Voted today for the first time since moving to Virginia. Was pretty surprised that I was able to pick from any and all of the parties in the primary regardless of being registered democrat. Was pretty close to voting for Huckabee because if he wins the primary that'll be the easiest race for the Democrat candidate to win. Also had to sign a pledge today stating that if I picked a Republican candidate that regardless of who wins the parties nomination I would vote for them as well. Ha!

wtf, they had you sign a pledge? Thats...odd.

We recently moved to NC and have to wait another...hmmm..month and a half to vote. Blearg.

Yeah I don't get to vote in a primary here in Ohio until early March.

Jawja's passed, and It went to Barak for the Dems, and Huckabee for the Repubs as part of Super Dooper Tuesday....

I don't vote (I know, I know) because I don't want to have to serve on jury duty.

I have heard a few funny ways to get out of serving on a Jury. 1 was when asked if you believe in Capital Punishment was to stand up and start screaming "Hell, Yes! Where's the guilty fu*ker? I want to pull the switch on him, RIGHT NOW!"

The other 1 was to carry in any books written by Sean Hannity, Neal Bortz, or Rush Limbaugh.....

Was pretty close to voting for Huckabee because if he wins the primary that'll be the easiest race for the Democrat candidate to win.This is just wrong on so many levels. I can understand say a prolife republican switching parties to vote for the most prolife Democrat in a primary. But this is just sick, if in fact you did it. Doesn't sound like it though, but I know there are people on both sides who have done it just to sabotage a party's nomination. The media explains these blips away as 'independants' in their exit polls. Any wonder we have such a fucked up political body?

This is just wrong on so many levels. I can understand say a prolife republican switching parties to vote for the most prolife Democrat in a primary. But this is just sick, if in fact you did it. Doesn't sound like it though, but I know there are people on both sides who have done it just to sabotage a party's nomination. The media explains these blips away as 'independants' in their exit polls. Any wonder we have such a fucked up political body?

Maybe because people buy into the slogans? Prolife? Shouldn't we just say anti-abortion and pro death penalty? Most so called pro-lifers are all for death penalties and whole heartedly supported killing Iraqis....didn't they?

I never understood why most people that proclaim to be pro-life believe in the death penalty myself either. Seems very hypocritical to me when the justification to be anti-abortion is the sanctity of life, but it's OK to take for an eye for an eye.

That said, I'm pro-choice and pro death penalty.

I am pro-life in that i dont think abortion should be used for birthcontrol, but rape, detrimental to mother health, and lack of quality of life aka born a vegatable i can deal with.

As far as death penelty i am against it, because its undoable. There is cases of people put to death that are lated found innocent, yes mostly this is due to lack of dna science in the past but still.

Cant say that voting for Hukabee was bad, if you know your candidate is going to win your state why not improve his chances. Our non-constitutionally sanctioned party system is the problem, not how we vote.

I never understood why most people that proclaim to be pro-life believe in the death penalty myself either. Seems very hypocritical to me when the justification to be anti-abortion is the sanctity of life, but it's OK to take for an eye for an eye.

That said, I'm pro-choice and pro death penalty.

Wow, that is one I will have to remember. I have honestly never thought of it that way.

"Seems very hypocritical to me when the justification to be anti-abortion is the sanctity of life, but it's OK to take for an eye for an eye."

How is it hypocritical to oppose the death of an innocent life and believe it's ok for the death penalty to be enforced against someone found guilty of a heinous crime through the court system?

The hypocrisy is in favoring the death of an innocent life and opposing the death of someone guilty of a heinous crime.

"Seems very hypocritical to me when the justification to be anti-abortion is the sanctity of life, but it's OK to take for an eye for an eye."

How is it hypocritical to oppose the death of an innocent life and believe it's ok for the death penalty to be enforced against someone found guilty of a heinous crime through the court system?

The hypocrisy is in favoring the death of an innocent life and opposing the death of someone guilty of a heinous crime.


Did Jesus favor the death penalty? Did he oppose the right of a woman to choose?

Did he think that the victims of Katrina deserved what they got?


Did he think that invading Iraq was wrong?


Does he think that someone who is gay is so corrupted as to need either a conversion or death?

Are the Beattitudes a thing of the past and if so, what changed his mind?

Now what if you knew someone was gonna grow up a murderer? Is it OK to abort that baby?

This thread certainly turned away from what I expected. I thought it was laughable the Virginia Republican Party required all voters to sign a legal document saying if you voted for a Candidate in the Republican Primary you would vote in November for whatever candidate that is chosen ... nevermind how hopelessly impossible it is for them to enforce that.

