http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/04/18/khalid-sheikh-mohammed-was-waterboarded-183-times-in-one-month/


The CIA used the waterboard "at least 83 times during August 2002" in the interrogation of Zubaydah. IG Report at 90, and 183 times during March 2003 in the interrogation of KSM, see id. at 91.

way to go cia, way to go indeed.

Yes it is...and likely created false information...

But be not so quick as there are other countries guilty also...

GENEVA -- Sweden broke international law when it sent a terror suspect home to Egypt despite his protests that he would be tortured there, a United Nations human rights body found Friday.

Sweden's Migration Minister Barbro Holmberg said the government has not had time to review the finding but is taking it seriously. "We will analyze this carefully to see what guidance this can give for the future," Holmberg told the Swedish news agency TT.
...
The U.N. Convention against Torture, which Sweden was found to have violated, holds that no signatory shall "expel, return or extradite a person to another state where there are substantial grounds for believing that he would be in danger of being subjected to torture."
...
The Swedish government acknowledged both asylum seekers had a well-founded fear of being persecuted if returned to Egypt. However, the men were excluded from refugee status based on evidence that they were associated with Islamist groups responsible for acts of terrorism.

But not new...

Toward the end of World War II, an unspecified number of Latvian and Estonian Nazi war criminals escaped to Sweden among a wave of Baltic refugees fleeing the advancing Soviet Army. Although the Swedish government established a special commission to investigate their wartime activities, no legal action was ever taken against any of these escaped Holocaust perpetrators.

In 1986, the Simon Wiesenthal Center exposed the presence in Sweden of several Baltic Nazi war criminals and asked the Swedish government to investigate the entry of Nazi collaborators into the country and to take legal action against those who could be brought to trial. The Swedish authorities refused to investigate, let alone prosecute these cases


We...at least a majority of Americans are shamed by the Bush administrations activities...that's one reason Obama was elected...but again...are you also shamed by the actions or inaction of your own country?

Yes it is...and likely created false information...

But be not so quick as there are other countries guilty also...



But not new...




We...at least a majority of Americans are shamed by the Bush administrations activities...that's one reason Obama was elected...but again...are you also shamed by the actions or inaction of your own country?

wtf is this supposed to mean? do you think im proud my country cooperated with the CIA which resulted in 2 people being tortured? why in the world would i hold such a stupid opinion? and why in the world are you so defensive, i never said you were for torture.

Wiggo = fail at reading comprehension.

I think it's his intentional bs when it"

America = evil backwards hicks

His own country = pure as the driven snow

Truth is no country has clean hands, and if they think so they are intentionally blind.

wtf is this supposed to mean? do you think im proud my country cooperated with the CIA which resulted in 2 people being tortured? why in the world would i hold such a stupid opinion? and why in the world are you so defensive, i never said you were for torture.

It just came across that you were pointing fingers at the US, and inferring that Sweden was innocent of these things.

It just came across that you were pointing fingers at the US, and inferring that Sweden was innocent of these things.

yes, sweden is innocent of torture, because we dont torture. i dont see whats hard to understand about that.

I think it's his intentional bs when it"

America = evil backwards hicks

His own country = pure as the driven snow

Truth is no country has clean hands, and if they think so they are intentionally blind.

way to read something i never said into my post, youre quite the champ!

yeah, Sweden just stands by and lets it happen.

http://www.thelocal.se/11058/20080411/

yeah, Sweden just stands by and lets it happen.

http://www.thelocal.se/11058/20080411/

this is despicable, but i dont know what point youre trying to make here. i never said we were perfect, and never have i tried to whitewash my countries actions. the story i posted is about systemic torture though, which is quite another beast entirerly.

Wiggo, I think the thing is that we know what has been done, meaning we don't need to have it kept being shoved down our throats. It's kind of like accidently shitting in your pants in school and have someone bring it up every day.

