, bible thumpers, what ever...they are the enemy. I don't need to understand why they do it, because I have no control of that, bad guy dies in a bombing, I am going to cheer, as the American cheerleader I am.

Thus you fail to realize that our actions invoke response, therefore the Americans you wish to avenge die because of our actions.

If we acted differently you wouldn't need to be wanting revenge since those people wouldn't be dead in the first place. Cheer all ya want man, but I stopped cheering for peoples deaths a long time ago.

Doesn't show any hinderance, as well...

Have you seen the landscape in which they traverse to travel from country to country?

The friend of my enemy is.......my enemy?

Welcome to the realization of why the Marines had 2 reasons to be killed in Beirut. Friends of Israel = Enemy. Enemy of Iran = Enemy of their friends. We cannot monopolize the right to kill people.

So if they are killing Americans, they are the enemy, whether the attack be retaliatory or with the intention of intimidating or coercing society or the government.

No one said they are not the United States enemies. However people seem to think that killing people who retaliate against us will bring us peace, when in fact it will bring more retaliation. Until someone decides to be the bigger man and end the circle of killing. We all suffer.

Incidentally, Jedd, do you think that just because the color of your skin, they wouldn't kill you just as quickly for being an American?

I am not afraid of them.

Have you seen the landscape in which they traverse to travel from country to country?

Yes, I was in the Middle East during the first Gulf War, and I know it's not impossible to keep tabs on who enters and leavees the country. I was intimately familiar with the border between Turkey and Northern Iraq, having crossed it more than 70 times.



Welcome to the realization of why the Marines had 2 reasons to be killed in Beirut. Friends of Israel = Enemy. Enemy of Iran = Enemy of their friends. We cannot monopolize the right to kill people.

You forgot a 3rd; Because some Imam decided to lie to some schmuck who had nothing more going for himself than to blow himself up with the promise if 72 virgins in Heaven.



No one said they are not the United States enemies. However people seem to think that killing people who retaliate against us will bring us peace, when in fact it will bring more retaliation. Until someone decides to be the bigger man and end the circle of killing. We all suffer.
Funny, when Israel tried that (being the bigger man, and give up some land and stop fighting back) they got more rocket attacks



I am not afraid of them.
You shouldn't be afraid of them, but you should be aware that you would be a prize to them; an infidel that others in the Middle East can visually identify with, who would make a great addition to the "Top 10 Infidel Beheading Video Countdown" show.

You forgot a 3rd; Because some Imam decided to lie to some schmuck who had nothing more going for himself than to blow himself up with the promise if 72 virgins in Heaven.

It must be convenient to make yourself comfortable by thinking that they only kill for virgins in Heaven... Too bad you are mistakingly generalizing the idiots from Al Queda with every other Muslim resistance group.

Hezbollah doesn't fight for virgins in heaven. They fight for their land, people, and freedom. Hard to believe huh? cause they must be animals since they arent like us.




Funny, when Israel tried that (being the bigger man, and give up some land and stop fighting back) they got more rocket attacks

Some land? How about all the land? So now you condone people who steal something as long as they give a little back? That makes someone a bigger man? Ludicrous

You shouldn't be afraid of them, but you should be aware that you would be a prize to them; an infidel that others in the Middle East can visually identify with, who would make a great addition to the "Top 10 Infidel Beheading Video Countdown" show.

Hezbollahs goal would not be to behead me. Hezbollah already achieved its goal with someone like me. I believe in their cause and do not consider them terrorists. What is funny is that you once again are showing a complete lack of intelligence and show your continued bias by generalizing all muslim resistance groups.

Please give me links that prove Hezbollah has been beheading Americans.

You are just too much lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombing

No video, just a picture of a cloud.....
And if you think some of those Marines didn't lose thier heads in that explosion, think again....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombing

No video, just a picture of a cloud.....
And if you think some of those Marines didn't lose thier heads in that explosion, think again....

Sixee are you serious?

I am talking about innocent people... not Soldiers.

Soldiers are always fair game in war.

Dr. Walid Phares on Hezbollah:

http://www.walidphares.com/artman/publish/article_1592.shtml

I would like to hear your impression of the article Jedd.

Dr. Walid Phares on Hezbollah:

http://www.walidphares.com/artman/publish/article_1592.shtml

I would like to hear your impression of the article Jedd.

After 2 paragraphs I saw the IRGC and Hezbollah openly referred to biasly as terrorist organizations, I can already tell you this is not a unbiased and balanced article, but I will continue reading it for a laugh now.

Dr. Walid Phares on Hezbollah:

http://www.walidphares.com/artman/publish/article_1592.shtml

I would like to hear your impression of the article Jedd.

After reading that article I ask you one question. Where is the mans evidence of any of his claims whatsoever?

I can also write such an article and make many rediculous claims and post it here, but how does that give my points merit?

