Taino strikes back (http://smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/14/1060588505324.html)

Are you clueless about the fact that the story is about a Brazillian?? (and Brazil is not in Europe in case you didn't know)

And you put it in the wrong section aswell .. it belongs in RL issues and not NAG.

Everything stupid that happens outside these borders is in "Europe," I think. Some of it's Asia, but it's mostly Europe.

I dont often/ever agree with Ytrok on these boards, but for once he's right.

Americans do a lot of stupid shit too, stop generalising everything dumb to be "European" for fuck sake.

Also, as Ytrok mentioned, Brazil isnt in Europe...

Fucking idiot...

Inside America's borders= America
Outside America's borders= Eurotrash.

Get it straight or pay the price!

That hit pretty close to home. You and Ursela having marital problems Zagio? =p

Most of 'em can't pinpoint America on a map.
There's no hope that they are unable to realise the lack of a European Brazil.

Everything stupid that happens outside these borders is in "Europe," I think. Some of it's Asia, but it's mostly Europe.

That is the best thing i have read in a long time. Funny! NOW GFY! Jesus im in a bad mood.

"The man thought the doll was a human being..."

Yup, that sounds like Taino

Friday in my class.. a person who lived in America for 17 years didnt know how many states there were in USA... I do have to say.. alot of americans are retarted. If some of you watch Jay Leno, he does this thing called "Jay walking." He goes around town to see who knows what basic knowledge ie. "Who is the vice-president" "how many states are there in usa." And these people get it wrong. If they dont have a serious mental defect.. they should be shot... You live in this country you should know how many states there are and where Washington D.C.'s general area is on the map. Some people just disgust me and /sigh u get my drift.

I knew how many fucking states there were when I was like, five or something. Don't fucking stereotype Americans because some fucking actors on Jay Leno decide to act retarded so his ratings can go up.

Bash our country all you want. I guess the fact that we are the most powerful, rich, and influential country in the world is due to our inability to think... Morons...

I wouldn't take "Jay walking" as an appropriate evaluation of the American public. It's on camera, it can be edited, not everyone thinks of the right answers on the spot, especially when talking to a celebrity and on camera, and most of all the purpose of that segment is for comedic value and they aren't going to show someone who knows ridiculous amounts of bullshit trivia such as myself, it just isn't funny.

You think the people shown on "Jay walking" are the only people he interviews?

Pwned.

alot of americans are retarted.

/sigh

and your statement proves there are a few RETARDED people outside the U.S.

Friday in my class.. a person who lived in America for 17 years didnt know how many states there were in USA

Problem is (and I'm sure a lot of the euros would agree with this) that a lot of Americans who have never travelled abroad seem to think that the US is the center of the world. There are some people that never leave the state they're born in.

Example: I was on liberty in Turkey a couple of years ago. Before arriving we were given a full briefing on customs and such. One thing that was brought up was that it is illegal to step on or deface the money there. Reason is it bears the image of Ataturk, the founder of modern Turkey. Which also there is a law that you cannot insult his name or deface his image. Knowing full well of this what happens? A couple of sailors get drunk and are arrested for pissing on a statue of Ataturk. Just another example of arrogance by stupid American kids.

People as a whole are stupid, its not just an american thing.

/agree darus

Don't fucking stereotype Americans

if this is directed at me i just want to point out one thing...
I AM AMERICAN!!!

thats really really fucked up

If some of you watch Jay Leno, he does this thing called "Jay walking." He goes around town to see who knows what basic knowledge ie. "Who is the vice-president" "how many states are there in usa." And these people get it wrong. If they dont have a serious mental defect.. they should be shot... You live in this country you should know how many states there are and where Washington D.C.'s general area is on the map.It takes a *lot* of interviewees and a *lot* of questions to prune out the half a dozen stupid ones they use for the show.

They take a smart guy like you, they ask you as many questions as you possibly can, they set up the scenerio so you don't say "let me think for a second" and they never show the video clip 10 seconds later where you say, "Oops, you said Washington D.C, I thought you said Washington State." They take those hundred interviews they did, they take the 10 seconds or so out of each of them where someone flubbed for a second, and they use those to compile those "Jay Walking" shorts.

The questions are presented in a "lightning-round" format to the interviewees, and they're presented to us as though the only thing we ever asked these people is the one question they don't know anything about.

"How many states are there" is the classic "not-trick" trick-question here in the US. We all know the answer is 50, but when you ASK someone "How many states are there" they assume something is up. Do you mean the 48 contiguous states? Am I supposed to say 51 because you're going to tell me some trivial about the District of Columbia? Am I supposed to say 52 or 53 or 54 because of protectorate islands like Guam and Puerto Rico?

While it's true that you can survey High School kids, ask tehm where Central America is, and they'll point ot Kansas, you give me a camera crew a production team and an editing room, and I'll produce a "Jay Walking" clip in any country of the world.

Kara this is flame baiting.. dont do it again

Kara, this confuses the euros.. dont do it again.

Inside America's borders= America

Brasil is in South-AMERICA = inside America's borders= America

Nuff said

False.

America referrs only to the USA. Anything else is an America poser, and is therefore Eurotrash

Nuff said times two.

So....
A brazilian guy kills his parents, you read about it and then you come here insulting me personally aswell as all the euro's for it.
You just made it on top of the "how to make a complete idiot out of yourself on a forum" - charts.
Grats!


By the way... some nifty Bowling for Columbine facts anyone?
Amount of people being killed by guns each year by country.
Germany 327
France 268
England 173
Australia 121
Canada 68
Switzerland 12
US 11427

And you dare comming here talking about violent eurotrash?
Have a nice day :)

*cringe*

Some people really do make US citizens look geographically challenged.

I guess you were trying to be funny, but it really doesn't fit the Taino those of us have come to love or hate on these boards, anyway -- even had the origin been properly placed in Europe instead of Brazil.

/comfort Taino

'Kara, this confuses the euros.. dont do it again. '

- Confuses us?
You're the ones who don't know where the fuck Brazil is.

On a side note..

Brazillian chicks are hot.

amen to that

By the way... some nifty Bowling for Columbine facts anyone?
Amount of people being killed by guns each year by country.
...blah...blah...blah...
US 11427...

And you dare comming here talking about violent eurotrash?
Actually...That is the number of smartass Europeans we deport or send jail because they are such pompous asses.

Oh, and nothing beats Carnival in Rio...TITTIES!

Prezto, either you make a joke or you insult or you state fact. Don't mix all 3 things. Makes you look like an idiot.

/hug Cara, thankee :)

And Brazil women definately are hot. *start bragging about his date next sunday*

I live in England. The other day i bought a chinese and watched as the glamorous girl in her early twenties behind the counter pulled a calculator out of a drawer to add £3.20 and £3.80.
I also met another girl who didn't know that England was in the British Isles.
Both these girls got the same education as i did.

There are dumb people just about everywhere you go, i blame parents.

Its not that easy either.
Parents, circumstances, financial possibilities, intelligence (yes, some people are more intelligent then others.. omg breaking news), habits... and 2938 factors are the reason why some people have a higher IQ then others.
By the way... a person that uses a calculator to calculate 3.80 + 3.20 could stil be a person with an insanely high intelligence.

Intelligence is very very difficult to "measure". Some are great physicians, some are good at school, Einstein for example was very damn bad in school, others are emotionally intelligent like almost noone else but need calculators to count 2+2, some are very logical people and have no emotional competence top even speak to people....
I have yet to see an appropriate IQ test that would just somehow give a real result. My IQ test said 145. Am I now very intelligent? I don't know, because those tests were all about math, words, pictures, 3D imagination...
What about my emotional intelligence? About how I can feel about other people, what about my intelligence in how I treat people, what about my skills how to handle situations, what about my skills in psychological logics and and and?

All the things you get asked in IQ tests are things that you learned in school mostly. But some things oyu don't learn at school. So if I was a good and attentive scholar, I have a high intelligence and if not, I am not intelligent? Thats not true.

The intelligence of a person is a complex mix out of all the knowledge, senses, instincts, logic, ability to learn, emotional acknowledgement.. and I don't believe that it is possible to measure it really. You can feel it if you know someone whether this person has somehting in their brain or not. but measure? I believe a one week long complex test would have to be done to just get a slight idea of the true intelligence of a person.

Just because someone never went to school and therefore never learned to calculate or read or write doesn't mean that this person is not intelligent. Due to our IQ tests they aren't, becuase they can hardly pass any questions. But those people could be way superior in their understatement of the planet, of life, of emotional things.

Germany 327
France 268
England 173
Australia 121
Canada 68
Switzerland 12
US 11427


Just wanted to note, well Im not saying US is any more or less violent then other nations, those statistics are biased, because they're not proportioned to the population of the countries.

Also o a side note, in said countries, how many violent deaths are attributed to NON-Gun related crimes?.

Guns are hardly the only way to kill people, though im sure its no surprise that in a country where guns are widespread, more deaths would occur from guns then say, baseball bats, no?

I have no numbers about "other murders committed with other things then guns".
However, Canada has far more "guns per household" then the US does. How comes they have like 1/50th of the "murders committed by guns" then the US?

Yes I am blindly repeating things from "Bowling for Columbine", yet the murder numbers and guns per household numbers are perfectly prooven facts. And those numbers makes you wonder. And no I am not saying that US people simply are violent by default.

Bowling=staged for the camera by Michael "socialist boy" Moore.

And that makes the facts any less true, really?

www.hardylaw.net/Truth_Ab...wling.html (http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html)

Canada has far more "guns per household" then the US does

I have to laugh at this but don't have the time nor want to find the facts to this statment..I do find it nearly impossible to believe though.


Ibudin

Thanks Marzi. Was looking for that but could not find it.

Canada has far more "guns per household" then the US does

Not to be mocking..but basically what Ibudin said.
Im sure someone will correct you..but I myself must just sigh..

Prezto, either you make a joke or you insult or you state fact. Don't mix all 3 things. Makes you look like an idiot.It was supposed to be a joke as most of my posts are. Misunderstanding the context of a post makes you look like an "idiot".

Cheers.

Are we saying it's impossible for Taino to travel to Brazil and marry a puppet?

Bragging that gun violence occurs more often in your country due to a more wide-spread gun culture is really not going to gain you points here.
And I do believe the population of the US doesn't dwarf some of those countries on that list in the slightest. Perhaps the opposite.

The opposite would imply those countries are larger than the U.S. Don't think so.

