Look! A new topic.

Sure, VA will eventually get a VT clearing. VA eventually gets to whatever it is we set our minds to. What we lack is a 'progress at all costs' mentality. What we have is a 'we will do it our way, and take all our mates with us' mentality.

VA is a raid guild in that most of our members are happiest when we (and I paraphrase poorly here) "get shit dead".

VA is a casual guild in that schleps like me with a running 15% raid attendance are valued and welcomed. Say what you like about 'max and the officers, but without them a lot of us wouldn't ever be able to see the places we have seen or own the things we have.

There's a solid core to VA that won't give up. Tenacity and dogged determination are core values that drive us. We will race you to a spawn, we will try to assemble the forces to take it first, sure. But, failing that, we will wait for our opportunity and seize it with the same enthusiasm we had raiding Kael. Some things never change.

Bottom line: sure, VA will get a VT clearing. In our way and in our time.

Dfrac

Stop being positive...this is NAG dammit!!!

WTF why do we need a new topic.. STICK TO THE OLD DAMN IT!

I like Pie.

Apple Pie ..... (Dusk Till Dawn).

Reason, how many times do I have to tell you?

There is a difference between pie pie, and ass pie. :o

Nooooo bradly, you are thinking about cake....

Pie > Cake

GOKUU KS MY MOBS AND STOLE MY PLATS

not like thats a sekrit =(

Oh, my bad.

i like poontang pie.

I think you like strudels more.

You got one yesterday. Time to move along to the next Profound Flame Topic of The Month.

Nice hijack... Ummm pie sounds good...

not today...

Yeah, Bos, you're right. Not today.

Care to tell the masses why not?

Enlighten us to your version, I'm sure it will be colorful.

I'm waiting for the 'video' edition myself.

Yes tell us why.

Aoneiel Madfaulker

No, no, no. I don't know what you're talking about. I wasn't implying anything.

The question is there, plain English.

Care to tell us why not?

Because your tank went LD Blob 1 spun around and fluxed your raid to the east door which caused 5 4 - arms to add, and you couldn't handle them.

Or the grassy knoll crowd that were whining last night say they have the eq version of the Zapruder film. Of a bard training them...although we didn't even have a bard online last night when you wiped.

/shrug

Rigin

Oh ya then you tried to get a coth team set up to pass us and wiped doing that too. Nice of that GM to rez your mag though huh?

Blob spun and fluxed us. Yep.

Rigin, you are teh win one. Ding, ding, ding.

Of course, you fail to mention that you guys CoTH'd to Blob 1 while we had it engaged with the same number of people we killed it with last time.

One of your own officers said this on this very board:

We see a target, we move to it, if VA beats us with a raid force sufficient to succesfully engage and hopefully kill the target, we move on, just as we did in the emp room.

Nice to know your officers are totally full of shit, since last night you CoTHed into Blob 1's room while we had it engaged.

Maybe I should post the logs of FD bitching RIP out in Tactics for doing the exact same thing that FD did to us last night.

Or how about the logs of one of your officers demanding that we stay out of your line of sight at Blob 1 or the zone in while you guys killed DXXT, despite the fact that FD couldn't be bothered to show us the same courtesy?

Not to mention the fact that FD was trailing us closely last week while we killed TVK.

You need to ask your officers why they continually put your guild in compromising positions. You didn't have to CoTH to Blob 1 while we were fighting. You could have waited at the zonein (like one of your officers demanded that we do) if you though we were going to fail, and then your guild would have been above suspicion.

Oh, and your claim about how the wipe happend? Wrong. Blob1 G Fluxed AFTER the train hit. No one got thrown towards the east door before the train. However, we can clearly see someone run from where FD had CoTH'd behind us east towards the door along the north side of the room. Shortly thereafter, the train hit.

Oh, we do have a full-res vid cap of the battle. Unfortunately, the raw data is 2GB, which isn't exactly easy to send around the Internet, so all we've been able to see so far are low-bitrate encodings of it. The video I've seen isn't good enough to tell the class of the suspected trainer, but it is clear enough to cast serious doubts on your G Flux theory.

Yeah, we wiped. We had 22 people in there and had 4 or 5 mobs suddenly show up. ~25 people isn't enough to handle the Blob and 4-5 adds. We've never denied any of our wipes on this board, though... it's your officers that were doing that.

And the CoTH wipe? Your mage was blocking the view of our mage, so we couldn't see when the roamer up there was.

Not to mention the fact that FD was trailing us closely last week while we killed TVK.

No...we werent trailing you. That's just not true.

Last week you guys got VT, even after you wiped we didn't move on it. I spoke with your officer on at the time and agreed with him we would not take the spawn. I did however say if you guy's were to wipe again we would most likey Coth and complete the clearing. It was settled amiably and done with respect.

As far as you guy's wiping on Blob1, this happens, sometimes you wipe, sometimes you don't.

Did your tank go LD? I'm just curious, not being able to see your raid chat I have only to go by what was said.

I think the only thing that I was kind of miffed at, was that you guy's chose to initially blame me for your wipe, not quite sure how I would have done that or who in FD would have created your condition. We were west of the mob, in our coth spot, yet the mob's came from the east.

But honestly, using the example of, why would we coth if you were there, well, why have you cothed when we've been there?

Bottom line is, you got a GM to come there, not a guide but a REAL GM. The GM found in our favor. Isn't the reason why you got the GM, to be the final decision on the matter?

Really sorry you guys wiped. We had a good old fashioned race going and VA felt they had a suffient force and engaged. Got adds and wiped. After we cleared aggro we engaged then had to wait for coth to get set up. Once again you rushed and had no spotter for the roamer and lost your coth link. We WILL race you its just part of the game. But you have no reason to say we caused your wipe or trained you. You petitioned the GM and he straightened it all out and we moved on. I personally like having competion in VT maybe it will spice it up abit.

Happy VT hunting :)

Aoneiel Madfaulker
Final Destiny

Buadyen,

I'm sorry to tell you, but we already had 30+ people in Blob1 room when you engaged. We had 40 in zone, were very near complete with COTH, and were in the process of setting up raid groups as well. You had 23 in zone when you engaged. I'm not certain how many VA were still at the zone line, because I was staring at the blob. In fact, we were within about 15 seconds of engaging blob1 ourselves, when Nikon was sent in.

Nobody from FD had any involvement or intention of causing you to wipe. If by some odd chance it WAS an FD member that knowingly caused something like that to happen, to anyone, 99% of our members would be very, very, very upset about it - and most likely would help you recover so that you could take another shot. That's just how the mass majority of us are.

So hate us all you want. Continue to blame your misfortunes or screw-ups on us all you want. It won't change anything, in the long run. We know who we are and where we're headed, and we will not be hindered by any of this lame ranting on this stupid board.

Yes, you will eventually get a full clearing of VT. When you do, I will applaude you for your hard work and dedication. I can't say as much from the forces that worked so hard to keep us out of VT when we first started. But your day will come. And regardless of whether VA actually succeeds in clearing VT before FD has completed our tour, remember that at some point we WILL complete our tour, and leave it open and uncontested for the next guild who's ready for it. Just like EW, IvM, SoT, and RIP has, so shall we.

But be warned. I hear that RIP intends to go back soon. It's just a rumor I think right now, but time will tell.

No...we werent trailing you. That's just not true.

Chenoa, stop lying. While we were killing TVK, our members were noticing an unusual amount of lag for the number of people we had there. One of our necros sat down while in lich form and got a nice look through the floor down into DXXT's area, and what did he see? FD's raid force sitting there. (We have that on video, too, btw ;) )

Don't have your officers demand for us to do something when you guys are incapable of doing the same thing.

Last week you guys got VT, even after you wiped we didn't move on it. I spoke with your officer on at the time and agreed with him we would not take the spawn. I did however say if you guy's were to wipe again we would most likey Coth and complete the clearing. It was settled amiably and done with respect.

Yes, this much is true. You left after we killed TVK and didn't come back that night.

I think the only thing that I was kind of miffed at, was that you guy's chose to initially blame me for your wipe, not quite sure how I would have done that or who in FD would have created your condition. We were west of the mob, in our coth spot, yet the mob's came from the east.

Blame you? No, we blamed your guild. Maybe you and the other FD officers should learn to stop putting your guild into positions where people might suspect foul play.

Of course the mobs would have come from the east no matter how they were aggroed since that's where the door is and the mobs were.

But honestly, using the example of, why would we coth if you were there, well, why have you cothed when we've been there?

Name one instance where we CoTHed an entire mob-killing force to the same spot where you were when you guys already had that mob engaged.

Oh, that one night where both guilds sat in Blob 1's room waiting for it to spawn? That doesn't count since there was no mob for either one of us to have engaged.

Bottom line is, you got a GM to come there, not a guide but a REAL GM. The GM found in our favor. Isn't the reason why you got the GM, to be the final decision on the matter?

You guys got lucky on this. Without a /report, they aren't going to do much, and most people probably have their filters set to a level such that only a direct "Ha ha, I trained you" /tell would be something reportable. Not to mention the fact that chain aggro can cause a train from far enough away that no one would have caught anything reportable anyway.

And the CoTH wipe? Your mage was blocking the view of our mage, so we couldn't see when the roamer up there was.

Ok, Sorry I didn't see this before.

Now that is purely lame. Our mage was logged in, you guys logged your mage in. I find it terribly funny you are blaming this on us. Get a grip, you fucked up, you blew it. This though takes the cake.


You actually have the pure audacity to blame your mage aggroing a mob on us? That takes a large set of brass balls for sure.

You guys got lucky on this.

No, you just got aggro and wiped. We didn't get lucky, you just simply got aggro and wiped.

And the CoTH wipe? Your mage was blocking the view of our mage, so we couldn't see when the roamer up there was.

You should have just looked at your showeq map.

blame Thana for the train !

Arch Lich Thana

Can we just all get drunk and see who can pee the farthest? :rolleyes

Aoneiel Madfaulker
Final Destiny

While we were killing TVK, our members were noticing an unusual amount of lag for the number of people we had there. One of our necros sat down while in lich form and got a nice look through the floor down into DXXT's area, and what did he see? FD's raid force sitting there.

This is true. However, the only way your raid would have been able to see us would have been (as you pointed out) someone in skeleton form able to see through the floor. We were NOT in your immediate line of sight. We were a floor below you. Vex Thal has a tendency to get laggy and slow when more than 80 or so are in the zone, sure...However, we respected you enough to give you a second shot at VT that night after you had already wiped once. We were not sure how well you would handle Thall Va Kelun, so we hung around to see if you would wipe. Your officers did agree with this, and we held to our word...that we would leave the zone if you did not wipe to TVK.

Don't have your officers demand for us to do something when you guys are incapable of doing the same thing.

I was the officer that did ask for the GM to ensure this. Blob1 is the starter for Vex Thal. We had a sufficient raid force in the zone to go from Blob1 all the way to AHR (which, by the way, hadn't spawned yet) and so we began CotH to Blob1. Your guild engaged with ~24 people before we finished preparations. I simply asked the GM (since we had, by now, killed the first blob) to ensure that Vallis was not in our immediate line of sight as was done last week with us in the DXXT room while VA was in the TVK hall.

You guys got lucky on this. Without a /report, they aren't going to do much, and most people probably have their filters set to a level such that only a direct "Ha ha, I trained you" /tell would be something reportable. Not to mention the fact that chain aggro can cause a train from far enough away that no one would have caught anything reportable anyway.

As an officer of FD, I try to make sure I know everything that is happening within our raid at any given time...With that said, to my knowledge none of the members of FD had anything to do with that train. However, I do not completely rule out the possibility, I only state that it is highly unlikely that any of our members did anything to obstruct your killing of Blob1.

