Why don't all women swallow?

Why do non pulling classes want to pull ???

Why do you stay in the left PASSING lane when you are driving slower then the person behind you?

Why do shaman's or enchanters not slow everything in camp until someone engages? Meaning, if there are more then 1 NPC in camp why don't you slow everything before you do anything else? Except maybe heal.

Why do people turn left some before they turn right while driving a car?

Why do people take there sweet old time when they are getting into there car and they see someone waiting to take their parking spot?

Why do people speed up when they see someone trying to pass them and then slow down when they cant pass them?

Why is Yaka, Yakateer, Archaic, Judithe, and @#%$ suck Dicks?

Why do people walk there dogs and don't pick up the shit that they leave in your yard? I love the part in Me, Myself and Irene where Jim Carey takes a shit in his next door neuhbors (Spelling?) yard. Everyone should be do it.

Why did God fuck most women and not give them bigger tits?

Why do people want to talk another 10 minutes on the phone when you say that you have to go?



These are some questions I just don't understand. Maybe you have your own and want to add to this list.

Lopp Syded 65 Shaman
Gnore 65 Bard

Why do shaman's or enchanters not slow everything in camp until someone engages? Meaning, if there are more then 1 NPC in camp why don't you slow everything before you do anything else? Except maybe heal.

People tend to die horribly when they try to slow a mob that hasnt been engaged, especially if the slow is resisted, but as a Shaman yourself you should know that :)

Why do people speed up when they see someone trying to pass them and then slow down when they cant pass them?


cuz it's usually the dickheads that were two cars behind you speeding up to pass 2 cars in traffic so they can squeeze into a half a car length opening between you and the car in front of you and they need to be fucked over for being such a total fucking prick. that, and its fun to toss a couple ball bearings out yer window as the asshole pulls alongside you to flip you off.

Why do non pulling classes want to pull

Enchanters do a fine job pulling pofear, I know personally :P


Why do you stay in the left PASSING lane when you are driving slower then the person behind you?

Because people like getting beat down at the stoplight.


Why is Yaka, Yakateer, Archaic, Judithe, and @#%$ suck Dicks?

My guess is an abusive father, and alcoholic mother.

Why did God fuck most women and not give them bigger tits?

Breast size all depends on the woman. I have seen too big, and I have seen too small. It all depends on the frame of the woman. I prefer a nice large B cup, or a perfect C.

Just enough to hold onto without wasting too much.

How come you never see 7-11's being built? There always just there.



Anything more then a mouth is a waste. Small b-cup girls are the way to go.

Dart,

I agree with an Enchanter as a pulling class, as long as they have Arc. Rune. Classes I see as a pulling class, Bard, Monk, Ench, Ranger outside, and SK. Not a Cleric, not a Shama].

Woulf,

When I say the speed up thing, I mean on the highway, open road. In stop and go traffic, it doesn't matter to me.

Why do people turn left some before they turn right while driving a car?You mean where they swerve part way into your lane, then duck back over and turn? I have a theory, they watched too many racing shows on TV. Or something. Idiots. But it's becoming much more common as time goes by. Pretty soon people will wonder why you and I don't swerve. Some day I'll teach 'em though. I'll be in the lane next to them and won't move. (insert evil cackle)Why do people take there sweet old time when they are getting into there car and they see someone waiting to take their parking spot?Because I can't stand people who stalk me all the way from the entrance of the store, and I think it's funny. This, to me, is a prime opportunity to pull out my phone and catch up with some long lost friends. Or sort the CD's in my car. Pick belly button lint. Whatever. :)

My question - Why don't people understand that everyone inside the crowded elevator/room has to come out before more people can go in?


-Kanyli

I see people are avoiding the very first question in this topic.... even Dart, which is surprising as he is the Teabag Master. :p

Dart, you gotta have a theory on this

Vahs!

Clerics are a pulling class, with lull. They also have fast casting stuns and roots.

Shamans are a pulling class, with malo and aoe slow.

Druids are a pulling class, with aoe root, and harmony in many places.

Warriors are a pulling class, with defensive and evasive.

