http://vgplayers.station.sony.com/newsArchive.vm?id=368&section=News

Folks, ye might be pleasently surprised! ;)

This game is on my list of top 5 worst MMOs ever, right behind Dark and Light and Horizons. No way would I play it.

I was thinking the same thing about two months ago, then decided to give it a second shot. It was definately worth the gamble. Enough for me to cancel my Tabula Rasa preorder. Still playing it!

Do they offer a buddy key with this? Anyone know a way to give it a free shot?

Strangely enough I just ordered Tabula Rasa. Amazon.com has both editions half price right now.

I think that's the next thing coming. There are still updates on the way so it only keeps getting better and better. There are a LOT of people coming back to VG. Something like close to 20k in the last month and a half alone.

If they start offering, rest assured I'll post it here. That being said though, you can buy the game at EB Games now for $20

I might check that out. I logged back into Star Wars Galaxies the other day on some free time they offered old subscribers. I still think it's a great game, but the developers refuse to do what needs to be done to make it great, least of all addressing the dying server populations. I need to find a new game!

I have a friend who has Vanguard still, checked it out to see what improvements were done - and its still garbage. The performance demands are impossible for the best of computers and its so tedious.

For the MMORPGer without a lot of time World of Warcraft is still one of the best. Its great until the endgame where you spend day after day after week trying the same content over and over.

Everquest2 is my personal favorite, the polish isn't quite there but it offers a lot more features and a lot deeper gameplay experience. I've done 4 different Kunark raids so far (out of dozens) and they each were very different so its not nearly as monotonous as spending 6 nights in a row in Karazhan, then 6 nights in Gruul's Lair, etc.

Well and for someone like me who missed 2 expansions the content seems endless, I'm having a blast in EQ2 :D

I have a friend who has Vanguard still, checked it out to see what improvements were done - and its still garbage. The performance demands are impossible for the best of computers and its so tedious.

For the MMORPGer without a lot of time World of Warcraft is still one of the best. Its great until the endgame where you spend day after day after week trying the same content over and over.

Everquest2 is my personal favorite, the polish isn't quite there but it offers a lot more features and a lot deeper gameplay experience. I've done 4 different Kunark raids so far (out of dozens) and they each were very different so its not nearly as monotonous as spending 6 nights in a row in Karazhan, then 6 nights in Gruul's Lair, etc.

You have a friend, but did you check it out yourself? I completely and utterly disagree with your friend. But hey, it's a big world out there hehe.

Personally, I find Vanguard offers more to the casual player than people like to admit.

Is it perfect? Nope, but no game is. Is it deep and fullfilling? I find it to be.

Don't get me wrong, I've always got my ear to the ground, waiting for the "next big thing" but right now (and believe me I'm testing a LOT) there's not a lot on the horizon. I'm interested in testing Age of Conan. Warhammer Online has some neat ideas but is really nothing more than WoW v.2.0.

What I would love? A Sci-Fi, Blade Runner/Shadowrun sandbox style MMO. Chances of that happens are pretty much zilch though with all the major brands being consolidated together (EA Mythic, Activision/Blizzard for examples), they are less likely to take risks (thank you share holders) and more likely to follow tried and true (and old!) styles of play. It's my hope that a small, upstart company somewhere (which is usually what it takes) comes up with the next big win.

Some family members gifted me a copy of Vanguard for Christmas (they play it too), and after playing it for a while I absolutely love it! I played UO back in 1998, EQ1 from 1999 to 2005 and EQ2 in 2005, and I find Vanguard a refreshing taste of fantasy MMO roots. The quests are fun (very interactive and physical), the environment is beautiful and on a HUGE scale (i.e. mountains actually look like mountains in proportion/height compared to ground, and can be scaled). I prefer a more "realism" graphics approach than WoW's purposely cartoony style.

The content to me feels a little less canned and restrictive than EQ2 (just my opinion, at least that is how I felt when EQ2 was released). Yes the game requires a fast machine to play it, but on my newest build and 22" wide LCD I am running full settings without problem.

Give this game a try and a chance. I love it.