And the CoTH wipe? Your mage was blocking the view of our mage, so we couldn't see when the roamer up there was.

Oh, please...Don't even try to blame your screw up on us. That will just not fly. You screwed up, got aggro, and got your DXXT mage killed. Which brings me to this...After our DXXT kill, it appeared that the GM dragged your mage out and resurrected him . I'd just like a little clarification there.

-Mezzmoron

As mentioned already but it is easy to overlook. The majority of FD would TL and leave the RAID if we believed for a minute we assisted with what wiped you guys.

We got screwed over ,trained, leapfrogged and such by XA and then RIP so much, the majority of us are hypersensitive to even looking like we would do it to another guild. As of late when we get to VA and we are both setting up, there is considerable discussion from members asking "What are the state of negotiations with VA...don't want to even give the appearance of RIP behavior".

There will always be situations like last night where the slightness error (we think the flux got you aggro thru the door). But if you think someone in FD did it on purpose you are mistaken because if they did the majority would leave (gate) then. There would be considerable discussion on our FD boards along the lines of "If one of our members pull that crap either kick them or alot of us will deguild because we will not be associated with RIP like behavior"

I have been in FD for years now and every now and then I get tell asking if I would consider coming to a new guild the answer is always the same " I will leave if they ever ask me to or if we ever started screwing over folks" Most in FD are the same.

As far as the Blob1 engage...

FD did NOT have a full raid or even most of one at blob 1 when I told our tank to engage. They had 4 people at blob 1 when we engaged (we had 25 at blob 1 at the time - the same number we had killed blob1 with the previous week). FD also only had 23 in zone at the time we engaged. They continued to flood in during our fight. Obviously I was watching FD very closely as their intention to kill blob1 despite our raid force being there was obvious.

They then continued to CotH into the blob 1 room throughout our fight, causing increased lag.

This of course directly contradicts what Chenoa had said (as buadyen quoted above).

I just want to know why you continued CotH'ing into the blob1 room after we engaged? You could have had the mob if we wiped by staying at the zoneline. Also, this would have prevented any accusation of you training us. The only reason I could see that you would want to coth in is to provide extra lag, which is honestly just rude, but as FD members like to point out - technically not against the rules.

The amusing part is that you then ordered us to stay out of the line of sight when you engaged DXXT.

We havent ever done that to you.. We even stayed out of Tactics during your RZ attempt, to minimize your lag. We kept an entire raid force waiting at the tactics stone in consideration, waiting for you to finish your attempt, even though we wanted to move on one of the Zek brothers. Why do you not show us this same consideration? It costs you nothing to do so.

We coth'd into the blob1 room that one time, yes. Blob1 hadnt spawned and we desired to contest the mob. That is a normal thing.

If FD showed us a little consideration, there would likely be less animosity between us. Also, it would remove most of the possibilities of the accusations you seem to have levied against you.

And, the final question that myself, my guild, other guilds, and many of your own members want to know: Why arent you raiding the ele planes? You've killed RZ (at least) 3 times, and have cleared VT, what? 20ish times now?

Oh, as far as the Grav Flux theory. The video shows clearly that a Grav flux happened AFTER the train occured.. it's known by anyone that engages Blob 1 that it grav fluxes about every minute or so, give or take. DEFINITELY no grav flux happened for at least 19 seconds before the train (the length of the clip - the owner trimmed it down so that we could view that portion - only 80MB's :) ), and most likely for at least a minute prior.

It's very clear in the video, it wasnt a grav flux that got us the train.

FD had as many members at the Blob1 area as VA and yes we were still cothing in during your attempt but this has to do with what? You folks were also cothing during your attempt. After the length of time it took VA to get blob1 90% we had pretty well guessed it was going to be a close fight for you as we have done this mob once or twice in the last 6 months. I was watching when the adds came in and I couldnt tell you what caused it. It was said in our raid and guild channels at the same time the adds came that your MT went LD. I had Nikon targetted the entire fight and lost my target about the time the adds came but not sure if that was from death or not. My reason for this was to take aggro if you wiped and buy others time if/when the blob started summoning as I was the MT at the time.

Hope things go smoother today. ;)

We even stayed out of Tactics during your RZ attempt, to minimize your lag. We kept an entire raid force waiting at the tactics stone in consideration, waiting for you to finish your attempt, even though we wanted to move on one of the Zek brothers.


So I'm guessing the 50+ in zone at that time were not in your raid force?

Back and to the left,

Back and to the left,

Back and to the left,

Back and to the left,

Back and to the left,

Back and to the left,

Back and to the left,

Back and to the left,

Back and to the left,

Back and to the left,

Rigin

What you can clearly see from the video is someone (A non-robe wearer mid-sized race) running from FD's cubby to the door with the aggro mobs on the other side...about 4 seconds later, the mobs come running to the blob. About 3-4 seconds AFTER the mobs pound us, Blob1 grav fluxes (again...very long refresh on it...so blaming it on the grav flux is impossible). We'll provide something tasty when the appropriate authorities give the go ahead. You can also see from the perspective that no one else gets close to the door.

What is obvious from the video is that you can see no one from blob or the cubby VA was in go anywhere near the door.

Chenoa, you're mistaken about the events of that night in Tactics.

That night, FD made two attempts on RZ.

The first failure of the night is the one Jensae is referring to. We waited outside of Tactics while you ran the script, except for a couple of people who stayed in the zone at the graveyard to monitor things.

When you failed that first time, we moved on Tallon Zek. While we were moving south towards Tallon, you guys regrouped for another run at the RZ script.

That's when RIP showed up and the highly amusing /ooc bitchfest happened.

Any chance we can get a link/view this video clip? I was not on so all this is news to me. This is my first knowledge of this train happening. I would like to see any incriminating evidence showing one of our memebers training you during your attempt at blob 1.

To sum it up,

Vallis Aspectus says:

blahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahbl ahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahbl ahblahblah trained us blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahbl ahblahblahblahblahblah coth mage couldnt see blahblahblahblah its FD's Fault blahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah blahblahblahblahblahblah sucks blahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahbl ahblah blahblah chenoa blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahbl ahblah
blahblahblahblah blahblah wiped blahblahblah blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblah we never wipe we are VA blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah video blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblah perfect blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah lag blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblah we respect blahblahblahblahblah blahblahblahblahblahblahblah we don't ninja only by accident blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah blahblahblahblahblahblahblah go kill other mobs blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblah we only lie by omission blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblah its not really a lie blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah
blahblahblahblahblahblah

Horizontal scrolls bars are evil - Vhex

Any chance we can get a link/view this video clip?

I believe they said they need to ermmm edit the video before it will show an FD member training them.

The sheer bullshit on this thread is rediculous. first of all VA you gusy did not fuckign engage while we had 4 people in VT . . .we were both CoHing simultanously and you guys engaged when nearly our whole raid was up. Stop those lies right there.

As for the grassy gnoll train theory, the Akhevans never attacked any member of fd .. so if someoen trained you . .it;d have to be a bard/rogue or FD class. So take a look at yer video again and decipher the race/sex of the mysterious trainer and put a fuckign name on this thread . .or better yet. . post the video somewhere for EVERYONE to watch.

As for budayens other comments about us CoHing to you guys already engeged on mobs . .EMP the 3 times i;ve been in the raid we coh'd up and you guys were either in rug room sitting on your asses, or engaging insignia nameds for keys . . we never dropped in while you were actually engaged with Blood or emp.

We show up . .you know we can take the mobs with quite a bit fewer numbers thabn you guys .. you guys get scared and engage early with inaddequate resources . .you guys wipe, or int he case of emp, you kill blood and then bail so we can;t engage emp.. and then balme us.

I could really give a fuck about the little pissing match you and chenoa have, but for everyone elses sake .. stop making up wacky stories as excuses for yer wipe.

Oh and for the *blind mage* excuse . .F9 usualyl helps you see around toons in front of you . . .fuckign idiots.


If anyone would like to mail me a hardcopy of this historic *video* please let me know .. i;d be happy to paypal postage AND the cost of the balnk videotape so i can watch the l337 FD train.

Yajj

After they release the video, I will alter it and Towely in as the one making the train.

Won't you take me to, the funky town!

Wow, only page 3, and Chenoa's already resorting to her "deny, deny, deny, lie, lie, lie, find a new insult" pattern.

Hmm... her posting style also looks very similar to Primo's... hmm...

Well, at least she figured out how to not spam her oversized sig all over the thread.

We show up . .you know we can take the mobs with quite a bit fewer numbers thabn you guys .. you guys get scared and engage early with inaddequate resources . .you guys wipe, or int he case of emp, you kill blood and then bail so we can;t engage emp.. and then balme us.

Show me a case where we killed the Blood of Ssraeshza and then bailed so that you guys couldn't engage the Emperor.

Oh wait, you can't! It never happened!

first of all VA you gusy did not fuckign engage while we had 4 people in VT - Yajj
They had 4 people at blob 1 when we engaged
I NEVER said that you had 4 people IN VT, I said AT blob1.

I DID say that:
FD also only had 23 in zone at the time we engaged

Learn to read before flaming.

Also, it doesnt HAVE to be a FD class to train.. the trainer just dies if they dont have FD.. 96% rezzes make it not much of a sacrifice.

I said we had close to equal numbers at Blob1 when you engaged Jen. I was in a full grp myself.

Aon

I could really give a fuck about the little pissing match you and chenoa have, but for everyone elses sake .. stop making up wacky stories as excuses for yer wipe.

Heh, believe it or not, Chenoa and I can actually have civilized conversations.

I'd post the logs, but I'm not at home, and I don't think anyone would believe them anyway :) .

(They have a very "Twilight Zone"-ish feeling about them, especially when you consider the pissing matches here..)

The video will be made available after we get done with the hires master 2gig copy and reduce it enough to be downloadable *and* viewable. The 2meg copy we have makes it hard to tell who or even what color the person running from the FD cubby to the door is.

Hopefully, it won't be one of us =). I doubt it, tho...as we'd know we had to drag someone from that door who was dead. Additionally, the person would have had to have moved around to FD's cubby off the side of the camera...then make a beeline for the door. I can't think of anyone in the guild who would go all the way around Blob1 and train us so that we can come to ARo and start up a nag post. I think we'd all rather have the loot.

The sheer bullshit on this thread is rediculous. first of all VA you gusy did not fuckign engage while we had 4 people in VT . . .we were both CoHing simultanously and you guys engaged when nearly our whole raid was up. Stop those lies right there.

Wtf? I was one of the mages CoTHing, and we where up first, we had 90% of our force up there by the time you started to CoTH.

Holy god these threads are as long and redundant as a VT clearing.

Also, it doesnt HAVE to be a FD class to train.. the trainer just dies if they dont have FD.. 96% rezzes make it not much of a sacrifice.

Then show us a *insertfdmembernamehere* has been killed by Eom Va Liako . . .that;s about the easiest proof of trains you can get, don't ya think? . . .rather than editing a *video* and all that bs.

Wtf? I was one of the mages CoTHing, and we where up first, we had 90% of our force up there by the time you started to CoTH.
so one of you says you have 90% there. . . .

Of course, you fail to mention that you guys CoTH'd to Blob 1 while we had it engaged with the same number of people we killed it with last time.

and another says it was engaged. . .well which one is it? .. i was like the 12+ person CoH'd and i saw an unaggro'd blob when i got up . .i got invited to raid on BOTH of my toons up there and the raid was at least 4 groups by then . .only AFTER that did i see Nikon engage

we were both up there with kill-capable forces when you guys engaged .. . difference is .. for us kill-capable defines as 20 peeps. .for you it;s more like 26-32.

Heh, believe it or not, Chenoa and I can actually have civilized conversations.