Paladins are a pulling class, with their uberroot, stuns, LoH, and pacify sometimes.

Rogues are a pulling class, with SoS scouting. Ok, rogues aren't actually a pulling class.

Mages... nm.

Why do people turn left some before they turn right while driving a car?

Reducing the radius of curvature for the turn?

This allows some corners to be made easier, and allows other corners to be made at a higher velocity.

Why don't all women swallow?

You taste like shit.

Why do shaman's or enchanters not slow everything in camp until someone engages? Meaning, if there are more then 1 NPC in camp why don't you slow everything before you do anything else? Except maybe heal.

I dunno about you, but I'm usually busy mezzing rooting tashing?

Why do people speed up when they see someone trying to pass them and then slow down when they cant pass them?

Because they are defending the buffer they have between themselves and the car in front of them?

Why did God fuck most women and not give them bigger tits?

I was under the impression that there was only 1 instance of god fucking a woman?

:p~

I got a theory.

Most Women Don't Swallow because they KNOW ALL men want them to)

dat simple.

Why do shaman's or enchanters not slow everything in camp until someone engages? Meaning, if there are more then 1 NPC in camp why don't you slow everything before you do anything else? Except maybe heal.

Depends on how many mobs...don't want slow running out by the time you get to the mob. Waste of mana. I also might not give a shit if I'm low on mana and the cleric has been running on full mana the entire time till I get some mana back.

Why do people walk there dogs and don't pick up the shit that they leave in your yard? I love the part in Me, Myself and Irene where Jim Carey takes a shit in his next door neuhbors (Spelling?) yard. Everyone should be do it.

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but why do I give a shit (no pun intended) if some dog takes a crap in my yard. Free fertilizer. Pay attention where you are stepping. It might be different in the north, but here in the south we need to be looking for fire ant nests anyway.

oh yayz!1! we gotz us some free shitz in teh yard, maw!oneeleven! uberpwn

Necro's = 2nd best pulling class behind Bards.

"Rogues are a pulling class, with SoS scouting. Ok, rogues aren't actually a pulling class."

Someone, please, memo the rogues on this ;) . I made the mistake of taking two rather well-known rogues on a Miragul the other night. It was an evening where nothing went right and we all ate multiple deaths. As I told Lyrik when he commented on our naked party outside the entrance, 'Well, I *wish* I could say it was a hard...'

The primary reason for the multiple dirtnaps? Rogue SoS invincibility syndrome ;) ...

Of course, I did not acquit myself any better when one of them *finally* asked for a pacify, and it had been so long since I had used it that I'd loaded up Insanity in slot 5, was adjusting to new glasses (curses the sadist who invented progressive bifocals) and, erm, didn't notice until it landed...

And re the other question, we don't slow the multiple adds on incoming because 1) we're busy locking down, 2) Enchanter slow is a measely 2 minutes, and 3) we like staying alive long enough to finish our jobs... ;)

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

Any class can pull. You hit the mob, you run back to camp. Pull acomplished.

please, memo the rogues on thisWe got the memo... the Paladin sitting there with his thumb up his ass didn't and doesn't care that the enc/cleric is FM and the clock is ticking.
I made the mistake of taking two rather well-known rogues on a Miragul the other night.What's wrong with 2 Rogues in a group?
primary reason for the multiple dirtnaps? Rogue SoS invincibility syndromeIn 30 normal missions, I've had ONE mob see SoS - that's what Escape is for :)

Traps make me fire it off more than anything these days though... usually because I lag-ghost into a room, get unlucky with 2 traps very near each other or get turned around and forget to disarm a room :)

Why do non pulling classes want to pull ???

Damn you guys made a lot of assumptions.. he is referring to monks..

Kelraz = 100% correct

Zehn, I forgot about Necro, they do a great job, well some of them do. Shit, they have to, they pull all the time being solo and all. BTW, I will take a necro in my group anytime, same with a Mag, and Druid.

Dear Jazya:

Hah! Knew I could get a rise out of ya... ;)

There's nothing wrong with two rogues in a group, other than it's damned near impossible to keep your flighty asses in camp churning out DPS... ;)

That night was just a comedy of errors all around. Watching you, and then (name concealed to protect the guilty :) ) try to pull that named in the last room, and the resulting trainwreck, was just the icing on the cake...

