If you haven't heard the news yet, Vanguard Pre-Order boxes should be available at select stores (IE: Gamestop, Best Buy, and Fry's).

Check it out!

www.vanguardsoh.com (http://www.vanguardsoh.com)

I have been playing some this week and allot has changed/been fixed but I'm telling you if this game comes out before March it's going to make you hate it :(

Ugh, I'd LOVE for the chance to play it and see what it's like.

If anyone is looking to ditch their beta invite, let me know!

Mmm, same here. It looks like I'll be quitting my job and going to school full time to get my degree. I'll need a game to keep me occupied when I should be studying :)

This is like a slow motion train wreck....very slow motion

I have been playing some this week and allot has changed/been fixed but I'm telling you if this game comes out before March it's going to make you hate it :(

I have heard folks say the same thing. If they put it out before things are fixed it is going to make folks hate it. I sure hope they postpone it before they will put it out too soon. Either way it is okay...Love my EQ! /swoon!

I still can't get over how laggy and giant the game still is at this stage. I originally played some on a friend's account, and it was tolerable with everything maxed low pretty much (on a 3.2 ghz, 2 gig ram, 7900 GT system).

I got a personal invite again later on (about a month or two ago), and the thing is still as laggy as ever. It's still over 20 gigs. Its fucking ridiculous if they are planning on releasing this any time soon from what I've seen.

Btw, Binu Pm me about a beta account.

Sounds like that 'no zones' idea may be biting them in the ass.

Did you just say it's a 20 gig install?

Yeah, it's a whopper, but then again most games are getting to be that big these days.

Apparently EB Games up here in Canada now has an official release date and has set a price. $119.99 +tax CDN for my collectors edition hehe. (Taxes being 14% at that!!!)

Did you just say it's a 20 gig install?

22+GB at last patch I did; I haven't repatched in a week though so it could be more. You guys need to also remember there is TONS of debugging going on and one has to wonder if some of that is not included in the install. It might not be though and it could be that big.

They finally have a date and a price at the EB Games stores here in Canada. $119.99 + tax for my collectors edition.

Thats a lot of money to waste on a game that is pretty unplayable.

Thats a lot of money to waste on a game that is pretty unplayable.

/agree


Beta 4 now; guesstimates are 3 months or so till release.

Well, I am a Keith Parkinson art fan. The book alone is worth a few bucks. And I'm holding on to a small bit of hope that this game will be the new EQ reborn, complete with challenge, fun, frustration and old friends again. The game can be broken and still be moderately successful.....at least until the dev's try to completely rehaul a game after three years and make it into something completely different (see SWG and it's community).

As far as the game goes, there's always room for improvement. Having played a LOT of games out there in either Beta or as an impulse buy, most of them have some sort of problem with them at release. I'm not too worried during this phase of the beta as that is exactly what beta is for, namely fixing shit. Am I grasping for straws? Meh.

To be honest, with 2006 being the most BLAH year for MMO's I've ever seen, this is one of the three games that's keeping me excited (Vanguard, Age of Conan, Gods & Heroes) and hoping that something new and fresh will come out for us to play.

So yes or no on Vanguard???

Seems like a lot of mixed responses.

Definate yes here.

If the game flops....well, I'll still stick with it for a few months, then if it doesn't pan out there's always Age of Conan between March and May months. :)

I was a yes after reading all of the stuff on their site, but switched to a no rapidly after attempting to play. Its just not playable right now. I hope it gets better, but Everquest1 is by comparison a lot more fluid.

Hehe, well people have to remember, that during a beta test, the company will generally stress the performance of the game far more than they would during the release.

I'm currently beta testing the LOTRO game. Lately there's been a lot of server load testing, and though it's been holding up somewhat, there are times where you are glued to the same spot for two to three minutes before you can move again.

Would this be acceptable at release? Of course not, but it is not their intent to release the game like this. They want to see how many people they can safely put on a server before the load becomes completely unacceptable. (Lets face it, in all things online, there will be some lag......whoa, that's almost philosophical!!! ^_^ )

It's the same when people argue about content in games that are currently in beta. People often complain that certain classes, races, abilities, dungeons or other content is not available while beta testing the game. People also have to remember that a company cannot show all their cards. There WILL be competitors sneaking in to have a "peek" around to see what's coming up on the competition radar. SOE had people in the WoW beta's for EQ2 and I'm sure Blizzard reciprocated.

It's all good. Sit back, relax and enjoy the show. I have faith in that, though the game will probably not be perfect (what launch ever is?), I'm sure it will be quite playable at release.

There, pre-order all paid for, though I won't get my pre-order box till late next month. Bleh.

It's all good. Sit back, relax and enjoy the show. I have faith in that, though the game will probably not be perfect (what launch ever is?), I'm sure it will be quite playable at release.

I'm glad you have faith, because its laggier than any other game I've ever seen during its alpha stage. It has nothing to do with server load testing, it was laggy with 100 people online.

I am 100% in agreement with Kelraz. The game looked awesome on paper, the game itself, however, is a giant pile of crap. If they are planning on making optimaztions, they need to do it fast. Though, the fact that they've waited this long to do it in the first place is enough to make me not play it anyways. The first time I was playing it, the major spell line my class had was completely broken. It didn't do anything. It wasn't fixed for the entire time I played, which was about 2 months. Anyone that slow to make changes (beta or not), won't get my money.

The lag has been an issue for over a year (Yes, a year). It was an issue when only 50 people could log on, and it's still an issue now.

Whats going to give this game any business is people clinging to immersion and the fact that it may bring back what EQ did in the first place. Too bad that's impossible.

What made EQ so special is that the genre was very unpopular at its release. The game started with a very small, but mature base of players.

What made EQ what it was, is quite simply the fact that no one knew what was going on half the time. There weren't maps, there weren't quest walkthroughs, there weren't markers on top of everyone's head that offered a quest, and there weren't 15 fan sites that told you the best and most efficient way to do everything. The ones that were there didn't contain nearly as much info as todays.

Now you can figure everything out about a game before it even hits stores most of the time. That is the sole reason why the mysticism of EQ won't ever return.

Vanguard is trying, at least it seemed like they were back the first time I played by using vagueness as a tool. I don't know if it's changed, but back then they were pretty adamant about keeping things the way they were for immersion purposes. Quests were vague as hell, you were never sure if you were going to the right spot. The map was huge and unzoomable, etc.