OMFG you blew it for us.


Any who...send me a tell...lets get over this crap and move on.


sig added to annoy those who get annoyed at my sig

borb (lyrik ?) said:

What you can clearly see from the video is someone (A non-robe wearer mid-sized race) running from FD's cubby to the door with the aggro mobs on the other side...about 4 seconds later, the mobs come running to the blob. About 3-4 seconds AFTER the mobs pound us, Blob1 grav fluxes

that almost sounds like a va officer not blaming Thana ! but then, I'm sure some one will point out that Thana could always take off her robe to look like a monk.

Arch Lich Thana

I think we'd all rather have the loot.

The loot sucked yesterday.

I'm not a video wiz, I don't know much about editing, I just very recently got into recording mobs we do, and FD happens to be around a lot. I figured taking out Blob 1 with 17 was a pretty impressive task.

Not having a T1 Line at my house uploading 2 gigs takes quite awhile. So until that finishes and the real video experts can play around and enlarge/sharpen things that frankly I can't do, here is a link to the index of files in a WMV format. don't ask me why but the files don't show as mwv, but they are. rightclick the name and savetarget. Running the file in windows media player 9 should work fine.

Take from this what you will

here (http://imaginenet.us/Vannmovie)

That 5 frame per minute video pwns!

http://www.imaginenet.us/Vannmovie/Thebraden.jpg

FUCK ME RUNNING, THAT SAYS THEBLAIRWITCH

Someone kill emp so I can ninja a rift. 8(

I'm going to have the 500M version of Aurom's video (trimmed to length) in the morning. I'm afraid he's on cable, and, sadly, he has capped uploads. The meg-per-minute he can upload pretty much limits me to a gig and a half a day.

His 2.1GB version is going to have to wait for Fedex.

I've got some fairly beefy hosting at my disposal, so I'll take the 500M version, crop off the 40% or so of the screen used by the UI we both like, fix the gamma, and then see if I can give a video that better shows what happens in under a hundred megs.

You guys just LOOOOVE Cracker Barrel Cheese baskets. I know it! Already done with the last ones i gave you and ready for more i see.

<aside> "Whew. Glad i got these! I'm gonna make a killing with VA around". /flashes Cracker Barrel stock certificates. <end aside>


/backs up his cart and starts passing out Cracker Barrel Cheese baskets to accompany the whine.

i still find it funny, that a guild who has full EP access with 10x better junk.would still be fighting over this zone.just seems rather petty,at that stage of the game.
most guilds, the moment they get full EP access, they drop VT like a bad habit.or even skip it all together.
but what ever floats your boat.with GoD AAs,ldon augs and what not,already makes EPs a bit easier.
im sure by the time your done in VT the next expansion will be out with even more AAs and increased levels to 70,general Rape em might even con blue by then. ;)

This is just 100% complete curiosity on my part, but how many times has FD beaten RZ since their initial success?

Get's kindof quiet in here when someone puts their money where their mouth is huh?

I am going to post what really happened and what the video does not show after i get to work!

Ok, went to view the movies. The first one is hard to pick out at best, however I do see the words TRAIN! come up in /gu twice. Ummmmm, that could just be a bad pull LOL. Welcome to VT!!!

The second movie didn't work, so I don't see anybody putting money, words, chocolate pudding or anything where their mouth is.

As the immortal Shewdogg once said:

Stick a finger in your ass, make a moustache and shut the fuck up!

/em goes off muttering about whiners

It does take a while to reallly get a good look at that video, as well as distribute it around takes time as well. One of the reasons for the delay in posting it I imagine.

For the most part, I think I will be reserving judgement on this whole thing until Palimax can clear up the video a bit more. He's next to godlike with stuff like that.

I think we have only killed RZ three times all total, so twice since the initial kill. It may have only been once more though.

Sage Garrath Moore
Arcanist
Final Destiny

Ok, went to view the movies. The first one is hard to pick out at best, however I do see the words TRAIN! come up in /gu twice. Ummmmm, that could just be a bad pull LOL. Welcome to VT!!!

A bad pull... on a perma rooted mob.... after it's nearly 60% dead... uh huh.

Can I have some of what you're smoking?

(BTW, the second video is a slightly longer and higher quality version of the first one. It plays without issue on WinXP and WMP9, but it takes a little coaxing to get it to play on earlier versions of WMP.)

Vhex, I believe FD has killed RZ once since their initial victory... unless they snuck a kill in when no one was watching the zone.

And I know all this information how? Where in the video does it say this?

I'm sorry, but your testimony is as shoddy as the video. My quote from Shewdogg stands :hat

Then show us a *insertfdmembernamehere* has been killed by Eom Va Liako . . .that;s about the easiest proof of trains you can get, don't ya think? . . .rather than editing a *video* and all that bs.

1) If the person was too far away from someone with logging on (of course...logging is easier to fake than video) you wouldn't get a message about Thebraden dying.

2) I believe Thebraden is an SK...as long as he gets a successful FD, there would be no death message (assuming he didn't fail)

The person running behind the blob was using a 2hb or a lance by the looks of it. Thebraden uses niether of those types of weapons i think. It may have even been one of those books on a stick weapons. Either way I dont see where the video shows proof of anything other than bad luck and VA wiping. Shit happens /shrug

Aoneiel Madfaulker

Why don't you all just set a schedule for VT like most guilds did when more than one guild had access to it, like Time is now?

And I know all this information how? Where in the video does it say this?

I'm sorry, but your testimony is as shoddy as the video. My quote from Shewdogg stands

Again, can I have some of what you're smoking? It must be some real good stuff.

Go ahead, try to deny that:
1) That isn't Blob 1 we're fighting (Even at 50% "zoom", you can see that the mob's name is Kaas Thox Xi Ans Dyek)
2) That Blob 1 isn't permarooted
3) That Blob 1 isn't down to around 44% in that clip (again, Aurom's choice of custom interfaces makes it easy to tell the mob's health, even in the low-bitrate encoding)
4) That the train of 4-5 Akhevans isn't obvious, even in the low-bitrate encoding.

Or are you going to try to explain to everyone how you "pull" a permarooted mob?

As an aside, what operating system and what version of WMP are you trying to view the second video on? At work, on W2K and WMP6, I had to set it to full screen before any of the video would show up (but then again, my work PC is a piece of shit)

The person running behind the blob was using a 2hb or a lance by the looks of it. Thebraden uses niether of those types of weapons i think. It may have even been one of those books on a stick weapons. Either way I dont see where the video shows proof of anything other than bad luck and VA wiping. Shit happens /shrug

That's definitely not a book-on-a-stick weapon. If you look at the picture that Bosillo linked on page two (which is an image capture from one of the videos), it looks like that weapon is one of the PoP swords, not a 2HB or a lance. I couldn't tell you which one of the PoP swords it is, but it's not a lance... I've never seen any lance that is colored darker towards the handle (hilt, place-that-you-hold-it, whatever.)

Not to mention the fact that the "The" is pretty clear in that picture, and FD was the only guild in the zone that had someone who's first name started with "The".

(Bah, no edit...)

It's actually page three (under normal ezboard viewing settings) that has the image (http://www.imaginenet.us/Vannmovie/Thebraden.jpg) that Bosillo included.

Why don't you all just set a schedule for VT like most guilds did when more than one guild had access to it, like Time is now?

I suggested that "pages" ago but seems it's not an option. I can remember zoning into VT our first time and Gandien (CB)encouraging us to start learning the zone and then working out a deal that we split spawns. Worked out very well and both guilds stuck to the deal. That was easy to do but that isn't the case anymore. I think VT is on more than 3 guilds raid list and its feast or famine. Competition is hot.

Plane of Time is shared between 3 guilds at the moment with zero problems amongst the guilds who are doing it. Headache free and for good reason. Now can that be said if it's being shared by 4,5,6+ guilds? Will be interesting.

this is almost (but not quite) as good as the old Darkwind, EW, CB, IvM ntov days...gawd I miss those leapfrogging, pissing-in-the-other-guy's cheerios days.

Video editing. Sounds fun! Send it to me too! I will make it say "Palimax", or The Special Fix, or maybe even Dashmoo! That shouldn't be too hard to do at all...

Some things that are apparently being overlooked here:

[Mon Mar 22 17:07:34 2004] VA engages Blob
[Mon Mar 22 17:08:15 2004] /who all "vallis aspectus" returns "There are 21 players in Vex Thal."
[Mon Mar 22 17:12:21 2004] /who all "vallis aspectus" returns "There are 23 players in Vex Thal."
[Mon Mar 22 17:19:54 2004] VA tank Nikon goes LD.
[Mon Mar 22 17:19:34 2004] Blob flurries Cathode
[Mon Mar 22 17:19:42 2004] Blob flurries Bringer
[Mon Mar 22 17:19:48 2004] Blob flurries Airomas
etc etc etc
[Mon Mar 22 17:20:26 2004] First VA person is killed by adds


What's my point? The train happened AFTER your MT went LD. You guys were already wiping before the train. The train just sped things up. You're just being your usual drama queen selves and looking for blame elsewhere. Check your own logs before you start a bitchfest.

i pissed in caeans cereal, but he didn't notice and ate it anyways

he got pretty pissed when i told him about it later

From the mouth of an FD officer:
as was explained to your leadership a share would not really work out as VA's raid time is about a 4 hour later start over us and would most likely result in one of the other elemental guilds that realized it was not in their best interest to have skipped VT grabbing the next spawn

That's why there's no VT rotation. There are many more guilds now that have access to VT than when SoT first got there, so a schedule would be much more difficult (if not impossible) to work out.

Time is "semi-instanced", which helps the sharing of it. I'm sure if it weren't "semi-instanced" that you guys wouldn't find it quite as easy to share.

What's my point? The train happened AFTER your MT went LD. You guys were already wiping before the train. The train just sped things up. You're just being your usual drama queen selves and looking for blame elsewhere. Check your own logs before you start a bitchfest.

You don't have a point. Nikon went LD. Cathode got aggro at that point and go flurried, then Bringer got solid aggro and died, then aggro briefly shifted to Ariomas before moving back to Cathode. Then the train showed up, then the Blob fluxed again.

So, unless you count one person going LD and one other person dying "wiping", then you don't have a point.

If that train hadn't showed up, we would likely have finished the battle, even with a paladin tanking. Our clerics were still good on mana at that point, and we had several means of increase mana regen at our disposal.

and he didn't notice the extra coco puffs from me.

though i'm brads friend, i will say from that picture that i can make out his name of Sir Thebraden Died.

That's not to say he trained, I wasn't there, but I will say that lil horrible quality image is almost definately him.

Life sucks, buy a helmet.

Why don't you all just set a schedule for VT like most guilds did when more than one guild had access to it, like Time is now?

For what it's worth, back when we were dominating VT, we tried to work out a sharing arrangement with FD six or so times. Fairly hard to construe that as anything but exceedingly generous considering we proved without much doubt that we could beat them at will. Some people just like doing things the hard, stupid way, and I doubt FD would give VA much consideration.

(cue Chenoa rabid liar post!)

I like the the Warren commission who-trained-who discussion though, that's hilarious.

yajj

As for budayens other comments about us CoHing to you guys already engeged on mobs . .EMP the 3 times i;ve been in the raid we coh'd up and you guys were either in rug room sitting on your asses, or engaging insignia nameds for keys . . we never dropped in while you were actually engaged with Blood or emp.

lies bro fd has come into emp chamber on 2 occations while we were engaged one time while we were on emp and you ae tled with emp at 50 %.

another time we were enged with blood only for the raid to get a little rough your people started in on blood and off tank mobs then just up and ae tled out. thanks for wipeing us there


also we can do any mob fd has with the same amout of people.

