http://www.nysun.com/article/66369

"It is good for Britain, Europe and the wider world that today France and Germany and the E.U. are building stronger relationships with America," Mr. Brown said. But he emphasized that it is with America, not Europe, that Britain maintains its "most important" relationship.

"The strength of our relationship with America is incredibly important to the future of the world," Mr. Brown said in an accompanying television interview with Sky News. "If we're going to rebuild the international institutions as I think we should be doing, to meet the challenges of the next stage, then we want to work with America to enable us to do so."

Such is the low esteem of America that our closest allies are fighting to be our bestest friend.

Bill Clinton's world tour to repair relations is going to be a short one.

http://www.nysun.com/article/66369



Such is the low esteem of America that our closest allies are fighting to be our bestest friend.

Bill Clinton's world tour to repair relations is going to be a short one.

Fer' crying out loud, Akipt, he has been out of office for 7 years and you are still wanting to badger the guy. You need to find a new hobby.

'But he emphasized that it is with America, not Europe, that Britain maintains its "most important" relationship.'

- He says.. while signing the closest binding EU treaty ever for Britain in Lisbon a few weeks ago.
I don't think many people consider the EU a 'foreign' entity anymore. As guarded and as fierce as Britons are of their independence and soverignity, we are part of the EU now, one of its leading players, and the Lisbon Treaty in December must remove the last barriers of the EU 'other'. We can no longer consider it something apart from us. So there is no real competition between the EU and America, as the EU does not fall in to that category, really. And soon I expect America must treat with the EU, if it wishes to treat with Britain - perhaps in the next two or so decades.

Sad? Historically, sure. But as most of you know, I think the EU will be a real power for good. We'll see, eh.

Fer' crying out loud, Akipt, he has been out of office for 7 years and you are still wanting to badger the guy. You need to find a new hobby.

If you hadn't noticed, he's currently running for office again.

Is someone going to try and say he's not really running, and Hillary will not use him as an advisor, Ect, Ect?
Personally, I think we could do worse, such as Hillary actually thinking she's the one in charge, and not the "man behind the drapes".

In case you missed it Byl, this is what I was being snarky about:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/18/bill-clinton-george-hw-bush-will-help-president-hillary/

ORANGEBURG, South Carolina (CNN) – Former President Bill Clinton said Monday that the first thing his wife Hillary will do when she reaches the White House is dispatch him and his predecessor, President George H.W. Bush, on an around-the-world mission to repair the damage done to America's reputation by the current president — Bush's son, George W. Bush.

"Well, the first thing she intends to do, because you can do this without passing a bill, the first thing she intends to do is to send me and former President Bush and a number of other people around the world to tell them that America is open for business and cooperation again," Clinton said in response to a question from a supporter about what his wife's "number one priority" would be as president.

A spokesman for the George H. W. Bush said Tuesday afternoon the former president supports his son's foreign policy and has "never discussed an ‘around-the-world-mission’ with either former President Bill Clinton or Sen. Clinton." Rather, I think it's Bill who needs to find a new hobby.

But as most of you know, I think the EU will be a real power for good.Sorry Halo missed this.

I sure hope so. As long as the Chiracs and Shroeders are a thing of the past, but I somehow doubt it.

It's not terribly surprising or worthy of celebration that our closest allies are...our closest allies. Pretty speeches may make our hearts warm with comraderie, but they don't amount to much in practice. Agreements on policy, trade breakthroughs, coordination of intervention and other actions taken up together -- with new as well as long-time allies -- are worth bringing out the party hats.

But it's nice for Brown to express this sentiment.

Whenever Halo starts talking about the EU, The only thing that comes to mind is Scene 3 of Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

http://www.mwscomp.com/movies/grail/grail-03.htm

If you hadn't noticed, he's currently running for office again.


Given the slate of candidates in the race right now, if you remove McCain from the picture, I would almost prefer old Bill to any of the rest.

I'd vote for him before I voted for his wife.

Clinton is the man. Anyone who doesn't think our reputation has taken a huge hit within the international community needs to pull their head out of their ass. And no, posting a feel good quote from our biggest ally does not do anything to change this.

P.S. The vitriol towards Clinton is always amusing from you guys. Care to explain why you feel so strongly against him? I believe last time the answers provided didn't amount to much more than OMG BOSNIA and some other shit that he didn't really have control over - put some more effort into it this time. Bonus points if you don't have to fall back on Lewinsky.

"Care to explain why you feel so strongly against him?"


I tend to dislike liars, http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,35470,00.html, and rapists (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ix1uCqKzVI), but perhaps that's just me. Bonus points for me; no Lewinsky mention.

How fitting.

A politician that lies. Wow. If that's half of your argument against Clinton then you've already lost. If being truthful is a criterion for winning your vote, I assume that you just don't vote at all.

Unfounded rape accusations? This doesn't even require additional comment.