Germany is what, 82 million or so?

Perhaps the answer to our gun "issue" is to get involved in a world war and have our guns taken away from us.

America referrs only to the USA. Anything else is an America poser, and is therefore Eurotrash

Yeah right like anyone would wanne pose as America.
Dream on.
Nice one, going back on you're words and saying you meant something completely different.
I really don't know why I react to this flame bait.
Maybe because it is racist.

Bowling=staged for the camera by Michael "socialist boy" Moore.

I'm happy to hear that there is not a bank that gives you a gun when you open a new bank account.
Just one question arises if it was not a documentation why was it allowed in that category at the oscars?

Perhaps the answer to our gun "issue" is to get involved in a world war and have our guns taken away from us.

I am afraid that after we "Europeans" defeat the USA, we would not find any weapons at all.
Then to find out that the reports with which the war was justified where exaggerated to gain public support.
Meaning that where it said "have capability’s to immediately arm themselves and kill" was actually " there is a remote change that they might have weapons and it is not entirely impossible for them to eventually use them, although this is extremely unlikely"

Bragging that gun violence occurs more often in your country due to a more wide-spread gun culture is really not going to gain you points here.
And I do believe the population of the US doesn't dwarf some of those countries on that list in the slightest. Perhaps the opposite.

US has a population aprox 4x higher then the highest populated country on that list.

Hardly Bragging, but comparing "gun related deaths" is stupid, compare MURDERS.

Im not saying we have or have not alot of violence, simply that comparing Gun Related deaths to many countries who outlaw or severely restrict guns, is a pointless biased argument that should resound a very clear "duh" in anyone's head.

I bet All the countries listed have "more deaths by blugeoning device per propotionate capita" than the US.
What does that prove? nothing, just that guns are the prefered way to commit murder in the US.
Afterall, why use a spoon to cut butter?

If you'd like to bash America, why put in the hard work to skew other topics? Just start your own item.

Country Deaths Population

US 11427 290,342,554
Germany 327 82,398,326
France 268 60,180,529
England 173 60,094,648
Australia 121 19,731,984
Canada 68 32,207,113
Switzerland 12 7,318,638


(www.xist.org/global/pop_data2.php) (http://www.xist.org/global/pop_data2.php))

- Ok, yer right about population sizes. I'll give you that.
Now let's take your 'the data is bias because it doesn't take population in to account.' bullsh...argument.

America is what? Three times the size of Germany. Yet America doesn't have three times the death rate. No sir. How much? Roughly 35 times the death rate.
Omgosh Halo, what about teeny weenie Switzerland! I mean gosh, they are only 41 times smaller than America! Of *course* America will look worse.
How's about a thousand times worse?

You're up Mirr.

And once again, blaming your gun culture isn't going to score points. Seen as you'd be CONTRADICTING YOUR ENTIRE AMERICAN VIEW OF YOU GUYS NOT BEING DIPSHITS.

Ahem. I digress.

Yeah right like anyone would wanne pose as America.
Dream on.
Nice one, going back on you're words and saying you meant something completely different.
I really don't know why I react to this flame bait.
Maybe because it is racist.

You're a moron if you think I was being serious. And how the hell is is racist by the way? I do believe that there are a mix of colors and backgrounds inside the United states, no? Same jumble of people outside the US. No way is it Racist, even if it was joking :P

Then again, we already established that you're a moron, so I guess I shouldn't be terribly surprised.


I'm happy to hear that there is not a bank that gives you a gun when you open a new bank account.
Just one question arises if it was not a documentation why was it allowed in that category at the oscars?

Did you even read the link?


And post you're anti war on Iraq bullshit in another post, there's already dozens of existing ones, no need to make another.

Care to Look up the Murder rates Halo?.

Again, "death by guns" is meaningless, really..it should be no shock to anyone that more deaths occur by guns in what you phrase a "gun society"

Im sure if there were a society that really loved poison, we'd see an abnormal amount of death by poison in that district, does that make the society any more or less violent?
Dunno...compare murder rates, cause "death by guns" is stupid.

You're up Mirr.

I'm up for what? Proving that Germany has a lower population than the U.S. again?

Kara, for feigning stupidity: 1
Euros getting upset@this: 0

In case you were wondering how we Americians like to kill each other: www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_01/xl/01tbl2-9.xls (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_01/xl/01tbl2-9.xls)

We are still mostly likely to be murdered in an argument by an acquaintance than any other way: www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_01/xl/01tbl2-12.xls (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_01/xl/01tbl2-12.xls)

You are at a vastly increased chance of being murdered if you're African American: www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_01/xl/01tbl2-4.xls (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_01/xl/01tbl2-4.xls) as you're murdered MORE often than caucasians, yet you only make up 12.9% of the population. www.cia.gov/cia/publicati...os/us.html (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html) Whites kill mostly whites, and blacks kill mostly blacks: www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_01/xl/01tbl2-8.xls (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_01/xl/01tbl2-8.xls) but that's not a shock, because we already covered that we're most likely to be killed by our family and friends (during the summer when it gets hot). Lucky us!

In better news, you non-Americians may stop beating your chests and pointing at us and screaming about how violent we are. You see, we don't give a flying fuck what you think, and we haven't much given a so much as one shit about what Europe thinks of us since 1776. ...and as long as we've got a 10.4 trillion GDP, it doesn't much look like we'll be giving a fuck anytime soon either.

We know where the fuck Brazil is; we just like pulling your oh so sensitive chains. How else could we get a thesis on what sort of emotional maturity makes up someone's real IQ than by having a geography discussion.

Come visit sometime and see our gun collection Fritz, Hans, Sven, Angus, Philippe... We'd love to show you. We'll go gambling, get some drive-through liquor, and then visit some crack-house neighborhoods and see if we can make the FBI statistics page. It'll be a hoot!

Hm.
Didn't figure you for being that fucking ignorant Palimax.
But then, you are American.

'Kara, for feigning stupidity: 1
Euros getting upset@this: 0'

- Feigning?
Riiiiiiiiiight.

Just wanted to note, well Im not saying US is any more or less violent then other nations, those statistics are biased, because they're not proportioned to the population of the countries.


! sure, france has around 60 millions of people. Usa are up to what 300 millions now ? So 5x more?

268 x5 = 1340 =! 11427 or even 8000 something like marz link said( don't remember exact number).

Making blanket statements about an entire country and its population = the win.

I think most of us would agree that Halo is a retard. I wish he would keep his fucking word and stay the fuck off the boards like he promised to, but that's okay, telling the truth was never his strong point.

Am I going to sit here and say that all Britains (I believe?) are retarded?

Nah...

Only idiots would let such a ridiculous piece of trash pass through their lips.

Am I going to sit here and say that all Britains (I believe?) are retarded?

If you won't, then for god's sake, someone MUST!!!

I'd post more but Im involved in a gun battle as I type thisssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

Come visit sometime and see our gun collection Fritz, Hans, Sven, Angus, Philippe... We'd love to show you. We'll go gambling, get some drive-through liquor, and then visit some crack-house neighborhoods and see if we can make the FBI statistics page. It'll be a hoot! Wasn't that what was listed on the ViViV schedule of events? Anyhow, see you in Vegas you idiot.

Didn't figure you for being that fucking ignorant Palimax.Yes, how completely ignorant of me to post links to the Federal Bureau of Investigations website statistics for crime data and provide insight to the data.

I live the sound of gunfire away from one of the worst neighborhoods in the 6th largest city in the US (http://eire.census.gov/popest/data/cities/tables/SUB-EST2002-01.php) (Phoenix, Arizona) (and larger than 8 European countries - but hey, who's counting San Marino, Lichtenstein and Andorra). Maricopa County, which is the metropolitan area which Phoenix sits in weighs in at just over three million people. That puts it ahead of a few more eastern European countries.

Geography lession aside, let me explain to you how to get killed in Phoenix. Leave my house. Go north two hundred yards on 7th street to Van Buren, drive along Van Buren until you see a man at a payphone making eye-contact with each car as he they pass. [The people making eye-contact with cars, you see, are the drug dealers, pimps, and prostitutes. Pull over.] Let them in the car and score some drugs.

I hear gunfire most nights that I care to listen for it. Downtown Phoenix is beautiful, and it's expanding outward, reclaiming the blight, but I'm just inside the "pretty" cicle of Copper Square - beyond my house lays piss-stained couches in alleys where crack is smoked and hookers give $20 blowjobs for their next rock score. It's 21 streets (about 4 city blocks) to the nearest strip-bar that you can get a hand-job at. -- This is where you get killed in Phoenix. Gangs, drugs, and poverty.

If you've ever seen Cops(tm) in Phoenix, they probably busted into a crack house down the block from me.

Yes, how completely ignorant of me to post links to the Federal Bureau of Investigations website statistics for crime data and provide insight to the data.

But, but... they're Americans!

halo i just have one thing to say as a replay to this
Hm.
Didn't figure you for being that fucking ignorant Palimax.
But then, you are American.

How fucking dare you.. how dare you, Just grrr.. that made me sick...

and making a blanket judgement of a grp of people isnt ignorant? :p (sorry couldnt resist halo)

(i wish i had the time to find that sound file of that soccer announcer that yells "GGGGGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL")

when are u people gonna realize that there are fucked up people no matter what country you go to and trying to belittle another country doesnt fix yours (im talking about EVERYONE). When it comes down to it, we are all in this thing called life together. sure blowing off steam and getting into some debates from time to time is fun but lets get real. ill bet there are people walking around during the day or at work that are harboring resentments toward other people on these boards.

Now i want the ignorant Americans and the Euro trash to kiss and make up.

p.s. yes i fully realize my message is somewhat hypocritical considering some of the shit ive posted here in the past but things change and i feel entitled to share my opinion.

Just a side note, California alone has a bigger population than all of Canada :P lol

<blockquote style="padding-left:0.5em; margin-left:0; margin-right:0; margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0; border-left:solid 2">Hardly Bragging, but comparing "gun related deaths" is stupid, compare MURDERS.</blockquote>

I do not have numbers on murders by country, but lets be honest... do you believe seriously that the murder statistic would be any different? Do you think that germans kill thousands of people knifes?
Or swiss kill hundrets with oh lets say, hammers?
What else do you use to kill a person? grenades?

It may be that the statistic for murder differs slightly from "murders committed by guns", but it will never be a difference of more then lets say 5% max.