It's my understanding that we've tried to work out a rotation deal with VT, but FD doesn't want to play. They have no need to work out a deal...their large EST force can usually make it out somewhere before VA even starts logging in for the day. Knowing this, they have chosen not to play well with others.

I get tired of listening to the high moral road that FD says they are taking...then watching their actions in game. I don't give a shit what FD says...the video was not doctored...we did not train ourselves...and it very obviously shows Thebraden disappear running at the door...then a bunch of Akhevans run into the room and jump us.

I'd be willing to give FD the benefit of a doubt as to the train being accidental as it looks like Thebraden might have locked himself in a forward movement because you can clearly see him say "32333123121" (paraphrased) as though he had hit enter to talk. But this is why don't crowd other guilds while they are killing a mob...sit your ass at the zone and start coh'ing when the other guild wipes. We've shown you that respect with RZtW, but you refuse to give any respect to any other guilds in this regard.

another time we were enged with blood only for the raid to get a little rough your people started in on blood and off tank mobs then just up and ae tled out. thanks for wipeing us there

Actually, I remember this. Your numbers dropped in half. Of which you had low numbers at the time already. You were wiping. If I remember right, we TLed and decided to run back because one of your goobers was breaking mezzes after we took over.

Btw, since I can't clearly see much going on with all of the damn spell effects in the way in those videos, I would speculate that the gflux threw someone (FD or VA) too close to the door. Thus, insta-train. If someone wanted to train you on purpose in VT, they would bring alot more than 4 or 5, simply because its so easy.

i still find it funny, that a guild who has full EP access with 10x better junk.would still be fighting over this zone.just seems rather petty,at that stage of the game.

10x better? What are you smoking?

Mana/HP/AC is better on the EP stuff resists about the same or a tad lower, but remember the drop rate sucks compared to VT.

I would speculate that the gflux threw someone (FD or VA) too close to the door. Thus, insta-train
Did you actually WATCH the video?

It's very obvious, and I thought this was a dead portion of the topic, that the Gflux happened JUST AFTER the train. It has a long recycle time before it fires, so obviously it was quite a long time before the train happened that the last Gflux went off. It couldnt have been a Gflux that caused the train.

Also, that was me shouting "TRAIN" to the guild. I was alerting my raid that a large amount of mobs were heading towards our raid unexpectedly. Not that a pull had gone bad (why the hell would we pull at that time?)

Finally, when an MT dies or LD's, usually several people die before a new MT gets agro established and healers get set up on him. That's nothing new and its pretty funny to try to claim that we were going to wipe just because a couple people died after the MT went LD. Unless you're absolutely perfect at establishing the next tank as the second person on the hate list and the healers shift perfectly to the second tank immediately...

We were solid on blob 1. Clerics were good on mana, and we had necros if they got low. The fight was going to last a while due to the lower numbers. We knew that and were ready for it.

No offense, but VT is such a pain in the ass, who the fuck wants to continue clearing there after you get ele access?

I'm all up to date regarding my gear, so no worries about that. I'm sorry, but that video is just....well....crap! All I saw was said blob, you guys fighting and then you guys losing......sounds like old times in Ssra temple if you ask me /shrug.

Please, this whole "I roXX0r5 J00 No0b!!!! I got5 teh L337 V1d30!!!" thing not only proves nothing, it's just lame. I'm sorry, but I've seen your guilds videos in the past(good work I might add, but even then they could be blurry at times) and this one doesn't hold a candle.

Maybe you should get Jessnut to tape the next FD trains VA gathering......oh wait a sec! He's with FD (at least the toon is)! Silly me!

If the movie don't fit, you must aquit! Enjoy your moustache!!! :rollin

Taleren - I've looked over those pics and the video, time and time again. I just can't make that out with even the remotest bit of certainty. From what I can see, it "could" say Sir Thebraden Died". But then again, it could say anything at all. I have saved all the images and video footage locally and enhanced each of them in every way I know how, but still can't get the text to show any sense of clarity whatsoever. I will admit that the color patterns "look" like Brad's, but even that is not clear enough to point a finger. I know there are at least 2 other members, in FD alone, that have similar color patterns. Who's to say if anyone from VA has the same pattern, or that this person in the pic even caused the train?

Blooddraw i really dont think VA can do any mob FD can with the same numbers. Thats talking out your ass cause your mouth knows better. Yes Final Destiny has some sicko VTfetish atm but when we can do VT we will wether your gathering forces or have the forces. Its called competition. No one trained you on purpose. Every story has 3 sides, what you saw,what I saw, and what happened that we couldnt see. Buck up,lick your wounds, and try again. Far as making a deal I dont see how thats possible because of raid time differences and how defensive VA gets just by us being in the same zone. You blame us for your wipes no matter how close or far we are from your raid force. My God get a set and fess up to your own mistakes.

Aoneiel Madfaulker

Shit,i wish we had the RZ flags that FD did. It's been proven time and time again you don't need VT to suceed in the Elementals. I just hate missing content(that means screw your faction and let's kill Yeli &Dain VA )

Did you actually WATCH the video?

I gave up after the tenth time. I've tried in many sizes, I can't make out any of the text. The damn particle effects are blocking everything. I can't even see the mobs that were claimed to be trained. Can anyone fix this video?

Shit,i wish we had the RZ flags that FD did. It's been proven time and time again you don't need VT to suceed in the Elementals.

What guilds have done this? As far as I know, IVM is the only one. So, proven time and time again by IVM?

moklianne wrote:
Btw, since I can't clearly see much going on with all of the damn spell effects in the way in those videos, I would speculate that the gflux threw someone (FD or VA) too close to the door. Thus, insta-train. If someone wanted to train you on purpose in VT, they would bring alot more than 4 or 5, simply because its so easy.

Insta-train? From a gflux? You must be smoking the same shit Binuven is.

The low-quality video is 20 seconds long. The train makes its appearance at approx 15 seconds. The Blob Gfluxes approx 5 second later, at the end.

Given that Fling (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=2167&source=Live) has a recast of 45 seconds, that means the train appeared approx 40 second after the previous G Flux. I find it highly unlikely that a "wild GFlux" was the cause of the train.

Binuvin opened his mouth and shat all over the thread:
I'm all up to date regarding my gear, so no worries about that. I'm sorry, but that video is just....well....crap! All I saw was said blob, you guys fighting and then you guys losing......sounds like old times in Ssra temple if you ask me /shrug.

Please, this whole "I roXX0r5 J00 No0b!!!! I got5 teh L337 V1d30!!!" thing not only proves nothing, it's just lame. I'm sorry, but I've seen your guilds videos in the past(good work I might add, but even then they could be blurry at times) and this one doesn't hold a candle.

Maybe you should get Jessnut to tape the next FD trains VA gathering......oh wait a sec! He's with FD (at least the toon is)! Silly me!

Obviously your "gear" isn't as up to date as you claim, especially if my 2 year old piece of shit Dell PC at work can play that second video. Or maybe you need to go see an optomistrist and have your vision checked.

Perhaps you missed the part where Aurom said "I'm not a video wiz, I don't know much about editing, I just very recently got into recording mobs we do, and FD happens to be around a lot." Aurom was the one that recorded the video.

Yeah, e-Jessnut tried to apply to us, and didn't make the cut, so naturally he would wind up in FD again.

*yawn* You're clearly just a trolling idiot.

GilbarShadowpaw blabbered:
Taleren - I've looked over those pics and the video, time and time again. I just can't make that out with even the remotest bit of certainty. From what I can see, it "could" say Sir Thebraden Died". But then again, it could say anything at all. I have saved all the images and video footage locally and enhanced each of them in every way I know how, but still can't get the text to show any sense of clarity whatsoever. I will admit that the color patterns "look" like Brad's, but even that is not clear enough to point a finger. I know there are at least 2 other members, in FD alone, that have similar color patterns. Who's to say if anyone from VA has the same pattern, or that this person in the pic even caused the train?

These are the people that we had there that day:
[Mon Mar 22 18:06:02 2004] Players on EverQuest:
[Mon Mar 22 18:06:02 2004] ---------------------------
[Mon Mar 22 18:06:02 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Morizard <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 18:06:02 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Weizblitz
[Mon Mar 22 18:06:02 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Dinx <Vallis Aspectus> LFG
[Mon Mar 22 18:06:02 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Invizzigoth <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 18:06:02 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Utar <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 18:06:02 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Bringer <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 18:06:02 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Arenia <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 18:06:02 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Kilopatra <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 18:06:02 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Aurom
[Mon Mar 22 18:06:02 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Murro <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 18:06:02 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Shouts <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 18:06:02 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Bradious <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 18:06:02 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Cathode
[Mon Mar 22 18:06:02 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Azaral <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 18:06:02 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Nikon <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 18:06:02 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Jensae <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 18:06:02 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Reason
[Mon Mar 22 18:06:02 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Frenzeed <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 18:06:02 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Airomas
[Mon Mar 22 18:06:02 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Teaerwen
[Mon Mar 22 18:06:02 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Ryusin <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 18:06:02 2004] There are 21 players in Vex Thal.

Tenks and Destain were CoTH'd up later.

Therefore, the only VA people who were there who's names began with "T" were Teaerwen and Tenks.

The person who we see running to the east is clearly a plate wearing dark elf who's name begins with "Th"

Teaerwen is an Erudite mage.
Tenks is a High Elf wizard.

So nope, that person wasn't VA.


Aoneiel sputtered:
Blooddraw i really dont think VA can do any mob FD can with the same numbers. Thats talking out your ass cause your mouth knows better. Yes Final Destiny has some sicko VTfetish atm but when we can do VT we will wether your gathering forces or have the forces. Its called competition. No one trained you on purpose. Every story has 3 sides, what you saw,what I saw, and what happened that we couldnt see. Buck up,lick your wounds, and try again. Far as making a deal I dont see how thats possible because of raid time differences and how defensive VA gets just by us being in the same zone. You blame us for your wipes no matter how close or far we are from your raid force. My God get a set and fess up to your own mistakes.

Aoneiel, you're the one talking out of your ass. We killed Blob 1 the week before with 25 people. We would have killed him this week with 22/23 people. We've killed the Emperor with low numbers that closely match the lowest you've done him with.

We're not going to get into a pissing match about how many people are used to kill a mob, and we're not going to turn people away just so we can say "OMG! We K1LL3D TEH MOBZ WITH TEH LOW NUMB3RZ!"

So FD will gladly trample over other guilds to get what they want. Nice to have that out in the clear.

BTW, if FD was as clean as you guys try to make yourself out to be on this board, no guilds would go on the defensive when FD starts poking around the zone.

Perhaps you guys should talk to RIP on how to deal with other guilds. We were gathering for a run at RZ and they started to show up, too. Their raid leader sent one of us a tell and asked us what we were up to. We talked it over and they sat back at the graveyard (or even at the zoneout) while we made our attempt. They said that they would have zoned out if we requested it. (We didn't, because their presence in the zone wouldn't have impacted the outcome that night anyway)

The recent encounters between RIP and VA in the same zone have been amicable. Why can't we say the same about our encounters with FD?

veltore2 said :

It's been proven time and time again you don't need VT to suceed in the Elementals.

if farming the elementals for 9 months to get to time is "proof" of not needing vt to progress, i guess you're correct.

but just for the sake of conversation, who has proved it on our server ? I can't speak for other servers, but those who have skipped VT and progressed to the elementals that I am aware of are: Invictus Maneo, Turul Legion, Prism.
What exactly "proves time and time again" that vt isn't necessary to succeed?

Arch Lich Thana

Insta-train? From a gflux? You must be smoking the same shit Binuven is.

The low-quality video is 20 seconds long. The train makes its appearance at approx 15 seconds. The Blob Gfluxes approx 5 second later, at the end.