Here is some info about the author.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/7c/WTSTownhallFOXNews.jpg/340px-WTSTownhallFOXNews.jpg


Smith, who relied heavily on his own experiences in Lebanon, local informants, and independent sources, said that he should have placed a caveat on his reports as he had only witnessed a fraction of what he had reported in those two blog posts. NRO editor apologised to it readers and commenced an investigation into the blogging reports, they concluded by saying that;

I apologize to all of our readers. We should have required Smith to clearly source all of his original reporting from Lebanon. Smith let himself become susceptible to spin by those taking him around Lebanon, so his reporting from there should be read with that knowledge. (We are attaching this note to all his Lebanon reporting.) This was an editing failure as much as it was a reporting failure. We let him down, and we let you down, and we’re taking steps to make sure it doesn’t happen again.

– Kathryn Jean Lopez, Editor, National Review Online,

So when Hezbollah was randomly lobbing small artillary fire over the boarder into neighboorhoods that wasnt terrorism, and the 6 nations as you put it that recognized that as terrorist acts were wrong?

[quote]To know if someone is a terrorist or is simply fighting a war against you you need to be in their head and hear their thoughts... Unfortunately since that is impossible in most cases, you must analyze who they kill.[/quote[

but dont they openly admit what they are thinking in released internet videos and public speaking?

So when Hezbollah was randomly lobbing small artillary fire over the boarder into neighboorhoods that wasnt terrorism, and the 6 nations as you put it that recognized that as terrorist acts were wrong?

Hezbollah is firing unguided rockets into Israel as a continuation of a war for the Sheba farms which Israel is currently occupying. If they had f16's and guided missiles, I am sure they would target with a bit more discretion.

The point of the 6 nations is that out of all of the countries in the world, only 6 nations consider Hezbollah a terrorist organization. Draw from that your own conclusion.

To know if someone is a terrorist or is simply fighting a war against you you need to be in their head and hear their thoughts... Unfortunately since that is impossible in most cases, you must analyze who they kill.[/quote[

but dont they openly admit what they are thinking in released internet videos and public speaking?

Hezbollah does quite frequently... They always speak of freeing Lebanon from Israel. Driving them out of their country.

Is that a terrorist act? or an act of resistance against occupation.

Groups like Al queda have a twisted view on why they do what they do, and are far too gone to ever be a valid resistance group. They purposely kill innocents and deserve their fate.

Hezbollah is far from being anything like AQ.

Transcript of Nasrallah (Leader of Hezbollah) with CNN from awhile back... Listen to the very essense of the reason he and hezbollah exist.

MACVICAR: I heard you in your speech on asura (ph) when you spoke to the people who were gathered there. And you said that the people, speaking to the Americans, the people of this region would receive, them meaning the Americans, with rifles, blood, arms, with martyrdom and martyrdom operations, suicide bombings. If that is what you believe, will Hezbollah take part in those operations? Would Hezbollah launch attacks against U.S. forces in the region?

SHEIKH HASSAN NASRALLAH, HEZBOLLAH LEADER: The occupiers could stay 10, 50, 100 years, but in the end they leave. I believe this occupation will be resisted. But with regards to Hezbollah, we are in a state of confrontation with Israeli occupiers and the battle is not over yet. It is still going on. As far as the region is concerned, it is subject to what happens. In the end, we are part of this region, and we are affected by its developments. What we may do or not do in the future depends on the nature of what happens here in the region.

MACVICAR: You talked about how during the days when American forces were in Beirut, people in the southern suburbs screamed "Death to America." You went on to say, now with U.S. forces back in the region, "Death to America" was, is and shall remain our slogan, and not merely a slogan but a policy. How does Hezbollah intend to implement that policy?

NASRALLAH: in that same speech, I said, we don't mean death to American people but death to the U.S. project in the region. We don't want to kill. We did not launch attacks on U.S. grounds. We don't want to kill Americans.

MACVICAR: My point of clarification is to ask you whether or not that means that if U.S. forces come to this region and remain in this region that Hezbollah might then consider them a legitimate target?

NASRALLAH: If they come to Iraq?

MACVICAR: If they come to the region, if they come to Iraq, if they stay in Iraq.

NASRALLAH: This will be up to the Iraqi people, and the way the Iraqi people will deal with these troops. Will they consider them friendly troops or occupying troops? Sooner or later, the Iraqis will consider them as occupiers. We have no presence in Iraq, but certainly if the American troops come and attack Lebanon, without question, we will fight them.

MACVICAR: You know that one of the key questions here in the region that many want to know the answer to is how will Hezbollah act if there is a war? Would Hezbollah, for example, attack Israel if there is a war?

NASRALLAH: Our policy is clear, we are fighting in an area that is still under occupation in Lebanon. And beyond that area, we are on the defensive. What is being talked about now is the probability of the Sharon government launching an attack against Lebanon to eliminate the resistance of Hezbollah by using the American war against Iraq. But, of course, in this case, we will certainly fight with all our strength.

MACVICAR: You will have heard, of course, that the Israelis, Israeli intelligence, some American officials have been now saying for nearly two years that Hezbollah has come into possession of what they describe as thousands of missiles, missiles that they say have a longer range capability than Hezbollah has previously been known to be in possession of. Do you possess missiles which are capable of striking into the heart of Israel's urban centers?