Now what if you knew someone was gonna grow up a murderer? Is it OK to abort that baby?

This thread certainly turned away from what I expected. I thought it was laughable the Virginia Republican Party required all voters to sign a legal document saying if you voted for a Candidate in the Republican Primary you would vote in November for whatever candidate that is chosen ... nevermind how hopelessly impossible it is for them to enforce that.


That's because they know who you vote for...my latest conspiracy theory!

I don't vote (I know, I know) because I don't want to have to serve on jury duty.

I have heard a few funny ways to get out of serving on a Jury. .


The one time I have been asked to sit on jury duty, I simply made sure the attorneys did not like me, and never had to sit on a case. Like, when asked if I had a problem with a defendant trying to drag out his case, I replied that it was more likely the attorneys doing that, because it padded their fees.

They did not want me for some reason. :rolleyes:

"Seems very hypocritical to me when the justification to be anti-abortion is the sanctity of life, but it's OK to take for an eye for an eye."

How is it hypocritical to oppose the death of an innocent life and believe it's ok for the death penalty to be enforced against someone found guilty of a heinous crime through the court system?

The hypocrisy is in favoring the death of an innocent life and opposing the death of someone guilty of a heinous crime.

haha, this reminds me of a story on swedish news, concerning the Iowa caucus. they interviewed some guy on why he was voting for huckabee, and he said, in an extremly self-gratifying way, that he was for the sanctity of innocent life, then went on to say that "note how i said innocent life" with a retarded smirk on his face, like he just beat out every opposing argument with his retardation. it was rather terrific.

Depends in large part the rationale of holding the positions in the first place.

If "life is sacred" (whatever that term means) then it seem hypocritical to act sacrilegiously and call for the death of another, whatever he's done, instead of -- say -- turning the other cheek, not casting the first stone, what have you. Taleren cited this "sanctity of life" meme, so this seems on target.

Likewise, if a point of view includes the notion that "we are all sinners" and "the wages of sin is death," then abortion is neither here nor there, as no one is innocent. Hell, 10-15% of conceptions end in miscarriage as is. This commonly goes hand-in-hand with the "sanctity of life" crowd Taleren references, so also seems consistent with his point. No hypocrisy involved.

This is the same responses from the same people every 6 months when it comes up. I would not be surprised to see this go 10 pages with no one changing anyones mind .... I will try to post this on 8/13/08 when it comes up again :)

"Did Jesus favor the death penalty? Did he oppose the right of a woman to choose?

Did he think that the victims of Katrina deserved what they got?


Did he think that invading Iraq was wrong?


Does he think that someone who is gay is so corrupted as to need either a conversion or death?

Are the Beattitudes a thing of the past and if so, what changed his mind?"

I'm not particularly religious or christian so wouldn't know.

Jesus probably wouldn't know how to deal with today's issues.
Any stance you take on anything nowdays has people for and against it.

Come out against abortion? You are taking away a woman's right to choose....
Come out for abortion? People will accuse you of wanting to kill babies.

Nothing is as cut and dry as when he was alive. Of course if you think those were the "good old days", you are oppressive against minorities (even though Jesus was Middle Eastern), women, and gays.....

Come out for abortion? People will accuse you of wanting to kill babies.


And they would be, of course, terribly wrong.

And they would be, of course, terribly wrong.

Any more wrong than the people who want to stop abortions?

Well, if you make Abortion illegal, then suicide rates among women and self abortions will rise...
If you keep it legal, then stupid people will keep getting pregnant and getting abortions just cause they can...

Its a lose lose situation either way.

There's always a choice, adoption being 1 of the best, I can think of.
The mother has the child, and lets a couple who cannot have children, raise the baby.
It's as close to a win/win as you can get. The baby lives, and the mother (through her own choice) gets to live her life.

There's always a choice, adoption being 1 of the best, I can think of.
The mother has the child, and lets a couple who cannot have children, raise the baby.
It's as close to a win/win as you can get. The baby lives, and the mother (through her own choice) gets to live her life.

Many women say that once the child is born, giving it up is like giving up part of ones soul.

I cannot say, as I have never been or ever will get pregnant.

I cannot say, as I have never been or ever will get pregnant.

If you did, you'd be rich!

If you did, you'd be rich!
I'm not so sure...a number of men just might kill him in self-defense.

I cannot say, as I have never been or ever will get pregnant.

Wich is why I think anyone with a penis is wholly unqualified to make a judgement on this issue.
This really is something that needs to be left up to the females to decide.