We are currently working on the problem, we understand it was wrong, bad, disgusting, probably has been a great recruitment tool for radical islam, has cost American lives let alone all the others killed...we fully understand the gravity of the situation, kind of like "You have become better at NOT torturing 150"

We're getting there...it takes time.

this is despicable, but i dont know what point youre trying to make here. i never said we were perfect, and never have i tried to whitewash my countries actions. the story i posted is about systemic torture though, which is quite another beast entirerly.

But then again...you've never even mentioned it here.

That being said...the glass house thing sucks...as you see!

Oh...and by the way...notice that oddly enough...Osg, Graystone, Fandros and I got each others back here...hey...who would have ever thought...it is one of the cool things about America...take a shot at us and BOOM...rivals become brothers in a sense. It's what makes America great!

yes, sweden is innocent of torture, because we dont torture. i dont see whats hard to understand about that.



Well...Hitler never actually placed Jews in ovens or gas chambers...strangely he was still guilty. You don't always have to pull the trigger to be guilty is my point. Sending someone to a place you know will result in their torture is the same as pouring the water down their throats. Not physically seeing it does not mean you don't play an equal part in it.

But then again...you've never even mentioned it here.



i fail to see how this has any relevance whatsoever, you could not imagine the amount of information ive never mentioned here.

That being said...the glass house thing sucks...as you see!

stop imagining a glass house that does not exist, the story was about systemic torture on a massive scale.

Oh...and by the way...notice that oddly enough...Osg, Graystone, Fandros and I got each others back here...hey...who would have ever thought...it is one of the cool things about America...take a shot at us and BOOM...rivals become brothers in a sense. It's what makes America great!

yes, forming a defensive mob of knee-jerk stupidity as soon as someone criticizes your countrys actions is true greatness!

Wiggo overlooked the first reply. No one here agreed with the Bush policy to allow water boarding. We've since taken measures to correct that. That being said, we didn't provide assistance to the Nazi's as they committed one of the world greatest atrocities, so we can call it even.

Wiggo overlooked the first reply. No one here agreed with the Bush policy to allow water boarding. We've since taken measures to correct that. That being said, we didn't provide assistance to the Nazi's as they committed one of the world greatest atrocities, so we can call it even.

and neither did sweden, might want to study some history, mate. and by measures to correct that you are also including not prosecuting the people responsible for 1. ordering the torture and 2. performing the torture.

dont get me wrong though, i do commend obama for ceasing the actual 'advanced interrogations'.

and neither did sweden, might want to study some history, mate.

Go ahead Halo, our resident historian, we're all waiting for you to do it.

i fail to see how this has any relevance whatsoever, you could not imagine the amount of information ive never mentioned here.


stop imagining a glass house that does not exist, the story was about systemic torture on a massive scale.



yes, forming a defensive mob of knee-jerk stupidity as soon as someone criticizes your countrys actions is true greatness!

There was no knee jerk reaction, there was just citing of facts. Kelraz is right...and Osg pointed out...you should have comprehended my original reply.

Now coming together when someone criticizes the US doesn't always happen...in particular if it is a fair criticism..you will see most agree with you, however when your own country is guilty it is hard to see it as fair....unless of course you had said it like this:

"I realize that Sweden has culpability with torture and ignoring war crimes, at least as far back as WWII, but this shit from the US is unacceptable in this day...especially from the US"

That would have been "fair"...but it was not fair. Your post did what torture does...it brought opposing sides together...like Osg and myself, making your post one of the few things that Osg and I would come together in a virtual Coom-by-a...I actually feel a man love for Osg on this...oddly refreshing...hmmmmm

There was no knee jerk reaction, there was just citing of facts. Kelraz is right...and Osg pointed out...you should have comprehended my original reply.