The result? A frustrating gaming experience that feels incomplete, unfinished, and annoying, overall.

2nd gen mmos spoiled us with all the neat user-friendly features included. You can't just take them away and expect people to be able to slip back into how it was 7 years ago (or whatever) with EQ, given how the other elements surrounding the game have changed so much. At least, you can't expect that out of many people.

There are people I'm sure that will love the game. I saw some in beta. Those people, though (the ones from beta), are not ones I would want to ever spend part of my gaming career with. :-p

I would have to agree 110% with everything that Samansuke just typed. It is true; if you think they are going to pull a rabbit out of the hat before release I just don't see how. There is a TON of things missing/broken/not even in the game yet and the way it is sounding it is soon to release. It is the WORST beta I have ever seen and I will tell you now I have beta'ed allot of games and expansions. There is no way I will play this game after release.

Well, if you don't like it so much, give me your beta info! :)

I thought someone gave you theirs already? I am not giving mine up b/c I have station pass and all my SoE games are tied to that account. The last time I tried to play EQ1 and EQ2 at the same time it wouldn't let me.

Nope, no beta info from anyone. I'd kill to at least try this beast out myself.

I'm not doubting anything anyone is saying here, I guess I'm still caught up in the hype. But I can't give up on a game that I haven't even played yet.

The wild west days of MMo's are truly gone now....

Hopefully someday there will be an mmo that will bring something to the table that has never been done before.

Well, don't count them out yet. With all the companies looking to mirror or even exceed Blizzard's success, I'm sure something has to catch.

I have to admit that the more I play WoW this time around the more I am continually impressed by it. Those guys got it right; the game is so fun for me and suits my current playstyle better than anything else I have tried or beta tested (save EQ2 :) ). Obviously I am speaking from a mid-20s experience but so far it's been really great. I can't put my finger on it but it is different from when I tried it before and it seems better. The game is REALLY fun.

I've been having a little fun with WoW on the side. Some local friends play, so if I keep enjoying the game I hope to level up and raid with them. I think I like most aspects of EQ2 better, but WoW has some good features, and their version of the druid is pretty interesting.

WoW had some great ideas....it's too bad the guys with the great ideas don't work there anymore. They are the reason the game launched so well, imho.

Quite a few of them, including the project team leader have their own company now, I'm trying to remember the name....

Fild, Thor, just tell me you want Horde :) - although it's a shame that they're about to saddle us with... elves :/... and you guys need to at least stop by Alleria/Horde and give say hello sometime! Willgatus will be going to paladin main come BC and we will be levelling up a pack of kids at that time (we're plenty alty anyway, but definitely will have a bunch of people on low levels then) and it would be great to see you... :)

Warm (well, as warm as you get from a friendly lich, anyway ;) ) regards,
Nydia

I'm on Stormrage, Alliance. Just got my invite to VG beta today tho', so if it functions at all for me I'll be doing some of that. If...

Dammit! Where's my invite!??!?!?

yay hour number 8 on patching and 3 more left to go !!!!!!

I am SO Jealous right now!!!!

Read your PMs :)

Well looks like the game is coming out about the end of January :( I was hoping for March to May so they could polish it up some more.

Actually I've had the chance to....play it (wouldn't want to admit I'm in beta or not due to NDA hehehe, thank you Lanilya <3 ), and I have to say it's not as bad as people made it out to be. Even with server and player lag, i'm getting on avg 30 to 35 FPS on 2GB of RAM, an AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ and an X1900GT 256MB vid card.

That being said, you will need at least an upper middle end machine to run the game, so if you're looking at upgrading, now is the time to do it. Do you need the best of the best? No. If you need help picking parts, feel free to pick my brain, it's what I do for a living hehe. If you want some ideas for parts, check out our store at www.avalonsoftware.com (http://www.avalonsoftware.com/) . These are generally some of the parts we try to keep in stock on a regular basis. There are other parts that we do special order, but at least getting some of the company names will give you an idea on where to look.

With 2GB of RAM (not unreasonable these days), and a decent mid range card the game is playable. Yes, they do have some work to do polish wise, but I'd put it at the same spot WoW was at when they were at the equivalent of Beta 4. There are games that are released as we speak that are in worse shape than this game that is in Beta.

Also, the boxes are being released Jan 30, but I believe that's so folks can get into Beta 5 (otherwise doing the pre-order would be pointless....... I could be wrong) with their pre-orders.

If not, no big deal, no game really releases in perfect condition, as there are always changes made that cannot be forseen in beta. I'm looking forward to it and will keep my CE and play this game. :)

I'm REALLY impressed with the Bard song system, being able to develop your own songs and name them is WAY cool, and look Ma, no tendonitus!!! It gives the bard complete control over his/her song sets and really sets the class apart from other classes.

Then it has changed b/c I do have an upper/middle system and I was lucky to get 10fps. It was so frustrating I just stopped playing and it turned me off to the game; that and I hate the graphics (character models) oh and like every quest I tried to do was broken. If you like it though, go for it :)

binny all i can say is animuscerri send a tell some time

From what I've read its been hit or miss. Some people with really nice systems get 12-15 fps tops, some people with middle of the road systems are getting 20-25. Needless to say, there's a lot of shit to fix.

As far as it being as progressed at WoW at this stage, I'd have to disagree. I logged in again the other day to check changes, and I lagged so much I could barely create a character. When I got past character creation, and logged in for the first time, I got stuck in the world and couldn't move. I figured whatever, it's a bug, relogged.. still stuck.

Then I was like well, maybe something is just screwy, then I turned around and there were two other people stuck in the ground there with me, heh.

Wait until you get past level 20 or so, the quest amount dies almost completely, and levels move along sluggishly. This may be appealing to some people, but I'm not one of them.

WoW still had its bugs, and the problem with the servers when it went live, but in VG i've been able to find a geometry or bug pretty much every 5-10 minutes of gameplay. Maybe I'm just unlucky.