Having five mobs locked down and watching the druid eat it because the last add is completely *inside* the named truly sucked though. We wouldn't have made it on time, but it would have been fun to at least have gotten it turned around and have been working it when we got booted...

So, up for another? :P

Regards,
Nydia

Anytime. I've got about another 25 to do or so before I can finally retire my extremely overpriced bazaar weapon.

Well, okay, so there are a ton of retarded necro's out there. I can honestly say there's only 4 or 5 I've met that are actually any good.

I like the ones that nuke. Hahahahaha. After playing a wizard for 4 years, I kinda look at the necro nukes and go, 'Wtf. Why did SoE even bother?'

Ever see what dog shit does to a yard after awhile if you dont pick it up? Either you are to young to have a house or you live in an apartment.

lol...

i speed up when people behind me are trying to pass me and slow down when theres a car in the other lane. I drive pretty quick as is , been getting quicker more recently, and i still see people in such a rush i let them know they should relax and slow down...

i actually dont do it unless the person behind me starts tailgating, or honking, or swerving between lanes..

now, the going a little to the left to turn right is physics. Going into the left gives you a different angle and makes it so you can take the turn faster and come out faster than a straight turn from right lane -> right lane

its easy to show in person but hard to describe. Basically the car achieves the same angle to take the turn a farther distance away from the term and can make a diagonal line to the right lane instead of a more sharp turn.

/shrug

Rogues can use escape if they need to do one big pull.

now, the going a little to the left to turn right is physics. Going into the left gives you a different angle and makes it so you can take the turn faster and come out faster than a straight turn from right lane -> right laneI know that, but you can't convince me that the drivers turning are going nearly fast enough to warrant that. Seriously, by the time they slow down, they definately don't need to swerve back out. It's sloppy driving, and I've had a few close calls from it.

Hence, I figure they're picking it up from watching too many action flicks.


-Kanyli

Why do people take there sweet old time when they are getting into there car and they see someone waiting to take their parking spot?

Why do people speed up when they see someone trying to pass them and then slow down when they cant pass them?


Because it's fun to piss off impatient people.

this topic is just too funny .

you are telling me druid and shaman can't pull ? you really need to start a shaman from level 1 and learn. i belive someone said this in first page and said it very nicely:
"as a Shaman yourself you should know that"

Noarm,

Your an idiot. Lets go over this. Yes a shaman can pull, I have a level 65 shaman and have pulled with him many times. But, a shaman is not a good pulling class.

What I am talking about, dealing with a pulling class, is what is the most optimal classes to be a puller? A shaman pulling is a waste of time, mana and HP's. With the possability to be a disaster. You can't tell me that you haven't ever had that NPC that resisted your slow 3, 4, and 5 times? It happens. Yes you can root park. You as a shaman getting your brains beat in will need a heal from the cleric or druid, causing agro for them. Will this happen on every pull? No, but if it happens on 1 out of every 10 or even 20 it is to many.

Ok, a shaman can pull and get multiples and servive. But, to have 4 NPC's in camp because he agroes them all is a waste.

The most optimal scenerio in the game is to pull 1 NPC at a time. This is what I am talking about. 1 NPC means everyone is doing there job and killing faster then if there was 2 or more NPC's in your camp.

Having a "I AM A SHAMAN, I CAN SLOW AND THIS FIGHT IS OVER" Mentality is why some shaman are idiots. Obviously you fit in this catagory.

Optimal is best and a SHAMAN is not a pulling class. Period.

Noarm, go break the MS-R BoT camp with your shaman for me. I know that it can be done, but you have more of a possability of dieing then the "PULLING CLASSES" do. I want to see those 2 Kriegers high 5-ing each other over your corpse.

Every one of us have put in 1,000's of hours in this game. You think that with that many hours people would realize that optimal is the best. If you haven't learned that you have learned nothing.

Outdoors, anyone can pull. It is nothing, I would say that 90% of people have pulled outside one time or another.