Now coming together when someone criticizes the US doesn't always happen...in particular if it is a fair criticism..you will see most agree with you, however when your own country is guilty it is hard to see it as fair....unless of course you had said it like this:

"I realize that Sweden has culpability with torture and ignoring war crimes, at least as far back as WWII, but this shit from the US is unacceptable in this day...especially from the US"

That would have been "fair"...but it was not fair. Your post did what torture does...it brought opposing sides together...like Osg and myself, making your post one of the few things that Osg and I would come together in a virtual Coom-by-a...I actually feel a man love for Osg on this...oddly refreshing...hmmmmm

would you stop with the strawmen? world war 2 has absolutely nothing to do with how 'enemy combatants' were treated in gitmo. you do know that the laundry list of humanitarian offenses by the US is somewhere in the vicinity of 9 trillion times longer than swedens? maybe you should ask yourself why im not bringing up one of the approx. 10 quadrillion things the CIA have done that are terrible? because its not fucking relevant.

Dude, you are missing the point this whole conversation is based on the consensus that you are going "omg how horrible! look what the US is doing."

Now if Osi, Fandros, Malse or any other US user posted it ,we probably would of commented on it in some fashion, Sanchek would of derailed it, someone would of flamed someone ,Malse would of split the thread with a creative title (no sarcasm seriously the split title make me laugh) and we would move on.

Do you understand now why people were posting about Sweden in response to your post?

oh and yes its a weird double standard but hey its what makes life grand.

Dude, you are missing the point this whole conversation is based on the consensus that you are going "omg how horrible! look what the US is doing."

Now if Osi, Fandros, Malse or any other US user posted it ,we probably would of commented on it in some fashion, Sanchek would of derailed it, someone would of flamed someone ,Malse would of split the thread with a creative title (no sarcasm seriously the split title make me laugh) and we would move on.

Do you understand now why people were posting about Sweden in response to your post?

oh and yes its a weird double standard but hey its what makes life grand.

oh yes i do understand why, but its still a stupid knee-jerk reaction. posting irrelevant things about my home country is a weird defense mechanism indeed.

oh yes i do understand why, but its still a stupid knee-jerk reaction. posting irrelevant things about my home country is a weird defense mechanism indeed.

You posted stats from 2003 and before, and the current administration has ended this. It was taken by atleast myself as a "salt in the wound" type thing

You posted stats from 2003 and before, and the current administration has ended this. It was taken by atleast myself as a "salt in the wound" type thing

oh come on, you cant be blaming me for not releasing the stats earlier? and as i mentioned earlier, it IS good that the current administration has ended the torture, but the current administration has also decided that they wont be acting towards prosecuting the responsible parties, which is, in my opinion, a massive shame.

There are far bigger fish to fry than to spend energy fighting ourselves. We've an entire world to right, an elusive enemy to find and an economy to get back on track.

Luckily the vast majority of Swed's I have met of the years (I met a good many due to my hockey days playing Jr-A hockey) never acted like you. I am not about to let you ruin Rover's man love for me!


The Americans on this board got together and ordered you a book. Please E-mail Rover with your information so we can get it to you.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51JXZ60T8CL._SS500_.jpg

Luckily the vast majority of Swed's I have met of the years (I met a good many due to my hockey days playing Jr-A hockey) never acted like you. I am not about to let you ruin Rover's man love for me!


The Americans on this board got together and ordered you a book. Please E-mail Rover with your information so we can get it to you.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51JXZ60T8CL._SS500_.jpg

oh, youre quite the riot, arent you? i can see you sitting there, in your own drool, the smell of your overfilled diaper slowly filling the room, erupting in a nefarious guffaw; 'ma, i posted a witty picture! this yuropeen wont be messing with my country again! amerikuh! amerikuh!'. i guess the question im asking myself right now is: how do you manage to not commit suicide?

but the current administration has also decided that they wont be acting towards prosecuting the responsible parties

Point taken...but neither did Sweden.

Point taken...but neither did Sweden.

what you may not know is that the person responsible for the deportation to egypt, foreign minister anna lindh, was assassinated. sweden has paid out damages to the two deportees, and while i freely admit that this in no way makes it all better, it is still something.

edit: oh btw, fun fact: the deportation was done by american agents (likely CIA) using an US plane.