And by the way... All I did was opening the question about why the US has so many murders compared to other countries, and I did so as reaction to Kara's stupid post to begin with.

I do not have numbers on murders by country, but lets be honest... do you believe seriously that the murder statistic would be any different? Do you think that germans kill thousands of people knifes?
Or swiss kill hundrets with oh lets say, hammers?
What else do you use to kill a person? grenades?

It may be that the statistic for murder differs slightly from "murders committed by guns", but it will never be a difference of more then lets say 5% max.Well, in 2001, in the US, only 63% of murders were by firearm, leaving the remaining 36% for knives, hammers and grenades...

In fact, we managed to kill 13.1% of all our murder victims by knife, shank, scisors, shears, or other cutting instruments.

As far as Great Britain goes (they were easy to look up), those 1.2/100,000 people murdered sure are getting killed with SOMETHING. Big wooden planks with nails sticking out of them, I imagine...

Yes, but do you seirously think that the statistics will be in any way different when you look at...

1. Murders by firearms by country
2. Murders by country
?

So you say 36% of all murders have been done without firearms. That's very possible. But do you think that this percentage will be different when you look at other countries?
Means like.. in Canada you have 68 murders by fireguns and... 2386 murders by other things? I don't think so.
I believe the relations between murders by fireguns and murders by other "things" will be more or less the same in all other countries aswell. At least not different enough to really make the initial statement untrue... that the US people murder way more of their own people then other countries.

that the US people murder way more of their own people then other countries.
I would say Western countries ... cause, well, if you look at some countries they kill more in a day then others do in a year.

Aye, I agree with ya :)

After looking it up on google..

I looked at murder rates by nation and by state in the US..

The average US state has a bout 3 murders per 100,000.. thats the mean.
lilt-vetri.lilt.ilstu.edu...table5.htm (http://lilt-vetri.lilt.ilstu.edu/gmklass/pos138/datadisplay/subpage/table5.htm)

Now when taken as a whole... thats not that bad and about on par with the rest of the world..

And interesting article I found was..
members.aol.com/gunbancon...urder.html (http://members.aol.com/gunbancon/Frames/US_murder.html)

America is a fairly new nation.. with people from all over the world.. People have gone through massive societal changes in areas of living and social status. People are learning to live together.. Unlike many european countries whos hallmark is stability

If you look at the rates from the states I listed.. youll notice that the rate is naturally higher in areas of high population density.. but that rate is on the decline..
The areas where the rate is on the rise are areas that have historically been low population, but have recently seen a mass influx of new people.

Ive read a lot of other interesting statistics.. such as the robbery, burgelry and rape rate in London is higher than that of NYC..

thegreenman.net.au/mt/arc...00055.html (http://thegreenman.net.au/mt/archives/000055.html)
I

<blockquote style="padding-left:0.5em; margin-left:0; margin-right:0; margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0; border-left:solid 2">America is a fairly new nation.. with people from all over the world.. People have gone through massive societal changes in areas of living and social status. People are learning to live together.. Unlike many european countries whos hallmark is stability</blockquote>
Yep, thats a hard thing to do after those years of killing millions of native indians so you can rule the continent, the whole slavery and racism thingie for a few hundret years. I understand that you keep killing eachother, np.
Especially since its all not over yet. So many bad people are around you, and so many threats and dangers. Its a must that you can shoot everyone that is on your ground. No matter why.

Just strange why the canadians don't have all that shit, they have the same roots as you...
Oh wait, they don't count anyways.

It's just beyond hillarious that you go for my 'blanket statement' like little school girls crying, yet completely ignore Palimax's:
'You see, we don't give a flying fuck what you think, and we haven't much given a so much as one shit about what Europe thinks of us since 1776. ...and as long as we've got a 10.4 trillion GDP, it doesn't much look like we'll be giving a fuck anytime soon either,' speach.

Completely classic. Next stop - Contradiction Street, change at Hypocrit Lane.

If your right about it being down to 3 LL, then that puts us slightly higher, but on part with many european nations.

that last table was really informative, going to show what I said,

Notice the really low firearms % in some countries..then the disproportionate number of "non-gun" deaths in same country.


All that shows is in america if we're gonna kill someone, we prefer to use the best tools for the job.

'All that shows is in america if we're gonna kill someone, we prefer to use the best tools for the job. '

- Do you actually listen to yourself speak?

Waaazuuuuuppp
You know.. watching the game, having a bud, blowing some heads off
Yeah yeah....

'All that shows is in america if we're gonna kill someone, we prefer to use the best tools for the job. '

- Do you actually listen to yourself speak?

Care to point out the fallacy in the statement?, really, whats so much worse about shooting someone as opposed to strangling them drowning them, or hitting them with a hammer.

Do you listen to yourself? cause thats you/tainos argument, that we're "worse" cause when americans commit murder, we do it in the most efficent way possible, most of the time.

Assuming LL's statistics are right, you dont have your "we are 4/10/80x/whatever more violent" dogma to hide behind, the original statement being about gun deaths.

Which as I already showed is pointless, so what do you have now?
All you have is a statistic that shows how americans prefer to kill, as opposed to how europeans prefer to kill.

Should I point out theres a higher ratio of more "barbaric" murders in Europe according to that?

You just have a worthless argument , and the counter is equally stupid.

Summation? Regardless of culture, we can assume that anywhere in the world there is a high density of population, the statistics for killings will rise.

Summary II: Feelings of inadequacy about one's own country create hatred of other countries.

I can't really think of another reason. The people here who preach against our way of life spew as much crap as anyone else.

Country statistics Netherlands:

1,7 Murders per 100.000 people.
In Amsterdam 7,9 murders on every 100.000 people.

Washington DC 64,1 murders on every 100.000 people.

So yes ... the higher the density the more killing.


(Numbers are from 1994-1996, they were not used to show there are more murders in the US, they were used to show there are more murders in high density regions)

on Edit: High denisty regions attrackt criminals due to the lack of social controle (neighbours caring for their neighbours) so it is more then logical that you find a lot more crime/criminals and therefor murders in high density regions. It also is very clear that the US has a lot of high density regions and that would really explain why there are so many murders in US cities opposed to lower density European cities. The fact that they kill using guns is pretty obvious since they are free to obtain. In Europe guns are not allowed and that is why the Europeans often use other weapons to kill people.

/sigh. so much hate. when i get back i may be forced to do something drastic :p

This is the most recent data I could find on the subject.
No comments just a link.

World Incarceration & Murder Rates (http://christianparty.net/incarceration.htm)

So you say 36% of all murders have been done without firearms. That's very possible. But do you think that this percentage will be different when you look at other countries?Possible? Possible? Of course it's possible. I keep providing the stats over and over, and you say it's POSSIBLE that 36% of all US murders happen by means other than firearm...

I've looked at the stats for other countries, and they kill each other pretty much the same way we do, just not as frequently. I honestly don't know how many times you drum-bangers can say "America is more violent than the rest of us civilized nations." Great, we all agree. We get it. We're savages. ...but don't pretend your shit don't stink either.It's just beyond hillarious that you go for my 'blanket statement' like little school girls crying, yet completely ignore Palimax's:
'You see, we don't give a flying fuck what you think, and we haven't much given a so much as one shit about what Europe thinks of us since 1776. ...and as long as we've got a 10.4 trillion GDP, it doesn't much look like we'll be giving a fuck anytime soon either,' speach.And Halo, it becomes clearer and clearer to me why everyone thinks you're a massive retard. I added that to a very long post to add a nice one-punch closer to an otherwise serious thread -- but to an extent, it's true.

We, the citizens of the United States of America do not give a flying fuck what you think of our murder rate. If we want to do something about it, we will. In the meantime, please continue buying our exports and selling us your limited natural resources.

No, seriously. WE DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU THINK OF OUR VIOLENT CRIME RATES. Not one American has ever had a sleepless night worrying about what one of you thought about our terrible terrible country. Never! It's never happened! This thread might be the all-time high point of "care" about what any of you think about our violent crime rate.

The only people who publish comparisson stats are anti-gun kooks, and even they can't be trusted to include countries like Canada where gun ownership is higher than here.

What ELSE is hosted on the site.

So along with the World Incareration & Murder Rates we have such nifty topics as:

-> How jews destroyed American children.
-> Understand The Talmud Subverts American Family Law.
-> Blacklist the feminists.

Those statistics may be 100% accurate, but I'd rather get my information from a site that has doesn't have a racist/religious agenda to promote.

Not one American has ever had a sleepless night worrying about what one of you thought about our terrible terrible country.
When did you become the spokesman of all Americans?

Because I know some who actually do care about what the rest of the world thinks of them.

ViBeSJoKeR - You're kidding right? We don't give a shit. We just don't. No sleepless nights. No misty eyed glances. No gut-wrenching anguish. None. Zippo. Zilch.

We care that we have problems, but we absolutely don't care that YOU think we have problems.

And spokesperson for everyone? No, of course not. Three hundred million of us, and I'm sure one guy cries himself to bed every night, "Oh, nos! The europeans find us too violent. How ever will I face my friends at the United Nations..."

But the other 299,999,999 of us? We're sleepin' sound.

Seriously,this topic is beyond pathetic...

I could go into a long winded post about bigotry and so on.Though after reading this topic i have come to the conclusion that certain individuals will always be ready to incite hatred,cause disputes and generally try to make people feel bad.
Sadly the world is full of these people,it`s just a fact of life i guess :( Also stereotyping is whole nation (regardless of which nation it is) is plain wrong.People are individuals and in my experiance,most of them do not like to be stamped with some label that declares them as having _001 point of view.
Also,i know plently of people from the US who would tell you to shut the fuck up and stop speaking for them Palimax.

/peace out

Also,i know plently of people from the US who would tell you to shut the fuck up and stop speaking for them Palimax.Funny. All the europeans keep saying that, but all the US citizens keep telling you that we don't give a rat's ass.

Palimax - You're doing it now and you don't even know it. 'Omgosh I don't generalize, and it was just a joke! Anyway, I can tell you that all americans....' Think before you hit post. Hell, there's a preview button *for* a reason.

Now I'm going to hang myself in light that you think I'm a retard.
No. Seriously.

can i settle this once an for all?

you all deserve each other. have a nice day :D

Well fucking duh...

It *is* a generalization; and generally speaking, we don't give a fuck what Europe as a whole thinks of us. I am not speaking in absolutes, and anyone who thinks I'm speaking in absolues is an... ..absolute idiot.