Edit: I suppose I should clarify. I could attack Bush on a moralistic level, yet it is so much more effect to point to the numerous policy failures that he has carried out under his horrible administration. I've yet to encounter a Republican who can logically criticize the Clinton administration without falling back on the same old tired bs.

Halo.

EU isnt a "power", it is an economic agreement. It isnt one nation. There is a common currency so it is a little tighter than saying "the West" or "NATO", but all you did was replace the dollar for all intents and purposes. Maybe itll last 10 years, maybe itll last 300, but the only tie they have to each other is profitability.

EU =/= Nation.

So I guess Clinton is pretty cool since no one can say shit about him. :rolleyes:

Clinton is like teflon. There's plenty that you can throw at him, it just slides off.

My buddy got this up on drudge report today:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0108/Bill_does_a_Rudy.html

Clinton is so cute :)

I like Bill.

Bill is my friend.

Rape is pretty cool Ainwen? Interesting...

Rape is pretty cool Ainwen? Interesting...


I have seen a whole lot of people accused of a whole lot of things in my years. The only stuff that matters is that which is proven. Karma will have it's due in the end, as O.J. is showing at the present.

As we all now have seen, there was a group in the Republican party that was willing to spend as much tax-payer money as needed to find something to dscredit Bill Clinton with, and in the end it was a simple case of infidelity that they settled for, being unable to gather sufficient evidence for any of the other allegations they chased.

Bill Clinton lied to the American people about cheating on his wife.

The Republican party (ala Gingrich, Hyde, Starr, Lott, and a number of others) were deceitful with the American people regarding the motivation for setting up a Special Prosecutor in the first place, and then allowing the investigators to continually change the focus of the investigation when it was not getting anywhere. They did a great job of spinning the 90's to look like a bad Clinton presidency rather than a terrible Congressional period.

And of course, the rules for appointing a special prosecutor were changed as soon as Bush was elected. Yeah, lots of integrity in the good old Republican party the last two decades.

Sorry for the rant/derail.

"Bill Clinton lied to the American people about cheating on his wife."

He lied under oarth in a deposition regarding a lawsuit for his sexual harassment of Paula Jones, which was eventually settled. None of which is relevant to him raping a different woman.

Teflon.

Guilty until proven innocent in Furtivus' court of law? Disregard the lack of evidence, or that she waited 17 years to mention it to anyone?

"Bill Clinton lied to the American people about cheating on his wife."

He lied under oarth in a deposition regarding a lawsuit for his sexual harassment of Paula Jones, which was eventually settled. None of which is relevant to him raping a different woman.

From a legal standpoint, isn't the above quote considered slander, or libelous?

The claim that Bill Clinton raped a woman, which has not been proven that I am aware of, would seem to qualify as slander. But I am just an untrained observer, without any formal education in the practice of law.

I would think that words like "allegedly", or "being accused of", might be of a more proper nature, and showing less personal bias.

Please..

Nobody who isnt a ideologue wingnut believes Clinton ever raped anyone. Just stop with that Tin Foil Clinton Derangement Syndrome crap before you next start telling us how he arranged for the murder of Vince Foster.

Its fucking comical at this point.

"From a legal standpoint, isn't the above quote considered slander, or libelous?"

Truth is an absolute defense to slander and libel. Llibel is written and slander is spoken btw.

She said he raped her, and I found her "testimony" believable. I don't know whether he denied it (I assume he has). He's an admitted perjurer with an admitted pattern and practice of that type of behavior. You choose who you want to believe.

"From a legal standpoint, isn't the above quote considered slander, or libelous?"

Truth is an absolute defense to slander and libel. Llibel is written and slander is spoken btw.

She said he raped her, and I found her "testimony" believable. I don't know whether he denied it (I assume he has). He's an admitted perjurer with an admitted pattern and practice of that type of behavior. You choose who you want to believe.

You found her testimony believable, therefore it is fact. My my, you really are full of yourself, aren't you?

Is it any less "full of yourself" to believe he didn't rape her?
You find his denial believable, so it is fact.

It's not like the's actually going to come out and say. "Oh yeah, I raped her, my bad." Of course he's going to deny it...LOL.

Regardless, the man was a decent President, whether he could keep his "Slick Willie" in his pants, or not.

Actually Sixee you seemed to miss the whole part that people should be held innocently until the burden of proof is met. You know, the whole justice for all part.

Actually Sixee you seemed to miss the whole part that people should be held innocently until the burden of proof is met. You know, the whole justice for all part.
OJ for President!

Actually Sixee you seemed to miss the whole part that people should be held innocently until the burden of proof is met. You know, the whole justice for all part.

Oh, dear, I thought this was the Court of Public Opinion, not the Court of Law.....

Charges were never brought. If she had a case it certainly would have been more of an issue but she probably just wanted attention. Its equally as likely she was the father of Anna Nicoles' baby.

'Halo.

