Have been reading quite a bit about it lately, especially as Ive learned water rights arent something many will give up with there land without increasing the cost by a few million dollars. I ve read the headlines over the past year about shortages in the US from California to the midwest.

The posability of nuclear reactors bieng shut down in Georgia if insuffient rainfall isnt recieved. My own lake that was virtually sucked dry two years ago. With an every growing increase of consumers surpassing the longterm availabilty of water provided and no rainfall.

I found some studies from 93 that predicted much of what is echoed in newer studies released in the last year. I guess its the new global warming issue that isnt discussed much since so many take water for granted. I also found it interesting when tied with world growth estimates of 9 billion by 2050. some studies predicted wars that make oil wars look tame in comparison in as little time as 2025. really doesnt seem that far away.

Anyway thought Id place the links for everyone to get your thoughts.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-01-26-water-usat_x.htm

http://www.ag.arizona.edu/AZWATER/awr/dec99/Feature2.htm

http://whyfiles.org/131fresh_water/2.html

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/P102152.asp

http://www.physorg.com/news112629864.html

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/09/25/overpopulation.overview/index.html

I hate to derail the thread before it even starts, but ironically a bit of the midwest is underwater as we speak.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23694813/

yeah, but they still havent reached there percentage or recovered fully yet. Thou the lake here filled up and almost spilled over last year after 6 months of rain. Still I thought the studies were interesting and as important as saving a polar bear by driving a prius. :)

http://www.drought.unl.edu/dm/monitor.html

" The Southeastern and Mid-Atlantic States The rest of the region remains in a holding pattern this week, with no changes to the drought depiction as widespread long-term (since October 1) deficits (10-20 inches/50-75% of normal) are still entrenched across the region. "

You can have some of my water from here in Ohio. We've been completely inundated by precipitation since at least the beginning of the year. My yard hasn't been dry since late October (seriously, not an exaggeration).

Edit to add: We've had 8.6 Inches of rain in March, and the average is slightly under 3 for the month. We had 8.54 inches of precip in Feb., and the average for that month is 2.2. I'd love to give some of our rain to the SE US.

My drive to work takes me through farmland and wetlands, and last year I watched as huge ponds (one a standard watering hole for a herd of cattle) went completely dry due to lack of rainfall. I also watched at least three farmers plowing under their crops, as they had not been able to provide sufficient moisture in the absence of rain, and the crops were almost a complete loss.

It seems it has been a feast or famine cycle the last ten years, with either flooding or dry, arid conditions. Mother Nature is a fickle old broad. :p

But I agree the water issue is an important one that we will be reading about much more in the coming decade, especially in the west and the southeast.

The southeast has had drought issues for at least a year in most places, and 2 years here in Raleigh, with the last decade being rather dry overall. We've had some quality rainfall recently that has increased the level of Falls Lake, our primary reservoir, but we're still below preferable levels. The local government has, fortunately, been able to back away from elevating water restrictions yet again. Hopefully the rainfall trend continues through spring -- we still need it.

The Isssue is'nt wether there is a lack of water on the planet but rather it's an issue of human consumption and our ability to stock back enough reserve.
thats really the crux of the issue. the thoughtless waste consumptionally spoiled americans cannot relinquish.
Vanity watering is a huge problem. bet we've all seen that moron on a hot sunny day cheerfully watering his lawn at NOON! i wanna stop yell to these people "hey Moron ever heard of evaporation?" corporate properties and business parks get a lot of guilt here to.

we've been dealing with it in florida for longer than most. Water restrictions are so common its considered the norm here. Last time we had good water elvels was when 3 hurricanes dumped gallons on us.

Water issues are a problem for sure. I live a few miles from Lake Michigan and own a cabin a few miles from Lake Superior, both those lakes which are HUGE, have lost TONS of water over the last 10 years regardless of rain water or snow fall. The lake my cabin resides on was down last fall so many feet our chain of lakes was no longer a chain, you couldn't navigate from one lake to the other. That is the first time in my 38 years of existance that has happened up there. My family trys to tell me, hey 10 years ago it was just like this, I just don't think they really pay that much attention because it was much much worse this last year than any other year. However, this Winter has been a record of a year for snow fall, 3rd most snow ever on record, so I am thinking the state wide water tables will be really high again...horray. But a couple summers again with no rain from June to August and it will be all gone. We seem to get mini droughts every summer from June to August..were we used to never get those either. I know its a cycle more than anything...probably a couple hundred years ago same thing happened.