Do you act like that in the real world? Your boss comes in and says, "Uh oh, we made a mistake on that last project and everyone is pretty mad at us" and you reply, "Everyone? Did you ask 'everyone' what they meant? I'm sure there's one guy who isn't mad at us."

Question: Are there people in this country who spend sleepless nights worrying about what the left half of Eurasia thinks about us?
Answer: Yeah, a few apologists and crybabies.

Question: Is the majority of this country firmly planted in believing that we're the greatest country on the planet and couldn't possibly give a fuck if you tell us we're not because our violent crime rate is too high?
Answer: Abso-fucking-lutely.

We didn't give a damn that europe didn't like us when we started this country, and we don't give a damn now.

The ironic part about this, is that while I couldn't possibly care if you love or hate this country, it drives me crazy that you're too dumb to figure out that we don't care.

Right.
So while you're speaking on behalf of those who don't care, you're going under the guise that it represents everyone?
Palimax, I'll do you a favour. I'll expose you to the cure of the madness I'm aparantly driving you to in my stuper.
Stop saying 'I don't fucking generalize! But we Americans don't care....'
Jesus, Mary, and the other one.
Also, you have abso-fucking-lutely no clue whether or not the majority of your country care about their reputation in regards to gun violence.
It's a random bullshit assumption you pulled out of your ars... err head.
Though I am actually suprised you don't seem to care.
Why wouldn't you? Your country has an extrordinary violent gun culture. If you don't care.. you're.. what? Proud? As Darus likes to put it, they are 'the best tools for the job.'

Oh christ. What if you're proud.
Heck, wouldn't suprise me I guess.

Perhaps we could make it more specific: We certainly don't care what YOU think.

To try to address several points at once..

Ytroks posting of figures opens the door on a subject that needs will hopefully shed some light on the what the reality is.

The figures he posted from Washington DC during the years of around 1994-96 are an abberation. Brought on by the culmination of several factors.
Drugs.. That was the HEIGHT of the crack cocaine epidemic that ripped apart our inner cities for a period and is finally subsiding now..
It is justifiably called an epidemic because it caused as much damage as any plauge or disease that ever swept through.
Crack kills people.. it ruins lives.. it is highly addictive.. it causes people to commit acts that would horrify most people. And the more we fight.. the more valuable a commodity it becomes.. the more value it has.. the more competition there is, and with that competition comes violence..

But the question becomes.. why is Crack, Heroin, Dust, ect ect such a problem..

This nation went through MASSIVE changes in the 1960s.. massive.. on a grand scale..
Martin Luther King saved the soul of America with his civil rights revolution. He changed the way Americans, black and white.. thought.. well.. most of us....
We are still moving.. changing.. the decay of Inner cities is a terrible side effect.. We, now, are paying for the sins of our grandfathers.. but it is a debt we are paying.. and getting better at all the time..
From the Jim Crow era of Racism.. America has changed 180 degrees into probably one of the least racist nations on the planet... in a VERY short time.

Ghettos are a product of a few things.. and create hopelessness and despair.. which make a breeding ground for drugs and violence..
Failed, but well meaning policy to correct mistakes created these..

Canada was mentioned.. why? Canada is our neighbor.. but NOTHING like us. Canada has a Low population and a HUGE amount of open land.. it is also pretty racially homogenous, with very little social changes or migration.

Stop saying 'I don't fucking generalize! But we Americans don't care....'Dear Haloface, please read the message above where I directly state in big underlined letters that I was generalizing, and you'd be a bigger idiot than even I think you are if you think every word carries it's literal meaning at all time.Also, you have abso-fucking-lutely no clue whether or not the majority of your country care about their reputation in regards to gun violence.Other than living here, talking to my friends and co-workers about it, hearing it in the news, and knowing a little something about the place I live in and the people I live with, yeah, I have no fucking clue.Your country has an extrordinary violent gun culture. If you don't care.. you're.. what? Proud?Christ you're dense. Look. I've never suggested for a minute that we don't have a problem. America has a problem with violent crime, mostly as a result of drugs, poverty, and hoarde of socio-economic problems that it'd take a thousand cultural anthropologists to unravel. What I'm telling you is that we don't give a shit about YOU thinking we have a problem.

Us caring about a problem is not the same as us caring about you thinking we have a problem.

Should we stop killing each other? Yeah, duh. Should we stop killing each other because it's bothing the Sweeds or the Brits? No.

By the way, when was the last time you visited the United States? You seem to have a lot of insight about us.

'Perhaps we could make it more specific: We certainly don't care what YOU think.'

- I just got pwneindnezzz!!11

Most Americans speak english.

Now go ahead and lynch me for being the spokesperson of my country *hands you a rope*

Is the US a violent country? It is a matter of perspective, really. Lets compare per capita murder rates in the US since 1930 with murder rates (for the same time period) in any one of these countries: Colombia, Ruwanda, Iraq, Cambodia, the former Solviet Union, Germany, Japan, Uganda, Mexico, and (just for the hell of it) China.

Granted, those countries listed are not touting themselves as "bastions of Freedom and Democracy". All of a sudden, we don't seem quite so violent. However, when compared to say... Monaco, I bet we'd seem downright homicidal. Still, it is private citizens who are doing most of the killing here, not the government or bands of rebels.

Oh lord, guess where the America haters are gonna take THAT tangent.....

we all should nuke our frigging pseudo enemy countries so we would stop that pathetic humankind parody

let s get a nuclear winter, i wish you all would like that far deep in your penis

let s get a nuclear winter, i wish you all would like that far deep in your penis I am at an absolute loss for words.

Erm....

Unless he was correlating snow with semen, or something, I have no fucking idea what he was saying either.

--Cen

Why even bother trying to interpret him? We all know he's an idiot.

Mucho Agreedo.

So...Balog...you getting the picture why I don't bother wasting time reading what Halo and the others say? 8/

let s get a nuclear winter, i wish you all would like that far deep in your penis

Ok, now why did he have to go and say something like that? I was all into the America is better then the world thread and this person says soemthing like that! Stick a what in my what? I cant stop laughing. what a way to start a day.

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So you say 36% of all murders have been done without firearms. That's very possible. But do you think that this percentage will be different when you look at other countries?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Possible? Possible? Of course it's possible. I keep providing the stats over and over, and you say it's POSSIBLE that 36% of all US murders happen by means other than firearm...

I've looked at the stats for other countries, and they kill each other pretty much the same way we do, just not as frequently. I honestly don't know how many times you drum-bangers can say "America is more violent than the rest of us civilized nations." Great, we all agree. We get it. We're savages. ...but don't pretend your shit don't stink either.

In one sentence.. what is your fucking point here Palimax? Other then mindlessly telling me that I am a fucking idiot? What is your point sir? I said "yes you could be right about your numbers" because I don't know, but to me personally it seems that yeah, that could be. I agree with you. So what is your fucking point? Did you just not get laid in a few or so?
It still didn't change the fact that you have way many more murders then the rest of the western countries. You also agreed there. So what is your fucking point!?

Martin Luther King saved the soul of America with his civil rights revolution. He changed the way Americans, black and white.. thought.. well.. most of us....
We are still moving.. changing..
You know what makes me sick? Yeah you are changing. That's correct, you are moving more and more towards a police state that rules the world. You don't see how Bush is pushing the whole world into a world war, how Bush is abusing you all for his own needs. Its all about Oil and Weapons. He again asked for what? 78 billion? For arms and stuff? WHY?????? Noone on this planet can in any way resist your army. You do not need more fucking weapons! Bush is keeping you afraid. You are full of fear ofd all those virtual treats that Bush keeps in your mind. As long as you are afraidf, you will grant everything.
But did you ever think about the fact that Bush is actively making money with 2 things: Weapons and Oil. He is a big big businessowner in those 2 things.
And you are fucking bombing countries with huge oil reserves all the time. Doesn't that make you go huummm?

Anyways, that wasn't my point. My point is...
"We are still changing" Well, if you wouldn't be an ignorant totalist, you would know that WE are changing too. We are changing just as very much as you are. Europe is making huge changes all the time. But you don't know it, you don't give a shit (see Palimax) and therefore you believe that you are right. But you're not. We all are changing, at a very damn fast pace. But only the US are killing eachother like that, and I still ask myself why.
I don't accuse you of being stupid idiots. I am asking myself, all serious.. why are you (as a country) doing this? You don't have that insanely more guns then other countries, you don't have other laws.. why are you (as a coun try) killing yourself like mad? Its not because you are changing. Other countries are changing just as fast. You're not more poor then others, you don't have more cultures or "people from other countries" then others do. All That's not a valid argument.

I don't accuse you of being stupid idiots.

Not in the last 10 minutes anyway.

It's like you need an enemy in your life and you've decided it's America.

It's like you need an enemy in your life and you've decided it's America.

Speculation

Perhaps you picked up on the words "it's like."

If I saw him occasionally ranting against, say, The Netherlands, I might think differently.

Does anyone (anyone at all) have any idea how Taino managed to take Martin Luther King Jr. changing the social and moral landscape of America and segue into Bush making money for bombs and oil?

Taino, you asked what my point was. My point was (and is) that when presented with the simplist thing, even cold hard facts, numbers, charts, diagrams, that you still only shrug your shoulders and mumble that, gee, it's "possible."

Open the CIA world factbook. Visit the Uniform Crime Reports database at the FBI. It can't be that hard - I make nice underlined links for you. Use your favorite search engine, and pick a responsible source to back up your bullshit. I don't give you population sizes, violent crime rates, ethnic breakdowns and other stats without checking a credible source. If you're going to argue them, try backing them up with something, anything, other than some sort of George Bush bombs children for money rhetoric.
I don't accuse you of being stupid idiots. I am asking myself, all serious.. why are you (as a country) doing this? You don't have that insanely more guns then other countries, you don't have other laws.. why are you (as a coun try) killing yourself like mad? Its not because you are changing. Other countries are changing just as fast. You're not more poor then others, you don't have more cultures or "people from other countries" then others do. All That's not a valid argument.A serious question? Fine. A serious answer you'll get.

America, as a country, was built on a culture of slave ownership, violence, and agression. We spent the better part of the last 200 years killing those people in our way. We spent the better part of the 200 years before that enslaving people in our way.

You can't change mindsets like that on a timetable that most people understand. It takes generations. It takes being raised by a parent that didn't actually lynch black folk for being in the wrong part of town before you can escape it.