Wich is why I think anyone with a penis is wholly unqualified to make a judgement on this issue.
This really is something that needs to be left up to the females to decide.Which only works if those with vaginas are willing to release the penis crowd from any and all obligations regarding child support and fatherhood.

Not that it's that simple, but you know - we can't expect men to conduct themselves as good fathers if we leave them out of any issues that deal with children. There's an implied obligation, and with that obligation we need to give men a say.

There's always a choice, adoption being 1 of the best, I can think of.
The mother has the child, and lets a couple who cannot have children, raise the baby.
It's as close to a win/win as you can get. The baby lives, and the mother (through her own choice) gets to live her life.

but why set yourself up for 9 months of physical discomfort, and possible, probably probable, psychic scars to please another couple? the 9 months of the pregnancy involving suspension of your career, financial issues (depending on how your country does paid parenting leave legislation), and so forth.

An agrument could easily be made that having an abortion would cause...probably probable, psychic scars.

I am for personal choice by the way...

My X had an abortion when she was younger, and it messed her up mentally for a long time.

Conceivably, there will be pain no matter which choice you make, unless it's the one that involves using condoms (I know, not 100% effective), or not having sex at all (is 100% effective, unless you consider the Immaculate Conception).

Gonna cause physical discomfort? As I understand the abortion proceedure isn't a very pleasant experience.

Going to put your career on hold? So does the abortion recovery process. You aren't doing jumping jacks 3 minutes after having the proceedure.

Financial problems? Probably should have thought of that before you spread your legs, AND I've never heard of a free abortion.

Feels like it's giving away part of your soul? The price you pay for not wanting to take on the responsibilities of a mother after doing all the steps to become one.

And it's not just to please another couple, Wiggo. Remember the baby involved? It gets to have a chance at becoming a great human being.

Sixee, I understand and agree with your statements i really do. but then reality smacks ya up side the head.
1. you will not ever, ever, ever stop humans from having sex!!!!! can you honestly say that in the heat of the "moment" throughout your entire life you said " Wait!!!. i dont have a condom lets wait till i can go to the store tomorrow". if you have kudos to you man. you might have been responsible 99.98% of the time but.....
2. pass law's to hold men responsible! great awesome idea and if we put radar guns in every police car it will scare the populas into such fear of the consequences no one will ever speed again!
3.Lets preach abstinance and sex for procreational purpose's that'll do the trick!, hold on BRB after i ROFL for the next half hour or so.

The truth is it's far to easy and always will be. for men to walk away from the situation and no legisltion or moral indignation will solve the problem. laws do not solve societal issue.
The other truth is that no matter what path the male may choose. responsibility, lying or ignoring it. it's the woman who's left holding the amniotic bag 100% of the time!!
We men have proven time and time again that we simply cannot be trusted when it comes to the issue of the erect penis.
That's why i say it's a woman's issue. 5 min. of pleasure< 9 months to a lifetime.

5 Mins? you aren't doing it right, then.

My only point is that there are other "Choices" when it comes to it. I don't think abortions should be outlawed. I do think it should be the absolute last resort.
And if it's seen that a woman is having repeated abortions, she should be sterilized.

5 Mins? you aren't doing it right, then.

My only point is that there are other "Choices" when it comes to it. I don't think abortions should be outlawed. I do think it should be the absolute last resort.
And if it's seen that a woman is having repeated abortions, she should be sterilized.

I would go one further than this even, if a woman is found to repeatedly have more children just to get more welfare money, she should be steralized too.

My X had an abortion when she was younger, and it messed her up mentally for a long time.

Conceivably, there will be pain no matter which choice you make, unless it's the one that involves using condoms (I know, not 100% effective), or not having sex at all (is 100% effective, unless you consider the Immaculate Conception).

Gonna cause physical discomfort? As I understand the abortion proceedure isn't a very pleasant experience.

Going to put your career on hold? So does the abortion recovery process. You aren't doing jumping jacks 3 minutes after having the proceedure.

Financial problems? Probably should have thought of that before you spread your legs, AND I've never heard of a free abortion.

Feels like it's giving away part of your soul? The price you pay for not wanting to take on the responsibilities of a mother after doing all the steps to become one.

And it's not just to please another couple, Wiggo. Remember the baby involved? It gets to have a chance at becoming a great human being.

wow, no grasp on reality at all, impressive.

I would go one further than this even, if a woman is found to repeatedly have more children just to get more welfare money, she should be steralized too.For added fun, apply the above to cases of corporate welfare!