If Obama's pastor keeps making an ass of himself on national TV, there's no way he'll win the general election leaving Hillary the only choice come the convention.

If Obama's pastor keeps making an ass of himself on national TV, there's no way he'll win the general election leaving Hillary the only choice come the convention.

His speech at the NAACP meeting was excellent... if all you heard were snippets, you may not like it. But his speech in its entirety was anything but devisive.

I need to hear all of Wright's sermons and speeches in their entirety before the next election. Primetime.

You know, so I can get the full context. :rolleyes:

His speech at the NAACP meeting was excellent... if all you heard were snippets, you may not like it. But his speech in its entirety was anything but devisive.

I was in attendance this morning at the NPC for his speech. The content doesn't matter though, its obvious this guy is doing it for the publicity and to get his name out there and every time he does something the story talks about how he's trying to fix the fact that he said... (enter sound of him talking about how the US deserved 9/11)

I was in attendance this morning at the NPC for his speech. The content doesn't matter though, its obvious this guy is doing it for the publicity and to get his name out there and every time he does something the story talks about how he's trying to fix the fact that he said... (enter sound of him talking about how the US deserved 9/11)

He said what many of us believe... that the US was attacked because of our actions.

That is what is meant by "the chickens have come home to roost"

He just got very worked up, and a lot of white people in this country can't take a loud black person saying things they don't understand.

I was watching the speech in Detroit; not the entire thing, but a good portion of it. Wright is very clearly a relic of the 60's civil rights movement and, like Sharpton, he uses provocative speech to make his points. What I saw of the speech was a good speech, for what it was intended to be. But it was given in a provocative manner.

Now today, he was giving another speech at the NPC where he was claiming the journalist's attack was not aimed at him but at the Black Church. He is stuck in a mid-60's protest mentality, wanting to shift the focus to a larger entity rather than deal with personal responsibility. He has become an albatross around Obama's neck, regardless of how strident Obama is in his disavowing of Wright's statements.


While I have some comments to make over Jedd's racist take on the issue of Wright, I will let that go so his supporters do not get too upset with me.


Edit: Watching Hardball, I have heard the term albatross used two or three times so far. I used it before them, tho'. neener neener

While I have some comments to make over Jedd's racist take on the issue of Wright, I will let that go so his supporters do not get too upset with me.

Gotta love how everyone blames the black community and NAACP and Al Sharpton for racism (reverse Racism). Yet they get so offended when the term "White person" is used.

Whats ridiculous is that "White people" always complain about how much "Black people" complain about racism, yet I find it 100 times easier to offend a "White person" (whom I am also) then a "Black person".

Many people, black white and whatever, go around and cant wait to be offended.

I think Hannity and Sharpton spend the majority of their waking hours offended at one thing or another.

Gotta love how everyone blames the black community and NAACP and Al Sharpton for racism (reverse Racism). Yet they get so offended when the term "White person" is used.

Whats ridiculous is that "White people" always complain about how much "Black people" complain about racism, yet I find it 100 times easier to offend a "White person" (whom I am also) then a "Black person".

Your take on Wright's comments was to inject racism, talking about how some white's react to some blacks talking loud. Watch some news, and you will see many blacks reacting to Wright's "loud talk", denouncing him and voicing their outrage at his being so presumptuous to attempt to speak for all black churches, as he was doing.

Your take on Wright's comments was to inject racism, talking about how some white's react to some blacks talking loud. Watch some news, and you will see many blacks reacting to Wright's "loud talk", denouncing him and voicing their outrage at his being so presumptuous to attempt to speak for all black churches, as he was doing.

Most of the non Fox News, black people I hear think he was right on with the facts.

Way to generalize ;P

I've spoken to equal amounts of folks of various race/religion and i find those that think he's right are the same ones who think Sharpton uses peaceful tactics.

Byl's basically right: the guy is a relic of the 60s, and his message is bound up in the themes of that period. A lot of those themes are still pertinent, but realities have changed substantially in the last 40 years. Wright would do well to recognize that. I've heard generally good things about the speech, but those looking to be offended will be offended, and I'm sure cherry-picked quotes will be called on to do their work. In that respect, he's definitely not doing Obama any favors.

It's not cherry-picking when his whole speech was a defense of a false premise.

Lets move away from the cherry picking. Lets put the sermon in context of what he was saying and judge from that.

It is a complicated sermon. Its full of passion and emotion. But the overriding theme is that God is greater than all governments and God does not just bless government, but God damns governments when they do evil.

RvMbeVQj6Lw

That didn't help.

Everything he said in that video was correct... Everytime the US had a challenge in regards to Human rights... It has failed. Very good post L2

Failed?! Heh "For the first time, I'm proud of my country."