Thankyou for explaining. I couldn't really see shit in that video. My point is that if someone gets too close to the door (VA or FD or anyone) you will get those 4 or 5. Regardless if its from the gflux or some newb being stupid. And thankyou, I had no idea what Fling was, since i've only been on about 20 VT clears myself.

You forgot LoTJ, which was on the cusp of going Elemental when they disbanded, if they hadn't already killed RZ. They skipped VT, too.

You haven't disproved Veltore's assertion. All you've indicated is that VT makes it easier to succeed in the Elementals, not that it's essential for success.

With the exception of IVM, no guild on this server has made it to The Rathe Council without farming VT for a while.

CB got to the Elementals with only a hand full of clearings of VT. SOT had about 18 or so total clearings as well of VT..if thats considered a lot these days I don't know anymore. I highly doubt it and its also safe to say a lot of that VT gear retired early on in the elementals with folks who were burnt so not much was gained in the end.

ATEN loot is really the only things you wont be replacing any time soon. I still use 3 items from VT and have had access to Elementals quite a while but its Aten loot. However with as many guilds that are in the Elementals these days and with lack of targets available, if you were smart and hit the right events and being full geared with VT ...I dont see a reason why you couldn't whack Elemental gods and skip farming the planes all together.


Time will tell anyways do VT as long as you like it. Thats all that matters.


Ibudin

I don't believe guilds that have disbanded are germane to the conversation. I would disqualify them because disbanding seems to be the antithesis of success. Using the 2 cited guilds, CB and LOTJ, they certainly did NOT disband because they were successful in the elemental planes.

Arch Lich Thana

For those of you who can't see it -- glue your eyes to the upper right corner. At some point the video zooms out a bit so that corner is visibile. Mobs run in, a couple seconds later the gflux happens. Once you see it the first time you can start looking for more detail.

Next time we'll know to /report. And turn spell effects off while taping.

Thankyou for explaining. I couldn't really see shit in that video. My point is that if someone gets too close to the door (VA or FD or anyone) you will get those 4 or 5. Regardless if its from the gflux or some newb being stupid. And thankyou, I had no idea what Fling was, since i've only been on about 20 VT clears myself.

Let me explain it again:
1) Kaas Thox Xi Ans Dyek G Fluxes approx. every 45 seconds
2) The first video is 20 second long.
3) The train in the first video appears after approx. 15 seconds.
4) KTXAD Fluxes approx 5 seconds after the train appears, at the end of the video.
5) With the exception of Thebraden (or "The mystery man" if you're one of those that's going to continue to deny it), no one else went near the east side of the room for the 20 second duration of the video.

So, if the train was caused by a wild G Flux, then it would have had to have been from the G Flux that happened before the train showed up. Since the train showed up 5 seconds before a G Flux, that means that the previous G Flux happened 40 seconds (give or take) before the train showed up.

So you expect us to believe that it took nearly 40 seconds for the train to materialize? When no one except a FD officer had been seen anywhere to the east side of the blob? When no VA had died up until the point Nikon went LD?

With the exception of IVM, no guild on this server has made it to The Rathe Council without farming VT for a while.

Changing the definition of "Succeed in the elementals" as you go to suit your point, eh? I don't believe Veltore ever elaborated what he meant by "succeed in the elmentals". You're arbitrarily pinking The Rathe Council, but one could also pick any of the other three elemental gods as a sign of success.

And lookie there! Turul Legion killed Fennin Ro before they cleared VT!

Sounds to me like they're "succeeding in the elementals"...

You know, that person training VA looks an awful lot like.........Buadyen!!!!!

See! Don't you see it!?!?! Come on, it's RIGHT there! It's a conspiracy I tell ya!! Buadyen is a spy for FD really, he works for spankings from the gnome!!!

For those that think the above paragraphs are bullshit, all I have to say is prove it!!! Those vids are such poor quality.

I'm not going to argue with any of you anymore, because you really just don't see my point. And thankyou for flaming me for saying my point of view, when I made no slam on you. Grats to TL for Fennin and RiP for Cornaiv(while I'm at it) btw.

We once wiped while cothing from one floor to another in VT (can't remember which spawns). After about the 20th person was cothed, someone yelled train. Low and behold 30-40 mobs were running straight to the coth spot. We never truly figured out what happened. Assumed it was a transfer of aggro from a pet let behind, since the coth spot was almost right above us on the next floor. My point is what Aon said, there are 3 sides to every story: what I saw happen, what you saw happen and what really happened. If it turned out that TB did, it wasn't intentional. But, there's also that possibility that something happened the video didn't show.

no one except a FD officer had been seen anywhere to the east side of the blob?

Ok I am confused here... first you are blaming Thebraden for training and now you are blaming an officer for training?

Thebraden isn't an officer? Some of us were under the impression that he was. If he isn't, then that's clearly a mistake and should read "no one except a FD member".

He is not an officer.

No guild has been able to get to the elementals on the TZ server w/o vt gear.

Wanted to add that content does get easier over time, so you can't really use anything done in the past as something to compare with.

For example the tanks now have a 5%? mitigation bonus and an additional 500 hps, and some nice aggro options (incite?)..

People just doing regular god trials are getting elemental quality gear so you need to take all that into consideration.. just ldon alone is amazing gear.. and time alone is a huge factor because at some point people stopped getting useful aa and that let the others catch up..

I am sure vt was a lot tougher at 60 =b

The 500 meg version of Aurom's video showed up on my desktop sometime before I left to work this morning. When I get home, I'll do my best to provide a clearer version. Expect a newer version by tonight.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>[Mon Mar 22 17:07:34 2004] VA engages Blob
Mon Mar 22 17:08:15 2004] /who all "vallis aspectus" returns "There are 21 players in Vex Thal."
[Mon Mar 22 17:12:21 2004] /who all "vallis aspectus" returns "There are 23 players in Vex Thal."
[Mon Mar 22 17:19:54 2004] VA tank Nikon goes LD.
[Mon Mar 22 17:19:34 2004] Blob flurries Cathode
[Mon Mar 22 17:19:42 2004] Blob flurries Bringer
[Mon Mar 22 17:19:48 2004] Blob flurries Airomas
etc etc etc
[Mon Mar 22 17:20:26 2004] First VA person is killed by adds<hr></blockquote>

Anybody else notice the problems with those times but me? Also going from 21-23 people doesn't seem like wiping out to me, we were still increasing our numbers during the fight.

From watching the video you can see Thebraden run across the room towards the east door (it could very well have been an accident but if it was he could have admitted to it and at least appologized for accidently training us). Seconds later we get all those adds from the east door. There was no Fling immediately before hand so that argument is moot. From those videos it can pretty well be argued that Thebraden was the one responsible for the train, intentional or not. There is no way to be 100% certain but the evidence at hand is pretty convincing.

I talked to thebraden today, he's tried to register here so he could post, but after 22 hours he still hasn't gotten a reply back. He's going to try and register again. Keep in mind he's a friend of mine, and with that I know he wouldn't lie to me.

What he told me was that he spilled water into his keyboard, he then crashed, and wasn't able to get his other keyboard he plugged in instantly recognized by his pc. He DID NOT see himself train you guys, and definately didn't intentionally train you guys. If it was indeed him, it wasn't intentional. He wasn't able to get back on for a bit.

Assuming what he told me is true, and i have no reason to doubt the words of a friend, this was all unintentional and everyone is getting worked up over a supposed plot to screw over VA that just wasn't intended.

I know, i'm not in either guild, i am not party to the argument, nor do I want to be party to any argument. I just hate seeing a friend, and someone I know to be a good guy, run through the mud for something completely unintentional. I'm not here to flame anyone, that's not my style. I've seen both guilds do dishonest things to each other in the past when I was a member of FD, yes both sides, neither guild are saints. I dont' think this was one of those times when one guild tried to hurt another.

This would make sense since someone in VA said he saw him say "23223432". Again, I highly doubt it would not be an intentional train.

Borborygmous wrote:

Thebraden might have locked himself in a forward movement because you can clearly see him say "32333123121" (paraphrased) as though he had hit enter to talk.

Again, it was probably the situation. I am sorry that this caused you guys to wipe. Again, if Thebraden was the person that caused it, it was nothing more than a mere mistake and not intentional in anyway.

I'm sorry but I cannot buy into the water in the keyboard situation..... those who have been in the blob room and know where each guild was.... we'll start with that..... FD CoH's in the cubby across the the room from the door, correct? VA CoH's in the cubby south of the blob correct? if someone in FD had spilt water into their keyboard to cause the keyboard to make him/her run amuck just someone PLEASE tell me what the possibilities are of this

Running across straight to the door east of teh cubby.... clicking the door open... aggroing what looks like 3+ mobs at least and then running back after clicking the door back open? plus spamming random 3's and 2's in /say...... I think that rivals up with the magic bullet theory that hit JFK and the Gov. of Texas like 3 times....

*puts his boots on and pulls his pant legs up to be able to wade in the BS*

Sorry but I can't buy that.... I've seen water in a keyboard do one of TWO things.....

a. quit working entirely
b. or pressing all buttons randomly by shorting across themselves... however there is no way that if it didthat that it would cause that to happen.

You might want to talk to Thebraden a little more... and the FD officer in charge at that raid since it's now gone from "We wiped and crying and CLAIM that we were trained by FD and it never happened" to "one of our members got water on his keyboard and doesn't know if he trained us"

-Arashikage Katakana
Ranger of Karana

Well if FD had of displayed common courtesy and waited to CoTH, until after we were done then this so called "Accident" would never have occured.

Easy there, Arash...

Assuming that the "water on the keyboard" story is true, and there really isn't any reason why we shouldn't take Ogan and Taleren at their word about it since we more less came up with the same possiblity ourselves...

Um... where was I?

Oh yeah, assuming the keyboard thing is true, and based on what I've seen in VT before, I think the following scenario is a definite possibility:
1) Thebraden's computer fucks up and he takes off across the room to the east.
2) He hits the east door and proximity aggros the mobs on the other side.
3) They chain aggro several more mobs.
4) The mobs beat him senseless. (There is slight ancedotal evidence that he was no longer in the zone after the train)
5) Having beaten Thebraden into the ground, the mobs are now close enough to the Blob and VA to aggro on us.

Ultimately, there's no way that we can prove one way or the other what the meaning behind the "2223322232" is. It could have happened as Lyrik and Taleren indicated, or it could have been some fiendish outlandish plot concocted to make us think he was a bard... (hint: "fiendish outlandish plot" indicates that I do not consider that a serious possiblity, and neither should anyone else)

Accidental or not, it still leaves Dashmoo and the other FD officers dealing with the strong possibility that one of their members caused another guild to wipe.

All I can say is.... sucks to be them.

(Although we can't dictate how Dashmoo and her crew handle this, that this may have been the result of an accident doesn't get him off hook.... )

I will accept for the sake of this post only that Thebraden did have an accident that caused him to run across the room and that he didn't intentionally train us. Having done the same thing myself all I can say is that I hope the keyboard survived.

However, I do not believe that no one else from FD saw what happened. In addition, I find it, to be polite, disturbing that no FD member will admit they saw this happen. The video shows a number of FD people in places they could and should have seen Thebraden's run and it's resulting train. If you look at the left edge of the video (use pause-start and you can stop frame it) just after Thebraden runs you will see at least two FD at the edge of "their" cubby with an angle to see the door. Then look again, just before the train, at the figure moving out from from behind Blob and backing away toward the FD cubby (hmmm, in a Robe with a staff - surely not a monk - right Dart?). Oh, and that figure isn't seen moving to that location in the time of the clip so I presume he/she had been there a while.

Given that I do not accept that no one from FD knew they had trained us (intentionally or not) I think it is a sad commentary that the raid leaders of FD at that raid then took advantage of their member's accident and killed blob 1 and move on into VT.