NASRALLAH: We believe that it is our right to possess any weapon we choose to defend our country. It is our right to have weapons. Lebanon is caught in a cycle of threats. And it is our duty to be strong and capable of defending our country. But we will not clarify or explain what we do or do not possess.

MACVICAR: The United States administration calls Hezbollah the a-team of terrorism. They say that you owe the United States a blood debt. They say that there is a price to be paid for that and that you are on their list. And when the time is right, they are going to come after Hezbollah. What do you think the United States will do, and what will you do?

NASRALLAH: Hezbollah's problem with the American administration is that we're fighting Israel. And I'm as certain as I can be that if we were to say we'd give up the fight against the Israelis, that we would not retaliate if Israel attacks our country, then there's a very great possibility that Hezbollah would be dropped from the American list of terrorist organizations. We did not start a fight with America, and we don't want a war with America. If someone launches an attack, though, we will respond. We will not take rejection or humiliation. We do not want to fight.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0303/16/sun.11.html

Here is some info about the author.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/7c/WTSTownhallFOXNews.jpg/340px-WTSTownhallFOXNews.jpg

So his direct quotes of Phares are inaccurate because . . .

I picked up on the heavy bias as well but you're deflecting by ignoring the many quotes of someone other than the person you are trying to discredit.

So his direct quotes of Phares are inaccurate because . . .

I picked up on the heavy bias as well but you're deflecting by ignoring the many quotes of someone other than the person you are trying to discredit.

I don't find it quite important or find that it holds any weight. I could just as easily post quotes from other people who will speak about their version of the truth about Hezbollah. It is an interesting Article, but in a propaganda war, it is just 1 man's opinion.

All in all, good read. Could be possible, but quite frankly there is more evidence to the contrary.

You all expressed negative views of the other forum in which i Regularly post, but a good post was made and I wanted to share...

The first one is from an Israeli, and the response, a man from Ireland.

Originally Posted by Parmenides
Nothing wrong with killing a terrorist.
Only you people can mourn the death of a mass-murderer.

Wanted world wide for multiple terror acts, he finally met the fate of all terrorists. The man planed the deaths of hundreds, women and children.



Something to ponder on is the ability for western nations like the US and Israel to talk about the “war on terrorism” and how all forms are evil acts. But yet the statements from governments applauded this terrorist attack. The hypocrisy is once again disappointing but not surprising.

I feel little about the actual death of this person but constant double standards emitting from the White House are nothing short of disgraceful and very much part of the ongoing problems in many geo-political conflicts presently.

Once again the so called beacon of light for democracy has shown its true colours once again, leaving me, once again unimpressed thus. The picking the good bits out of any policy and disregarding the rest can never be the way forward.

Proactively approving of a terrorist attack while aggressively engaging other nations in a war against terror, of course, lessens the credibility of that nation/government.

Yet you criminilize even the act of terror against enemy soldiers. You have no possible way of dropping your bias for one moment. We aided Iraq against Iran, and the Iranians fought back. Like I said... Go cry about 100 or so dead soldiers while Iran thanks to our support of Sadaam has to mourn over a million. Go cry me a river about some Hostages Iran took from an embassy, while Lebanese citizens were murdered with cluster bombs by Israel with our blessings and support.



If your enemy is in another country do they stop being your enemy?


Jedd, this is why I end up despising you as a person, you are a total compassionless piece of crap.

You know, I used to feel bad for Iran, I actually respected them for overthrowing the Shah, I respected their leadership for wanting to open a dialogue with the US. I actually thought that we were way in the wrong for not accepting the invitation to negotiate.

But I do have to say, anyone who supports acts of war really truly has something wrong with them and that is you. But I do know you are very young, have a total lack of life experience and are fairly immature.

Jedd, this is why I end up despising you as a person, you are a total compassionless piece of crap.

You know, I used to feel bad for Iran, I actually respected them for overthrowing the Shah, I respected their leadership for wanting to open a dialogue with the US. I actually thought that we were way in the wrong for not accepting the invitation to negotiate.

But I do have to say, anyone who supports acts of war really truly has something wrong with them and that is you. But I do know you are very young, have a total lack of life experience and are fairly immature.

Your response is so ridiculous Rover...

I do not support acts of war... I support people's right to retaliate when they have been acted against.

I feel just as bad for the Soldiers that died in Beirut, as I do for the million that died in Iran, or the tens of thousands that died in Lebanon at the hands of Israel. Fact is on these forums I have been made out to be some sort of monster and terrorist lover because I mourn the deaths of the people our soldiers fought against.

To hell with what people think. I firmly stand by my feelings on the subject. I see no harm in attacking soldiers in a war, regardless of whether or not they are on a peacekeeping mission in another country or sitting inside your land attacking you. Does it bother me that innocent people died in the barracks bombing in Beirut? Yes.

Does it bother me more then the deaths of a million Iranians or tens of thousands of Lebanese? No.

That is the difference between most on these forums and me. I will say it over and over if I have to, because only god coming down from heaven to tell me I am wrong will ever change my mind.

But I do know you are very young, have a total lack of life experience and are fairly immature.

