Some interesting things from the wikileaks posting. Here's CNN's link - of course you can pick your favorite news outlet and you'll find substantially the same items:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/11/28/us.wikileaks.iran/index.html?hpt=T1

Some of the quotes that I found interesting:

"You as Persians have no business meddling in Arab matters" - King of Bahrain

The king was also highly critical of the Iraqi Prime Minister, Nouri al Maliki. He is reported to have told his American visitors: "I don't trust this man.... he's an Iranian agent." The cable continues: "The King said he had told both (former U.S. President George W.) Bush and former Vice President (Dick) Cheney: 'How can I meet with someone I don't trust?'"

"Thank God for bringing Obama to the presidency," - King Abdullah

Iran was the "source of much of the trouble in both Iraq and Afghanistan." - King of Bahrain

"if Iran goes nuclear others in the region will move forward on the same track and the nuclear nonproliferation treaty will completely break down." - UAE Foreign Minister

"President Mubarak told Senator Mitchell during his recent visit here that he did not oppose our talking with the Iranians, as long as 'you don't believe a word they say.'"

"Mubarak has a visceral hatred for the Islamic Republic, referring repeatedly to Iranians as 'liars,' and denouncing them for seeking to destabilize Egypt and the region."

Good stuff.

I'm shocked. Totally shocked.

Wikileaks, founded by Captain Obvious.

So is any of this a threat to national security or just a diplomatic nightmare?

I am not a fan of Wikileaks, people say things with the comfort of closed doors and for a lack of a better phrase "attorney client privledge." The founder claims the leaks are provided to make the world a better place, but do you really think we are now closer to a sustainable peace than we were pre-document release?

The argument that it is a threat makes sense.
Some instances where people provided anonymous tips at their own peril are now not-so-anonymous. Others will be far more hesitant to come forward in the future.

It's only a threat to national security if you imagine the rest of the world is as dumb as the American public.

It's only a threat to national security if you imagine the rest of the world is as dumb as the American public.
They're not? Pretty sure America doesnt have any sort of monopoly on dumb people. Going with the old adage, think of how dumb the average person is, and realize half the world is dumber.

No, but we're masters at the art of population control through misdirection. Americans are demonstrably more confident about making worse decisions than any other modernized nation, and our foreign policy is a perfect example. The big hoopla here is not that we're running multiple cons on our allies, selling weapons to terrorists, bribing the entire Afghan government and getting nothing for it, destabilizing the Middle East, ad infinitum -- the hoopla is that now there is the off chance someone here knows about it, provided they were doing something besides stampeding into Best Buy for a new TV so they can pay Fox for the privilege of being told our debt is caused by poor people IN 240 Hz HD zomgz.

http://i.imgur.com/G9hpN.jpg

I was actually very dissapointed by how underwhelming the leaks proved to be.

Diplomats are such pussies these days.

That is quite a bitter view you have there, Malse. Sorry to report but the rest of the world is not all that bright either. Even some of the more educated ones can act badly in terms of the world as a whole. If you really feel compelled to leave the US in search of a new home populated by the least amount of idiots, well best prepare for a long and frustrating search.

And besides, so people know. So what? For most people does it really change anything at all? All these papers prove is that diplomacy always has had a private side which could differ from the public. A side which should remain private since its is not uncommon for public policy to represent the compromise needed to keep things stable as opposed to what world leaders and diplomats might prefer as individuals in a position to decide outcomes in their own right.

This whole mess is still a crime removed from how much of a feeding frenzy the newsies are having with it. The person who stole this material who had a clearance to gain access to it, which requires being "read in" and signing agreements that more or less dictate that if you steal this material you are knowingly committing a major criminal act knew what was going to come of just dumping it in the open for Joe Barstool and Jane Soccermom to see. He or she should be locked up with the key thrown away. The proprietor of Wikileaks...I forgot his name, is really nothing more than the ultimate attention whore. The guy is more of a gnat than someone who can boast they are campaigning for transparency. Some things don't need to be turned into Reality TV. Whats next? Barack and Michelle's pillowtalk live on global TV? There is just some stuff the public just doesn't need to see, hear or know about and the big picture as a whole has to be taken on faith that it is acting, if not in their best interest, in the very least in a manner to allow them to go about their daily lives in ignorant bliss. Yes, I might want to know if we are all being turned into Soylant Green but then again, how much can you really do once armed with the knowledge that something is going on? At least with the Soylant Green example if you knew that if you got rowdy and "The Scoops" got you then you were probably going to get turned into food than yah, I would probably just choose to behave myself rather than take on a stable but certainly questionably amoral solution to an overpopulated world which had way too many people and not enough food to provide. The thing is could your really take on Soylant Green is People without actually addressing, let alone offering a solution to, how the world got so overpopulated in the first place? For most people it doesn't need to go that far, so perhaps they just don't need to know because they can't do anything productive with the knowledge.