I guess my idea of honor and fairness is too much at odds with the FD posters and supporters here and differs too much from those who saw what happened and refuse to admit it. Surely Thebraden could (and in my opinion should) have posted on the FD boards what happened. He had to know what happened. Even with the keyboard out of commission the monitor should have continued working and he would have seen what he did and the result. If he ran out of control to the east and didn't return I can only assume that he died and needed a rez. That also should have showed him what he had caused to happen. Did he post what happened on the FD boards? Giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming he did, I do not understand how any FD member can read this thread and continue to deny the truth?

Okay I can dig it..... I'm not trying to totally disrespect everyone... Ogan especially he's always been a very mature person and I know wouldn't have any tolerance for something like that.... BUT I have a couple questions then....

Oh yeah, assuming the keyboard thing is true, and based on what I've seen in VT before, I think the following scenario is a definite possibility:
1) Thebraden's computer fucks up and he takes off across the room to the east.
2) He hits the east door and proximity aggros the mobs on the other side.
3) They chain aggro several more mobs.
4) The mobs beat him senseless. (There is slight ancedotal evidence that he was no longer in the zone after the train)
5) Having beaten Thebraden into the ground, the mobs are now close enough to the Blob and VA to aggro on us.

I would assume that Thebraden's corpse was rezzed so FD could continue on and kill Blob1 and the rest of VT right?

Where was his corpse?

-Arashikage Katakana
Ranger of Karana

In the event that his Keyboard locked, please offer up a solution to a problem I have. If you lock up, even go LD. Running enough to get aggro on mobs they would aggro you and kill you. aka a corpse. Even if he didn't open the door, FD would have had to have gotten his corpse. Rogue dragged or otherwise and would have known that Intentionally or otherwise that they had indeed caused the train.

Another theory is the 3223344322 etc are macro keys, and in the event of a keyboard shorting you'd have to hit enter again for them to post in say. I've had lots of <rrr/tell shouts quit asking me for cyber! > say spam. embarassing as it may be, it happens. But the keyboard has to work in order for that to happen.

Again even if he got locked and did infact "accidentally train" the people who dragged/rezzed him (or coth'd him back) would have known.

I also appriciate the criticism on the video qualty after having stated that I'm not a video wiz. It's also only a 4 meg version so it would be downloadable. Take it for what you will.

Perhaps I missed it somewhere but I don't recall seeing anything about this "spilled Water" theroy until it was mentioned by Lyrik. Which makes me think people were following this thread and said hey yeah I can use that as an excuse.

sorry I just don't buy it.

Another possibility is that he was drinking bottled water, and somehow knocked the bottle across the keyboard.

In the ensuing "Oh shit!" moment, the wrong keys were pressed and auto run was triggered.

Or, he had the input cursor in another chat window and was trying to do some sort of macro, but couldn't figure out why, then spilled the water somehow and in the ensuing "Oh shit!" moment, hit enter (triggering the /say) and auto run.

It's not really productive to try to figure out the exact events that happened at Thebraden's computer desk, there's any number of reasonable possiblities, since we're playing a not-100% stable game on a not-100% operating system.

It's also not difficult to see how his corpse could have slipped through the cracks. I doubt that either guild scoured the room afterwards to find out what happened. If he was really out of the game "for a bit" (and again, one of VA's members also noticed that he had disappeared from the zone at one point), it's very easy to see how he could come back later and had some sort of corpse summon and not have it connected to the Blob 1 events at all.

It's very likely they though that his death was from the ensuing train cleanup, too. Think about it: after the mobs wiped VA, they were sitting right on top of where FD was, so they HAD to have aggroed on FD. It's not unreasonable to assume that Thebraden died during the resulting cleanup.

Also.... he's a Shadowknight. He could have summoned his own corpse and been resed at the zonein.

well if thebraden had his keyboard locked up then answer me this. i was waiting coth right after the train had happen. thebraden was already in question to have been the one that trianed us. well low and behold thebraden comes into the zone with all his armor. about 10-15 mins after the train. so if keyboard locks up he should be dead and rezed by FD and they would have known the train was caused by him. or second theory. thebraden was given a TL to bind and told to run to door. when he angros he clicks accept. this is a obvious solution to why he wasnt in zone after the train since he had no corpse and was fully dressed after the fact comin into zone.

obviously,you have never cleared fire,water,earth A and B and air minis and named.adding up to around 45+ items every 3 day repops.
in fire theres 7 minis and 3 named,in water theres 3 minis and 1 named,in air theres 4 minis and 4+ named,in earth A theres 1 mini and 5 named,in earth B theres 4 minis.this is not including the Gods and the event mobs that drop stuff (aka, fennin ro event 8 named, dropping 0 to 8 items a clear and corinav event 3 named droping 0 to 3 EP bracers).
so thats around 19 minis and 13 named that drop 1 to 2 items each.minis are the EP armor droppers and the named drop assorted other items.
1 week in VT is around 40 items a full clear vs a possible 40+ items every 3 days in EPs=around 80 items a week.
Granted, you have to face a ton of competition these days as more and more guilds are getting in EPs.the longer you wait the more guilds therell be,the less chances of gettin to farm EP armor.
and its EP armor not VT junk you want for Rathe etc..

i would have to say, based on the math of how much loot drops in EPs vs VT.your crackpipe is filled with way more crack then mine is.

Oh my gosh what a NIGHTMARE to get registered. I found out my verizon account was inactive now. Thanks for sending me a bill (not).

ezboard apparently won't use a hotmail or yahoo email addy to register, either. So, on try #4, here I am.

And this entire thread has been a nightmare too. Lots of interesting theories here.

Ok, here's what happened to me. I was standing in our cubby waiting for a group or a raid invite - for a long time. You guys engaged, had blob down to about 45% I think. I reached for my cigarettes, and knocked my glass of water onto the keyboard. Of course, the keyboard stopped working. I got up, found another one, then came back to my desk to plug it in. When I got back to my desk, behind my monitor where my computer is, so I don't know what was happening at that point. I reached down to unplug the wet keyboard and plug in a new one, then hit caps lock to see if caps came on. It didn't, which told me I had no keyboard recognition. So I powercycled my computer to get logged back in. Then I went over to my OTHER computer, which was sitting next to the first one, running my shaman, and saw everyone wiping. I managed to get my shaman camped before he got killed.

Now to the pictures... I will admit, the color coding is similar to that of mine, and it appears to be a dark elf. I cannot make out the text, so I will not swear that it is not my toon running across the screen (though several who have looked at the pics are certain that it IS my toon).

And the kicker? One of our corpse draggers, when I got back in from LD, asked for consent. I consented. He said "I think I can get it". I asked him why, he said it was by the door...

One thing I omitted above was that the water spilled on the number pad section of my keyboard, and was a good couple of ounces.

So, my synopsis of the whole situation, now that I FINALLY have an account on this stupid board (swore up and down I would never ever post here because doing so is a complete waste of my time and everyone else's that chooses to do so) is one of these three scenarios:

Scenario A)
I spill water on keyboard and get up to get another. During that time, the numlock (autorun), enter key, and several of the numbers on they keypad get shorted out and triggered a number of times, causing my toon to run across the room and aggro the mobs outside the door (and subsequently die).

Scenario B)
I spill water on the keyboard, get it replaced, then powercycle the computer causing linkdeath. When the blob AE's, LD TB runs up and engages, catches a riposte or five, then starts running away from low HP, straight to the door.

Scenario C) You're all crazy - FD, VA, and everyone else.

If by chance, scenario A or B are true, then I want to extend very heart-felt apologies to all of VA and everyone else that's been involved in this event or read/posted on this thread.

If scenario C is the case, then <shrug> takes all kinds to make up the world.

I can tell you until I'm blue in the face that I didn't do this intentionally, if at all, but it's up to you guys to decide to let something so trivial ruin your day, or to just get over it and keep plugging. Think of how many AA you could have all had if you had exp'd, instead of spending your time on this board...

And Dawar, I'm still lookin for ya...

Oh, and with regards to being at the zone, fully dressed. I was already logged back in, FD killed blob, THEN I got rezzed and instantly asked for decess to zone so I could go get my kids then come back without having to run all the way from PoT (bind spot). I'm on central time, and I have to leave my house by 6pm to get my kids by 6:30. I think I left that day at 5:45 or so.

And I didn't post this on the FD board because I wasn't aware that there was any concerns that I might have caused this until I got tells from several people today stating they were certain that person in the video was me. I honestly believe(d) it could have been anybody.

Think of how many AA you could have all had if you had exp'd, instead of spending your time on this board...

/hug 4 computers

-Arashikage Katakana
Ranger of Karana

"time and time again" not to many peeps read the Safehouse i assume. A Ro isn't the only server.

Man......

The flames are dying miserable deaths.....

Where's Vhex when you need him?

I'm with Allamar on this one. Unless the core of your guild is still wearing NToV gear, clearing VT is a pointless endeavor. You'll live without Talismans of Vah Kerreth or whatever.

Can't even aug that POS! Ill take what I wear.

Anyone see the problem of this, if Thebraden was asked for consent more than 2 people in FD knew that the train was caused from this, or at least could have been a possibility, yet its still not FD that caused it... yeah thats it alright.

sorry, just tired of all the BS between us, there is no need for it.

http://www.kmstudio.com.ua/video/codecs.htm]CODECS (http://www.kmstudio.com.ua/video/index.htm?[url) HERE![/url] -- If you can't play these movies, get out of your cave and get updating!


3.66M MPEG-2, cropped to 510x121 (http://www.i-hack.com/content/downloads/High-Cropped-MPEG2.mpg)
4.11M MPEG-1, cropped to 510x121 (http://www.i-hack.com/content/downloads/High-Cropped-MPEG1.mpg)

26.1M IYUV "Compressed" (lossless, RLE) 510x121 (http://www.i-hack.com/content/downloads/High-Cropped-IYUV-Compressed.avi) Please, for the love of god, download this as a LAST RESORT. There's no excuse for it to be the year 2004, for you to have a computer, and for you not to be able to play MPEG1 and MPEG2 files.

5.74M Ready-to-Burn DVD ISO (http://www.i-hack.com/content/downloads/train.iso) also suitable for mounting with Daemon Tools (http://www.daemon-tools.cc/portal/download.php?mode=ViewCategory&catid=5) and playing with your computer's DVD player.

Ok, now that THAT'S out of the way, here's my observations: In the 20-second clip I provide (which you can clearly rectify with Aurom's Original Video (http://www.imaginenet.us/Vannmovie/FDtrain2.wmv)) it's pretty clear that Thebraden starts moving from left-of-screen to right-of-screen, leaves the room and never returns. A "robe wearing melee" can also be seen backing up (watch to the left of the yellow particle effects) right before the train hits. That person has the advantage of being able to see the door, so it's hard to assume anything other than they saw the train coming before other people did.

I cropped the area of the door (which is only visible when Aurom stands) because it's a waste of bandwidth, and because it's empty. Oddly empty.And the kicker? One of our corpse draggers, when I got back in from LD, asked for consent. I consented. He said "I think I can get it". I asked him why, he said it was by the door...

I'd wager that with a rotation, it would be nearly impossible for people to accidentally train anyone.

Yep, that looks like my toon in that video. With regards to the corpse puller, I'm not certain he's visited this thread, and this topic, or at least the thread for it, isn't exactly on the top of our discussion list in guildchat. He may not be aware that this thread even exists.

I don't see any <LD> message after the name, so it looks like scenario A) above is probably what happened.

Sorry =\

a Robe with a staff - surely not a monk - right Dart?).