But Sweden is the land where everyone is beautiful and drives their Volvos to their perfect houses in the country after working their 15 hours a week in the land of Social Democratic Utopia! How could they ever be guilty of anything? They out Canada....well, CANADA! They are a cliche in themselves. As smart and beautiful as Americans are stupid and fat and Brits have bad teeth and dowdy women.

You will upset the balance in the Universe by ever suggesting that Sweden, who used to have their own empire and threw in with the Nazis could ever have any dirty history. The Vikings never did anything horrible either.

But Sweden is the land where everyone is beautiful and drives their Volvos to their perfect houses in the country in after working their 15 hours a week in the land of Social Democratic Utopia! How could they ever be guilty of anything? They out Canada....well, CANADA! They are a cliche in themselves. As smart and beautiful as Americans are stupid and fat and Brits have bad teeth and dowdy women.

You will upset the balance in the Universe by ever suggesting that Sweden, who used to have their own empire and threw in with the Nazis could ever have any dirty history. The Vikings never did anything horrible either.

while the repeating of irrelevant and random attacks on sweden seems to be all the rage, have you really gone so far as to compare torture performed in the 2000s to viking raids in the 800s? what the fuck is this, seriously. we also never had an empire, or threw in with any nazis, but whatever floats your boat dude.

My point is that given any period in time, no country is perfect. You decided that you would just get up today and commit yourself to this random attack on the United States's misgivings. There really was no provocation other than that you decided today was the morning you would wake up and be an ass and talk shit about old news. Look. Everyone in your country understands that the US is a bunch of gun toating evil savages. It wouldn't even matter if the fact is the majority of us aren't. Its whats programmed in your little Swedish brains, probably by watching the AMERICAN media. Americans kill babies (and eat them), devour all the world's resources, produce all the green house gas, start all the wars, do everything HORRIBLE you can ever imagine. They kick puppies and push old ladies into the street instead of helping them across. The self rightous bullshit gets old, Wiggo. If you are going to take a pull off of Jedd's juice, at least do so with something that isn't such weak sause. Grats to you for Sweden not doing anything fucked up in your short lifespan, but in the past Sweden has misbehaved just like any other country or they will end up a doormat.

My point is that given any period in time, no country is perfect. You decided that you would just get up today and commit yourself to this random attack on the United States's misgivings. There really was no provocation other than that you decided today was the morning you would wake up and be an ass and talk shit about old news. Look. Everyone in your country understands that the US is a bunch of gun toating evil savages. It wouldn't even matter if the fact is the majority of us aren't. Its whats programmed in your little Swedish brains, probably by watching the AMERICAN media. Americans kill babies (and eat them), devour all the world's resources, produce all the green house gas, start all the wars, do everything HORRIBLE you can ever imagine. They kick puppies and push old ladies into the street instead of helping them across. The self rightous bullshit gets old, Wiggo. If you are going to take a pull off of Jedd's juice, at least do so with something that isn't such weak sause. Grats to you for Sweden not doing anything fucked up in your short lifespan, but in the past Sweden has misbehaved just like any other country or they will end up a doormat.

im going to disregard all the rampant insanity in this post and just say this: i was not attacking anything, you retard, i was posting a news story i found AT THE TOP OF HUFFINGTONPOST. heres the fucking date: Saturday April 18, 2009 11:57 am.

edit: i just checked again, its still at the motherfucking top.

After what you just responded to from my post you call Lumm's post rampant insanity? ROFL! You goofy foreigners...

What is wrong with all you guys? WTF?! it is a news story that is pretty damn shocking... 1 person Waterboarded 83 fucking times?

Wtf does him being from Sweden have to do with him having the right to post an article to discuss?

He has insinuated his country is beyond reproach and has NEVER EEEVVVEEEERRRRR done anything wrong. Other then that I am not sure what he is going on about he is very hard to understand.

He has insinuated his country is beyond reproach and has NEVER EEEVVVEEEERRRRR done anything wrong. Other then that I am not sure what he is going on about he is very hard to understand.

its ok, you dont have to feel bad about it, my posts arent designed for people with serious mental disabilities.