Regardless, I don't think VG wants a January release. I imagine it has something to do with funding or being forced by an alternate party (Though you would never know since the devs haven't really posted shit in like a month and a half about what's going on with the game). Anyone that would release a game within 2 weeks of WoW's expansion on purpose has to be at least mildly retarded. Even if WoW has server problems again like original release, people are going to buy and play the shit out of it -- I do think they've done as much as they can to make sure that there won't be a whole lot of changes with the expansion though, ie. adding in newer instance areas like the one I stumbled upon in Deadwind Pass yesterday, putting in the lfg tool and all the talents, etc. I don't think the WoW expansion will be completely smooth, but unless they really really (really) fuck up, Vanguard will be in trouble with that release date.

EQ2 even beat WoW on the release date if memory serves correctly, and despite WoW's problems early on, EQ2 eventually got destroyed by having a sub-par game at release. Even though they made a lot of changes and the game got much better later on, people weren't willing to try it due to its state at release and WoW's success.

I agree.
The mentality that it's ok to release shit and then fix it later is SoE's mantra. The trouble is people are sick of it and it appears Sigil is going that route too. While Blizzards time lines are too long at least things appear to go smoother. Sadly this is the case with most software companies/vendors I've dealt with. Release it soon even if it's crap we'll fix the bugs as we go. One would think that after this long at dominating the MMO market someone would wise up to Blizzard's strategy. I still like EQ2 better overall I just hate how it's run. There is no way I will play VG after release :(

Having played WoW in beta I can say, if even half of VG's bugs/glitches are true, then its no where near as polished as WoW was. Most of WoW's issues were due to the sheer amount of people playing on the few servers they had in a companys first MMO.

They do screw up patches plenty though :)

As others have previously stated it's a long long way from near any form of release. With out spoiling for much more of the NDA I aint a buying.

Reading Binuven's and Fildien's post, can it be that Vanguard is working faster with ATI cards than Geforce series? I mean, if you both have upper-middle machine, maybe the difference is that the ATI cards react better to the coding of Vanguard than the Nvidia cards - of course, if Fildien also has ATI card, my post makes no sense :)

Lani

Hehe, well it could be that (good observation btw, I never even thunk it :) ), but it could be also the standard that people expect when they play a game that is in beta.

The game has just gone Beta 4, which means it still has not gone to open beta yet. There's still work to be done, and that's cool. They haven't released it yet and certainly haven't asked for money yet. Considering what the game is trying to do, I find it's working very well, much better than say Lord of the Rings Online. Take all the lag in Vanguard, multiply it by 10, and then make it as instanced as Dungeons and Dragons Online, then you know my frustration. Then there are the slew of games coming out that should be no where NEAR release, such as 9Dragons, Archlord, RF Online, Lineage 2, etc, etc.

It's sad to say, but if a game has anime like graphics, point to click movement, and female character models with well endowed (and jiggly!) boobies, then the game is almost certain to fail just due to track record. Yes it's wrong to stereotype, but judging a game based on these characteristics has almost become gospel.

My comparison of Vanguard is often put up against these games, so if I seem a little more optimistic, you know why. Compared to what has been released in 2006, and what is on the way for 2007, Vanguard is a diamond in the rough. The only other games that might give it some trouble are Age of Conan (go download the latest video...VERY nice, due out Q2 2007), Gods and Heroes (Q1 or Q2 2007) and Warhammer Online (again, looks really nice, but not due out until Q4 2007 and that's iffy still.)

I'm pretty confident that Vanguard will be good for release. And for those that say WoW was polished on release, it couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, the raid zones didn't come out until three months after release.

And for those that say WoW was polished on release, it couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, the raid zones didn't come out until three months after release.

Onyxia and Molten Core were both in at release. Where did you come up with that figure? They came out the last weeks of the final phase of Beta. Mauradon came out less than a month after release. Dire Maul was released 3/22, a little under 3 months after release. The PVP reward system came 5/5, 5 months after release. Other than the pvp content, World of Warcraft was very polished at release. They didn't need to patch it for a month afterwards and the 1.2 patch was pretty minimal aside from Mauradon. Dire Maul was released before most people hit 60 anyway.

I beta tested WoW almost 6 months before release and it was very playable then. Today, Vanguard still isn't playable. I crash and lag out almost nonstop on a very decent machine.

Hmm, that's odd, because I remember some people in Turkey's in Training waiting for the Molten Core zone to open almost three months into the release of the game. I do know they were working on it, but that they were still working some of the bugs out. I was still a little low for the zone when everyone was heading into it at the time, but I could be wrong.

WoW during it's final months of beta was very well polished, that no one can deny. However, I have to say I've yet to have any trouble with VG. Does this mean that this will continue to be the case? Who knows? That's what beta testing is for! Here's hoping I can get on my friends system again and play some more. ;)

EQ2 gets a bad rep strictly because the people who dont like the game are the vocal people. It was a really fun game from day 1 still is to this day, i'd be playing but im burnt out on mmo's and my computer is in the sheeter.

EQ2 gets a bad rep simply because they were tarred and feathered with the same brush EQ was. When WoW came out, it was like the "anti EQ". Those people that had screamed and shouted about class balance, long raid times, etc, etc and had been ignored, finally had a banner to rally around.

I'm willing to bet that if EQ2 had been under any other name, it might have done better.

I'm willing to bet that if EQ2 had been under any other name, it might have done better.

Funny, i did the trial about 2 months ago and found it lacking. /shrug, but hen again i'm still having a blast in WoW. It's a great game as long as you are not playing from a hardcore position i guess.
Saddens me greatly to hear the negative reports about VG. I had such high hopes for this one. that Wii is looking better and better.

Reading Binuven's and Fildien's post, can it be that Vanguard is working faster with ATI cards than Geforce series? I mean, if you both have upper-middle machine, maybe the difference is that the ATI cards react better to the coding of Vanguard than the Nvidia cards - of course, if Fildien also has ATI card, my post makes no sense :)

Lani


Sadly that's a no :( Two other people that I work with are in the beta and one guy has one of the newer ATI cards x800?! I don't follow models so I don't know. His lag was even worse than mine. I think, as someone said it's hit or miss and it doesn't matter what your hardware is. Reading beta boards this is truth, some people with bare min. machines run better than I do.

The big thing seems to be system RAM.

The game, though laggy at times, is playable. I just spent three hours playing....on my friends computer. :) There are people playing that game with 6xxx series cards and are able to function, so the game isn't THAT dependant on video, though they'd be the first to admit they have everything turned down.