Before 1964, The United States of America was basicly a big South Africa, only without the diamond mines. :(

it took us a while but i think we are begining to break the chains







































and we can thank our english upbringing for our first 100 or so years of ignorance and murderous enslaving uptight arrogant attitudes. we didnt fall far from our ancestoral tree but thankfully a few of our founding fathers made it possible to change all that.

keep thinking like the peasant you are taino.

With a person who claims President Bush is starting a world war to make money? For those who's feet are more firmly in touch with planet Earth consider that America, while more violent than other "first-world" countries, is not an especially a dangerous place to live. There are dangerous parts of America (e.g. inner city ghetto's), but by and large it's not dangerous. I don't live in fear trembling from the moment I enter my car in the morning to the time I return safely home at night. I don't pull down the metal shutters on the windows and activate the home-defense systems once my family is safely tucked in. Hell, I don't even lock my doors at night. Why? Because I like to live dangerously? No, because there is ZERO, NONE, ZILCH, nada crime where I live. If you want to write about the dangerous parts see the relevant posts from Palimax and Lleauric (sp?) first. And except for the parts about locking my doors I expect most Americans live in a similar manner. And if someone abused my rather open door policy by taking a midnight stroll through my living room odds are rather good they would not see the next day. And guess what? I wouldn't go to jail for it.

As for Pres. Bush starting a world war, well, reality is America had been at war for about a decade (for reference go look up all the bombings of American interests around the world similar to the USS Cole - it wasn't just a ship). It was a rather low-intensity war, but one driven by the dictates of terrorist groups who represent hard-line Islamic fundamentalism as opposed to nations. Now it's rather hard for a country to fight terrorists directly. It's not easy to strike directly at Al-Queida(sp? again). Point to Al-Q on a map. However, it's not THAT hard to make it harder for terrorists to find a place to live safely and THAT is part of what the US is doing right now.

Pres. Bush, unlike Pres. Clinton, decided we didn't need to take it anymore from pissant nutcases with a chip on their shoulders. Pres. Bush isn't as smart as all of the leftish-intelligentsia of the U.S. and Europe so he doesn't try to understand why those people hurt us. He just decided that it was wrong and acted accordingly. He didn't waste any time trying to decide how and why it was our fault we lost the WTC in NY, he instead implemented a strategy that would try to change the culture of a part of the world that was deemed dangerous to us. He concluded that it was "us or them" situation and took the highest road that he could. We could have much more easily levelled Iraq than than the method we used. We could have just levelled Iraq and pulled out. But, oddly enough for that damned crazy cowboy he decided to try and help the people in Iraq WHILE trying to make the world safer for U.S. citizens (and, incidentally if this huge experiment succeeds the rest of the world).

But one thing is clear to those with open minds: the battle, for now, has moved to the Middle East, which is where it belongs considering who intiated it. Our soldiers, frankly, are targets. It's not nice to be a target, nor is it an easy thing to send one's fellow citizens out to a dangerous place to be a target. But for the entirety of the U.S., it's a lot better for it's citizens to have the battles conducted over there than it is here. That, ultimately, is what soldiers sign up for, promises from recruiters notwithstanding. And our soldiers are a hell of a lot better prepared to defend themselves than John & Jane Doe on the streets of our cities. Plus, if the target moves to some other nation (e.g. Syria, Iran, or Saudi Arabia) it's kinda nice to have a large force already there.

There's a war happening alright, but it isn't about oil (unless of course we're referring to France or Russia). It's about control of the Middle East. The combatants are hard line Islamic fundamentalists and, for the moment, the U.S. and Great Britain (with an assist from Australia).

Ironically enough...the Swedish Foreign Minister just got stabbed. How's that for timing.

If someone would have used a gun, she would be dead. what I mean is, they would have used a gun if she were here in the US.

Stabbed! (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030910/ap_on_re_eu/sweden_politician_stabbed)

Let me say just a few things about all this. My perception is that the world is a violent place. Taino may claim his part of Europe is less violent than , say the US, and he might be right. But go just a few miles south or east and that is no longer true. Violence is rife in places like Kosovo, Bosnia, Serbia, Macedonia. You have terrorists setting off bombs in England, Northern Ireland, Spain and France. You have a burgeoning (reported) murder rate in places like Russia and Ukraine.

I may be wrong, but does not Switzerland have a requirement for able bodied adult males to serve, or at least be available for a national militia? Does that not mean that access to firearms is not that difficult and may in fact be a requirement? If so, how can the argument that firearms result in the violence be completely true if Switzerland has a lower murder rate than countries where firearms are verboten?

If the US were to outlaw private ownership of firearms, would that reduce the murder rate? Or increase it as new sources of illegal and untaxed revenue become available for gangs and criminals (would you like an AK47 with your order of cocaine?). When something that is perceived as desirable is made illegal, it generally results in a violent underground industry. It happened with alcohol, it is happening with narcotics. Since being able to protect oneself is a desire ingrained into the American psyche, we would surely provide a new lucrative market for arms dealers with no controls whatsoever.

Since some posters perceive the US government as corrupt and evil, why on earth would you expect us to disarm ourselves, thereby putting ourselves completely at the mercy of the police state you say we are becoming?

Here is my thought....violence is perpetuated by glorification in media and beamed into our households on a daily basis from a young age. We have video games like GTA that desensitize kids to the consequences and repercussions of violence. Hell, all of us here play a game where you get ahead by killing sentient creatures for the most part. Movies are just plain sick compared to what they were a generation ago. TV is almost as bad. We have societies where it is OK, even practically expected that parents will divorce and fracture family units. We are living with the consequences of all those things now and it is becoming a global issue, not just an American one.

/climbs off soapbox

If someone would have used a gun, she would be dead. what I mean is, they would have used a gun if she were here in the US.

Not entirely true, a Knife is often a more deadly weapon then a gun, a gun's main advantage is speed and range, for the attacker.

Unless through a major organ, gun wounds arn't incredibly deadly *IN COMPARISON* to Blade wounds.

Guns tend to leave very clean wounds that heal easily, thier main danger is the possibility of the bullet staying lodged in.

A blade tends to affect a much larger area, and do extensive damage, a serrated or barbed blade is most certainly more dangerous then even a lodged bullet due to extensive bleeding.

Comparison's are under the assumption that in both cases the attack is moderatley proficent in the weapon of his choice.

Unless of course, you are using hollow tipped points, or have a large calibre "flesh damaging" round.

However, it was meant to be a tongue in cheek kind of thing, it's just fun poking fun!

i love when people who have no idea what they are talking about, try to be funny :)

I obviously missed that ;>

Whatever KMA, how many firearms have you qualified expert in?

Lighten up, sheesh. Go smoke a joint, get some lovin from your girlfriend or something.

Maybe it wasn't all that funny, but damnit, it made me laugh. And since I'm a Violent American, that's all that matters!! :D

the monkeys at the zoo have fun flingin their shit all over the place too but its still sad to see.

The most ironic thing that could happen right now is if her attacker were Swiss.

i dunno i thought it was pretty ironic that a country that thinks it can control violence with strict controls on firearms still has people willing to kill its leaders. interesting to say the least.

a country that thinks it can control violence
Could you please be so kind to show me where Sweden states that they try to control violence by limiting the use of firearms?

Cause violence has nothing to do with guns. The gun is the tool used, the violence comes from the person holding the gun. What you do control is the risk of people getting shot all over the place by limiting the use of firearms and also the risk of innocent people getting shot (guy grabs gun kills classroom, guy grabs gun kills people in store etc...) .

People in every country get shot/murdered etc ... the fact that a lot of people can't just get a gun makes it so people think longer before their actions. Maybe that limits the murders in those countries where fireamrs are illigal, maybe not.

Fact is that if you can get a gun easy, if you are in a country where shooting someone is close to something that is accepted, if you are in a community where killing someone may even be considdered cool. Then chances are there will be a higher rate of people getting shot/murdered/innocent victoms of guns.

What I write here is what I think ... I can obviously be 100% wrong.

on edit: What I mean to say with violence has nothing to do with guns, is that people are violent, guns aren't.
So in the context of what I wrote I hope it makes sense.
I am 100% against guns btw... but I assume most knew that already.

Gulors post seemed to be the most reasonable one, so I will take the time to answer him out of my point of view.

I may be wrong, but does not Switzerland have a requirement for able bodied adult males to serve, or at least be available for a national militia? Does that not mean that access to firearms is not that difficult and may in fact be a requirement? If so, how can the argument that firearms result in the violence be completely true if Switzerland has a lower murder rate than countries where firearms are verboten?

First of all I have never claimed that owning guns results in more violence. Actually I have said myself that this cannot be. As mentioned, for example Canada has a huge amount of guns per household. And yet almost no murders compared to the states.
As for switzerland. Every swiss man has to join the army for all in all a year. During this time, you recieve your own rifle. Swiss men all have their rifle at home. it is a duty to have it at home. It is a duty that it is unloaded but that you have one box of bullets around aswell. But... do swiss men ever use their gun? No. We have an average of 1.3 murders per year commited by those guns the past 10 years. And this with 7 million citizens. This is.. nothing. We have 10 times more people dying from lightnins then from those rifles.
Additionally, this duty to join the army does not count for disabled people. Well if you have bad eyes, then thats no reason. But if you have physical problems, you will not ever join the army. I don't know where you got that info from, but there is not one man in the swiss army that has just one arm, or is blind on an eye, or lacks a leg or what not.
Even I am not in the swiss army and I am 100% healthy. I decided to not go to the army. This is possible nowadays if I join the so called Civil Protection. Means I am in an organisation that ensures the protection of the civilists. This organisation makes sure every citizen has his own bunker cellar or place to go in case of a war. Additionally we ensure that the citizens have food, power, and so on in cases of emergencies. You know all that stuff that is part of the army's job in the US (I believe). We do not have guns. WTF would we need them for? We also are the ones to go help in case of natur catastrophes like floods, avalanches, storms.. you name it.


If the US were to outlaw private ownership of firearms, would that reduce the murder rate? Or increase it as new sources of illegal and untaxed revenue become available for gangs and criminals (would you like an AK47 with your order of cocaine?). When something that is perceived as desirable is made illegal, it generally results in a violent underground industry.
There is a huge difference between making something illegal and making something generally hard to obtain, make it expensive, make it bound to very high requirements and so on. With us you find weapon stores. But they are a) not a lot and b) you need to fulfill many requirements in order to buy a gun.