Case in point.. I am pretty sure that response was supposed to be a meaningful well thought out response on why Sweden is the land of Utopian bliss, but I was unable to understand it due to incoherent rambling about meatballs...

Wiggo. I don't care. I am not shocked. I don't even feel a need to write my congressperson or do anything of that nature. Should we go have another tea party or something? This is OLD news. A recycled story. Beating a dead horse. A re-hash. People disagreed with you or proved apathatic so YOU are going on your usual bullshit tantrums, which I guess is easy when your nation is so boringly stable you have to rail against the past administrations of other nations just to get rid of all that pent up angst. So keep on calling people insane and throwing the insults around. It certainly makes for an intelligent arguement. Perhaps this thread will be the first one to get locked. Just keep it up. The board got close to being shut down due to this kind of nonsense.

Maybe this thread will be an informitive lesson for Wiggo on the menaing of "E plurblus Unum"!

Wiggo. I don't care. I am not shocked. I don't even feel a need to write my congressperson or do anything of that nature. Should we go have another tea party or something? This is OLD news. A recycled story. Beating a dead horse. A re-hash. People disagreed with you or proved apathatic so YOU are going on your usual bullshit tantrums, which I guess is easy when your nation is so boringly stable you have to rail against the past administrations of other nations just to get rid of all that pent up angst. So keep on calling people insane and throwing the insults around. It certainly makes for an intelligent arguement. Perhaps this thread will be the first one to get locked. Just keep it up. The board got close to being shut down due to this kind of nonsense.

im sorry, youre making no sense at all. this is not old news, in fact, it was released just recently. and neither is the decision to not hold people responsible for their actions old news. in fact, maybe you should get a dictionary and look up the definition of old. id like to also point that i did not in any way derail this thread with, dare i say it, old stories that had no relevancy to the topic whatsoever.

im sorry, youre making no sense at all. this is not old news, in fact, it was released just recently. and neither is the decision to not hold people responsible for their actions old news. in fact, maybe you should get a dictionary and look up the definition of old. id like to also point that i did not in any way derail this thread with, dare i say it, old stories that had no relevancy to the topic whatsoever.

See, you're wrong. It is old news, we know there was waterboarding and other things. We are rectifying the situation, we don't want to hear about it anymore. We don't torture anymore and we never should have. Bitch about bank bailouts, it's what really has the US all fucked up at the moment.

This just in: The U.S. dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August of 1945.

If the Huffington Post would have had this story at the top of the page, I wonder if Wiggo would have thought they were new news?

See, you're wrong. It is old news, we know there was waterboarding and other things. We are rectifying the situation, we don't want to hear about it anymore. We don't torture anymore and we never should have. Bitch about bank bailouts, it's what really has the US all fucked up at the moment.

yes, its old news that waterboarding did take place, what you apparently fail to understand is that the scope of the waterboarding is NOT old news, since it was not previously known.

to sixee: please go away.

Bascially we're not interested in more of your mud slinging at the American Flag. We know about the situation and would appreciate you to quit crowing about it.

Now shhhh

I've always been completely against the whole waterboarding thing. It was always clear to me that it was torture, pure and simple, which I consider to be counterproductive to everyone involved (as well as immoral). That being said, I always assumed it was carried out far more frequently and on more prisoners than seems to actually have been the case. As others have pointed out, this really isn't new shocking news, at least not to us on this side of the pond.

yes, its old news that waterboarding did take place, what you apparently fail to understand is that the scope of the waterboarding is NOT old news, since it was not previously known.

to sixee: please go away.

No I don't fail to understand that...I just don't care how many times they did it...once was one time to many. Does 100 times make it more illegal than 1 time? No...again...the situation is being handled, it's one of the reasons an overwhelming majority of Americans voted for Obama.

Do me a favor..just once in this thread say that Sweden was wrong for sending suspects to places they knew would torture them and say that Sweden was wrong for protecting known Nazi's who were wanted for war crimes...please...just do that...and no you havent done that yet.