Robe? Bish, I wear a Super Fungi! Now if shroud's were still obtainable. I actually was late to this raid and missed most of the action, 2 points had been awarded before I even step foot into the zone. Nice try. :)

Now that I think about it, none of our monks wear robes, but I can name 1 VA monk that wears one.

I believe that it is Yttry that is shown backing away.

It seemed to me in the video that the mob Gfluxed right before the train happened.

I realize TB feels it was him, but wow...I dont see how anyone could tell who that is. but that was clearly a gflux within seconds before that train hit.

That night I got a ton of tells from VA members telling me it was me and that they saw me do it.

Thebraden, I have to say that given your explanation my problem with all this isn't with you. With minor reservations (if FD killed the train mobs why was it a problem to drag your corpse from the door with all the mobs there dead?) I can acccept your explanation and your saying it wasn't intentional. More than that, regardless of any reservations, I accept your apology.

However, I can't accept the FD actions following the train in then killing Blob 1 and proceeding deeper into VT. Why? Because I don't accept that others in FD didn't see what had happened. Because I don't accept that the FD members present didn't discuss what had happened with the train before they killed the Blob.

As a caveat, I guess I could accept the possibility that it was discussed and that those who saw what really happened didn't speak up (i.e. the two who watched you run from the cubby and the melee (monk ?) who backed away just before the train hit). If that is the case I feel sorry for those people's misplaced values since they obviously place greed in a mere game above honor and respectability.

Thebraden has offered his apology. Where are the apologies from the rest of the FD members for their disproved flames here and for their causing a train and then KSing the mob (whether intentional or not that is what happened)? Do you all have the intestinal fortitude to apologize? I'm not holding my breathe, but it will be interesting to see who can and who can't admit they were wrong.

I realize TB feels it was him, but wow...I dont see how anyone could tell who that is.You're high or something, right? There's ZERO doubt who runs across the screen. Thebraden blurts out a string of numbers (which matches his water/number-pad story) and then goes zooming across the screen. Presented in context, there is no doubt who the figure is.It seemed to me in the video that the mob Gfluxed right before the train happened.Unfuckingbelievable. Just keep denying that maybe, just maybe, you guys managed to fuck us over.

I'm perfectly willing to take Thebraden's explanation at face value provided someone can explain how he makes it out the picture.

Here's Thebraden's Exit -- <1M - MPEG-2 (http://www.i-hack.com/content/downloads/theb-exit.mpg), and I wanna know where he ends up? His trajectory (he starts in front of the mob, passes between people [see Aurom's first picture], and ends up behind the mob) takes him not into the doorway unless he turns. Since he's not bumping up against a rogue door or something, I ask? Was he still in a CoH group and called back to camp? I can't find him still running in a later picture, so he's either dead (and we do know he died eventually) or somewhere running into a wall.

It's only curiousity at this point, mind you. Thebraden seems willing to apologize for an accident. It's mind-numbing, however, that Chenoa is still in full on deny mode.

For fuck's sake, isn't full motion video enough?

Chenoa. Give it up. The GF is not a reasonably arguable point. All anyone has to do is look at Aurom's tape (Max cut the GF from his). The gravity flux is so obvious it makes your argument hilarious for it's inanity. As anyone who has been GF'd knows, a GF sends you many feet into the air. Before the train the only thing happening was Aurom standing up to cast. The only GF happened AFTER the train. End of argument.

-----------------------

Nice try Dart. You also have no case. It wasn't Ytryy "backing away". While it is true that Ytryy does wear a robe and carries a Caen's, he wasn't at the raid.

[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] Players on EverQuest:
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] ---------------------------
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Nimx <Vallis Aspectus> LFG
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Kilopatra <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Hombre <Vallis Aspectus> LFG
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] AFK [ANONYMOUS] Bringer <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Shouts <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Cathode
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Arenia <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Nikon <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Larlaana <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Tranzure
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Nitrain <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Attaktix <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Azaral <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Weizblitz
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] [65 Coercer] Destain (Gnome) <Vallis Aspectus> LFG
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Aurom
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Invizzigoth <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Utar <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Choppin <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Jensae <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] [64 Assassin] Veltore (Dark Elf) <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] [65 Prophet] Nahual (Unknown) <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Bradious <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Reason
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Ryusin <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Dinx <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] [65 Arcanist] Tenks (High Elf) <Vallis Aspectus> LFG
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] [ANONYMOUS] Frenzeed <Vallis Aspectus>
[Mon Mar 22 17:10:05 2004] There are 28 players in Vex Thal.

The only monks present were myself and Ryusin. I am Iksar and don't wear a Robe and neither I nor Ryusin (our class leader who does wear a robe) carries a staff.

On your other point, I was not saying it was you, only that it wasn't unreasonable to think that it was one of your monks. I know you weren't there (I always have my have logs on and I looked before my first post). However, I would expect you to know if it was one of your monks since you should have been in your monk channel (I can't believe you wouldn't have one) and I would have expected you to have heard about what happened, at least at some point during the night.

Why would I expect you to know? Because I also knew before I posted that you were in VT that night. At least you were there at some time after your guild CoTH to the next mobs, because for some reason you were inviting VA members who were at zone in into your group. (I am MTN time)

[Mon Mar 22 17:45:11 2004] Tranzure tells the guild, 'Hmmm...Bosillo just invited me to join his group.'
[Mon Mar 22 17:45:15 2004] The chorus of Marr renews your spirit.
[Mon Mar 22 17:45:19 2004] Realgore tells the guild, 'why is Bosillo inviting me to a group?'

So a point blank question Dart. Did one of your monks, or anyone else in FD for that matter, in your monk chat, in /rs, in /gu or in any other way including on message boards, say while you could "receive the statement" that they saw Thebraden train the mobs?

haha, freenz on the bosillo inviting people to groups subject, Its a joke he does in say with the wording he has invited you into a group, and no matter what people allways seem to fall for it. I get a nice laugh anytime he does it and I see in guildchat someone goes 'hrm bosillo just invited me into a group' LOL

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Unfuckingbelievable<hr></blockquote>

I can just picture Palimax sittng at his computer reading Chenoa's statement and spitting out his pepsi and saying this out loud as he wipes off his screen with his sleeve, dusts off his hands, and goes to post.

wow




Orun

It's mind-numbing, however, that Chenoa is still in full on deny mode.

It's not denial you retard. It's a question/statement.

Quote my whole post dipshit. I said, I understand TheB said it was him. But *I* <--- (you see the *I* can't see who it is on the video)

I doubt he would say that if he thought it wasn't. I said the mob Gfluxed right before the train only because you guys had previously said it didn't. I understand the difficulty you have in basic common sense Palimax, it's not in your genes, so i don't hold it against you that the ability to have an understanding of what is written in the present or previously. The funniest part was your members swearing that it was me who pulled the train because they saw me do it. I guess it was at that point that I realized the total lack of regard for facts that is inherent with you.

As far as what happened with a continued clearing, VA petitioned, a GM was brought in, I am guessing that the logs were looked at by the GM and it was not ruled in VA's favor. I do know I asked in our /gu what happened and it was wholeheartedly believed at that time that it was a combination of Gflux and the VA MT going LD that caused it. Unfortunately the GM felt that way also.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I said the mob Gfluxed right before the train only because you guys had previously said it didn't.<hr></blockquote>

Huh? I guess the video showing the Fling right after the train of mobs gets to blob 1 doesn't matter in Chenoa's world. But denying or contradicting anything someone in VA says does.

[Mon Mar 22 17:45:11 2004] Tranzure tells the guild, 'Hmmm...Bosillo just invited me to join his group.'

I think you should read the invite message again! :P

We do have a monk channel and I was in it. The only other monks in the zone were possibly Tessil, Kulman, Rigin, and myself.(All iksars but me btw, and I'm nearly always in Fire Elemental Illusion)

Giesel I don't believe had logged on yet, and I think he is our only other active, non-handbag monk, but doesn't wear a robe.

None of our monks indicated to me any intent to train VA, or that they saw anyone do it.

TB is a straight up guy, if he already took responsibility for it, then where is the problem?

Here, let me quote your full statement:

It seemed to me in the video that the mob Gfluxed right before the train happened.

I realize TB feels it was him, but wow...I dont see how anyone could tell who that is. but that was clearly a gflux within seconds before that train hit.

(Emphasis mine)

On the very first video that Aurom uploaded, the low-res low-bitrate version, it's very difficult to make out the name. On the subsequent higher quality encodings, it's pretty easy to see that it was Thebraden.

Care to tell us how the combination of "It seemed to me in the video that the mob Gfluxed right before the train happened." and "but that was clearly a gflux within seconds before that train hit." is not a clear case of denial when the video clearly shows that the train arrived before the gflux?

I doubt he would say that if he thought it wasn't. I said the mob Gfluxed right before the train only because you guys had previously said it didn't. I understand the difficulty you have in basic common sense Palimax, it's not in your genes, so i don't hold it against you that the ability to have an understanding of what is written in the present or previously.The funniest part was your members swearing that it was me who pulled the train because they saw me do it. I guess it was at that point that I realized the total lack of regard for facts that is inherent with you.

(Emphasis again mine)

Looks to me like you're making some pathetic attempt to save face, although continuing to deny things while slinging insults at Palimax isn't the way to do it. Despite your claims to the contrary, there's no other conclusion to draw from your other post except that you're trying to deny what happened.

As for the tells? It's been well documented that eye-witness accounts of people directly involved in events can be inaccurate. Clearly we realized rather quickly that it wasn't you, since you seem to be the only person that's publicly stating you were suspected of the training.

As for the GM? They probably responded to the petition, checked for /reports, saw that there were none, and said "No /report, no direct GM observation, no proof".

The GM that night said that the only proof they would accept is direct observation or /reports. Since they had neither, and since there clearly isn't anything to be /reported, the only logical way for them to rule was to rule in favor of FD, based on SoE's standard of evidence. Unfortunately, the "logcial" ruling wasn't the correct ruling.

I hate to bump this thread even further but I do want to respond to one thing that was said earlier, I think by freezed.

However, I can't accept the FD actions following the train in then killing Blob 1 and proceeding deeper into VT. Why? Because I don't accept that others in FD didn't see what had happened. Because I don't accept that the FD members present didn't discuss what had happened with the train before they killed the Blob.

I was there, I was watching intently what was going on, as im sure most of the guild who was called was doing. We knew that if you wiped Blob was going to start summoning and we needed to be ready. That said, I personally did not see TB or anyone else run towards the door. I can attest there was NO conversation of it in /gu, or my group. From our vantage point it appeared as if Nikon went LD, blob turned, fluxed someone from your guild to the door, and the train entered.

That was the consensus in /gu , and that is why we proceeded to engage blob, and finish VT that night. We thought you wiped on your own merit, and we decided to move in. Not once did TB mention he had issues, or did anyone else say anything about us training you.

Im sure I speak for most everyone else when I apologize for what happened. Its pretty apparent what happened now, and I can see why in this situation you would be upset. I can also say that the general population of FD who was on that night was NOT aware of the circumstances with TB and his issues, and thats why we moved forward.

We thought you wiped, we moved in. GM's came, didnt explain shit to us, just told us we had the run of vt, so we figured we were in the right.