I'm really not having that much trouble with the game. The occasional lag spike, but nothing unexpected while beta testing a game. Btw, if you ever get the chance, play a Goblin, damn they are fun hehe. Just got a goblin rogue to 7.

The x800 is a bit old card - X850 is somewhat better. I wouldnt be surprised to see a slow-motion with x800. Then again it depends a lot on system memory too, I would only compare such videocards above 2GB memory.

Best source for card speed is for me tom's hardware. Shortcut to VGA charts is:

http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&model1=606&model2=607&chart=210

Back to subject, since Beta 4 is not open yet, it might be that end of January only beta5 comes out, right?

Lani

It's the x850 that he has I just asked him. He has 2GB of system RAM as well and so do I. The other guy in beta has a system older than ours and has minimal lag. It's hit or miss ;) Have fun in VG guys I'll never play it :p

A bug flew into my case, landed on my video card, and fried it. So it'll be a few days before I get a replacement (still under warranty, fortunately) and see what VG is like without deteriorating video. Other than weird artifacts showing up, I wasn't having much trouble (2GB RAM, 7900GT, dual core). I've read that dual core can make a lot of difference, but I'm not savvy with such things.

Hmm, that's odd, because I remember some people in Turkey's in Training waiting for the Molten Core zone to open almost three months into the release of the game. I do know they were working on it, but that they were still working some of the bugs out. I was still a little low for the zone when everyone was heading into it at the time, but I could be wrong.
Ony and MC were definitely in at release. They were in during beta, for that matter.

You might recall, there was a contest to kill either an MC boss or Ony before the end of beta.

A bug flew into my case, landed on my video card, and fried it...

Not to laugh at your pain... but..


HAHAHAHAHAHA


Sorry... that was just really funny to me. Hehe.

you keep your case open? How did that happen? :)
GL on getting it fixed!

Newp, case was closed, with just the not-particularly-sieve-like vents for entry. I'd been noticing weird artifacting in the online games and other weirdness for a few weeks, then rendering just...stopped last weekend. A friend spent several hours NYD trying all manner of fixes before pulling out the card itself and proclaiming, "Your videocard is bugged. Literally."

He added, "This could only happen to you."

Which, given my mercurial history with electronics is only too true.

LOL, I just finished telling the guys in our service department what happened.

I actually had to show them this post so they would believe me.

At least it's being covered by warranty, that's the main thing. :)

not to make light of what happened or the vanguard pre order but when i was a lowly bench tech making more money than i knew what to do with at Computer City(gawd i missed commission on what i fixed) I had a printer that had spent some time in south america with one of my gov contracts that had died. The reason it died was the a centipede had crawled in and shorted the thing out. I opened the printer and found it laying across the board all toasty. Hp fixed it , but required i send them the board and the centipede.

I also had a customer that had an autistic child that had a cat that hated him and would pee in the kids computer. After the third time i repaired it Apple told me to tell them that they no longer covered cat pee as a warranty item. lolololol They bought the kid an Imac later and the cat had to go to the vet when he pee'd on the top and got shocked from the Powersupply/Analog Video boards up top... that was so funny the store fixed the computer for free.... I wonder what ever happened to that cat!

I lauged so hard I cried when I read this. :p



not to make light of what happened or the vanguard pre order but when i was a lowly bench tech making more money than i knew what to do with at Computer City(gawd i missed commission on what i fixed) I had a printer that had spent some time in south america with one of my gov contracts that had died. The reason it died was the a centipede had crawled in and shorted the thing out. I opened the printer and found it laying across the board all toasty. Hp fixed it , but required i send them the board and the centipede.

I also had a customer that had an autistic child that had a cat that hated him and would pee in the kids computer. After the third time i repaired it Apple told me to tell them that they no longer covered cat pee as a warranty item. lolololol They bought the kid an Imac later and the cat had to go to the vet when he pee'd on the top and got shocked from the Powersupply/Analog Video boards up top... that was so funny the store fixed the computer for free.... I wonder what ever happened to that cat!

Hehe, well it could be that (good observation btw, I never even thunk it :) ), but it could be also the standard that people expect when they play a game that is in beta.

The game has just gone Beta 4, which means it still has not gone to open beta yet. There's still work to be done, and that's cool. They haven't released it yet and certainly haven't asked for money yet. Considering what the game is trying to do, I find it's working very well, much better than say Lord of the Rings Online. Take all the lag in Vanguard, multiply it by 10, and then make it as instanced as Dungeons and Dragons Online, then you know my frustration. Then there are the slew of games coming out that should be no where NEAR release, such as 9Dragons, Archlord, RF Online, Lineage 2, etc, etc.

It's sad to say, but if a game has anime like graphics, point to click movement, and female character models with well endowed (and jiggly!) boobies, then the game is almost certain to fail just due to track record. Yes it's wrong to stereotype, but judging a game based on these characteristics has almost become gospel.

My comparison of Vanguard is often put up against these games, so if I seem a little more optimistic, you know why. Compared to what has been released in 2006, and what is on the way for 2007, Vanguard is a diamond in the rough. The only other games that might give it some trouble are Age of Conan (go download the latest video...VERY nice, due out Q2 2007), Gods and Heroes (Q1 or Q2 2007) and Warhammer Online (again, looks really nice, but not due out until Q4 2007 and that's iffy still.)

I'm pretty confident that Vanguard will be good for release. And for those that say WoW was polished on release, it couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, the raid zones didn't come out until three months after release.

Not sure if you meant this literally or not but, Lineage 2 has been out for years, I beta'd it infact back in 2003. Its most definitely not a failure ( or a good game), it has more subscribers than EQ and EQ2 put together several times over.

Also from what I have read you seem to be in the minority on feeling Vanguard is more polished than LoTRonline. Not that I will play a turbine game, and definitely have high hopes for Vanguard.

Also the last thing to keep in mind with expectations, when games are coming out int he same genre as mega giants like WoW and Lineage 1, people expect games to be polished.

Eq2 is now a good game ( not my cup of tea yet) and have one of the best development teams in the industry at the moment. Scott rocks, wish he worked on WoW, but the state of the game at realease killed any hopes of it being a bigger success than it currently is. Many people will try a game once when it comes out and if its terrible will not come back. There are many more options out there, was the 7.5 million WoW players will tell you.