Lopp 65 "Non Pulling" Shaman
Gnore 65 "Pulling" Bard

I love to pull as a Shaman, do we get adds, hell ya it isnt much fun pulling singles all day!

And Imo its always best to pull a whole bunch right off the bat to see how it goes, afterall if we arent ready for multiples when we are fully buffed, FM and ready then, well, we shouldnt be in that zone/area.

I have pulled many many times, I have had lots of people say WTF is the shammy pulling for, then about 20 mins later when they havent stopped fighting cause there is ALWAYS at least one mob in camp slowed, well people dont talk much when its non stop killing.

Going to have to agree with Kelraz on this one as well, anyone can pull some just do it better than others.

Take Lethdar for example, he pulls by running up to the mob and saying move up!

different strokes for different folks.

Losyl Lignisam

*1,000's of hours*

Youre a psycho :\

Impresario Almadar Tegleftyln
Retired

2000 hours is like what... 85 days?

And that's just on 1 character.

Yeah, thousands.

Ah yeah, was thinking about days, im an idiot. Spent about 120 or so days myself :\

Impresario Almadar Tegleftyln
Retired

I consider a pull of less then 3 mobs a waste of my time.

Heh shamans are fine for pulling. I am constantly pulling with my 65 shaman. Depending on the zone or LDON I either open with malo, turgurs or a root really. /shrug nothing hard about it really. I can get all adds slowed in relatively quick time and the groups I hunt with handle them with little problem. :)

If you like the old style of single pulls then by all means Bards rock followed by monk/necro/sk. Personally I got bored of those years and prefer a much more robust game. :evil

give me a mage in a zone they can use coth in and i'll split better than any monk p

Why ask why?

Try Bud Dry.

My past two residences have been houses...I guess I'm just not anal enough to care what a pile of dogshit will do to my yard. *shrug* I've never seen any burn marks or brown patches in my yard because a neighborhood dog dropped off some previously consumed food.

Ever stepped in or mowed over dog shit in your yard? Reason enough to make them stop right there.

Where I come from, letting your dog shit on someone elses yard is cause enough for an ass beatin'.

" give me a mage in a zone they can use coth in and i'll split better than any monk p "

well said dennon u are the stupid one .. learn how to play .. thanks for trying .. next time don't use the word shaman can not pull just say " i (Dennon ) suxor and Can not Pull " thats soo much better,me thinks . LOleZ

Shamans pull opportunities are the same as any other char with a non damage doing spell.

Therefore, anyclass with a back up (fd, escape, fading mem, etc) is better for pulling, should shit go bad.

Yes there are people that can pull with any class, but talking game mechanics, thats the way I see it.

If your spell book didnt open in your face pre 35 when you sat down to med you are not old school.

Wow, a which class is better argument. This is like being in Paludial Caverns, only on the message board. Shame on you folks!

Ok yeah im gonna rant here, i had some fucktard Enchanter use this quote "hey grumglin y dont u do you job & let me PULL" coming from some shithead noob in a noob guild which i wont mentionm and a chanter nonetheless. In a fucking trivial lame LDoN NORMAL MISTMOORE adventure, any fuck can pull mistmoore right? Anyways, i continue pulling, start to tag a mob in a room which will be single and it paths back and 4 come, I think hey np, send my pet in, it enrages which buys me time, get 2 slowed, chanter not mezzing, of course, cleric heals me, gets one rounded by the remaining 2 mobs leaving me as solo healer yet still no mezzes come, i slow another, the paladin and warrior are assisting each other on the one slowed mob (still no mezzes) needless to say i die after a while, then apparently the paladin started healing and the chanter started mezzing and they won. SO i get rez then i get this retarded enchanter says to the group "hey EBAY u just wiped the grp now sit down and shut your pie hole"
At this point im angry, having my whole knowledge and experience of the game questioned for pulling because the person who wanted to pull was too slow got me i think. But i let it go nonetheless until the end of the adventure and then come up with this awesome four line pwnage at the end ! ~ heh im done.

Why do non pulling classes want to pull ???