Nice jab... And I think your an ignorant person who cannot stand to hear anything at all which diminishes your "Our soldiers are heroes" mental state. Though I must say, sometimes I find you rather intelligent, you sometimes just lose it and get completely ridiculous.

I do not support acts of war... I support people's right to retaliate when they have been acted against.

That's great Jedd....good for you.


I feel just as bad for the Soldiers that died in Beirut, as I do for the million that died in Iran, or the tens of thousands that died in Lebanon at the hands of Israel.

No you don't...your completely bullshiting and you know it. You don't feel one ounce of sympathy towards any Marine who died in Beirut.

Nice jab... And I think your an ignorant person who cannot stand to hear anything at all which diminishes your "Our soldiers are heroes" mental state. Though I must say, sometimes I find you rather intelligent, you sometimes just lose it and get completely ridiculous

Jedd, understand this, all soldiers are heoes in their own right, no matter which country they support. But things that stand with children around them and fire upon soldiers because they FULL WELL KNOW that those soldiers will neither retaliate and would rather die than shoot a civilian. Those things that do that are neither soldiers, nor heroes or even men...they are not even human in my mind.

And your justification of those acts or failure to even admonish those types of actions shows your ignorance in the brightest of light.

No you don't...your completely bullshiting and you know it. You don't feel one ounce of sympathy towards any Marine who died in Beirut.

I feel sorry for them losing their lives... You cannot know how I feel. Unfortunately a countries actions sometimes sours ones image of the military. I may feel our military do some pretty fucked up things, but I don't blame the individuals. I blame our leaders.


Jedd, understand this, all soldiers are heoes in their own right, no matter which country they support. But things that stand with children around them and fire upon soldiers because they FULL WELL KNOW that those soldiers will neither retaliate and would rather die than shoot a civilian. Those things that do that are neither soldiers, nor heroes or even men...they are not even human in my mind.

And your justification of those acts or failure to even admonish those types of actions shows your ignorance in the brightest of light.

There are some that will hide behind civilians, but the over use of the word "Human shields" has diminished its meaning.

I constantly hear people calling Hezbollah cowards for hiding behind Human shields. Hezbollah members are civilians as well as soldiers. They are fighting in their neighborhoods, in their streets, and by their own childrens schools. I never condone the use of purposely using a civilian as a shield, but I also do not buy the nonsense I hear from this administration and from the military most of the time.

If it is a problem for us that they are fighting from within residential districts and among civilians, then perhaps we should stop attempting to fight people in their countries, and in their neighborhoods.

The very fact that we are having this discussion shows the complete ridiculous use of our soldiers whom are supposed to keep us safe, who are instead sent to fight in other peoples neighborhoods and then complain about how they defend themselves.

Rover, You do not know me, and apparently you cannot understand me. That however is no fault of mine.

Hezbollah members are civilians as well as soldiers.

Perhaps there is something lacking in the translation? You can't be a civilian as well as a soldier. You either are an enemy, a sympathiser, or a civilian.

Human Shields are sympathisers willing to keep their "soldiers" from dying by standing in front of them, unless being held at gun point.

I think urban warfare has to be the worst possible situation for any soldier.
Of course, you can't round up the civilians and put them somewhere other than the city they live in, as that dredges up images of concentration camps.

And it makes the warfare 10 times as hard, because of the added danger of not knowing which people are the enemy, who are supporters of the enemy and who are just people trying to live their daily lives.

Couple that on top of being ridiculed from some people for even daring to fight back, and you have a small understanding of the soldier's prediciment.

I would have to think that instead of applying terrorism to that you would just call it a "Surprise"

So then they can't complain when we surprise attack Iran for supporting warring factions in Iraq in 2008?

I am not afraid of them.

That's easy to say half way across the globe from them, and you've never been there.

Perhaps there is something lacking in the translation? You can't be a civilian as well as a soldier. You either are an enemy, a sympathiser, or a civilian.

Human Shields are sympathisers willing to keep their "soldiers" from dying by standing in front of them, unless being held at gun point.

I think urban warfare has to be the worst possible situation for any soldier.
Of course, you can't round up the civilians and put them somewhere other than the city they live in, as that dredges up images of concentration camps.

And it makes the warfare 10 times as hard, because of the added danger of not knowing which people are the enemy, who are supporters of the enemy and who are just people trying to live their daily lives.

Couple that on top of being ridiculed from some people for even daring to fight back, and you have a small understanding of the soldier's prediciment.

What you posted is in essence the dilemma and the reason that calling them cowards and accusing them of hiding behind Human shields is wrong.

What I mean by civilian and soldier, is that they are in their country, in their city, in their neighborhood. Any civilians that die, there is a chance the knew, and a chance it is their familty. In reality it would be cowardly to not fight and let occupiers or your enemy come in swiftly and without harm to you or your friends and family.

However it is a western belief that a man, or a member of Hezbollah in this case, fighting from within an apartment building which he is using for cover, or from around the corner of a building that may have civilians in it, is using human shields.

This belief is flawed. They are in their country, city, village, neighborhood... Sure it makes it harder for our soldiers, but as civilian deaths rack up or our own military deaths do, one must ask... Who's fault is it? The resistance fighters who belong in the country, or the outside force that enters?