Just for fun, I tried to pick up a copy while I was out running around buying Christmas presents last week - no one has a copy in stock around here. I realize I could order it, but when a game can't get on the shelves of stores that usually doesn't fortell a good future.

I'm having lots of fun in Tabula Rasa, a game which finally offers a strong solo element as well as team play. EQ2 frustrated me with stupid linked mobs, where no amount of strategy was going to split them. I understand they changed that later, but the initial design was dumb.

Hey Cados, what server you playing on?

You have a friend, but did you check it out yourself? I completely and utterly disagree with your friend. But hey, it's a big world out there hehe.

Personally, I find Vanguard offers more to the casual player than people like to admit.

Is it perfect? Nope, but no game is. Is it deep and fullfilling? I find it to be.

Don't get me wrong, I've always got my ear to the ground, waiting for the "next big thing" but right now (and believe me I'm testing a LOT) there's not a lot on the horizon. I'm interested in testing Age of Conan. Warhammer Online has some neat ideas but is really nothing more than WoW v.2.0.

What I would love? A Sci-Fi, Blade Runner/Shadowrun sandbox style MMO. Chances of that happens are pretty much zilch though with all the major brands being consolidated together (EA Mythic, Activision/Blizzard for examples), they are less likely to take risks (thank you share holders) and more likely to follow tried and true (and old!) styles of play. It's my hope that a small, upstart company somewhere (which is usually what it takes) comes up with the next big win.

I played it at his house over the holiday, and he - much like I - don't enjoy it. Its got all of the problems it had, maybe just to a lesser degree. Also, just because the 3 major video game houses are all held in one company doesn't mean they all are. http://www.38studios.com/ is a brand new, tiny MMORPG company headed by Curt Schilling with big names like R.A. Salvatore (author of the Drizzt aka dark elf books) and Todd McFarlane (creator of Spawn). NCSoft has been publishing the mmorpgs of small firms like Cryptic Studios (created in 2000, made City of Heroes) and the recently released Marvel Universe Online - a super hero genra spawning out of the minds of a half dozen individuals. BioWare, another fairly small and new company, is putting out a new Star Wars MMORPG. These games are often spearheaded by very small teams of individuals and then bought up by larger companies for distribution much like feature films. You'll see hundreds of new names over the next decade as the genre keeps getting more and more popular.

There's been a lot of discussion of Bioware producing the next Star Wars MMO. It's still kinda up in the air at the moment, though believe me, I hope it comes to fruition.

I have to say though, Vanguard as of right now is the only thing that's given me anything near the sense of satisfaction that EQ gave me.

38 studios snarfed up many of the EQ2 devs as well. Though they have yet to announce anything about their venture just that it's fantasy based and it's been well over a year since it formed, first as Green Monster. I'm staying interested though as I really like Blackguard and Moorguard so we'll see what comes of it.

I've seen some writes about the Star Trek MMO in the works. It looks very cool :D

Actually there's a lot of doubt as to if the Star Trek MMO will even see the light of day. Perpetual Entertainment (the guys doing the game) caught a lot of flack for laying off a shit load of people as well as completely dropping Gods and Heroes, just before release. The game was very playable, in the final stages of beta, and they just killed it.

I hope it comes out, as they seem to have some neat ideas, but whereas Gods and Heroes was in beta, Star Trek is merely in development. There's not even an ETA on the beta which has a lot of people wondering if the game will make it at all.

Nope but I am at least seeing some good things with what I do see. There's a spread in this month's Game Informer.

As far as EQ2 and soloing, it's funny you mention about the linked mobs. The most bitching that is happening from people in this expansion is that there are too many solo mobs and quests. Most people go 70-80 solo. Which proves my point, that no matter what game devs do, some will be happy, others will not. :)

Tabula Rasa was fun for a while, I beta'ed it from the very early beginnings and it just got boring after a while. Though several of my good friends moved over to it and swear by it, it's just not my cup of tea.