Since some posters perceive the US government as corrupt and evil, why on earth would you expect us to disarm ourselves, thereby putting ourselves completely at the mercy of the police state you say we are becoming?
You do not need to disarm yourself. This is not the point.. and a completely diffferent topic anyways. But tell me, why does the very most powerful army in the world that could dominate the planet with its weapons, why do you guys need another 78 billion (and whatever 100 billion you use every year anyways) in more weapons, more military, more police state stuff and so on? There is no reason. This war on terrorism is fought the wrong way. You and I know that if a person wants to blow up a bomb, he will blow up a bomb. It doesn't matter whether you spend 1000 billions in your army, or no cent. You have to stop giving those people the reason to do so in the first place. Nothing else will work. And by having wars, speaking out threats every day and blackmailing every foreign country all over the planet, you just create more hate, more anger and you push more and more people into being terrorists. I am really wondering when you will ever understand this.
Another poster said that Bush did not think about why terrorists were attacking. He just sees that they do it (rarely by the way... did you know that there have not been more terrorist attacks the past years then the years before? Its all just because of 911. Because some guys made a big attack. But the average amount of terrorist attacks did not increase, there are not more activities then before. Nothing changed besides this one big sad event. And nothing will ever change, at least not by gunpower). So yes, Bush just sees that they do it and all he can think of is to kill everyone, attack everyone, "defend your country" (which he isn't doing. He's putting you in danger, more danger)...
And this is the nature of american thinking. You do not "solve problems". You defeat everyone/everything that is a problem to you. And this will never bring you peace. You fight it out on a planet wide base. And you fight it out in the neighbourhood. If someone in switzerland stands on someone else's ground or even goes into someone else's house, you will get yelled at. This person will (if at all) tell you to get away from their ground. If you enter someone esles house, you will get yelleed at and the owner may call the police. This is the worst that could ever happen. In the US you have to be afraid of being shot as soon as you step in the garden of another person. You do not solve, you defeat. This is the difference. Everything and everyone is a threat. Everyone wants to take your things away. Everyone is evil. "I must protect my family". Yes.. ok.. from what? How many junkies ready to kill you have you met in your life? How big is the chance that a person being in your house or on your ground is really agressive and out to kill someone? It is very very small. Yet, you take your gun, load it up and target everyone.
This is a mindless generalization. Of course not every american is that way. Maybe its not even many of you. BUt lets say you have way more of "those" then the other western countries.

Here is my thought....violence is perpetuated by glorification in media and beamed into our households on a daily basis from a young age.
Yes. You are right. This is it!
But... no its not the video games, its not the movies, its not that fiction. People all over the planet enjoy those videogames just as much. Japan has the way way highest rate of violent videogames and hell they get consumed like mad. Yet they kill hundrets of times less then the US. We all have the same movies. But the general violence all over the planet (in westerns societies) has gone down. So, how do you explain the fact that we have less violence then in the 70-80's, and I mean much less, but we have all those insanely agressive and violent movies, games and such? This is not the reason. Simple.
Of course you have 2-3 kids that kill someone at the end because of, lets say.. GTA. But you always have that. You also have kids trying to fly becasue they wear a superman dress. Still the amount of kids killing people due to GTA and co is very very small. Other things are the reasons for violence.

TV is almost as bad.
Now we're getting closer to the reason. To the true reason.
Reality TV. People are not so stupid not to differ between fiction and reality. 99.99999% of the audience know very damn well that Terminator is just a movie and fiction and do not find it cool to kill people just because of that (and similar) movie.
But what is causing this all then? Reality! Its the real world out there. It is the TV stations telling you about threats and real dangers out there all the time. Yet another Columb ine fact (but it is true). THe violence all over the states has gone down about 20% the past years. Reality TV shows about violence reports have gone up 600% the last years.
Every single day you are being bombed with "omg the crime and threats around the corner. Right with you. Take care. It could happen to you. Every dasy. Every second. You are in danger. Murderrers are all over. Defend yourself. Killer snakes are around us. Aliens are comming! Drugsa re all over! Terrorists are all over! We need GUns! Be careful. Don't go out! We need to kill and protect else we will be killed omg!"
This is the shit you eat all the time. You are constantly being put in fear. If its not from big bad black males, its from terrorists, or diseases or or or... and when you get told over 2 years how many terorists there are and that they all plan to kill you! Kill your family! Then you will for sure not say no to "anti terrorist actions that will.. cost 78billions". You wil not say no against laws changing turning you into a police state, because... "its all for your security. defend your family". You will not disagree with Bush attacking iraq because "its all against terrorists, and we protect your family". You will buy a gun because a murderer may enter your house and since you keep seeing it on TV, and since its REAL (yes, there are people doing that, just very very damn few that you will 99.9999% never ever see one f those), so since its real, you are afraid of them and much easier willing to use your gun.
And you will also not ever quesiton all the things Bush does becuase he does it for you, he does it to protect your family. If Bush says he needs 100 billions to ensure freedom, you will give him 100 billions. Because hey, there are terrorists, you need to protect yourself. Ok those 100 billions end up in being used for more weapons, will be used for more wars, more death and more murder. But hey.. Bush says he protects your family. You have no fucking proof ever that anything Bush ever did in fact helped in the war against terror. You have no fucking clue whether the threat of terrorism has gotten any smaller ever with all those things that happend. You don't!
And yet, this is the great thing. As long as you cannot measure threat, as long as you cannot tell how big the danger is, Bush can go on. He can tell you that you are in danger. And he will tell you, because he wants money. He will keep not solving any of your huge problems in your country. Your taxes, social problems, economy, employment blabla. As long as terrorism is there, those problems in your country don't count. They are ignored. And its good, because Papa Bush protects you and your family from being killed by a plane flying in your house!

And the TV is doing the same with you. I mean the TV which does not involve this terrorism bullshit manipulation. The Reality TV suggerates you that "omg murderers, all over, they want to kill you, they are evil, protect yourself, you are in danger, all over us, around the corner, be afraid, have fear, use your guns, protect yourself, they are after your kids, they torture, they are all sick, they are all psychos, dont trust anyone, pain and suffering strikes you.. LOADING, PLEASE WAIT...."
This is what you get told every day all the time. And this is what makes you violent and agressive.
Fear. You can all tell me that you are not afraid but I don't believe you. You all are afraid of the next terrorist attack. Bush's coworkers are good. They keep you afraid.
And the TV keeps you afraid of murderers and violence ablabla so that you use your gun much easier. You are afraidm, you close your door, everyone is a potential murderer. Lets not give anyone on the internet your name. Someone will come and kill you. Pictures on the internet? No! They will abuse it. Your adress or phone number? OMG never! They will make terror with you!

Hello, I am Oliver Oettli
I live at the Mühlebrücke 6
in 2502 Biel, Switzerland.
My phonenumber is +41 32 322 77 68
And my pictures you can find at www.flowingthought.com

OMG! I will die! They will rape me! Hang mne! Kill my family! Panic! Run! Al Qaeda will enslave me and take me as a hostage! Or the next mass murderer will pick me and come to my house and kill me! Or call me all day long!

Yeah right.
This is what you get told. No. this is not what everyone believes. But there are enough of you that do it to explain
a) this anti terror war that got INSANELY out of hand
b) so many murders in your country
c) the fact you are afraid and awlays think you must protect your family rather then.. feel free.

Here. Flame me below.

Cause violence has nothing to do with guns.


Then stop advocating the elimination of them as a means to end violence.

i couldn't stop laughing at your post long enough to read the rest of it im sorry :(

the more you post, Taino, the less people have to defend themselves. i've given up reading thru your posts, and halo's, because it takes you so long to reaffirm what i already know, you are completely irrational and a complete tool.

Cause violence has nothing to do with guns.

Then stop advocating the elimination of them as a means to end violence.
Thats what I keep fucking preaching. Not reading my post is ok. But not reading my post and then not having a clue what I said and insulting me for it is a bit weak.

you are a completely irrational and a complete tool
Thanks, I never was called a tool. Some abused me as sextoy, or liked my tool. but being a tool.. that's new. :D

knee jerk much?

holy moly.

with as much posting and rambling as you do Taino, it doesnt surprise me that its difficult for you to tell when someone is replying to you or something you posted or NOT replying to you.

im glad we agree on the fact that no amount of gun control will put an end to violence and that from here on out you will no longer support the banning of weapons as a means to that end. happy days! /snoopy dance!

Its a difference between "pushing people into busing guns and making it really nice and cut eto have em" or "making restrictions and keeping it all under controll".
I do not think its a good idea to push guns and everything. However, making them all illegal is not the solution for less violence. Having generally less guns helps tho, for sure.

Its like with drugs. If you push drugs and make them buyable everywhere for everyone and make a pro drgu propaganda, you will not have less junkies. But completely denying them, making them illegal does not solve the problem either, does it?

gun registration is one step away from gun confiscation.

OMG! A plane hit the white house lets declare marshall law and find out who the terrorists are. quick make a list of who bought more than 1 gun in the last 6 months and lets round em up and racially profile them and "investigate" their ties to terrorist groups *cough*the NRA*cough* . yeah yer right thatd never happen. because we know peoples civil rights would never be infringed upon because our government and its leaders respect us so much and have made sure our rights arent violated at all costs. ugh nm they have a new War on Terrorism and with it comes all these new laws they need to trample peoples civil rights so they can track down terrorists easier.

'Cause violence has nothing to do with guns.'

- Uhm, kay.

MUAHHAHHAAA :)

I am sure you all have got 2-300 played days. You all are living in Norrath.
Man, go in, open your Inventory window and check your Intelligence there :) LOL

Tancos
Int: 86 :) (with KEI)

am sure you all have got 2-300 played days. You all are living in Norrath.
Man, go in, open your Inventory window and check your Intelligence there LOL
I don't play EQ anymore ...

Anyway.

Owning a gun does not mean you are violent, killing someone does not mean you are violent, killing someone because you enjoy it or are a sick bastard or feel he went into your territory or whatever makes you a violent person or shows it ... using a gun to do so does not express how violent you are it shows the tool you used to express your violence.

KMA ... when you take a quote (mine) and then state that Taino is a moron for saying that (what he didn't) then it kinda makes what you have to say irrelevant.

That's all ...

Realistically, you post here so I'd have assumed you play EQ, too.

Why do people outside the U.S. think there's a gun store every 50 feet in the U.S.?