EU isnt a "power", it is an economic agreement. It isnt one nation. There is a common currency so it is a little tighter than saying "the West" or "NATO", but all you did was replace the dollar for all intents and purposes. Maybe itll last 10 years, maybe itll last 300, but the only tie they have to each other is profitability.

EU =/= Nation.'

- Uhh I don't know how I missed this, but sorry, I did.

The EU is a bloc of states bound by commerce, trade, and currency - right now. So yeah, I agree. But I never called it a nation. The EU, as a definition, can never be a nation.

But its plans for a shared foreign policy, a European constitution, free border zones and more integrated membership will evolve it far beyond a mere trading bloc.
I think it will be one of those entities that grows in relation to the events around it. Let's see how the EU responds to a rising China, a declining US, and other integrating supra-bloc trading states, ie Latin America, the Middle East, etc.

Oh, dear, I thought this was the Court of Public Opinion, not the Court of Law.....

When an individual whose daily work involves law makes a libelous statement and supports it with an asinine statement that it is not libelous because he believed her testimony and it is therefore true, I guess the lines are blurred somewhat.

And the court of public opinion is irrelevant in a case where charges are never even brought; as has been pointed out, if there was sufficient basis to believe the accusation there would have been a bit more followup, both in the court of law and the court of public opinion. It is only held onto as a last resort by those who bought into the whole Gingrich-Hyde "get Clinton at all costs" program. I pity those folks for having so little depth.

'Halo.

EU isnt a "power", it is an economic agreement. It isnt one nation. There is a common currency so it is a little tighter than saying "the West" or "NATO", but all you did was replace the dollar for all intents and purposes. Maybe itll last 10 years, maybe itll last 300, but the only tie they have to each other is profitability.

EU =/= Nation.'

- Uhh I don't know how I missed this, but sorry, I did.

The EU is a bloc of states bound by commerce, trade, and currency - right now. So yeah, I agree. But I never called it a nation. The EU, as a definition, can never be a nation.

But its plans for a shared foreign policy, a European constitution, free border zones and more integrated membership will evolve it far beyond a mere trading bloc.
I think it will be one of those entities that grows in relation to the events around it. Let's see how the EU responds to a rising China, a declining US, and other integrating supra-bloc trading states, ie Latin America, the Middle East, etc.


The EU response to China will indeed be interesting to watch, both in terms of trade and also regarding the massive pollution being produced by the ever-growing Chinese manufacturing base. In terms of trade, how will the EU deal with the Chinese business of exporting fake merchandise? Many area of potential interest in the coming decade.

"asinine statement that it is not libelous because he believed her testimony and it is therefore true."

Where in the world are you getting that connection? I said truth was a defense to libel (it is if you continue to doubt that). My belief in her statements may go toward a defense of "fair comment regarding a public concern", and therefore my belief in that statement may make it "not libelous" but it has nothing to do with the underlying truth.

'The EU response to China will indeed be interesting to watch, both in terms of trade and also regarding the massive pollution being produced by the ever-growing Chinese manufacturing base. In terms of trade, how will the EU deal with the Chinese business of exporting fake merchandise? Many area of potential interest in the coming decade.'

- We've already had this one. There was a trade crisis in 2005 called the 'Bra Wars' in which Chinese imports of cheap textiles were stopped at the docks by the then Minister for trade, an English chap called Mandelson. The problem is China has displaced the US as Europe's largest import partner (creating a deficit of roughly 60 billion pounds) - which is all fine and well, but EU tariff's dictated that, to make sure the deficit does not get out of control, each member state had a quota of Chinese goods it could import a year.
But Chinese imports grow roughly 20% a year and in 2005 particularly came flooding in. Mandelson controversially stopped Chinese shipments in their tracks and for a while tensions were high until a new deal could be hammered out (called the 'bra wars' as jokingly one of those Chinese shipments was a boat load of cheap bra's waiting in the channel to dock in England and unload).

Anywho, the EU quota on Chinese goods (Multi-Fibre Agreement) was scrapped and instead certain provisions pinned the Chinese to be more responsible and cautious with their exports.

The episode is just one of many around the world, all of which have in common China's growing export industry with its immature perspective on economic responsibility. It's part of the WTO - it has to act so.

So yeah - I think the EU response to China is interesting, and will continue to be so. There is of course the arms ban in place, which China itches under. But with states like France and Italy who are quite protectionist, and others like Britain and Germany who are more free trade economies, I see a mixed reaction to the increasing Chinese trade relationship.

Let's just hope we can stop the growing deficit and avoid it becoming a trillion dollars like the US.

Yeah, so again, Clinton is the man and no one can say otherwise.

At this point I don't care if the President likes to rape sheep as long as he can protect civil liberties, not get us into stupid wars, and avoid amassing a 9 TRILLION dollar deficit, largely owned by countries such as China.

I don't look to the state for my morality, and neither should you. Unfortunately a large portion of the country does - we call them Republicans. ;)

P.S. The Republican thing was a complete joke. Don't h8!