I really hope Vanguard doesnt suck, but im not to optimistic if they rush it out, and many many many more are saying its not ready than are. :(

Hehe, I can give you my LOTRO info if you like and you can check it out.

It does have the Tolkien feel, but that is immediately and brutally murdered with the over abundance of instancing.

I'm sure (at least I hope) they've addressed the issue of the horrendous lag in recent weeks.

I found the game, though ok, to be a watered down version of a marriage between WoW and DDO, without the evil side and absolutely no PvP other than player duels. I'm not a huge PvPer, but to not even have the option these days is hardly acceptable.

Lineage 2 is most certainly not new, as I did beta test it as well. Heck, I spent the first three days looking at my jiggling, life affirming jumblies on my dark elf female (insert class here cause it didn't really matter.) Admit it, you all did too!!! :p And they have huge subscription bases compared to American products, but not because the game is anything better, but simply because the Asian market is that much bigger than the American market.

WoW's success stems from the fact that Blizzard got smart, made a game that anyone could pick up and start playing, and they marketed it world wide. Even if they only nab a fraction of the players out there, having a fraction of 6 Billion people is HELL of a lot better than having a fraction of....what......350 million for the US? (Help me out here)....40 million for Canada.....How many in Europe? See where I'm going with this?

Vanguard is by no means perfect, but from what I've read here and what I've experienced, I would have to disagree with the overall negative sentiment. Would I release the game right now? NO. Does it need months and months of work? I wouldn't say that. Beta 4 just released. Give that till the end of January, or even February if possible, then have a month of Beta 5 to stress test.

I'm trying out each and every race to see what each area is like. (My friend wants his computer back!) Some are fantastic! Others need work. The goblins and high elves starting areas and quests I found were not too confusing, fun, and the rewards were really quite decent. Leveling was easy, the graphics were amazing, and with the exception of the occasional lag speed bump, I played each for about 3 to 4 hours uninterrupted.

The cat people (don't remember their names) and the Half Elves areas do need work. Though the cat people have a nice looking beginning area, I found myself very easily confused, as I'm sure they've alreayd heard. The Half Elves I found to be still a work in progress and yes, there is more lag there for some reason.

Overall I think it's going to be a great game. Where it will go? Who knows? I can definately see the WoW influence on the interface and quest system though, and that's not a bad thing! WoW has one of the best interfaces on the go for any game.

Needless to say, I'm keeping my preorder ;)

I hear they added item decay to the game ontop of an exp penalty for dieing? I hope not, thats one of the things I hated most about raiding in WoW.

Wanted to add that I will try Vanguard atleast for the first month, unless when the NDA drops and we get flooded with more complaints.

I am very interested in the game, and really want it to be great.

I hear they added item decay to the game ontop of an exp penalty for dieing? I hope not, thats one of the things I hated most about raiding in WoW.

Its all part of the Vision(tm) Chanur. :rolleyes:

all i can say is Gnome > all!

Sounds like the chips really are stacked against Vanguard, and it would make more sense for them to bide their time......unless they are totally out of money and must release it by a certain date or write the game off. Is there even a market for Vanguard to recoup what is probably a huge development cost? Everquest and EQ2 are pretty much cult games now. Other games fill in niches here and there in various markets but it was their market locations that dictated their success. WoW is the benchmark for success because they captured the mass market appeal. Make a game that is well optimized to the point it will run on grandma's Pentium II 500 mhz almost, easy to learn, builds on an existing franchise and its plot, sets a fantasy ambience while pursuing a artistic style that doesn't require being photoreal, PvP, PvP and more PvP. The list goes on and on. WoW hit one out of the park in that reguard, but the game fails in that its too easy for some and a rather shallow, but it still makes the GNP of south american nations DAILY. And now WoW is releasing an expansion? Lots of luck Vanguard.


It seem like Vanguard is going to try to blow away all other games graphically, but a good bet they will focus just on that eyecandy and slack on such things as plausible story, character development, and the other points that is what is really going to make the game a success. If people have to massively upgrade their machines just to run the game and when it finally runs the game it turns out to just be a never ending NVidia 3d demo? Its as good as a failure, on par with constructing the world's tallest building that promices to cure cancer just by dining at the roof top lounge and then installing an elevator system that is so flawed it never reaches the top floor. If Vanguard is going to be a success it best offer the depth of a New York Times best selling novel in the execution of its quests and raids and interaction of players with the game world, which is one place upstarts tend to fail in since a good plot doesn't grab the attention of those looking at screenshots and box covers.

From what I have heard so far I am not even going to bother buying this game. Binny, I really hate to burst your bubble on this too, since your never ending quest for the perfect MMO is not going to stop at this latest offering.

Hehe, no worries bro. :)

So far, I'm liking what I'm seeing, but again that's just me. I'm probably more..... tolerant than most when it comes to a new and upcoming game. Worst case scenario, VG bombs, shuts down, I play EQ1 for the rest of my days and wait for Age of Conan to release. There are a slew of other games in development as well (Star Trek, Stargate and Fallout just to name a few), so the years to come might offer something that we're looking for now.

Looks like "open" beta for VG will be starting tomorrow or in the next couple of days.

It started today.

There's been a lot of patching going on, and everytime I log on there have been noticeable improvements.

The majority of the lag I'm seeing now is simply from the amount of players on the screen. Server side lag has actually been pretty decent.

The typical places are lag fests simply due to player numbers: Dark Elves and Dwarves are two that come to mind.

I personally think that Beta 4 should probably have run till the end of January and THEN do the open beta for say 2 weeks. I guess on the other side of the coin, it's been 5 or 6 years now, so it's probably time they started to ante up for the investers.

All in all, I'm still buying. :)

I think playing a goblin would be sweet :)

Hehe, got a Goblin Rogue made. It's hilarious because he's so small yet kicks so much ass.

I made him as ridiculous looking as possible too. Giant head, giant hands and feet, skinny body.

Btw, the NDA is lifted now, so you're gonna see stuff coming up all over the vanguard forums (www.vanguardsoh.com/forums (http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums))

Yup you beat me to it Bin... Now I can say this game is not for me.. I tried like hell to test it but the biggest issue I had was the names over NPC. They cut in and out an dI could not see them. I also saw people shouting for /consent. Not sure this was a joke or not but it horrified me. VG, to me mind you, is everything that made me quit Eq1. I thin I will be staying in EQ2 with the wifey...