Thanks for giving me context. More please.

Oh and this time next week Obama will be saying "Wright who?"

Let me repeat myself: his speech in Detroit was actually a good speech, what I heard of it. It was somewhat rambling, and delivered in a provocative manner, but the content of the speech as I interpreted it was this is who we are and we have much to be proud of, and we should look to be part of the whole rather than being apart from the whole.

His speech this morning at the NPC was a completely different matter, and was designed to elevate the discussion from being about him and his words to being an attack on the Black Church. Chris Mathews on "Hardball" tonight had guests including a black preacher and a black political analyst, who were taking quite the opposite view from Wright, and who made it clear Wright did not speak for Black Churches, but only for himself. They also made it clear that Obama needed to forcefully denounce Wright, whose behavior the past 48 hours was "narcissistic" and designed to escalate rather than heal.

The man is eloquent, and is able to stir emotions among his listeners, but if he is going to stay stuck in a mid-60's mindset his preference for victim and oppressor roles is not going to do much for healing rifts or bringing people closer together.

I shall decline from comment as I believe our opinions are already pre-defined and argued along lines far older than reverend Wright.

LMAO. Sorry, I've been holding it in for a coupla weeks now. Crazy assed preacher being defended on this board.

If this was Bush's preacher man ranting on any topic half as viral as this freak is you'd be demanding his tax exempt status be revoked.

Oh and it's rich having a professed atheist lecture me on what God does and doesn't do and why.

http://instapundit.com/archives2/images/spiritualfruitsm.jpg

If this was Bush's preacher man ranting on any topic half as viral as this freak is you'd be demanding his tax exempt status be revoked.
That isn't a bad point. I'm not sure how much sense it makes for Wright and Hagee to get away with endorsements, while keeping their tax exempt status.

They're basically using their pulpits as PACs.

If this was Bush's preacher man ranting on any topic half as viral as this freak is you'd be demanding his tax exempt status be revoked.

What about McCain's preacher man?

He's not McCain's preacher, but if he's in a pulpit politicing, I want his taxes. I got an interstate that needs another lane.

And for you folks that don't think this has anything to do with Obama, you should take it up with Wright...

Dr. Jones, in his book, God in the Ghetto, argues quite accurately that one’s theology, how I see God, determines one’s anthropology, how I see humans, and one’s anthropology then determines one’s sociology, how I order my society. Ordering society = politics and elections.

Elitist?

I don't think so. Gonna have a hard time making that label stick on someone who isnt.

AeBpPjIlaEw

I have tried to stay out of the whole Jeremiah Wright thing, as I don't think it's germane to the relative merits of the two candidates, and have been pointedly avoiding all these 'explanations' of his statements, etc; but I *did* when reading the latest articles on the election on Der Spiegel this morning (a couple of which I linked in the other thread), find this interview the newspaper conducted with Rev Wright last March, long before the race heated up:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,471221,00.html

He sounds entirely reasonable in this interview although it does cast some light on Obama's 'religious' orientation and motivations.

Regards,
Nydia

SPIEGEL: Do you think he will be President in two years?

Wright: No. Unless Barak pulls off nationally what he was able to pull off locally, and wins the hearts and minds of people who have been perennially anti-black. Racism is so deeply engrained in this country that he could be flawless in terms of his policies. But he's still a black man in this country, which has a sorry history in terms of how it sees African-American males. That’s my 65-year-old, jaded perception of where this country is. I had a pretty favorable view of him until you came along Reverend.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/29/obama.wright/index.html

Maybe Obama is Rip Van Winkle. The 20-year sleep is too similar.

There are 5 or so small bits from three or four sermons.

The entire catalog of Wright speeches from 25 years back are available and on sale, and have been in the hands of bloggers and news networks for a couple months. The church has been recording these and selling them for years.

Yet we still have only 2 or 3 short clips, played over and over and over and over again.

Any attempt to make this seem like this is what was happening on a weekly or regular basis at this church is intellectually dishonest. You would think with a church as large as this one, with thousands of members, SOMEONE would have said.. "Oh, Rev Wright preaches this stuff all the time." Yet nothing.

Until proof is shown that Obama was there, or ever agreed with, or that Wright regularly has this stuff in his sermons... It is just slime.

Here is another unpatriotic former military member spouting off about why 9/11 happened. These guys need to stop, I mean we all know it was because Bin Laden doesn't like our freedoms.


Our White Version of Jeremiah Wright (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rF3NtEWj6ws)

That was sarcastic...Ron Paul ROCKS...if no Obama I'm for Paul!!!!!