Just to reinforce what a large issue this is, even Stephen Colbert had a guest on discussing it the other night. Maybe the Colbert bump can get more people talking about it.

And the idiots like Vel pointed out with their expensive watering systems that come on midday when the sun is high are the folks that upset me most, when almost every news broadcast is saying to water early morning or after sunset.

Or don't water at all and let the grass die, I hate mowing the lawn so thats what I do. I can go for a month with out mowing some years...lol So many people get caught up in their lawns.

I'm curious where it is you guys think the water goes after it evaporates. Outer space?

I'm curious where it is you guys think the water goes after it evaporates. Outer space?

How long do you figure it takes that evaporated water to replenish the local water tower or aquifers? When there is a shortage of water wasteful practices should be discouraged, and watering lawns during the midday hours is a huge wasteful practice.

And, those who water early morning or even better after sunset also appear to have the lusher lawns in the end, as the water has been able to soak in rather than be evaporated and steaming the lawn.

Even better. when it's early spring and your grass comes out of it's hibernation cycle and springs are plentiful feel free to mow thats when grass is in it's highest growth cycle.
When high summer kicks in and natural rain patterns slow back off the mowing let your grass get a little bit long. the browning is actually part of it's natural cycle and a response to less water. it's simple biology really grass needs water for it's clorophyll to produce sugar to accomodate growth. when water is scarcer it will naturally switch off it's growth mode and save it's water for the root system.
What kills your lawn off is when you've got it cut short allowing the sun to bake off the underlying moister levels and dry out the root system. wich means you have to water to keep it alive.
It's not the lack of human mettling that kills off a lawn it's just the opposite. observe a nearby untended and unmowed lot this year and you'll see this cycle carry out and next spring this unmowed lot will return as green as it is this spring.

How long do you figure it takes that evaporated water to replenish the local water tower or aquifers? When there is a shortage of water wasteful practices should be discouraged, and watering lawns during the midday hours is a huge wasteful practice.
Probably months or years. However, some guy watering his lawn or washing his car a state over is already sending water your way to replace it.

Artificial conservation doesn't change anything in the end. It's a closed system.

If you're running out of drinking water because neighbor Bob wants to wash his Hummer every week, it's time to accelerate conservation practice, not trust Tennessee's lawn manicurists to save the day.

It's not really addressing the problem at all though.

It's like worrying about cash flow and budgeting, when you plain don't make enough money to pay your bills. Outdoor water use that results in evaporation of clean water back into the atmosphere is the very least of our worries, yet gets far too much of our attention.

If you're running out of drinking water because neighbor Bob wants to wash his Hummer every week, it's time to accelerate conservation practice, not trust Tennessee's lawn manicurists to save the day.


Here here! A pox on neighbor Bob!

...Artificial conservation doesn't change anything in the end. It's a closed system.


Not entirely true statement. Florida being surrounded by water, and the climate it is at, the water stays in the air, and secondly its proven fact (will find reports if necessary, that something like 15% last time i checked of Floridas evaporated waters doesn't come back to florida, its dumped into the ocean or north to geogira/alabama. Floridas largest river even dumps into the ocean (after a scrub by the everglades)

It's not really addressing the problem at all though.

It's like worrying about cash flow and budgeting, when you plain don't make enough money to pay your bills. Outdoor water use that results in evaporation of clean water back into the atmosphere is the very least of our worries, yet gets far too much of our attention.
I don't think your example proves your point. It'd be more apt to say that we're worried about going out to the bar or strip joint spending money we don't have, leaving both bills unpaid and ourselves further in debt. So when money does return to the coffers, it's not enough to bring us back into the black.

Obviously, it's most important that we get rain, and plenty of it. But we can't control the rain. We can only control our own behavior, and -- since we don't know how much rain may come our way or when -- we should do so.

But we can't control the rain. We can't, but China can. :mad:

We need to learn how to take advantage of floods and harness the fast incoming of rain effectively. We made trains cross the country to move goods...maybe a time will come soon to find a way to move water around over long distances? Water may become that rare that it will be cost effective to lay pipes to move water long distances...bleh That could be a scarey time. :eek:

The rest of the world has got water conservation figured out. Cars don't get washed. Lawns get watered when in rains and when they die you don't have to mow them. Cisterns are common place. Dishes get washed by hand and 30 dishes arn't used through out the day. Toilets get flushed with grey water and rain water. Baths? WTF is a bath? Pretty soon we will all be taking combat showers ( 2 minutes to wet down and turn water off, lather up, water back on to rinse).