I have a 3ghz P4 with 1 gig of ram and a 6800gt. A good if not middle of the road system and it was VERY laggy. No matter what I tried my poor toons never had hair either! Oh and that's another thing. GOD WHAT UGLY CHARACTER MODELS!

I agree the character models absolutely sucked rotten big toes YUCK. The mobs constantly rubber band and pathing was horrid. Not to mention every race I started I found several quests broken and I was a thorough tester I corrected tons and tons of grammar errors in quest text. I really liked Thestra's music and some of the combat concepts other than that ...... well that's it.

/consent wasn't a joke. You could revive at a tombstone for a price. The best part was 90% of the time I did that my gear would all be gone which would require a /petition. It was also fun to fall through the world and have the mobs chase you and fall through too and well you'd never die but you couldn't get out and logging out didn't help you'd come right back to being under the world with the mobs trying to hit you. /petition.

/petition my character doesn't have head. It was there and now it's gone.

Server side like was terrible. I would be in an area running 30FPS but my lag meter was red and it would take 30 sec to open a door.

Oh and the WoW interface rip off was laughable. Vanguard sucks :)

So far, I'm liking what I'm seeing...
The game looks great. I like the environments and really enjoyed making different races just to see various starting zones. But this game needs much more testing, much more fixing. It's not ready for Beta 5, and lifting the NDA now is a horrible move. I get a real sense that the money pit is running dry and they want to recoup what they can...fast.

I'm very disappointed in the game's progression.

Fild that's a thing I forgot to mention.. The music is actually VERY good. Kinda wish EQ2 would have gone more that style and theme. I might not have muted the music then.

Agreed, it's rare I keep music active in any MMO, but VG's is enjoyable.

There is a long running thread over ---> http://www.eq2flames.com/showthread.php?t=11 towards the end is where people start revealing their thoughts about the game from having played it.

Ok, so here's some thoughts on where might be a good idea to play in Vanguard so far.

The past couple of days, I've been trying to get as MANY newbie characters up and running as possible, just to get a feel for race starting areas and classes.

So far my favorites are still the high elf bard, the khashasa and the vulmane necromancer, and the goblin rogue. Still plugging away at the others, but these guys definate stand out as just fun toons to play. Going to keep at it though, I really want to get a feel for the character I want to play upon release.

Well, talked to my son last night and found out he has been doing the VG beta. He echoed all the comments on here regarding how bad the game sucks, and was really disappointed. Think I will be taking a pass on it.

However, he was drooling about LOTR online, and is setting aside money for that one; I almost fell asleep listening to him go on and on about the gameplay in LOTR.

LoTR online sucks, it's WoW with more realistic graphics.

LoTR online sucks, it's WoW with more realistic graphics.

Minus the PvP and the evil races. :(

I REALLY wanted to be a Nazghoul, or heck even just an Orc. One thing the companies should have learned by now is that you should NEVER limit yourself to a certain style of gameplay.

I'm not a huge PvP fan, infact I hardly PvP at all, but to have the option available is crucial to getting more people playing your game.

In all honesty, I have to place Vanguard above LOTR for a number of reasons.

1) I found the lag to be the same, this is more of a tie than a positive point.
2) The graphics on Vanguard are better. The environments beat LOTR, though not by as much as you might think. The Vanguard environment seem more "alive".
3) Instancing. Where Vanguard has no instancing, LOTR has an overabundance of it. You have to go into a house? Instance. Dungeon? Instance. That place over there? Instance. FAR too many loading screens. It's DDO all over again, without the fast paced action.

I will give LOTR kudos for keeping the Tolkien feel. The gear is very realistic looking (then again, so does Vanguard), and it has a feel that's across between the movies and the books. Other than that, it's a watered down version of WoW. I played it for a few days, but ultimately grew bored.

I guess you can rate an MMO by your drive to play it. When I played EQ, I couldn't wait to get home and login. Did that for years on end. Heck, I never grew tired of the game, rather I had to give it up at the time simply due to it not grooving with my family and work schedule. EQ2, SWG, EvE Online, etc, etc all were good, but not great. Generally from 3 to 6 months on I would stop playing them simply due to lack of interest. WoW was next to EQ in keeping me for almost 2 years, but the difference was I did grow sick of it. Unlike EQ, I no longer "crave" to play it.

Vanguard? Right now I'm chewing my nails waiting to get home so I can log on and play either my necro or my bard, though I think I might give either a Ranger or a Druid a try. So much choice!!! :D

Oh wow(no pun intended) then I think you'll like it for sure. It certainly is EQ1 with a new wrapper. Of course that thought makes a bunch of people throw up a little.. I do want to come back to it in about a year a see how it's doing. Maybe they will have the major bugs gone and some better features in for the less "hard-core" crowd. I get the same feeling you do about VG with EQ2 atm.....

That's the thing though, a lot of casual players are concerned it'll cater to raiders. The raiders who've been in the game since beta testing started and have toons @ 50, say that the game seems primarily focused on groups. Keep in mind though, this is only what I've read from a few people, so take it with a grain of salt.

All in all, I haven't needed to group yet, though I suspect once the teens kick in I might have to, then again it seems to be following WoW's formula (at least so far) that you're not stuck for doing anything.

The guy who runs eq2flames.com has set up http://www.vanguardflames.com/ if anyone is interested. And since they are taking down the vgsoh forums after golive and to my knowledge haven't announced "community forums" it could be interesting :)

Actually I liked how we used to have an independant server forum. I found people were able to really speak what was on their minds. Sure, there were the retarded moments, but heck, that made them all the more fun and alive.

Company run server forums are often over moderated and drier than a popcorn fart in the desert! Community run all the way baby!!

Back to VG..

Played a Druid last night for a bit.....WOW.

They've moved them from the healer class to the caster class. Yes they have some healing and buffing capabilities, but their main forte is ripping apart their enemies with the awesome force of nature! (Oooo, gotta write that one down!) LOTS of fun and a change of pace from the Necro (awesome class, but everyone and their dog has one).