I suppose that supports both sides, can shamans pull? sure, i pulled for 50% of my hundred odd successes in LDoN, BoT is easy to pull, tactics, HoH, as long as youre not retarded anyone can pull. Nice use of question marks here btw. Why do non pulling classes want to pull? i tend to pull fast, always a mob to kill, others don't. Thats the reason i pull.

Why do shaman's or enchanters not slow everything in camp until someone engages? Meaning, if there are more then 1 NPC in camp why don't you slow everything before you do anything else? Except maybe heal.

Isnt that what everyone does? No matter where, what mobs, whatever, raid, xp group, ldon, hard, normal always, ALWAYS first priority (along with keeping cleric alive) is slowing all mobs in camp, this simply means that your cleric doesnt get pwnd when mez/root breaks, or if they get heal aggro. Slowing all mobs in camp, or slowing on inc is a great safeguard for your group, and as a shaman with defensive AAs you can take the hits, live, and heal yourself after (except on hard where you get the shit kicked out of you fairly quickly).

Yeh so thats my thoughts, that chanter whore made me so mad. :(

Well said Dart.
Deece, that spell book sucked

Noarm,

Again, you show your stupidity. Reading starts before 1st grade in most places. The Mag comment was by Brel and I thought it was a pretty funny comment by him.

Come on Noarm. you can do better then this.

i (Dennon ) suxor and Can not Pull

Shit, Noarm, I know that I can pull a better train then anyone else in the game if need be. I love Kazumi's Note of Preservation (For you Shaman pullers - This is the Bards Invunerability Song that last 3 Ticks) and then Faiding Memories (I hope I don't have to explain what that is).

Wait, there is a named in those 40 NPC's. Let me pick him out of there and bring him back to camp. I know this will take a little doing but, there I got her. "Inc. Noarms Ogre looking Moma". Group_Member_1 /g damn, I have never heard of that one before, I wounder what she will drop? Group_Member_2 /g I think she drops something called Noarms Stench Diapers. AC is killer because of the stench on those.

Lets see your Shaman do something like that. We both know that he can't and Only a Bard, Monk, SK, and Necro know that we can.

Noarm, I am done ripping on you, I promise I won't again in this subject. Ok, I will think about it when you post some more stupid ass shit.

My main reason I posted this is to have people put in thier "Why Comments"

Hold on, i thought you said shamans cant pull, my bad. I didn't know you were comparing shamans to bards at pulling. Hands down no competition bards win, although perhaps a statement such as this one at the start would accomplish more than giving the statement of non pulling classes wrongly somehow wanting to pull. Also the place of this pulling would have been advisable to give as well, if you mean pulling mobs for an xp group, anyone can do that, singling a named out of a full room takes pacify, again if you had stated that these non pulling classes wanted to pull nameds out of full rooms i wouldnt have given you so much as a reply.

In conclusion ! Bards > all at pulling specific things (nameds, trains) whereas anyone can pull constant things in most places. kk?
Be clear next time please ~

Having to dodge the land mines left by the dog does indeed suck, but that's not as bad as what else it does to the lawn. Every place the dog shat will overgrow "quickly", and every place it took a leak will die.

My lawn looks like hell now after having a friend with two dogs live with me for 2 years. The lawn is not "even" at all. Mow it one day, the patches are back in two. The dead spots eventually went away, but there are still thin spots here and there from it. The overgrown patches are also a darker green than the rest of the lawn. Bigger blades of grass, darker, and grow 3 times as fast as the rest of the lawn.

Patches and holes everywhere.

So Grumblin, who's the 'noob enchanter' from the 'noob guild' in this instance? Just curious... ;)

Btw, re slowing mobs in camp, if there's a shaman in my group, I expect him to move down the line slowing those mobs as I lock them down. If however, I'm pulling mez *and* slow duty, I gauge how many reparks are going to be needed on a large pull to clean up the mess before I start laying down the slows. Timed out slows = wasted mana and bonus agro. As Laeyakk said, if the cleric isn't hurting for mana, I'm going to put priority on keeping things mezzed, and only slow the mob right before the mezbreak, or slow with tepid deeds.