I agree with you that the soldiers recieve a severe handicap in Urban warfare, which puts their lives in even more risk. Personally however, I blame their leaders for putting them there, not the people they end up fighting against.

So then they can't complain when we surprise attack Iran for supporting warring factions in Iraq in 2008?

Iran has always supported the Shia militia's in Iraq... Don't forget that Iran once fought Iraq in a war, and relied on the same tactics that the US uses in using proxies to assist in their efforts.

As a matter of fact, the very leadership of Iraq now are sympathetic to Iran. They were the ones Iran would have put in place had they been able to march into baghdad. In essence we did Iran a favor, and all they had to do was watch.

Of course they can't complain if we attack them based on assistance to warring factions in Iraq... The issue though is that we don't want to attack them. It would be the biggest folly of any American president to start a war with Iran at a time where even reserves are stretched thin. To fight Iran would require withdrawing from several different fronts, which would then leave the US with little manpower outside the persian gulf.

Germany, Japan, Anywhere where we have soldiers, we would have to pull and send to Iran... or we can start a draft, which would be sending even more poorly trained soldiers to fight against a country at least 5 times as tough as Iraq. Can it be done? Yes... Is it smart, or can we ensure that it will not be a clusterfuck? No

That's easy to say half way across the globe from them, and you've never been there.

I am not afraid of Hezbollah Taleren... All it would take is for me to speak farsi and I would be fine. Others such as Al Queda or other terrorist cells are completely different, and would no doubt kill me if they knew I was American, heck even if I am Iranian they would. Iran has no love for AQ and they hate Iran just as much. Hezbollah however would not act against an Iranian, unless I was wearing a big USA shirt, or a military uniform. And if they somehow got to me here in the US, then I think we would have bigger problems then to worry what about what would happen to me.

Of course they can't complain if we attack them based on assistance to warring factions in Iraq... The issue though is that we don't want to attack them. It would be the biggest folly of any American president to start a war with Iran at a time where even reserves are stretched thin. To fight Iran would require withdrawing from several different fronts, which would then leave the US with little manpower outside the persian gulf.



I never said I wanted to invade Iran, or that I thought it was the correct course of action right now. I was just pointing out your folly for the past ohhh several months saying that the US has no right to attack Iran. Now you state that Iran via proxy had a right to attack the US in the 80s because we were aiding an enemy of theirs.

By that logic, regardless of whether Iran is building nukes, has human rights violations, threatens our allies, whatever we want to argue for the day, the United States by your reasoning has the right to attack Iran.

My only point is you've been arguing against that for months now, and because of your apparent blood lust towards the American military, you can't state that case anymore because of hasty comments you've made about the other side of the fence.

By your own reasoning, it would be perfectly acceptable for us to bomb a Military installment of Iran's and their embassy in Baghdad. Then, when the Iranians are pissed off about it 20 years from now, I assume you will defend the US's right to do those things because Iran is currently aiding warring factions in Iraq?

I am not afraid of Hezbollah Taleren... All it would take is for me to speak farsi and I would be fine.

You think so? They won't even allow middle eastern sympathizers an audience with the leadership of Hezbollah. Anyhow, I didn't take the comment you were reacting too to saying you weren't afraid of Hezbollah, but that you weren't afraid to go to the middle east in general being an "American."

There are tons of places in the middle east you SHOULD be afraid for your life simply being American right now. I would think you were being too flippant to completely ignore that.

I never said I wanted to invade Iran, or that I thought it was the correct course of action right now. I was just pointing out your folly for the past ohhh several months saying that the US has no right to attack Iran. Now you state that Iran via proxy had a right to attack the US in the 80s because we were aiding an enemy of theirs.

By that logic, regardless of whether Iran is building nukes, has human rights violations, threatens our allies, whatever we want to argue for the day, the United States by your reasoning has the right to attack Iran.

My only point is you've been arguing against that for months now, and because of your apparent blood lust towards the American military, you can't state that case anymore because of hasty comments you've made about the other side of the fence.

By your own reasoning, it would be perfectly acceptable for us to bomb a Military installment of Iran's and their embassy in Baghdad. Then, when the Iranians are pissed off about it 20 years from now, I assume you will defend the US's right to do those things because Iran is currently aiding warring factions in Iraq?

I have been discussing their nuclear program, and based on that alone there is no evidence that Iran is a threat to the world. I never said Iran's hands were clean completely in all things. However I usually point out how similar their actions are to that of our own country. How we use proxies as they do, and how we try and influence movements in their country just as they do in Iraq.

Realpolitik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realpolitik)

You don't need any other justification.

You think so? They won't even allow middle eastern sympathizers an audience with the leadership of Hezbollah. Anyhow, I didn't take the comment you were reacting too to saying you weren't afraid of Hezbollah, but that you weren't afraid to go to the middle east in general being an "American."

There are tons of places in the middle east you SHOULD be afraid for your life simply being American right now. I would think you were being too flippant to completely ignore that.