Just getting into crafting. It's pretty neat! You have gear for each thing you do. Crafting clothes and tools, diplomacy clothes, and adventuring armor and weapons. This is definately cool and something new and fresh (hey, it doesn't take much to curl my toes ok? :p ) Best part is? You can have one set of each equipped at any given time. So, for example, I'm out killing shit in my armor and weapons, then I spot a nice tree to chop down, I go up and right click and immediately I'm changed into my harvesting gear and axe! Very handy!

Anyhow, if you are playing the open beta as we speak, post your character names here. I'd much rather group with people I know than people I don't, which reminds me, TRAINS ARE BACK! For people who had WoW as their first game, they're REALLY pissing me off! How many times have people been screaming at these idiots who run into a dungeon, get in shit, and then run past groups of people with an ass rape gang on their tails, only to wipe the people they just ran by.

I really do hope that the community will have more control over play progression like in EQ, maybe just maybe, we can keep the retards at bay by montoring these folks by their reputation. You remember those days? When someone acted like and asshole and ninja looted something? In EQ, that meant deleting your character, you were a Pariah. In WoW you simply go around doing your own thing, mainly because you didn't need anyone else to play the game. I remember being against required grouping many years ago, fought it like the devil, cheered WoW when it didn't need it. Now? I actually see Brad's point. Would help keep the gold farmers numbers at bay too.

I remember being against required grouping many years ago, fought it like the devil, cheered WoW when it didn't need it. Now? I actually see Brad's point. Would help keep the gold farmers numbers at bay too.

And this is why I can't stand WoW, this makes the game feel like its not a MMO, more like its just one big single player game.

Exactly my point!

Went back to Binnuven the Bard last night, got him to lvl 9 (Only 9 you say? Yeah! I have eleventy million alts.....gotta see em all!).

You can start to see the need to group creep in. It's subtle, but it's coming.

The abilities are getting neat. Just got my run song augment. Yep, I can set up varying degree's of speed when I'm running, cool eh? The whole "Song Component" design is a work of genius and gives bards complete control over what effects they need, at what time, and allows them to switch on the fly without having to worry about missed notes or cramped hands.

I've started in on the crafting. Fun stuff! Pretty involved, though I haven't seen anything "outstanding" yet, but then again I'm only just getting started. I'll definately keep you folks posted here.

the vgflames.com site is really picking up speed Binny you should go there and defend this PoS game against people like me :p

This post has some information on class stats.

http://vgflames.com/showthread.php?p=43#post43

the vgflames.com site is really picking up speed Binny you should go there and defend this PoS game against people like me :p

With a site named VGFlames it would merely be a lesson in frustration.

More often then not, the people complaining the loudest are often those that play the game the most. :)

That's where you're wrong I'm afraid. There are areas dedicated to flaming the other areas are discussion about the game. Give it a try before you just judge it based on the name; that's being predujice and I promise you it's not what it sounds like :)

This is true, and you make a good point. It's just that I work in computer sales, so I get enough complaining on my work time LOL. I will take a look, though, that I promise.

To be honest though, the game is making a LOT of leaps and bounds. The usual complaints that are coming from people are that they are purposely stress testing servers, to which I replay that's why they are there hehe, it is a beta test afterall.

Personally, I am pretty comfortable with how the game is running right now. It runs really good on my computer, and the lag in the more populated areas is comparable with the lag that would be found in places such as Ironforge, or the Bazaar back in the day before EQ changed it. We all know that as much as we hate it, until Internet2 becomes readily available to the general public, there's not a whole lot we can do about it.

I can't wait to pick up my CE edition and get the 3 day jump, and get clear of the newbie areas before it becomes overrun.

Don't assume that b/c the name has flames in it the majority of conversation is people flaming it b/c it's not. Most people are sharing their beta experiences, posting screen shots, and talking about gameplay ;)

I on the other hand have different opinions lol.

With a site named VGFlames it would merely be a lesson in frustration.

More often then not, the people complaining the loudest are often those that play the game the most. :)

Hello:

Very sorry for site whoring, but I wanted to explain. I made the new VG site to be similar to my EQ2 site, after the format of that site proved to be very popular. The site is all about free speech, and is only lightly moderated. The problem is,when I set up the EQ2 site, all the good URL names were taken, and "flames" was the best I could come up with. I still wasn't able to get a "forums" name for the VG site, so I decided to stay with the flames name and concept, since it had already proven somewhat successful, and would be familiar, to existing users from the previous site who wanted to come over to the new game site.

The site will include flaming, but also is expected, like the EQ2 site, to include good informative threads, content, and even some posts without cursing. The site is not for everyone, but the EQ2 site did tend to attract and retain some very loyal users, who've continued using the site even after they stopped playing EQ2.

I'm planning on playing Vanguard hardcore, and am really just a big fan.

Thank you :)

if you sign up Nurta referred you!

Hehe, I signed up, but didn't know who to say referred me :p

Actually, from reading what's there, it looks like it's going to be a good spot to go for information. :)

I apologize if this was covered somewhere in the last 100 posts and I missed it, but is there any work being done on the potential problems with all the new dual-core processors and Windows Vista?

I just spent half an hour talking with a couple guys from the geek Squad over at Best Buy while considering a new computer, and neither are impressed with the bugs they have been seeing with the Dual Cores regarding EQ, although WoW apparently is not a problem. I was given the impression that when Vista comes out on the 30th it is going to introduce a whole new group of problems for gaming, initially.

I am basically computer illiterate, which is why I am asking here, seeing how Vanguard is also the big thing coming out according to many here. Is there any problem yet as far as running with dual-core? And, anyone have any ideas as to Vista compatibility?

I would believe, judging from MaximumPC and PC Gamer's take on Vista, that it should be a good thing.

Apparently Games are getting their own controller and their own section of the OS. If it works properly, it should actually help games for Windows.

My personal take? I'll believe it when I see it. ;)

I'm running Vista on a Core 2 Duo. I've never had trouble with it. Didn't on XP either.

I dont think I will ever play LOTRO , no matter how good it is. I refuse to give Turbine money, so they can sell me an expansion and then a month later say they are closing the game.

Well, geez, Chan, tell Ryan that for crying out loud.......he'll listen to you as much as me, heh.

Well, geez, Chan, tell Ryan that for crying out loud.......he'll listen to you as much as me, heh.