For LDoNs, I far prefer having a shaman in the group, and having the two of us pull if I'm not charming (or even if I am sometimes :) ). I'll lay down pacifies as needed and just let him slow-pull, spamming the next target (if timing on the lull is an issue) when the current target is at 20%, and parking it in camp if they have a little trouble cleaning up the current mob. This ensures a constant stream of mobs to the damagedealing types and makes for fast work of a normal...

On hards, of course, casting pacification is known as 'pulling', and going shamanless on those is for the masochistic ;) .

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Autonomous Collective

Rereading this thread, the main question I am going to answer for all of you. What class should pull for LDoN:

Bards

Thats it, the rest of you can stay back in the camp safe and sound and let the professionals get to work. We harmony, we mez, we snare, we gate the mobs back to bind, and we live to tell about it.

Furthermore, the best bard to have to do your pulling is:

Kelraz

Hopefully I won't sit LFG for more than 15 minutes anymore! woo woo!

Kelraz once tanked for us one night in HoT when everyone was drunk and he was still a noob bish!

I remember that :) It was one of those drake thingers. I kicked so much ass.

Whoo and Lummus were pretty smashed to actually agree it was a good idea, too!

Kelraz is still a noob bish and shall be, forevermore. =)

Bards do own LDoN though.

"Noarm, I am done ripping on you"

please stop scaring me .. "YOu had me at HELlo"

I grouped with Kelraz once. He kept pulling singles. Was one of the most boring LDoN groups I've ever been in. 8( 2 Adds in a hard adventure = where the fun begins.

Nydia ~ didn't want to name names in case he/she (female toon) was having an extremely bad day and to smear dirt on this noob guild would be unfair in this instance. It wasnt you !
:D

The thing is, if you wipe the group and a (Let's call it "Non Standard Pulling Class"), then people say meh, bad pull. oh well continue on.

If you are a "Pulling Class"(See Monk, Bard, sk, and necro) and wipe the group you get labeled as a fucking noob. Most pulling classes know about pathing, proximity aggro vs smack with a stick/star aggro.

The problem comes in when one bring more than you can handle. Do you just die slowing the group down, or do you have the pulling class just feign off the adds, and try the pull again?

I prefer controlled training in ldon as much as anyone, it's faster and more fun. Sometimes it isn't an option with your group make up, if you don't have the "Holy Trinity" or a variation of it.

Anyone can do a fucking job, but those who have trained and have special abilities to do it better, usually can.

And with that, I rekindle the flamefest!

To answer your first statement, as a "Non-Standard Pulling Class" i was labelled a noob for pulling more than our group obviously (with excellent potential for CC, paladin tank one, warrior tank one, ench lock one down at least, and i can tank the other) could handle, not because of class, but because of either lack of attention or skill.

Second paragraph, i work my hardest to know the assist ranges of each zone i am pulling, decide which mob would be best to pull (as assisting mobs dont get assisted) and pull it with slow, or root if i think there will be more than 3. If too many, send pet in and hope for a rage, then either begin slowing, or rooting depending on what the CC status is in the group. If, in the situation above, i had known that the mob was going to path to the middle of the room then run towards me as opposed to hugging the wall as i was used to them doing i would have asked for a paci. I wont pull with the risk of 8 ~ but if something happens and 8 come, i'll most likely die right there, and have someone else pull that room, then continue afterwards so the pulling classes can do dps (as the 2 generally come hand in hand) and really, people dont expect shamans to do much more than help to heal and nuke after the mob's slowed, each pulling class has something else they could be doing while the mob is in camp. So making a shaman puller is productive, i have seen clerics be great pullers, and druids. So shrug, in the end it only makes 5-10mins difference.
(that whole paragraph was illogical on the second reading, nevertheless i wont fix it, heh)

Grumbling,

I love your comment.
but because of either lack of attention or skill.
I usually see it being lack of attention.