There is plenty of water, just most of it gets pissed away. More belt tightening is on the horizon and if its not washing a car or watering a lawn etc and having peace or having to fight a war to maintain status quo...

...fuck it. Rock garden and succulent plants for the landcsaping sounds damn good to me.

We need to learn how to take advantage of floods and harness the fast incoming of rain effectively. We made trains cross the country to move goods...maybe a time will come soon to find a way to move water around over long distances? Water may become that rare that it will be cost effective to lay pipes to move water long distances...bleh That could be a scarey time. :eek:

You want our fresh water, your going to have to move. Piping fresh water is a bad idea, if the area cannot sustain life with its own water, then so be it. Like Las Vegas or any other town built in the fricken desert.

The Israeli's have shown since the late 40's - early 50's how arid, desert land can be turned into productive farmland, and could be a source of valuable assistance in irrigation methods that we may not have tried yet.

Then again, one would hope there is at least one or two minds in our capitol that have enough intelligence to have already approached the subject.

You want our fresh water, your going to have to move. Piping fresh water is a bad idea, if the area cannot sustain life with its own water, then so be it. Like Las Vegas or any other town built in the fricken desert.

Problem there is that land that needs no water really and can sustain itself needs to be open for produce to be grown on. When you have that need for farm land PLUS a GROWING population I think there will be a lack of space. I could be wrong...but I will be right someday and I bet it will not be too long that it does become a issue. Unless we make it manditory like China that folks only have one baby it will come upon us fast.

But your right about why make a huge city in the middle of the fricken desert? Makes no sense to me either....LOL

I have to say I want to live where I do not have to rely on air conditioning or heat to survive. I have a feeling that energy costs are going to become a HUGE HUGE expense..in my life time. :(

Unless we make it manditory like China that folks only have one baby it will come upon us fast...LOL


Have the pro lifers figure it out.

Ibu...LOL

But your right about why make a huge city in the middle of the fricken desert? Makes no sense to me either....LOLMany of the cities in the desert area of the US started as settlements near water. There's a lot more water available here than most people realize, especially used wisely. What doesn't make sense is plopping down swimming pools all over the place, along with lush green lawns. If you're going to live in the desert, you need to live like you're in the desert.

As well though those desert towns were not specifically designed with growth to millions of people.

...clorophyll ...

Chlorophyll? Sounds more like Bore-ophyll to me!

... Dishes get washed by hand ...

I had to comment on this one here. Dishwashers are more efficient than hand washing for the same number of dishes. A good, newer (read, more efficient) dishwasher is actually a good conservation practice over hand washing or an older dishwasher.

I had to comment on this one here. Dishwashers are more efficient than hand washing for the same number of dishes. A good, newer (read, more efficient) dishwasher is actually a good conservation practice over hand washing or an older dishwasher.

In addition, you can prepare a meal inside of a dishwasher (steaming) using less energy than if you cook on a stove. Vincent Price put out at least one cookbook I believe with meals prepared in a dishwasher. He even prepared a meal on the Johnny Carson show doing this, from main course through dessert.

It does work, having made a fish dinner at the local VFW for a few people, some 20 years back.


Have been trying to find the cookbook, and have not had success so far. It may be that Price was just demonstrating the art, and that was not among the cookbooks he and his wife put together

http://www.partselect.com/JustForFun/Dishwasher-Lasagna.aspx

http://www.salon.com/nov96/salmon961118.html

http://www.langston.com/Fun_People/1999/1999AWS.html

The last link offers several cookbook titles for dishwasher use.

Nice recipes, when they make a dishwasher that can cook Bacon! i'm in!

Man what a derailment from lack of water to BACON THE FRUIT OF THE GOD's and if Bacon is their fruit then SCOTCH IS THEIR NECTAR!!!!!! Sorry bacon does that to me... ask Chenoa, Summul or Kel about my Bacon outburst in GU.

Bacon? ewww
Scotch yes, bacon? /gag

Fild doesn't like pork.....;)

Thanks a lot Nekko, now I'm thirsty........