There was a huge blowout/discussion in the 70-79 channel tonight on my EQ2 server about Vanguard and how shitty it is. It was very amusing to see all the people who "went back to try it" say how it's still shitty. Of course the 2 fanbois were foaming at the mouth, it was quite entertaining!

Also Pirates of the Burning Sea went into open beta. I hear good things about it but I haven't tried it since very early beta myself. YAAAARRRRRRRR.

Funny you should mention the people playing EQ2 saying how shitty Vanguard is, when people playing Vanguard say how shitty EQ2 is. It's really six in one, half a dozen in the other. Both are of the same genre, but are completely different games.

To be honest, EQ2 bored me. The overinstancing just killed any sense of world. The quests were uninspired and the character models were "meh" at best. The cities (the few there are) are merely a rehash of the EQ cities of long ago, namely a maze with rooms going off the corridors. You want to see inspired city design? Go to New Tarangor, or Leth Nurae, or Khal, just to name three of MANY cities that actually feel like cities.

Vanguard for me, offers far more exploration potential. It reminds me of the old EQ, but with newer graphics. There are no quests leading you from chunk to chunk, holding your hand. It's a HUGE world, but it's up to you to explore it. To those that say they can't find anything to do, you haven't gone and looked.

For those that say the game performs shitty, well, get some new hardware! You don't need to spend a lot, but take it from someone who worked at building gaming machines, there's been huge changes in the last couple of years. You don't need a super computer, but it does require you to have a decent one. I didn't spend a small fortune on my rig, and it plays Vanguard perfectly. The game is beautiful and the population keeps getting bigger every day. If you can play any of the new games coming out these days (Call of Duty 4, Crysis, Supreme Commander, etc), then Vanguard is no exception.

True that people will complain either way, but you would suppose that good game design would involve trying to appease both sides to some extent. Sort of like EQ1 - for a while all there was at the end game was mass raiding, which killed the game if you weren't a raider. Before I quit the devs were finally addressing some of those issues. LDON though is the perfect example of an expansion which requires grouping to do anything. That was fine while people were playing it - but once the next shiny thing came out it became nearly impossible to find LDON groups of significance.

SWG is a great example of a game that combined different play styles, especially in its second and third incarnations. The problem with that game is that the devs fail to listen or communicate with their community - it's interesting watching SOE kill their own games, and a big part of my hesitation to buy Vanguard or go back to EQ2. After the time investment that was destroyed in SWG, I'm a little hesitant to work with them.

It's ok, I hope you enjoy Vanguard along with the other 10 people who are playing ;) I float from game to game so much that I don't have any loyalty to any specific game. I will go back to WoW soon, I don't need that one game to tie me down. That's the great thing about the market these days, there are so many games you're bound to find something you like.

I will agree with you on SoE killing their game, they suck :)

Hell of a lot more than 10 people playing LOL. The Raid chunks are blocked with folks, so much so that they're thinking of adding more just to accomodate the demand. The game is growing. When SOE finishes implementing their updates (all VERY well done thus far), me thinks you'll see even more growth.

Binuven sorry for the late reply, but I am on the Seradon server as, who else, Cados =).

From what I can tell these days, many MMO players are looking for a quick fix in which they don't have to put much effort or creative thinking (almost like firing up a quick FPS game server), and then they hop onto the next game, not quite sure about what they are looking for and never quite satisfied.

As for game styles/features, I personally dislike instancing (takes away at least a portion of "realism" in my opinion) and unnecessary take-me-by-the-hand features (some are nice, but others take away from continued playability/"realism", at least for me).

As Binuven said earlier, the cities in Vanguard, for example, are quite impressive. I don't mean any of this to be an insult or a declaration that Vanguard is the only cool game. This game should continue to be given a chance; the fresh lore and world are refreshing to me as an MMO gamer looking for an epic, semi-realistic fantasy game experience that still requires skill and effort. It looks to me like SOE is fostering it as an alternative, more original style fantasy MMO game.

Do they still have the one pass thing for all the games or do you have to purchase a subscription to each individual game?

Yes, they do. Update 4 is supposed to come out at the end of this month too! Great time to check it out! :D