So making a shaman puller is productive
Sarcasm on this comment. Very productive, throw a tank on 1 NPC another tank on another NPC, you on a 3rd NPC, a non-paying attention ench on a 4th NPC. Instead of taking 30 secs to a min to kill off each NPC you take 10 - 15 min to kill off the 4? Plus all the mana that is wasted that you will have to take more time out of killing to med up? Sounds VERY productive to me.

i have seen clerics be great pullers
I have seen a pacify fail and down goes Frazier, err the cleric.

in the end it only makes 5-10mins difference
Most times the 5 - 10 minutes means nothing. But when you loose because you didn't have enough time, blame yourself for your lose not any other group member.

Lopp 65 Shaman
Gnore 65 Bard

I think what happens is he pulls 4 chanter mezzes one, he slows and double dots all 3 doing 120+ dps x3 and ends up at 80m at the end of it..

No shit, obviously you don't group with DoTing classes much.

It's one of the reasons I like to pull. Grab three, send pet on one, drop FPoK on each (2.6k or so DoT), FD, wait 30 seconds, then go grab some more mobs. If the ones you pulled are still in camp, root-rot the newer adds.

It makes me giggle when I get a group of newbs and they yell at me for 'soloing' and that I should be part of 'the group.' It's retarded for a necro to just sit there and DoT mobs as they come single file. Then all I become is a -really- shitty wizard.

Though to be honest, I prefer just charging rooms anyways. If you've got a good necro, handeling 8 mobs is no problem provided none of them are a fucking cleric.

So making a shaman puller is productive

You missed the context of this statement completely. I'll put it simpler..

If, in the situation above, i had known that the mob was going to path to the middle of the room then run towards me as opposed to hugging the wall as i was used to them doing i would have asked for a paci

You see, this is where i said i wasnt aware that the game would be all buggy, now, im sure you didn't read this, but it says in the general statement "had i know that i would get 4, i would have asked for a paci."

and.

so the pulling classes can do dps (as the 2 generally come hand in hand) and really, people dont expect shamans to do much more than help to heal and nuke after the mob's slowed, each pulling class has something else they could be doing while the mob is in camp

Did you just not read this part?
Let's go through a list of the things a DPS class could be doing.

Monk : General DPS
SK : If they are MT they wont be leaving the camp anyways, but if not they still contribute to the dps.
Necro : will have DoTs on the mob already, so they will not be missed for the time it takes to pull, and they have good mana so medding is not an issue, good necros are great pullers.
Bard : What does a group need a bard for for 1/5 - 1/3 of the fight? I'll leave that one to you.

Now ~
Cleric : Heal ~ nuking is an option but not generally applied in most clerics, if their tank is good health they can pull quite easily. Maybe you havent realised that paci or FD is not *required* to pull, at least in normal LDoN missions. But if it is needed, the cleric can paci sure, if resist, shrug 4 mobs inc

Druid : Heal, nuke, dot ~ in most groups i am in wth druids they are more a DPS class as the groups i had been in had a cleric as well, in the last 20-40% druids might have a few cicky dots on, the group would miss a nuke or 2 so in terms of optimum efficiency i'd go with a good cleric for pulling. But still able to pull nonetheless.

Shaman : Slow, secondary heal ~ nuking and doting, i dont generally dot because the mobs are dead before it becomes efficient, so i personally just throw a few nukes into the mob occassionally, to keep me at around 50m, but generally im not doing anything to the mob in the last 40%. Although i could be nuking i guess. As with druids, still able to get free to pull.

To wrap that all up, for optimum efficiency in terms only of usefulness in a group situation, the "pulling" classes contribute more end fight, and if the clr/dru/shm can keep mobs in camp, good for them.

Instead of taking 30 secs to a min to kill off each NPC you take 10 - 15 min to kill off the 4

Again, personally i see that this is not the case, but obviously you dont, so i'll put it simple.

If people did their jobs like they should, the mobs would have taken 30s per mob just the same, which is the point i was trying to make, that group could handle a 4 pull potentially,
as most groups can in normal LDoN, so therefore according the the above portion of this post, and the lack of downtime with a good "non-pulling class" pulling, shamans are, while not the most productive, as i could be nuking with my pathetically weak nuke. They are still productive, I find i can keep up to 3 mobs busy for long enough to get them all slowed, at which point they become no problem and i'll root em all off after that point. More than 3 i'll ask for a paci. But a paci isnt required on every pull like you seem to think.