I am getting confused if you are talking about Hezbollah or terrorists... I am quite aware that as an American I am unsafe in certain places in the middle east. Even as an Iranian there are places you shouldn't go, but that has nothing to do with what we are discussing about Lebanon and Hezbollah.

I can honestly tell you that Hezbollah are not animals as to kill someone like me on sight. You can believe it or not, thats up to you.

On another note... I wonder if any of you guys knew that due to the classification of IRGC as a terrorist organization by America... Iran has put the US Military under the classification of terrorist organization as well.

Which strips our soldiers of their rights as POW's in a war. GG Bush

So our soldiers get to make car bombs, as well as use human shields, kidnap anyone that doesn't believe in our ideology, and hold for ransom family members of people we don't like?

If you get to be treated like a terrorist organization, why not act like one? (Rhet.)

So our soldiers get to make car bombs, as well as use human shields, kidnap anyone that doesn't believe in our ideology, and hold for ransom family members of people we don't like?

If you get to be treated like a terrorist organization, why not act like one? (Rhet.)

Joke about it... but that wont comfort any of our soldiers that would get caught if war was to break out. And please.. Thank bush for his stupidity

I wasn't joking.....

If the tactics used by the "freedom fighters"/terrorists were employed in reverse, the uproar from the rest of the world would be deafening.

Simple fact is, we don't fight like they do and if we did, they'd be crying that we are horrible oppressors, ect, ect.

And I'm pretty sure that any soldier captured in this rehortical war you have envisioned, have no illusions on how they would be treated, even if they were not branded as "terrorists".

I wasn't joking.....

If the tactics used by the "freedom fighters"/terrorists were employed in reverse, the uproar from the rest of the world would be deafening.

Simple fact is, we don't fight like they do and if we did, they'd be crying that we are horrible oppressors, ect, ect.

And I'm pretty sure that any soldier captured in this rehortical war you have envisioned, have no illusions on how they would be treated, even if they were not branded as "terrorists".

Guess what... the IRGC also does not act like terrorists... but our president felt the need to label them terrorists... You just pointed out exactly why Bush is a dumb ass.

You somehow think they wouldn't be treated poorly if they were captured in this rhetorical conflict?

There are people in Guantanamo Bay that don't want to go home. Living in a detention facility is actually a step up from how they were living before, as well as the fear they have of going back, and getting their gourds whacked off with a blade akin to a dull hacksaw....

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8G6CJV03&show_article=1

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico (AP) - Fearing militants or even their own governments, some prisoners at Guantanamo Bay from China, Saudi Arabia and other nations do not want to go home, according to transcripts of hearings at the U.S. prison in Cuba.
Uzbekistan, Yemen, Algeria and Syria are also among the countries to which detainees do not want to return. The inmates have told military tribunals that they or their families could be tortured or killed if they are sent back.


Do you think any American soldiers would say, "Please don't send me back to the United States, I'm afraid for me and the lives of my family!" if they were captured by Iran, even if they weren't labeled as "terrorists"?

You just pointed out exactly why Bush is a dumb ass

who the fuck is arguing that...

You somehow think they wouldn't be treated poorly if they were captured in this rhetorical conflict?

There are people in Guantanamo Bay that don't want to go home. Living in a detention facility is actually a step up from how they were living before, as well as the fear they have of going back, and getting their gourds whacked off with a blade akin to a dull hacksaw....

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8G6CJV03&show_article=1


Do you think any American soldiers would say, "Please don't send me back to the United States, I'm afraid for me and the lives of my family!" if they were captured by Iran, even if they weren't labeled as "terrorists"?

Wow... you once again compared Iran in this possible conflict to goddamn terrorists and dictatoral Arab regimes...

Iranians have more pride in their military and their soldiers then any country in the middle east. You think that an Iranian soldier perhaps would rather be in guantanamo then go back to their family in Iran because they will get their heads chopped off?

You are truly ignorant in regards to Iran. Iranians still mourn their dead from the Iran/Iraq War. They have pictures of dead soldiers on banners who they still pray for. They show a picture of another dead soldier from the Iran/Iraq war on the TV every day along with a story about them and information about their family.

You think they are the kind of people who would cut the heads of their returned POW's? They would kiss their feet...

Are you serious? How could you even dare try and show life in guantanamo as a better alternative for Iranians, as if they are Animals in Iran to slaughter their soldiers, and act like Americans have so much more to come home for. Cut the Holier then thou bullshit please.

I thought the borders of countries were blurred over there in regards to the Muslim World....

Could you please explain when it is appropriate to assume the lines between countries will be blurred, and when they won't so I won't continue to get confused....?

I thought the borders of countries were blurred over there in regards to the Muslim World....

Could you please explain when it is appropriate to assume the lines between countries will be blurred, and when they won't so I won't continue to get confused....?

Figure out a way to stop illegal aliens from crossing into America and then you can talk.

Firearms, A really big wall, and a good guest worker program are all on the agenda.

So WTH is Iran doing to secure its border?

Firearms, A really big wall, and a good guest worker program are all on the agenda.

So WTH is Iran doing to secure its border?

Do you enjoy switching topics constantly? is this like some game to try and beat me at something?