Sorry I guess I'm just assuming that the video maker going up and Dinx dissapearing from the screen before the train hit was a G-flux.

ok hard to imagine but i read all that crap , who trained who and so and so moved and agroed etc .

what confuses me is if when your coth team and raid officers etc , loged on or were draged rezed inside blob room and you saw another guild in room preping to engage whether they were at full str or not didn`t matter .

if and when you arrived in blob room and there was another guild there you were not raceing as the race was already over , you should have not continued coth peeps into the room but waited at the zone or another spot out of the room the other guild was in and wait for them to lose or win .

coth into a room and standing behind another guild waiting for them to lose so you can jump on the mob at low hp, or maybe lag them out is about as lame as feigning dead at a spawn point for a mob and waiting for guild a to kill trigger mob to spawn it then 5 sec after it spawns you pull mob to your guild to kill .

raceing and stuff for mobs is fun at times, but there`s a difference between racing for mobs and still being fair , as oppsed to being a dick about it . :lol

Tasarian
SOT

EXACTLY! VA was there first, we have started CoTH first, we had the force to kill it first. Why did FD continue to CoTH up to blob1 while VA was already there? Non of this would have happened if FD would have just waited. It's not like it would take alot of effort to sit at the zone in and wait for VA to succeed/fail on blob1, and then just CoTH up. Just fuck off next time, and let us do it without you watching over our shoulders.

Sorry I guess I'm just assuming that the video maker going up and Dinx dissapearing from the screen before the train hit was a G-flux.

Fair enough, it's easy to see how one could draw that conclusion, especially since Aurom's UI was cropped out of the high quality versions that were posted.

However, those clips are missing one thing that's essential to support the timing of the Gflux: the green sparklies.

If you look at this (http://www.imaginenet.us/Vannmovie/FDtrain2.wmv) slightly lower quality, but uncropped version, you can clearly see the green sparklies from the GFlux, which happen after Aurom's point of view shifts up and Dinx steps back. (In fact, that video shows then entire GFlux sequence.)

The FDtrain2 video also has Aurom's full UI in it. If you look at the lower right corner, you can see that his Sit/Stand button is visible. Normally, that isn't important, but in this case it is.

You can see Dinx nuking the blob, then she moves back (she probably saw the train coming and instinctively backed away... she was definitely in a position to see it coming before Aurom did). Then, you can see the mobs appear on the right. Aurom stands up and begins to cast a spell on the Blob. Then the Blob casts GFlux.

Also, Dinx moved out of Aurom's view before his point of view changed. A GFlux would have made them happen at the same time, but in the video, almost a full tick passes between the time Dinx moved out of view and Aurom's view shifted up.

(FDtrain.wmv (http://www.imaginenet.us/Vannmovie/FDtrain.wmv) also shows the same information, but it's encoded at a significantly lower bitrate)

Thebraden has offered his apology. Where are the apologies from the rest of the FD members for their disproved flames here and for their causing a train and then KSing the mob (whether intentional or not that is what happened)? Do you all have the intestinal fortitude to apologize? I'm not holding my breathe, but it will be interesting to see who can and who can't admit they were wrong.

I wasn't there and therefore have no idea what happened. But, I'll appologize anyway. Why? I have been in FD over a year now and know TB well enough that I'm positive this was nothing more than an accident

On your other point, I was not saying it was you, only that it wasn't unreasonable to think that it was one of your monks.

None of our monks wear robes. I was probably another class.

Dart, all I was asking for was an honest, straightforward reply. If you say you heard no monk say they knew what really happened or saw it happen I accept your statement. So, you play "invite to group" games, hunh? Love it. :lol

Cobryn, thank you for your apology. I find it refreshing.

Chenoa . . . never mind, it's not worth saying anything more about your idiotic GF claims.

Tasar . . . Bravo! Well said.

Moklianne, thank you also for your apology.

I'd wager that with a rotation, it would be nearly impossible for people to accidentally train anyone.

Bos trains us all the time. :rolleyes

Bos trains us all the time.


http://home.earthlink.net/~cybertechnics/singlepull.jpg

nuff said =)

Well I wasn't there that night but got pulled into this this morning. I don't normally read the NAG board for the same reason Thebraden said - It's mostly worthless drivel. Anyway, I have read the entire thread, watched what movies I could, etc.

Rest assured that FD and its members want the highest reputation possible. While we are agressive in our races with VA, it's only due to the fact that they have both intentionally and unintentionally blown spawns before by trying to go ahead with fewer than they need. Monday's coth to Blob1 was a race, plain and simple - VA coth'ing to a mob in no way even shows that they can kill it. You can have 40 people in the zone and still be missing key classes such as tanks or clerics to engage. Until the mob is engaged, I see no reason not to continue the race.

In this case, an accident happened, and while some can and will conjure all the conspiracy theories they want, we were unaware of the true cause of the train that night. As has been said before in this thread, it's my understanding that a GM came to the same conclusion that FD did - That VA wiped due to tank LD and an ill-timed grav flux.

Based on the information that we got the clear of VT that night due to one of our own member's actions, albeit unintentional, we want to try to make it up by giving VA tonight's spawn uncontested. At this point, TL is there, but no named have yet popped, making it likely that it will be a US timezone spawn.

Of course, this in no way implies a rotation. We still plan on VT when we can. But we do want to apologize and make up for Monday's mistake.

Chenoa has informed Hrsepla of this in game as well.

Good luck VA!

Good Luck VA!! Kick AHR's ass!!

OTM to VT!!!!

Damn wrong message boards!

just kidding =)

We appreciate the gesture of good faith and reciprocity; but why poison the olive branch?While we are agressive in our races with VA, it's only due to the fact that they have both intentionally and unintentionally blown spawns before by trying to go ahead with fewer than they need.It is unfair to say we have "intentionally blown spawns." VA has never blown a spawn through act of malice for another guild. We have never engaged a spawn with any intention other than attempting the encounter.

I apologize, I guess. I'm a pretty big fan of turning the other cheek. (Ask Kaely and Parthen about "shitting on my table.") Everyone gets more than a few chances with me.

God luck with your other targets tonight.

[quoteif and when you arrived in blob room and there was another guild there you were not raceing as the race was already over , you should have not continued coth peeps into the room but waited at the zone or another spot out of the room the other guild was in and wait for them to lose or win .[/quote]

AMEN

OMG if that were the case (as we respect their mobs when we realze we've lost.) None of this shit would happen. If I call OTM to VT and we get there with 10 people and FD has 25 and a coth established I walk away and say congrats FD. (I only hold a poor opinion of a few FD members, not the guild as a whole.)

I fought to hold myself back from posting on here but ... I ....Just .... couldnt ..... stop ...myself ....

I feel its has been best descrided by Elvis Presley, on the relationship between Vallis Aspectus and Final Destiny...

How VA feels about FD ...

You ain't nothin' but a hound dog
cryin' all the time.
You ain't nothin' but a hound dog
cryin' all the time.
Well, you ain't never caught a rabbit
and you ain't no friend of mine.

When they said you was high classed,
well, that was just a lie.
When they said you was high classed,
well, that was just a lie.
You ain't never caught a rabbit
and you ain't no friend of mine.


How FD feels about VA ...


Are you lonesome tonight,
do you miss me tonight?
Are you sorry we drifted apart?
Does your memory stay to a brighter sunny day
When I kissed you and called you sweetheart?

Do the chairs in your parlor seem empty and bare?
Do you gaze at your doorstep and picture me there?
Is your heart filled with pain, shall I come back again?
Tell me dear, are you lonesome tonight?

- Elvis talks:
I wonder if you're lonesome tonight
You know someone said that the world's a stage
And each must play a part.
Fate had me playing in love you as my sweet heart.

Act one was when we met, I loved you at first glance
You read your line so cleverly and never missed a cue
Then came act two, you seemed to change and you acted strange
And why I'll never know.
Honey, you lied when you said you loved me
And I had no cause to doubt you.
But I'd rather go on hearing your lies
Than go on living without you.

Now the stage is bare and I'm standing there
With emptiness all around
And if you won't come back to me
Then make them bring the curtain down.

Elvis sings again:
Is your heart filled with pain, shall I come back again?
Tell me dear, are you lonesome tonight?




Shykia Menchanter
65 Enchanter
Vallis Aspectus

I maybe old,but Shy
Elvis sucks =P

Ok, well it has come to my attention that there is a pic circulating where Mezzmoron says he "had" me train VA. And as incriminating as this may be, that is just not true. I was not in communication with Mezz at the time that this event occurred. Nor did I "accidentally on purpose" spill the water on my keyboard. It truly was an accident.

We had a discussion this evening about the pic, between myself, Shmoo, and Mezzmoron. Mezzmoron indicated that when he said he "had" me train, what he meant to say was that he "saw" me train. Up until tonight I had no idea he had done that, or that he had stated anything like that.

With regards to mezz tashing the mob, I'm not sure why he did it, but with the mob already being in the room, it made no difference I'm sure. Aggro would have already been established, and I think you all know that.

Mezzmoron has been removed (or chose to remove himself based on the discussion, I'm not sure) from Final Destiny for tashing the mob, however guild leadership accepts that Mezz and I were not in a conspiracy. I can also assure you all that Mezz feels remorse for what he did, and most certainly will never do anything like that again.

So... where do we go from here? Please feel free to send me a tell in-game if you are an involved party and wish to discuss this further. I will also be checking back here frequently to see where this goes.

If the mob would already be aggro, why would someone disguild or be disguilded over tashing it, or never do it again?

just don't make sense.

Heh, to answer the original question... Yes. Aten Ha Ra is dead at the hands of VA. Grats VA!

first of all id like to sat vt is clear hehe good job va.
not to bad for a buntch of casual players.

second i agree with alamar altho i like raiding vt and the gear is great upgrades id rather do ep but i think id like to take others to vt and show my guilds how fun it is and would like them to partake in a place not to many people get to see.

third it think it was nice of fd to say hey we messed up and back off of vt one spawn cycle. altho even tho i wasnt there i still have issues with the whole training bloob one thing.
i have some very good freinds in fd that would never do that or condone it, but there are a few bad apples in fd that i firmly belive that would do what they could to keep tentsions high between fd and va.

truley if we all just played the game instead of playing each other we all would have more fun.

be safe take a chill pill and play the game.

Dashmoo and I discussed these events this evening, and, lacking any further developments, VA leadership considers this event closed.

Wow, here is a position i never thought i'd find myself in - but of course I must add to what Thebraden said. Yes, indeed, it was an FD officer who had premeditated intent to cause a train/wipe. That is the reason why he was told to remove. I cannot have a guildee, nevermind an officer, promoting a behavior that is so against my ethic. (no wise cracks plzkkthx ~la)

I logged in after all of this in VT. I was chatting to 5 VA members who were civil and I had no idea of this hoopla till the next day, where I read it here.

So, on behalf of Final Destiny, the truth comes to light and I hope VA accept our apologies for the confusion and try to remember that for the rest of the time we DO get along :) As Palimax posted above me, we consider this matter closed.

Well done Palimax and Dashmoo. This calls for a celebration in POK tonight with endless Ale and Bat wing crunchys being served.

mmmm crunchy`s

And my Nagafen candle thingie!

Add to this it is my birthday how much better can it get ;)

....and they all lived happily ever after!

The End.

Drobe the Probe

Preview is your friend

;p

Grats on the VT clear, VA!

And I'm pleased to see this issue resolved. Only 55942 more to go! =)

woot im glad this came to a end ty dashmoo and palimax your both great leaders.

Man, I hope those collector quest gvers still have their free beer!!

In light of a clearly acceptable closure, I must say:

Thank you Frenzeed. First for the unitentional ass raping. I'm am clearly a newb. Secondly for the subsequent finger pointing and laughter as I walked off holding my ass in shame. :lol

I owe you one. >D

Dude, he takes you and YOU owe him?


massacists...



Orun



/hug tranz

Congrats VA on the VT clearing!

Glencannon
65 monk, retired

WTG VA!!!
You deserve that Victory.

Glencannon! Que pasanin'!

Hiya Dfrac, great to see you still in game. VA sounds alot like CB used to be as far as the casual aspect goes.
Hope for everyone it can stay that way and you still
accomplish what ya set out to do. Keep knocking them
MOBs down and I wish you all the best of luck.