As for bards pulling ~ sure, although if your cleric doesnt have a huge mana pool and is always lom they will need the manasong for the 1/4 of the fight that the bard would be pulling, haste, damage etc. In terms of specifics bards make the best pullers, but they are also an awesome utility to have at all times in a group, more so than any other class i'd go as far to say. So its not as efficient to have them away from the group for a time.

Most times the 5 - 10 minutes means nothing. But when you loose because you didn't have enough time, blame yourself for your lose not any other group member.

Just as a side note, i have seen "lose" spelt "loose" so many times i thought i'd point it out, because people generally think this is how its spelt, "loose" intones "not tight" whereas "lose" means "not win", or "not gain", if this was just a mistake, apologies, i normally wouldnt point it out unless i believe it to be the intentional spelling.. (its like when people use "then" to compare things, as opposed to "than" which is correct ..)

but i cant remember a time where my group has failed when i was pulling, so if it has happened 0 times, those arent very high chances. (please correct me if there was an instance ! i just can't remember one ~)

zehn identifies the cure for necro's in groups

If getting 2 adds causes you to take an extra 10 minutes to kill mobs, your group sucks. Leave and go get a new one.

Personally, i wont do a LDoN without a bard lol, they do almost everything.

Need a puller? Bard
need some CC? Bard
need haste? Bard

they dont add DPS as much as say a monk or rogue, well a ranger sometimes, if your doing Mistmoore or Miraguls where you have bow room, but they make up for it by increasing the DPS of the group as a whole. best group ive ever had, 3 Rogues, Pally, Cleric.

wouldnt do LDoN without a bard? thats taking it a bit far, sure, theyre useful, but not the be all and end all.

Shrug, LDoN normal is trivial, you can do it with almost any viable group combo.

they dont add DPS as much as say a monk or rogue, well a ranger sometimes

Oh, but so wrong :)

A good bard will overhaste your other 5 characters 30%, which is a total of 150%, throw down damage shields and haste, and increase the damage potentials of your nukers and doters (as well as procs) 15%!

I'll never do LDoN without a bard either :)

lies kelraz, this one time i did a ldon hard with my level 24 rogue, it gave the same amount of points as a normal wtf =(

some monks / rogues can carry a groups damage where as a bard cant.

Dont get wrong bards are gods after PoP its why i started my own but fact of the matter they are and always will be jack of all traits but king in none.

Well...the 30%/person isn't 150%, because it's 30% of the _base_ damage output being increased.

Let's say everyone has 100% haste; in other words, they're doing 200% (twice as much) damage. 30% overhaste brings this to 230%. 230 is a 15% increase over 200.

So the relative benefit of overhaste depends on what existing haste you have.

OMG Palarran Lies!

Truth is, bards act like the dps of 2 rogues per group, especially if that bard is me. In other words, get me for LDoN groups. People will dispute the validy of my statements, but they obviously are wrong. Once again, pick me and my fellow bards for LDoN groups in place of: damage, tanks, healers, slowers, evacers!

Why did God fuck most women and not give them bigger tits?

You have got to be a virgin.
breast size doesn't matter, in the slightest.

bigger than C = waste of flesh, saggy, stretch marks, ugly nipples

Personally, i wont do a LDoN without a bard lol, they do almost everything.

Need a puller? Bard
need some CC? Bard
need haste? Bard

You forgot the 50% slow that bards get. But for you to say you wont do a LDoN adventure without a bard is scarey.

Zehn,

You said that you like to pull and single or multiple kill while everyone else in the group is on some other NPC. I try to have the next NPC incomming or in camp. If a Necro wants another one, hopefully he speaks up and says, give me one.

It all comes down to communication. You tell me to grab you an extra, you will get an extra to do with what you want to do.

Lopp 65 shaman
Gnore 65 bard

I don't do Ldon unless i have 5 other beast lords.

A good bard...
I know 3. :\

heh, if the only way to assign yourself to a guild, was to have it in your name, then you're not old school ;) Long live Shaolset!