As has been pointed out 1000 times, most guns used to perpetrate a crime are not acquired legally. Making it harder to acquire a gun legally does not solve the problem. Moreover, gun ownership/storage is ALREADY not legal in some (perhaps many) of the areas where gun crime is most common (Cook County in Illinois being an example).

Question: What should one have to do to acquire a gun legally?

Question: What should one have to do to acquire a gun legally?

Question should be: why should anyone need a gun.....

Anwer the question or don't comment. One can make a case for not needing 100's of things we use/have every day. I'm sure you're ancestors weren't asking that question during the first half of the 20th century.

As a gun owner, my opinion is that a rigid course of gun-safety should be taken and passed before anyone is allowed to purchase a firearm. Beyond that, existing laws are sufficient. I grew up hunting and participating in sports marksmanship so I am comfortable around firearms.

To respond to Taino's post about Reality TV being worse than movies/video games, I have to disagree. They are the same in my book. Keep in mind the garbage passed off as "reality TV" is a fairly recent trend. Violence has been increasing in western society over my entire lifetime...far longer than any TV trend.

Take a look at movies made in the early 60's and compare to what is churned out now. In the old days we had Alfred Hitchcock suspense, now we get Freddy Kruger Vs Jason splatter flicks.

People have become jaded. It takes more and more outrageous visual violence to spark an emotional response. Your violence rate has gone up as well compared to the sixties and seventies. The constant bombardment of graphic violence with no real consequence to the viewer except "entertainment" can't help but have an effect on society.

As far as the US military budget, arguments can be made that it has stabilized the world as much as it has caused problems. Without the US military , North Korea would long ago have overrun the south and they would all be starving now. China would have invaded Taiwan (and still may if they think they can get away with it). Terrorists are not the only potential threats we would face. Maybe at some point economies will be so intertwined that wars will be unthinkable, but we have not reached that point yet.
If we seem paranoid, it might have something to do with our history of drastically demobilizing after a war, only to be caught with our pants down a few years later when a new war breaks out. It's happened to us several times and these days there is no one else to take up the slack.

Even so, our huge military is mainly big in the money it spends. Other countries actually have much larger percentages of their manpower or raw numbers of boots in service than the US. Our weapons cost big bucks though, as we are always willing to spend money to make sure we take as few losses as possible. That means having better gear than anyone we might face. Do we really need all that we have to win any war we might face? How do you know the answer to that? It's a question debated in our congress every year when the budget is discussed. Right now, in the middle of an ongoing struggle with islamic terrorists and with potential problems with North Korea, don't expect the US to cut it's defense budget.

Anwer the question or don't comment.
Who ya daddy!!!

Question should be: why should anyone need a gun.....


Because deer and ducks are delicious, and store bought is not the same as wild.

Next question?

I just renewed my NRA membership for life.

Chicago! BANG! BANG!

Question should be: why should anyone need a gun.....

Jeezus H. You have a decent conversation going, then spew some shit like this.

No matter how you see it, violence is a part of humanity.

The world is not some utopian la-la land where everyone gets along and nothing bad happens.

" Why should anyone need a gun.... " is a perfectly reasonable question.
Why should anyone NEED a gun these days.Do you need to go out and shoot a deer to survive ? Answer : NO Therefore,the reason most people own firearms is for pleasure or protection.Protection being a pretty poor excuse for owning a firearm these days,except for military purposes,etc.
So,you get pleasure from going to the shooting range and firing off a few rounds.Imo this is pretty much acceptable,you`re not harming anyone by doing this.Though you still own a firearm and you can take it home with you at night.If this person is inclined to,they can go out and kill numerous people.This isn`t likely,but it happens.It is far easier to go on a killing spree with a high-powered rifle,that it is with say,a kitchen knife.

On the subject of killing for sport,well to each thier own.But to me it seems that getting pleasure from the death of another being is pretty barbaric.So all i can say on that subject is,bad karma.I don`t belive in karma really,but it would be nice to see animals get thier own back on the hunters.*pictures a swarm of rabbits and a hapless hunter*

Why should anyone NEED a gun these days.Do you need to go out and shoot a deer to survive ? Answer : NO
No, but having a gun makes it a hell of a whole lot easier to hunt a deer, don't you think? Ir requires less skill than a bow and arrow, and has a higher probability of a quick, killing shot being administered with less training and practice.

Also, wild game that hasn't been pumped full of hormones to promote fast and un-natural growth might very well be more healthy for you than eating farm raised beef/chicken/turkey whatever.

On the subject of killing for sport,well to each thier own.But to me it seems that getting pleasure from the death of another being is pretty barbaric.So all i can say on that subject is,bad karma.I don`t belive in karma really,but it would be nice to see animals get thier own back on the hunters.*pictures a swarm of rabbits and a hapless hunter*

Meat hunting/fishing is NOT the same as sport hunting. Killing a wild animal is also (some would argue) no less humane than raising it to be killed. At least by taking them from the wild, you're allowing them a *chance* to escape, though you might be aiding in creating a species of super-paranoid game.

If we are going to go into a vegan/vegetarian argument, start another thread. I'd love to talk about that.

Anyhow, now I'm hungry

I agree with you,in a way.Killing a wild animal is no less (humane,for lack of a better word) than eating meat killed by someone else.But i was however refering to sport hunting,as in killing for the sheer pleasure of it.

I myself am i meat eater,and i doubt i would stop eating meat.I look at it this way,since the animal is already dead.i may as well put it`s death to good use and eat it :)

Though,hunting with the intention of eating the animal is,imo better than just killing it and leaving it to rot/skinning it.I still see no real reason why anyone would have to do that,you can get perfectly good meat at stores.Which brings us back to the sport killing,just because you eat the animal doesn`t mean you arn`t hunting it for sport.You get fun out of killing it,then you eat it.Better in a way but still slightly pointless imo

/peace out

i don't know who you are or where you live or what lvl of security you enjoy in your life but to dictate to me how and when its ok for me to defend myself is rediculous. if you feel safe enough to not need a gun to protect yourself from people willing to do you harm for their own gain, then by all means, dont buy a gun. you are an arrogant asshole if you think its your place to tell me how to protect myself and my family. you may feel comfortable pickin up your telephone and calling the police for help when you need it. i have heard too many stories from friends that have been victimized in the blink of an eye to rely on anyone other than MYSELF to protect me and my family and my loved ones. i envy the sheltered existence you seem to live.


in its truest form, hunting, is necessary. you do your hunting in the supermarket. that's your CHOICE! just because someone else kills it, doesn't mean it didnt die because you were hungry. get it? when disney makes a movie about some stupid chicken on a chicken farm being slaughtered by the big bad white man and someone wants to ban your butterballs (yes im illustrating the absurd by being absurd), you might be able to think for yourself and realize how absurd your views are.

sport/trophy hunting is NOT the hunting im defending. thousands of decent honest hard working americans put meat in their freezer to feed their families every season. you think you know whats best for everyone, thats what makes you a bad american. you are no better than taino and haloface.

Didn't read the 8(jesus) pages of this, just going to say I'm quite sure that many of our fellow americans have done things crazier than that.

i don't know who you are or where you live or what lvl of security you enjoy in your life but to dictate to me how and when its ok for me to defend myself is rediculous
Did you ever in your whole life ever just remotely need your gun to protect yourself? Tell me!
This is a huge pile of horseshit that everyone in america needs one.. bah what do I say... several guns to defend themselves.

The chance that you get yourself in danger for having a gun, the danger of accidents, overreaction (and killing someone out of rage) is way way higher then the danger that you will, at any point in your life, truly absolutely need a gun to protect your life.
The only reason why the need for a gun may be higher with you then with us is because everyone and his brother own one. With us they don't. And since noone has a gun, noone even thinks about having one themselves. And it works perfectly.

Please tell me, when in your whole life did you ever need a gun to protect yourself. And then be very honest... wouldn't a pepperspray have done the same (if you were robbed or so)? Actually much better? The only, very absolutely only situation where you could use a gun is when someone else i pointing a gun at you and it is simply (and nothing else) about who shoots first. How many times have you been in this situation please? And if you were there, then I don't want to know what kind of "work" you have, Godfather Cippone.

how many times have you had your car stolen taino? do you still lock your doors? why?

yes ive had situations where the mere presence of a firearm has saved myself from a confrontation. a certain idiot decided a darkened highway shoulder was the appropriate time and location to discuss my driving abilities and the questions he had concerning them. i was forced off the road and approached. having a loaded 45 on my passenger seat seemed to convince the idiot that the problem was not as severe or dire as he once thought it was. i'm not a violent person and unfortunately you will never know exactly who is, or isnt, at any particular time. i am, however, extremely committed to my life and its liberty and my pursuit of happiness. im not gonna roll down my window and squirt pepper spray (exceedingly unreliable) in the eyes of a much larger more aggressive and more violent individual so that you can feel better about americans. nor will i wait patiently on a dark road for the cops to answer my 911 call while this violent individual decides which course of action to take.

Thankfully in this country someone doesnt have to be pointing a gun at you for you to defend yourself with force. if you choose to wait for that scenario to defend yourself then i wish you well.

When someone you love is at the mercy of a violent criminal with the intent of harming them, then you come tell me how best to handle the situation. i don't need it to happen to me to know what id do beforehand.

Welcome to the Wild Wild West ....

Seriously ... If you did not have the loaded 45 (sounds cool eh?) on your passenger seat, would the guy have attacked you? If the guy would have attacked you, would you have shot him, killed him? Would you feel that taking a life would have been a resonable punishment upon that person?

Do you feel that your world has become a safer place with everyone carrying guns and being able to kill at will?
Do you feel your world is a safe place for your family that you treasure so much?

KMA . before you engage in a tirade on how we Europeans should STFU please try to engage in a discussion about how carrying guns have made your area more safe for the ones you love.
Because if your end conclusion would be that carrying a gun did not make your area safer but more insecure due to the constant risk of being shot then maybe the gun laws should be looked upon again in a different view.

I know guns are a part of your culture so it would be silly for me to say get rid of the guns right now that you have been able to carry for 100's of years. But I would like to have people think about how safe their world has become thanks to those guns.

having a loaded 45 on my passenger seat seemed to convince the idiot that the problem was not as severe or dire as he once thought it was
Well, I personally have at all times in my life been able to
a) talk it out
b) not even get in such a situation

Oh so he approached your car? oh my god.. you barely made it out alive huh? You wer ereally lucky you had that gun. I mean he approached your car! Oh my! Thats just as close to beaing murdered, you are right! Do yo hear yourself speak?

how many times have you had your car stolen taino? do you still lock your doors? why?
The chances of getting your car stolen and having someone break in your house are like 10000 times higher then being shot. At least with us. Locking my doors doesn't hurt anyone. Having a gun is an agressive act in itself. You show to everyone "look I have a gun, I am able to kill". By locking a door I just show everyone "see I do not want other people in my appartment, thank you".