Do me a favor..just once in this thread say that Sweden was wrong for sending suspects to places they knew would torture them and say that Sweden was wrong for protecting known Nazi's who were wanted for war crimes...please...just do that...and know you havent done that yet.

try reading my posts, mate.

No I don't fail to understand that...I just don't care how many times they did it...once was one time to many. Does 100 times make it more illegal than 1 time? No...again...the situation is being handled, it's one of the reasons an overwhelming majority of Americans voted for Obama.

100 times means it was systemic, and not some kind of bad apple situation. maybe the number shouldnt surprise me, but in a way, it does.

tell me this rover, are you happy with the way it is being dealt with? and by that i mean not dealing with it at all.

try reading my posts, mate.



100 times means it was systemic, and not some kind of bad apple situation. maybe the number shouldnt surprise me, but in a way, it does.

tell me this rover, are you happy with the way it is being dealt with? and by that i mean not dealing with it at all.


I did read your posts..you never said what Sweden did was wrong...you said you werent proud of it...but never wrong.

2 times means it was systemic...so I'll go with...whether it was 2 times or 100 times I don't care...any time it was done was illegal, wrong, counter productive, a great way to peak young muslims interest in AQ, deteriorated the US in the eyes of the world, knocked us off the moral high ground etc...but we are dealing with it...it is an evolving situation...oddly enough a not a knee jerk one.

Are you happy with the way Sweden has dealt with their relationship to torture going back over the past 65 years?

I did read your posts..you never said what Sweden did was wrong...you said you werent proud of it...but never wrong.

2 times means it was systemic...so I'll go with...whether it was 2 times or 100 times I don't care...any time it was done was illegal, wrong, counter productive, a great way to peak young muslims interest in AQ, deteriorated the US in the eyes of the world, knocked us off the moral high ground etc...but we are dealing with it...it is an evolving situation...oddly enough a not a knee jerk one.

Are you happy with the way Sweden has dealt with their relationship to torture going back over the past 65 years?

youre right, i never said it was wrong... i said this:

this is despicable

i see that youve once again gone for the "no U!" response to my question, but ill answer yours anyway; what relationship to torture? if you mean the deportation, then yes, i am happy with how it was dealt with.

They didn't deal with it Rover, hence thier youth growing up like Wiggo, full of morale indignation at the biggest kid in the playground. Wrongfully placed of course, because thier own backyard is full of half buried skeletons. It's easier to ignore your own shortcomings if you are spending your days making fun of someone else.

So the Atomic bombs being dropped on Japan were 'systemic'?

To Wiggout: Pointing fingers at others, when your own crap stinks, is a sure way to look like an idiot....

i'd like to thank fandros and sixee for sparing me the effort of insulting them by embarrassing themselves thoroughly on their own, great effort!

youre right, i never said it was wrong... i said this:



i see that youve once again gone for the "no U!" response to my question, but ill answer yours anyway; what relationship to torture? if you mean the deportation, then yes, i am happy with how it was dealt with.


No, I have not given you a "No U" response. I've addressed the US issue and I've asked you some pointed questions about Swedens involvement with Islamic Extremists and with Nazi's hiding and being protected by Sweden.

Why not answer my questions? I've answered yours.

No, I have not given you a "No U" response. I've addressed the US issue and I've asked you some pointed questions about Swedens involvement with Islamic Extremists and with Nazi's hiding and being protected by Sweden.

Why not answer my questions? I've answered yours.

no, you did not answer my question, please read my post again. ill even repeat the question here for you: tell me this rover, are you happy with the way it is being dealt with? and by that i mean not dealing with it at all.

if you are unable to decipher what the question means, you only need to ask.

i did answer your question with regards to the deported egyptians, as to the war criminals...i dont really know a lot about the situation, but:

In 1986, the Simon Wiesenthal Center exposed the presence in Sweden of several Baltic Nazi war criminals and asked the Swedish government to investigate the entry of Nazi collaborators into the country and to take legal action against those who could be brought to trial. The Swedish authorities refused to investigate, let alone prosecute these cases, citing the existing statute of limitations which prohibited the prosecution of any crimes more than 25 years after they were committed.

bold part is what you, for some reason, left out of your original quote. a statute of limitations is a statute of limitations, theres not any exceptions just because the suspect performed a particularly heinous crime.