Let me repeat myself: his speech in Detroit was actually a good speech, what I heard of it. It was somewhat rambling, and delivered in a provocative manner, but the content of the speech as I interpreted it was this is who we are and we have much to be proud of, and we should look to be part of the whole rather than being apart from the whole.

His speech this morning at the NPC was a completely different matter, and was designed to elevate the discussion from being about him and his words to being an attack on the Black Church. Chris Mathews on "Hardball" tonight had guests including a black preacher and a black political analyst, who were taking quite the opposite view from Wright, and who made it clear Wright did not speak for Black Churches, but only for himself. They also made it clear that Obama needed to forcefully denounce Wright, whose behavior the past 48 hours was "narcissistic" and designed to escalate rather than heal.

The man is eloquent, and is able to stir emotions among his listeners, but if he is going to stay stuck in a mid-60's mindset his preference for victim and oppressor roles is not going to do much for healing rifts or bringing people closer together.

And so it came to pass.

I don't usually watch the mainstream news because, frankly, it sickens me (I'll turn it on to watch the candidates speak and then turn it off), but I read a commentary on the BBC this morning which made me wonder if much is being made of nothing, or whether I'm missing something in the public gestalt debate. It was a discussion of the Wright 'scandal' (although it hardly seems to qualify as such in my book) and the expressed concern that this could be a disaster for the Democratic Party:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7374555.stm

Wright is, like many people who lived before and during the civil rights movement, trapped in the worldview of the generation he was formed in; this is part of basic human nature, and for those who have known only the 80s and beyond, his views seem incomprehensible and counterproductive (although not without a small grain of truth we don't much like to look at). He was clearly hurt and lashing out for being repudiated by his favorite son, and Obama had no choice but to distance himself further from him; but how Obama manages to recover from this incident will be crucial to his success or failure as we come down to the wire.

I hadn't really given much thought to the whole thing until Matt Frei mentioned the following:

The public divorce from the reverend must have been painful, but it was unavoidable.

What should worry Obama supporters far more was the faltering, brittle performance in the press conference afterwards.

He stumbled, he stuttered, he stalled and he groped for the right words while Hillary was at an Indiana gas station doing shots of diesel with truck drivers.

Wielding her imaginary tankard of frothing beer, she talked about cutting the gas tax in front of a chorus of nodding white men with bulging necks.

Hang on - aren't they supposed to be the people who loathe Hillary?

But here too America is evolving.

The economy is hurting, Hillary is feeling your pain, her family name conjures up the comfortable 1990s and Barack is trying to explain why he prayed with a pastor before he prayed against him.

Indiana and North Carolina vote on Tuesday.

Barack Obama has six days left to find his old voice and reboot the magic or he will become the best nominee the Democrats never had.

I think the overblowing of this whole 'scandal' is shameful (and I wonder if Mr. Frei, and I, are inadvertently fanning the flames by continuing to bring it up) but it *would* be a tragedy if this 'lost' Obama the nomination; and furthermore it would (further, in the eyes of some) taint Hillary's 'victory' even though she had nothing to do with these events and leave a bitter taste in the mouths of everyone, as well as, perhaps most ironically, vindicate Wright's worldview. Par-for-the course "Who would you call at 3 am?" ads, and working the system to one's best advantage, are one thing - but this level of trash-rooting guilt-by association character assassination, which we've seen used against Democratic candidates over and over (including the Clintons, and sadly, effectively) for the past two decades (I dearly hope Lee Atwater is burning in hell for Willie Horton and everything else that *he* came up with), is something else entirely and I blame the media (and the effects that giving someone their 15 minutes of fame has on people) more than anyone else in their greedy zeal for sensationalism for this being made into what it is.

Frei's right about one thing though: Hillary is a campaigning machine, who eats breathes and sleeps politics and while she may have publicly expressed dismay at the whole situation (and went so far as to sharply criticise McCain's political machine for running a Reverend Wright ad in North Carolina this week), it's not going to stop her from making hay while the sun shines, as it were. Obama needs to get back in the saddle, get back to selling his miracles, and show the public what he's made of - have that Lincoln-Douglas debate with Hillary, *anything* to move on from this and refocus the debate on his home issues, or *any* other issues for that matter.

If he fails to do this, and/or the media fails to let him, the Democrats will get their candidate, but it will be no victory for either of them.

What do you guys make of this? Kelraz, you're part of the political/media machine - do you see this going away, or is it going to become Obama's albatross?

Regards,
Nydia

Check your private messages pleeb Nydia

Done :)

And you don't know how many times I've had to explain 'pleeb' on my new server in WoW, as well as 'boofing' and other A Ro isms... ;)

Warm regards,
Nydia