Seriously ... If you did not have the loaded 45 (sounds cool eh?) on your passenger seat, would the guy have attacked you? If the guy would have attacked you, would you have shot him, killed him? Would you feel that taking a life would have been a resonable punishment upon that person?

I cannot predict how someone i don't know and have never met will act/react to any given situation. all i can do is try and be prepared for the reactions i consider a threat. if forcing someone off a highway and boxing them in and getting out of your vehicle and approaching them can be interpreted as anything other than a hostile response/reaction then we don't have much to discuss. someone that reacts with that kind of hostility is unpredictable. if he had attacked me, yes i would have shot him. i'm not a cop nor an officer of the courts so "punishment" is not the appropriate term. in this hypothetical situation, i didn't shoot him to punish him. i shot him to stop him from assaulting me. if you have the state of mind that an ass kicking is an acceptable form of self expression, or reaction, to a situation you dont like then by all means, let him kick yer ass. it isnt acceptable. no matter upset you are physically assaulting someone is not a protected course of action to deal with it.
________________________________________________
(end of reply to ralf..)

you can monday morning quarterback situations like this all you want Taino. You lock you car doors because there is a RISK that you perceive. someone MAY steal your car. it isnt very likely but you are smart enough to consider and weigh your options and take the appropriate actions you see as reasonable. your stupid question about whether or not i was ever in a position to use a firearm to defend myself, as a means to justify whether or not YOU thought i needed a gun to protect myself, was EXACTLY my point. if you decided a car alarm, a steering wheel lock, and a tracking device were how you chose to deal with the perceived threat of someone stealing your car, then so be it. your solution is to lock the doors. i guess it depends on what you value. if you value the life of a person that is willing to risk your life by beating your ass over a traffic incident then we have nothing to talk about. im not gonna get outa my truck and let YOU decide if now's a good time to kick my ass or not. this society has clear lines drawn in the sand about what is and what isnt acceptable behaivor. beating someone is not accepted and people are allowed to take personal responsibility for their own safety. if you dont want to be beaten you dont have to be beaten. get it? im not gonna get in a fist fight with someone over a traffic incident but if you think i need a beating bad enough to risk your life to give it to me then im well within my rights to stop you from doing that and the best TOOL for that job is a firearm.

Your reply made sense KMA .. thx :)

its ok. i get it. guns scare you. thats not because guns are bad. its because you dont know any better and you expect the worst. fear and ignorance are an entertaining combination.

its ok. i get it. guns scare you. thats not because guns are bad. its because you dont know any better and you expect the worst. fear and ignorance are an entertaining combination.

If this was directed at me ...

I do not fear the gun but the one shooting. I have been tought several ways to defend myself and shooting was/is not one of em.
But ofcourse .. we don't need to use guns because we hardly ever get someone with a gun to attack us. Usually they will use knifes or their bare hands.
I guess in your case chances are big the guy comming at ya will probably have a gun too.

This is what is the biggest difference I guess ... you have 90% chance meeting a guy with a gun, we have 0,001% chance of that same situation.

sorry ralf you were quick on the reply button :)

that last response was intended for taino. i appreciate the candor and respect your opinion.

To answer Taino, I once had to use a firearm to protect myself when I was in early college. I went up hiking in the mountains above Boulder one weekend and found myself cornered in a rough cul-de sac, no climbable tree in reach with about half a dozen feral dogs. People in that area had a real bad habit of setting loose unwanted dogs to fend for themselves and after a while they pack up. These were not small dogs and they were about to make me dinner. I was carrying a 9mm pistol with me and was able to drive them off in short order.

I have never had to use one to defend myself against a human and I hope I never do.

The chances of getting your car stolen and having someone break in your house are like 10000 times higher then being shot. At least with us. Locking my doors doesn't hurt anyone. Having a gun is an agressive act in itself. You show to everyone "look I have a gun, I am able to kill". By locking a door I just show everyone "see I do not want other people in my appartment, thank you".

Hahah, this one is a real gem.

Having a gun is an agressive act in itself.

It's this kind of wacky logic that is just amazing. It can lead to all kinds of conclusions.

1. Owning a musket some ancestor used in the Civil War or Revolutionary War is an aggressive act. Storing it AT THE POLICE STATION as some cities require is an aggressive act.

2. Police forces are, by definition, here to put us down and kill us, since they not only OWN guys, they CARRY them.

3. By this logic, owning a knife is an aggressive act, too. So, therefore, owning a kitchen knife is an aggressive act. GOD FORBID some idiot make me mad by WAVING his knife around.

4. Living in Alaska or Northern Canada and hunting for your food is obviously an aggressive act, since you own and USE a gun. People who acquire food on their own and don't buy it in stores should be thrown in jail.

5. Obviously, I'm a danger to society, since I own a gun. Should I turn myself in?

6. Correct me if I'm wrong - doesn't Switzerland have mandatory military training? So, therefore, all Swiss men have been trained to kill in cold blood. What's the solution for that little issue - throw them all jail?

Don't laugh at this logic, kids. This is a simple extension of some of the silly arguments seen here.

'Why do people outside the U.S. think there's a gun store every 50 feet in the U.S.? '

- U.S.? The place where you obtain the possibility of purchasing a gun if you open up a bank account?
I could not think at all why they would imagine there's a gun shop every 50 feet.

U.S.? The place where you obtain the possibility of purchasing a gun if you open up a bank account?Jesus. No end to your babbling nonsense.

Any adult US citizen can buy a gun provided they're not a convicted felon, and they're not mentally deficient. The type of gun (handgun, rifle, etc) is restricted by city, county, and state ordinance.

One bank, of thousands, in one state, once, offered a deal where you could receive a hunting rifle if you opened a checking account. That incident was played-up in Michael Moor's quasi-documentary Bowling for Columbine where he played the scene out as to make one believe that they just handed you the rifle over the counter.

North Country Bank and Trust in Traverse City, Michigan still has this deal. For about a $900 deposit in their bank, they let you pick a rilfe from a catalog.To take possession of the gun, the depositor must:

Produce photo identification; making it inescapably certain that the robber would be identified and caught.

Give the bank at least a thousand dollars -- (an unlikely way to start a robbery) (1).

Spend at least a half hour at the bank, thereby allowing many people to see and identify him, and undergo an FBI background check, which would reveal criminal convictions disqualifying most of the people inclined to bank robbery. The culture of Northern Michigian includes a proud tradition of HUNTING, something nobody seems to mind Canada doing with their 30 million guns.

- U.S.? The place where you obtain the possibility of purchasing a gun if you open up a bank account?

Do a little search for websites about that movie so that you can understand what a farce it was.

That particular scene was staged. Most if not all of the Heston interviews/quotes were completely faked.

That particular scene was staged.It wasn't so much "staged" as mich as it was edited to remove the hour he spent getting his background check run, just like he would have had to at any gun store.

Just like I had to when I got my guns. :)

1. Owning a musket some ancestor used in the Civil War or Revolutionary War is an aggressive act. Storing it AT THE POLICE STATION as some cities require is an aggressive act.You name it. Stored! And you will not run around with a musket and use it. Hello be a little bit logical here. Don't play more stupid then you are.

2. Police forces are, by definition, here to put us down and kill us, since they not only OWN guys, they CARRY them.
Every police officer has a gun and thats good, They hunt the bad guys. They are after the criminals, that's their job. Do you have 250 million policemen in your country? I don't think so. Do you all hunt the bad guys professionally? I don't think so either.

3. By this logic, owning a knife is an aggressive act, too. So, therefore, owning a kitchen knife is an aggressive act. GOD FORBID some idiot make me mad by WAVING his knife around.If you have a kitchen knife in your pocket or on your seat n the car, then this sure will look very peaceful, yes!

4. Living in Alaska or Northern Canada and hunting for your food is obviously an aggressive act, since you own and USE a gun. People who acquire food on their own and don't buy it in stores should be thrown in jail.Oh you personally hunt your food huh? "hey baby I'm gonna shoot us a rabbit so you can start cooking!"

5. Obviously, I'm a danger to society, since I own a gun. Should I turn myself in?Yes you live in a danger society since everyone and his brother is able to kill eachother with just pulling a trigger. With a knife you at least have to touch this person, pull that knife and push it in the stomach of the person you kill, you look in this persons eyes, you have this persons blood all over you. Not so many people do so. Shooting someone from 10 feet distance is a way smaller "line" to cross.

6. Correct me if I'm wrong - doesn't Switzerland have mandatory military training? So, therefore, all Swiss men have been trained to kill in cold blood. What's the solution for that little issue - throw them all jail?We have also been trained to protect people, to properly use a gun (hell you have to follow 2382 procedures before and after you ever use a gun), we know how to act in catastrophe cases. Our miliatry training is 5% handling weapons and 95% acting right in whatever situation. It is illegal using your army gun. Everyone has it in case of a war. Its a stupid old law and there are like 100 people a year using this gun, 98 of them shoot on a tree or in the sky because they're stupid and wanna "try out". And then they go to jail since they lack their bulllets next time they go to the army, which means they used them.

Yes you live in a danger society since everyone and his brother is able to kill eachother with just pulling a trigger.

I just don't understand the lack of intelligence and logic behind this statement.

What percentage of U.S. citizens are gunowners?

Wait - what percentage of Swiss citizens are gunowners? If you continue to define gun ownership as the problem, then this defines your country as being more dangerous than the U.S.

Firearms ownership
United States population...273,000,000

Firearms (handguns, rifles, and shotguns) owned by civilians...235,000,000

What fraction of U.S. households owns firearms?...42%
What fraction of U.S. residents owns firearms?...28%There's the US numbers. Waiting for you guys...

If you think those numbers are goofy, just understand that I'm a household of 3, and I'm the only gun-owner in it, with three guns.

I own 8 paintball guns. Does that make me a bad bad man? 8(

I own 8 paintball guns. Does that make me a bad bad man? 8(

Burn in hell sinner! ;)

P.S Paintballing is Teh R0xx0r ! :b ...or something

paintball rocks, air soft sucks