You know for all the dumbshit things Bush did, I'm starting to wonder if he wasn't dead right with North Korea and Iran. Everybody was clamoring over the chance for Obama to un-fuck Bush's statement about the axis of evil. Then a few months into the Big O's presidency we have new nuclear/missile testing and louder than normal saber rattling from North Korea, and an obviously corrupt election in Iran. Hmmmmmm....

You know for all the dumbshit things Bush did, I'm starting to wonder if he wasn't dead right with North Korea and Iran. Everybody was clamoring over the chance for Obama to un-fuck Bush's statement about the axis of evil. Then a few months into the Big O's presidency we have new nuclear/missile testing and louder than normal saber rattling from North Korea, and an obviously corrupt election in Iran. Hmmmmmm....

Lets put it this way instead....

North Korea was falling apart in the final days of the Bush presidency as all the promises we made to them we did not follow up on after they did their part...

and in regards to Iran?

8 Years of bush and Iran grew more powerful, 6 months of Obama and Iran is falling apart.

Elemak, it's not that us anti-Bush crowd didn't think the Iranian and North Korean regimes weren't naughty - anyone can see that they were and are.

It's just that you don't build global diplomacy on a theory as retarded as 'Evil'. You may as not build any diplomacy at all.

Elemak, some of the Persians I know are the nicest people. One is a UCLA professor of electrical engineering, another rungs a delicious Persian restaurant. The fact of the matter is that it's *not* the Iranians who are bad, but the theocratic government who claim to represent the people while clearly impostors.

Iran's former crown prince is now pushing for Iran to drop its theocratic system in favour of a tolerant, democratic system. In fact, his father, the former Shah, did much to improve the rights of women and adopted many Western reforms. Read up on his blog (http://www.rezapahlavi.org/). After the Iranian Revolution, members of the monarchy fled to Egypt and the United States. President Reagan, who was on excellent personal terms with members of the monarchy, provided them asylum in the United States.

The crown prince, or the pretender if you will, now lives in Maryland. His mother lives in Maryland as well, and his sister when she was alive, who passed away from overdosing on drugs (former model of many acclaimed magazines).

Reza Pahlavi of Iran’s Statement on the Latest Developments in Iran
Saturday, June 13th, 2009

Today the world is witnessing the demonstrated anger of millions of Iranians against a regime that denies their most basic rights, including the right to choose leaders who could improve their abysmal condition.

There is no exit from this condition, so long as one man appropriates onto himself the “power of god” and controls the judiciary, the media, the security forces and, through direct and indirect appointees dictates the only candidates claiming to represent an impoverished and disenfranchised people.

Today I stand united with my fellow Iranians and call for the end of the Islamic Republic, or any other prefix in front of the name of my beloved Iran that indicates theocracy or any other form of disregard for democratic and human rights.

I caution the world that offering any incentives or “carrots” to the theocracy under these circumstances is an affront to the people of Iran. This is not a time for short-sighted, self-defeating tactical games. This is the time for the free world to stand true to its principals and support the people of Iran’s quest for democracy and human rights.

http://www.rezapahlavi.org/media/photos/353_142_Austria.jpg

Iran and North Korea are very unrelated topics. Prior to the US invasion of Iraq, Iran certainly wasn't as powerful or a threat like they are now. Their danger to us is directly related to our meddling in Middle Eastern affairs for the past decade. Their current election issues don't make them any more or less dangerous to us now though.

The country to fear is North Korea. They've been a thorn in our side since before the Korean War and I can't see any reasonable evidence that any of our past 5 presidents are truly to blame. They are like a notorious crime organization, their main exports being piracy and counterfeit currency. That being said China certainly has a lot more say in matters over there than we do, and we have to hope they will do something before this spirals.

Iran and North Korea are very unrelated topics. Prior to the US invasion of Iraq, Iran certainly wasn't as powerful or a threat like they are now. Their danger to us is directly related to our meddling in Middle Eastern affairs for the past century. Their current election issues don't make them any more or less dangerous to us now though.

The country to fear is North Korea. They've been a thorn in our side since before the Korean War and I can't see any reasonable evidence that any of our past 5 presidents are truly to blame. They are like a notorious crime organization, their main exports being piracy and counterfeit currency. That being said China certainly has a lot more say in matters over there than we do, and we have to hope they will do something before this spirals.

fixed that for you.

Well, I wouldn't say the US has meddled in the Mid-East for a century. Only since the mobilisation in WW2. So, say half a century.

Why is "we" only the US?

Halo, the UK also has a long history of meddling in the Middle East. Up to--and including--now. And they also have a track record of selling drugs to little Chinese boys like me since the 1800s, and then making us sign away a "99-year lease" of Hong Kong upon penalty of butt rape.

The funny thing is that the Jews were the terrorists in the 1940s whilst trying to come forward to Israel.

Rybit, don't get me started. You know I could hang you out to dry on British imperialism :P

Besides, we never 'meddled' in the Middle East. We owned the fucking thing!

Well they have been able to work around the selling thing...

Fd4ANWMiaZg

Didn't Britain have some sort of stake in India? I think the French were in Vietnam also.... But I'm just guessing...

Aw, c'mon, I ain't mean no disrespect, but I liked what the British did for Hong Kong. Too bad lease was up!

And Ali G. RESPECT!

bush totally screwed the pooch on NK. Partly because his administration liked to pull a bullshit slogan out: you don't negotiate with evil. But mostly because they hated All Things Clinton™. A treaty that was negotiated during the Clinton administration was ignored and rejected, until the norks decided to break the seals on the storage facility, cart away the spent fuel rods and reprocess them into plutonium for weapons.

You should remember this very very clearly: NK has nuclear weapons because bush didn't care enough to do his job.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0405.kaplan.html

'Didn't Britain have some sort of stake in India? I think the French were in Vietnam also.... But I'm just guessing...'

- WHAT??!?!?!?! *faints* The British conquest of India began from 1757-1765 and from then on Britain gradually brought the entire subcontinent under its control, and ruled it until 1947, almost two centuries!!! Some kind of stake?!?! *slaps Bise*

*slaps Ryb just for fun* I know you have a colonial chip on your shoulder :P Too much opium, IMO!

I would have to agree with others that it didn't take much to see where problem countries might be, but going out on the public stage and labeling them as evil was not productive. Just because you disagree with the policies of another country doesn't make them your enemy, at least not until you start name calling.

Refusing to talk to other countries who disagreed with our policies was just stupid. That's what five year old kids do.

I would have to agree with others that it didn't take much to see where problem countries might be, but going out on the public stage and labeling them as evil was not productive. Just because you disagree with the policies of another country doesn't make them your enemy, at least not until you start name calling.

Refusing to talk to other countries who disagreed with our policies was just stupid. That's what five year old kids do.


What a wonderfully apt description of Dubya's approach to governing.

Well said. Dubya's approach is at best a 5-year old's way of dealing with another 5-year old. We need to bring the adults in.