I assumed that when you brought up the border issue it was in regards to the zarqawi discussion we had where he was able to travel from country to country.

If you are going to try and bring that up against Iran, then my response is that you need to first be able to stop people you don't want here before blaming someone else for not stopping someone they don't want in their country.

It was also in regards to the bombing of the Marine Corp baraks in Lebanon, which Hezbollah/Iran have no issues claiming responsibility.

The Marines weren't doing anything to either at that time, but because they were in a "Muslim Country" Iran took the opportunity to attack.

Perhaps that's 1 of the reasons Iran is considered a harbor or terrorists? The pourous borders that allow those "undesirables" into the country?

Could be another reason the West isn't comfortable with them having a Nuclear Reactor. If indesirables can get in, what's to stop them from getting into a Nuclear Facility?

And it wasn't a switching of topics, it was a natural progression of the conversation.

It was also in regards to the bombing of the Marine Corp baraks in Lebanon, which Hezbollah/Iran have no issues claiming responsibility.

The Marines weren't doing anything to either at that time, but because they were in a "Muslim Country" Iran took the opportunity to attack.

Perhaps that's 1 of the reasons Iran is considered a harbor or terrorists? The pourous borders that allow those "undesirables" into the country?

Could be another reason the West isn't comfortable with them having a Nuclear Reactor. If indesirables can get in, what's to stop them from getting into a Nuclear Facility?

And it wasn't a switching of topics, it was a natural progression of the conversation.

Once again you conveniently forget the true important facts that led to the bombing of the Marine Barracks in Beirut.

It was not because they were in a "Muslim country" The lebanese they fought against was for that reason... Iran's involvement was with Hezbollah and the American soldiers.

America was currently aiding Iraq in its war against Iran. Iran used its proxy to attack the United States. There were no blurred borders, America made the mistake of backing Sadaam, and helping him in his war on Iran. Iran fought back. Like I said earlier, go cry about it on your own time. It was a viable attack on an enemy force.

It also led to the US Withdrawing from Lebanon, therefore the Lebanese fighters also achieved their goal. If you want to play this game... Lets play.

The US attacked a passenger airliner and killed over 250 civilians. The CIA assassinated Mossadeq who was an elected leader of Iran, to put a USA friendly leader in his place. The US backed Iraq against Iran in the 8 year war, in which almost a million Iranians died. The US helped provide Iraq with chemical and biological weapons which were then used on Iranian soldiers and civilians. The US vetoed any resolution put forth by the UN to stop Iraq. The US did not join the UN in condemning the use of Chemical and Biological weapons against Iranian civilians. The US has for 29 years put sanctions and embargos on Iran which do more damage to the average civilian in Iran then they do the government.

Cry me a river for some 200 soldiers dieing in a bombing.

Cry me a river for some 200 soldiers dieing in a bombing.:( Sad Jedd.

If the US is so bad to Iranians, why would your family come here? Just curious, not starting a fight.

I know that I wouldn't move to a country that was an enemy of the US because I thought it might lead to a better life.

If the US is so bad to Iranians, why would your family come here? Just curious, not starting a fight.

I know that I wouldn't move to a country that was an enemy of the US because I thought it might lead to a better life.

My parents moved here before the Revolution. They met and got married here.

Ok, that makes more sense then.

And they stayed after their new home country treated their homeland the way it has because they'd laid roots here or didn't have the capacity to go back?

I am just trying to figure out where your hatred for the US comes from I guess after all the opportunities it has obviously provided for your family and now to you.

Now, I know, you'll say you don't hate the US, and maybe you don't. What I see though is a lack of any empathy for any American, but justification for people that have done wrong to Americans. I never see you state anything that America has done well for you or your family. I only seem to see you demonize the country from which you were born.

Seeing that from a natural born American citizen is very disheartening. I'm not saying you have to like everything done by our country. You know very well that I don't approve everything that's going on either. I do love my country though, and wouldn't want to live anywhere else. I don't have a problem voicing a negative opinion about the US, but at the same time I don't have a hard time praising something that's done well either. I can't recall off hand anything positive every coming from you about the US.

Ok, that makes more sense then.

And they stayed after their new home country treated their homeland the way it has because they'd laid roots here or didn't have the capacity to go back?

I am just trying to figure out where your hatred for the US comes from I guess after all the opportunities it has obviously provided for your family and now to you.

Now, I know, you'll say you don't hate the US, and maybe you don't. What I see though is a lack of any empathy for any American, but justification for people that have done wrong to Americans. I never see you state anything that America has done well for you or your family. I only seem to see you demonize the country from which you were born.

Seeing that from a natural born American citizen is very disheartening. I'm not saying you have to like everything done by our country. You know very well that I don't approve everything that's going on either. I do love my country though, and wouldn't want to live anywhere else. I don't have a problem voicing a negative opinion about the US, but at the same time I don't have a hard time praising something that's done well either. I can't recall off hand anything positive every coming from you about the US.

My parents stayed here because once they met and got married they made a life for themselves here. They also do not dislike America. They get upset about some of our actions, but they do not let it affect their life.

I love America Taleren. I really truly love the freedom and comfort to live here and not be bothered. I however do not let myself be blinded by my comfort.