So, Sweden gets to decide that crimes against humanity have a statute of limitations?

So, Sweden gets to decide that crimes against humanity have a statute of limitations?

yes, sixee, sweden gets to decide what the statute of limitations are in sweden. this is how laws work, you imbecile.

So then basically you have no problem with genocide if the people doing it hide out for 25 years?

No legal action is being taken against he waterboarding people, due to certain legalities or lack there of. So basically both arguments cancel each other out and leave a void....

/Thread End

yes, sixee, sweden gets to decide what the statute of limitations are in sweden. this is how laws work, you imbecile.

Are you happy about Sweden having a statute of limitations on war criminals? Shouldn't International Law be used in these cases? That would then supercede the Swedish statute of limitations on war criminals seeking protection inside of Swedish borders.

I did answer your question regarding what is being done by Obama, I will venture to say I am certain something is coming. I doubt you will see him just blow it off. Currently it seems that nothing beyond releasing reports is being done, but by judging from the handling of the past few crisis situations the administration will act and decisively. It just might not be within the timeframe you demand...kind of like a statute of limitations thing...we get to decide in this case. ;)

So then basically you have no problem with genocide if the people doing it hide out for 25 years?

No legal action is being taken against he waterboarding people, due to certain legalities or lack there of. So basically both arguments cancel each other out and leave a void....

/Thread End

?????? no, waterboarding is still illegal. that is not why no legal action is being taken. please try again.

and no, i dont feel that genocide is ok, please do stop with the weird strawmen.

Are you happy about Sweden having a statute of limitations on war criminals? Shouldn't International Law be used in these cases? That would then supercede the Swedish statute of limitations on war criminals seeking protection inside of Swedish borders.

no, im not, and yes, international law should be used, dont ask me why it hasnt.

I did answer your question regarding what is being done by Obama, I will venture to say I am certain something is coming. I doubt you will see him just blow it off. Currently it seems that nothing beyond releasing reports is being done, but by judging from the handling of the past few crisis situations the administration will act and decisively. It just might not be within the timeframe you demand...kind of like a statute of limitations thing...we get to decide in this case. ;)

well, i sincerely hope that something will be done with regards to prosecution or something equivalent, or you (and the rest of the world) runs the chance of setting a terrible terrible precedence.

The same one Sweden set....

The same one Sweden set....

he shoots he scores! sadly though, its yet another own goal.

the same one sweden set....


ouch

well, i sincerely hope that something will be done with regards to prosecution or something equivalent, or you (and the rest of the world) runs the chance of setting a terrible terrible precedence.


We all feel the same way, except the precedence part, we've only learned from others, rememebr we're only a 200 year old nation :P

There will be some blow back against those involved in carrying out the waterboarding. I am not a lawyer but venturing a guess there will be criminal proceedings and they will take time to levy. On the positive side, unlike Sweden, we have all the time in the world to build a case and prosecute, especially if the case is being based on classified documents whose subject matter may cover recent or ongoing operations. There is still the question of maintaining national security, especially if it involves CIA operatives. So, it won't happen over night.

As for the number of occasions, Wiggo, this is once again a case of there being no amount of apologising that will make these acts forgivable, to the point of it being that we just have to deal with it, move on and take the black eye. Most Americans know it went on since this story broke quite a while ago, and as was stated before, its old news in the fact that one time might as well be a thousand because there is no apologising for any amount. If you represent the typical European, than all we can say is "Yah we know you are pissed, but its still OUR problem to deal with, now butt the fuck out so we can handle this and thanks for playing". Now is the time for you to judge how we handle this and not so much on the known facts of how W. Bush and his goons smeared the good name of the US either by their actions or being so sloppy as to allow the press to get wind of them and having the arrogance to try to deny it.