Ryan needs to stop screwing around and get in the same game as me ;)

Spent the last day or two messing around with Diplomacy and Crafting, or should I say Diplomacy, Harvesting and Crafting.

Man, you could spend hours doing this stuff! It might be a little hard to wrap your head around at first, but within minutes I was dialoguing with kings and princes, negotiating deals. I was chopping down trees and mining copper, and then I was using those materials as an Artificer to make various work orders for wagon wheels and the like, with the hopes of one day building my own ship.

The various rag doll screens allow for a character to equip multiple stat gear for multiple purposes (adventuring, crafting, harvesting, diplomacy) without ever having to switch outfits (unless you are changing a tool IE: axe to pickaxe or pick up an upgrade). So, I'm out killing bears and I see a tree that can be chopped down. I go up and start chopping and I'm immediately changed into my equipped harvest gear. Then I see a copper node, and right click my pickaxe to equip it, then start harvesting copper.

Once this is done, I go back to my town or city, and using the various types of crafting stations, I start my work. Immediately I'm changed into my crafting gear, complete with tool belt(s) and the tools within. It's pretty damn neat! I'm happy with it.

The Diplomacy side is a card game. Different cards have different values, and offer or take away certain types of "points". There are four types of points (I'm trying to remember): Flattery, Reason, Aggression, and a fourth I can't remember LOL. It's a verbal tete et tete with cards. It's hard to explain here, but needless to say, try it, play with it and before you know it, you'll get to see what I'm talking about. The way the game gets you started gives you LOTS of practice. To top it off, you have Diplomacy gear as well, so as soon as you start, you are changed yet again.

Once done, you go back to slaughtering bears, and boom! Your swords and armor are back and you go about your day.

Definately good stuff imho!

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?loadNews=6970&bhcp=1

I just put 700 bucks into my computer to update it so I am glad to see that the game will be coming out soon however I still want to try it before hand, is open beta up and going yet?

Yeah, fileplanet members can get in or you can buy the preorder for $5.

open beta has been going on for a while I thought?

30 Jan 07, official release date.

Ladies and Gentlemen, start your engines! :D

Ill check on it in about 6 months. Its not ready yet. I hope it makes a big turn around though like Eq2 did under Scott.

The thing that pisses me off is that I signed up for beta the FIRST week that they started takeing applications and I STILL havent gotten a email from them saying I got in, and yet fileplanet gets so many keys and I dont get one? BS. The only reason im pissed though is because fileplanet doesnt havent any more keys to give out so I gotta freaking wait till it comes out to try it.

pre-order?

that's how I think allot of people are in right now no?

I actually uninstalled the PoS this week b/c 22GB was allot of room for a piece of garbage :)

I dont want to preorder, i want to try it before I waste 50 bucks!

Definately can't wait to pick this baby up. I know it's not going to be perfect, but it's helluva lot more fun than what's out there now.

If you can entertain me for 3 hours without my ever having to lift a sword, then you have my attention. Wanna know how? Play the game. ;)

Well i cancelled my pre order. No way Im gonna go threw this again and pay for beta testing. This game is still very far away from being playable.

Performance is still really bad. I can play 20fps on lowest setting and it looks horrible. High Performance (second graphic option from highest performance) looks ok but it chunks way too much. Anytime I get more people or run into a camp my comp will sometimes freeze a sec. I couldnt even imagine raiding on this game.

So i took the cash and finally picked up TSS. Might as well get some levels now.

Im goin to wait for AoC . I might even wait for the xbox version. Nothing beats chillin on the lazy boy playing on a nice size HD TV.

You made a wise choice Drugan.

/nod I agree
this is a piece of crap and I can't believe they are pushing it out the door like it is.
and all the people who are willing to pay to be beta testers ....well I feel sorry for them lol.


EDIT: oy had the wrong use of paid in there

Finally got the video card replaced and logged in to take a look. The world still looks good on the surface but feels dead. The NPCs may as well be department store mannequins. Only reason for me to get the game now is my Station all access, but I'm having enough fun in EQ2 that this unfinished game probably isn't worth it. Unfortunate.

Meh, I'm having fun, all that counts I guess. I'm probably looking more at the glass being half full than half empty. But the game has been able to keep me occupied for three to five hours at a time, with my wanting to come back for more, so that's definately a good thing.

Meh, I'm having fun, all that counts I guess. I'm probably looking more at the glass being half full than half empty. But the game has been able to keep me occupied for three to five hours at a time, with my wanting to come back for more, so that's definately a good thing.

that's b/c you're a glutton for punishment :)

LOL, you're probably right, but so far, so good.

It's not that WoW was a bad game for me, I loved it, but it didn't have that "something" for me. EQ2 is a great game as well, but I found I was looking for something that wasn't there. I was hoping that EQ2 would be more like a trip down memory lane, but with the dev's of EQ2 trying to stay out of EQ's shadow, the resemblance to it's namesake is very small, not a bad thing to some people, but took away the magic for me.

Vanguard has a nice feel to it. My system is by no means a power house, but it's not bad either. I've been getting really quite satisfactory performance from it, and have found lately I've spent more time crafting and diplomacy than I have adventuring. It's not that I don't want to go adventuring, it's just that I get caught up in what I'm doing and keep finding excuses to stay up that extra hour, just to stay on hehe. This is definately a good thing. All aspects are proving fun. To those that are unsure, by all means, hang back, wait for the final bugs on release to get ironed out, but I will promise you this, it will be a good game once the ghosts are exercised out of the machine.

LOL, you're probably right, but so far, so good.

It's not that WoW was a bad game for me, I loved it, but it didn't have that "something" for me. EQ2 is a great game as well, but I found I was looking for something that wasn't there. I was hoping that EQ2 would be more like a trip down memory lane, but with the dev's of EQ2 trying to stay out of EQ's shadow, the resemblance to it's namesake is very small, not a bad thing to some people, but took away the magic for me.



Thats what I wanted from EQ II aswell. Its been hard for me to get into because of that. Also I hate the spell naming system and the debuffing icons. But other than that it seemed ok. Just wasnt enough to pull me away from WoW or EQ for that matter.

That being said id like to try EoF in my spare time, people cant say enough good things about the game.

Rangers are masters of dual blades and bow,so far all pluses