Though I love my country, I despise our government, and our actions both in the past and in the present. Let me clarify something for you though. Just like in the news. They spend more time discussing bad things happening in the world, because they invoke more emotion and ultimately sell the news.

There is more reason for me to discuss the faults of my country then the good, because the good does not need changing, and among other Americans is usually already known. Whereas the good in Iran is not commonly known and is never discussed among my fellow Americans. Thus why I wish to speak of the good in Iran, and will comment on the bad when asked, but will not spend my time condemning every Iranian problem daily, because you can just as easily see the negative wherever you turn.

I am proud to be American, but I am also proud to be Iranian. I would fight for America against any threat to America, but I would never betray my people and fight against Iran for America. In such a fight... I would remain neutral. Treasonous or not, It is how I feel.

but I am also proud to be Iranian

technically you arent....as much as I am not Irish Cuban, i am American.

technically you arent....as much as I am not Irish Cuban, i am American.

Mmmm bailey's flavored cigar...

technically you arent....as much as I am not Irish Cuban, i am American.

Technically I am.... Both of my parents were born and raised in Iran. I have family in Iran, I speak Farsi daily, I eat Iranian food... What makes me less Iranian? Cause I was born in the USA? Please...

There is more reason for me to discuss the faults of my country then the good, because the good does not need changing, and among other Americans is usually already known. Whereas the good in Iran is not commonly known and is never discussed among my fellow Americans. Thus why I wish to speak of the good in Iran, and will comment on the bad when asked, but will not spend my time condemning every Iranian problem daily, because you can just as easily see the negative wherever you turn.

Perhaps it would better serve "the" cause to do the same regarding America on the other message board you frequent, that is, discuss the good things about America to those who refuse to see them.

Or would that be embarrasing for you?

Perhaps it would better serve "the" cause to do the same regarding America on the other message board you frequent, that is, discuss the good things about America to those who refuse to see them.

Or would that be embarrasing for you?

Do you even know what I post there?

No, I don't.

Can you see why I would ask you such a question?

No, I don't.

Can you see why I would ask you such a question?

On the Iranian forums I have joined other Americans in condemning some of the acts of the Iranian government which violate human rights. I spend alot of time arguing with Israeli's though. So not much time is devoted to much else anymore unfortunately.

I have posted many times about my hopes for America, and what I think will happen as things change in our country, especially the position of president. My unique position of being an Iranian American gets my Pro American views more respect on those forums and usually leads to good debate about the pro's and con's of America.

Do you know how many of the Americans on those forums have benefited in their knowledge of the Iranian people by spending time on those forums? It is very refreshing that even though sometimes I disagree with them, to see that there are Americans on those forums who have decided to open dialog with Iranians, and learn more about them, while also teaching the Iranians more about America.

And every once in awhile in comes some Rambo posting about how we will crush Iran, and sets back months of civil discussion.

Here is a snippet of me complaining about a problem with how Iran treats women in comparison to men...

11-16-2007, 06:37 PM
General
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n308/webdesigntalk/ranks/Iran-army_20.gif
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA USA
Posts: 2,105


http://www.irandefence.net/images/icons/icon1.gif
Heard about this yesterday... This is one aspect of Islamic laws I do not like. As much as it is said that Women are respected, they are still treated like crap compared to men.

Like there was another news story about an Iranian Gang rape victim who stabbed 2 of the 3, the 2 guys that survived got 7 years in prison and she got the death penalty. this bias is ridiculous, and a good reason why things need to change.

I appreciate your response and can only hope you are in fact doing as you say. I think it is the your apparent lack of loyalty for America that illicits some of the responses to your posts. Evidence that you aren't quite as bad as you appear, however irrelevant to your arguments, helps digest what you have to say.

I am speaking only for myself.

Jedd you work much? Or you one of those professional internet cry babies that think they are actually making a difference in the world from their little desk and computer?

/golf clap on complaining about how Iraian women are treated...wow ground breaking. How about jumping on a plane (to Iran) and standing on a street corner and giving it a whirl with your complaints.

Your clearly a smart person, care about your mother land, why not actually go there and start up a life? Give it a shot, if anyone can do it you can!

Jedd you work much? Or you one of those professional internet cry babies that think they are actually making a difference in the world from their little desk and computer?

/golf clap on complaining about how Iraian women are treated...wow ground breaking. How about jumping on a plane (to Iran) and standing on a street corner and giving it a whirl with your complaints.

Your clearly a smart person, care about your mother land, why not actually go there and start up a life? Give it a shot, if anyone can do it you can!


lol troll speaks when troll wants?

Iran blah blah blah Iran blah blah blah....


Broken record.

Iran blah blah blah Iran blah blah blah....


Broken record.

Err...duh...err..duh...err...err.

Broken brain

Cry me a river for some 200 soldiers dieing in a bombing.

You're not worth talking to anymore, so yea...blah blah blah Iran blah blah
Long live Israel, love those folks.

You're not worth talking to anymore, so yea...blah blah blah Iran blah blah
Long live Israel, love those folks.

Don't let the door hit ya on the way out...