....France's philosophy of if we don't object to the terrorists they won't go after us.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=13&u=/ap/20040831/ap_on_re_mi_ea/france_iraq_hostages_040831103853

I want to see how well their diplomatic solutions go.....they need to realize that pleading "This is a crime against all humanity" will not change the terrorist's minds.

I wish France luck in securing the release of their people. I am not optimistic though.

I doubt those guys will make it out with their lives intact.
I hope the end result will be a more realistic french foreign policy with regards to terrorists, terrorism and warfare on foreign soil.

Can only stuff your heads in the sand for so long.

Ibudin

I'm slightly mythed.

Do you think terrorism only came in to existence after 9/11? Or that Islamic terrorism is the only terrorism that exists, or is a threat?
You don't think France has confronted or fought terrorism before?

Or any other country?
Or are you just still bitter about their objections over Iraq?

From the top of my head, I do believe France arrested most of the major players behind the Spanish group ETA recently.

EU assembly President Josep Borrell said in a statement. "Whatever its origin, terrorism has but one goal; to kill freedom of expression and thought.
And they were kidnapped to protest what again? Fairly ironic wouldn't you say?

I know it isn't popular to stick up for the French, but this
France's philosophy of if we don't object to the terrorists they won't go after us is so far off base it isn't funny. Would have been accurate in the mid 80's, but not now.

Try reading this
http://www.brookings.edu/views/articles/fellows/shapiro20030301.htm

The French actually have a very good counter-terrorism system in place. Since most people won't click the link, I'll quote a small piece here.

Nearly 20 years later, on 14 December 1999, an Algerian named Ahmed Ressam was arrested on the U.S.-Canadian border with a trunk full of explosives intended for use in an attack on the Los Angeles International Airport. Ressam grew up in Algeria, resided in Canada and plotted attacks against the United States, but despite having few French connections, French authorities knew who Ressam was and what he intended. French anti-terrorism investigators had been tracking Ressam and his associates in Canada for over three years and had repeatedly warned Canadian authorities of Ressam?s intention to carry out terrorist attacks in North America. After his arrest, French investigators were able to provide the FBI with a complete dossier on Ressam and to aid U.S. authorities in identifying his associates, eventually sending an official to testify at his trial.
Good luck to them with the current hostages in Iraq. It is sad to see some of my countrymen gleeful at the thought of them dying.

Fil

Hmm am I the only one that read the link?

I didn't know that kidnappers = terrorists. Oh true since they are muslim and Iraqis, equation becomes true!

On a side note, because it was brought up in this thread...
I hope the end result will be a more realistic french foreign policy with regards to terrorists, terrorism and warfare on foreign soil.
You so have no clue. France doesn't know what Terrorism is? *chuckles* I guess, in all what was/is done, that why we have a police force specialized in terrorism and high banditism since 1985 (RAID, if you wanna do a search). National and international terrorism struck France for long enough, thank you. Hell I got waken up 2 years ago at 2am because Corsican extremists made exploded a small bomb 500 meters from my house.

Can only stuff your heads in the sand for so long.

Ibudin
If it's not irony...

We have been dealing with it for 20 years. Ever wonder why there is no garbage can opened in paris? Because terrorists used to put bomb in them. We have had vigipirate ( about the same program than your color system) for as long as I can remember ( I.E 15 + years).

I hope they get released althought there isn't much hope. The really sad thing in the story beeing the kidnapper call themself the army of islamic army of iraq but what they ask for has NOTHING To do with iraq issues. Actually supposedly the kidnappers aren't even iraqies anyway, how would basic iraqies people know about french laws, they have other problems than that.

What they're trying to say, Tibbert (et al, see: dumbfucks) is:

pwned.

What im trying to say, France (see socialist government) is:

pussy


Yes they are fucking terrorists that kidnapped the french journalists and Kinu you think that Iraqi people don't have television, radio, computers, or newspapers?

You are an idiot, iraqies have other problems ( like trying to survive when they don't even have electricity half the time, when there are bombs exploding left and right, people shooting at them etc etc) to deal with than bothering about french law, its all political shit.

FYI because you are showing how cluesless you are once again, french governement right now and for the last 10 years has been right wing.

The problem, Tibbert old boy, is that three consecutive people just pwned your point.

Per usual.

Like I said earlier - Shut the fuck up already.

Hmm am I the only one that read the link?

I didn't know that kidnappers = terrorists. Oh true since they are muslim and Iraqis, equation becomes true!
When the kidnappers capture people with the express intent of threatening to take their hostages lives unless certain political actions are taken (repealing a law in this case) then yes, they are terrorists.

No, Anterak, you're the one lacking a clue.
I'm well aware of france's anti-terrorist endeavors.
If you'd actually bothered to read what I'd written you'd discovered:
I hope the end result will be a more realistic french foreign policy with regards to terrorists, terrorism and warfare on foreign soil.
I'm expressing an opinion that states that France's current foreign policies, including those on anti-terrorism and warfare on foreign soil is unrealistic. I'm sure it makes perfect sense to the french, but to the rest of us it just looks like you're turtling and wimping out. This comes from a swede, think about it.

Mukaz, my point was "what does this kidnapping has to do with french terrorist politic?".

Kivorn, care to explain why "France's current foreign policies with regards to terrorists, terrorism and warfare on foreign soil" is unrealistic?
I was presenting why, in my eyes, our "foreign policies with regards to terrorism" (I don't think the other regards are revelant to this topic, but why not make it about all foreign policies) isn't unrealistic, because there are existing tools to prevent and fight terrorism inside and outside France.
I really like to know what you are basing your opinion on. I don't claim to know everything about my country, with objectivity above all, and I'd like to know what in someone front outside eyes this part of France's politics is unrealistic.

This comes from a swede, think about it.True, between you and me, I could give a shit about your nationality. It doesn't matter for me where you are from, it matters how you or anyone builds his/her opinion on. And I hope, that the country you are born in doesn't influence this opinion. (yeah I'm naive, I know)

Edit : expressing my right to ... (http://forums.ayonae.ro/showthread.php?p=70603#post70603)09-01-2004 02:06 PMuseless post


Can we at least know who gives us Reputation points? Geeze...

Mukaz, my point was "what does this kidnapping has to do with french terrorist politic?".
It has everything to do with France's terrorist policies because it is an act of terrorism perpetrated agains French citizens on foreign soil. Its not a simple kidnapping and can't be dealt with as if it were.

If France doesn't have a clear plan for how to deal with terrorists outside thier own borders then they have little hope of developing one in time to save the lives of their citizens in this situation.

I hope those journalists get released unharmed. I also hope the terrorists demands aren't met. Every time a hostage returns home alive without giving in to the demands of the people who perpetrate these crimes its a victory for all of us.

Don't worry about it Anterak. It's just my personal opinion based on what's been made public via the press during the last four years or so on France's foreign relations. I feel that their actions have been passive and we all know they've been trying to slow down anything related to western civilizations taking war to foreign soil (something I partly agree with, partly disagree with). I'm too tired of the whole concept of political bickering to dig up hard facts and construct solid arguments.

Me pointing a finger towards my nationality was just to point out that I'm a citizen of arguably the most passive nation in modern history (except arguably the swiss, but that's a completely different topic and it doesn't matter). Even when Hitler came at us we just went "dont shoot us" and let them plunder us.

If that holds worth or not, that's entirely up to you.