I was eavesdropping on some conservative talk radio today and Hannity had a long string of callers outraged at the bit about the Pakistani VP being caught with $52m in cash. Sort of sad because a) that's no revelation to anyone who's been paying attention for the past few years and b) the motivation for this sudden vigilance is clearly partisan, but I'm willing to ignore all that if it gets the conservative "patriot" sentiment against these stupid, corrupt wars and other intervention over there.

So, those leaks are clearly news to at least some people out there and/or opening some eyes. Since we're all informed far above average here, it's easy to forget just how tragically far our national zeitgeist is biased toward the American Idol, Harry Potter, and Keeping up with the Kardashians persuasion. Just because the leaks are mostly yawners for us doesn't mean they aren't having an impact.

Lummus, it's easy to find morons anywhere you go. Attempting to prove the inverse of Malse's point doesn't speak one way or the other to his actual point.

I'm willing to ignore all that if it gets the conservative "patriot" sentiment against these stupid, corrupt wars and other intervention over there.

It would be intersting to see what happens if the USA simply decided to draw down for a few years both militarily and diplomatically and focus on nothing but domestic priorities while leaving the world to its own business as we have been so vocally encouraged to do.

Otherwise, again. Its information that has little impact on those that are implicated and for the rest of the masses, what is there to gain? Further reinforcement of the distrust of government? LOL, its the difference between 90% moving to 91% of people distrusting the government. Besides fueling a recent outpouring of speculative news stories, does it make a idiota of difference? Otherwise, how does this all get fixed?

Sanchek I am aware that there is no convincing Malse one direction or the other on his general disappointment with the Human race, especially Americans and how easily we digest information without a care as to its authenticity. It is what it is. Is it up to the media to stop exploiting the need for some kind of opiate for the masses or do the masses need to get smarter so they can reverse a bit of disbelief for what they see and hear? There is no rule saying you have to eat up all up.

Lummus, it's easy to find morons anywhere you go.


The mere fact that the Kardashians are considered celebrities because Kim screwed someone on video tape proves the point. :eek:

No, but we're masters at the art of population control through misdirection. Americans are demonstrably more confident about making worse decisions than any other modernized nation, and our foreign policy is a perfect example. The big hoopla here is not that we're running multiple cons on our allies, selling weapons to terrorists, bribing the entire Afghan government and getting nothing for it, destabilizing the Middle East, ad infinitum -- the hoopla is that now there is the off chance someone here knows about it, provided they were doing something besides stampeding into Best Buy for a new TV so they can pay Fox for the privilege of being told our debt is caused by poor people IN 240 Hz HD zomgz.

http://i.imgur.com/G9hpN.jpg

Really, Malse I think your self loathing at times blinds you to a much larger fact. If you think the American public by in large are the victims of such misdirection you clearly have never lived outside your tiny bubble. Do try to live somewhere other than Mayberry for once please ;)

Btw hackers are going to /rage in support of Assange.

Umm he's been arrested for something outside of Wikileaks.....sex crime I think it's supposed to be?

Officers from the Metropolitan police extradition unit have this morning arrested Julian Assange on behalf of the Swedish authorities on suspicion of rape.

Julian Assange, 39, was arrested on a European arrest warrant by appointment at a London police station at 9.30am.

He is accused by the Swedish authorities of one count of unlawful coercion, two counts of sexual molestation and one count of rape, all alleged to have been committed in August 2010.

Assange is due to appear at City of Westminster magistrates court today.


So why is it okay for folks who have obvious connection to the 'net to disrupt the world to "protect" him?

Break their fingers/computers/gear/stones!

You've been listening to that talk radio too much again.

No one was disrupting MasterCard, Visa, PayPal, etc because he was arrested. How would that even make any sense? 4chan would've gone after something at least Swedish in that case.

They were retaliating against those companies because those companies banned Wikileaks (the organization, not Assange the individual) from accepting donations. Keep in mind, those companies didn't do that due to Assange's legal trouble in Sweden. Like you yourself said, the two issues are unrelated.

You can donate to the KKK and NAMBLA through Visa, MasterCard, and PayPal, but not to government transparency. But you know, being charged with "sex by surprise" (not rape; check out Sweden's batshit laws regarding this stuff) is typically grounds for Interpol to chase after someone; nothing to see here! :rolleyes:

Sanchek are you actually siding with Wikileaks?

There are more responsible ways to achieve transparency.

Yes, but no one is doing any of them.


Really, Malse I think your self loathing at times blinds you to a much larger fact. If you think the American public by in large are the victims of such misdirection you clearly have never lived outside your tiny bubble. Do try to live somewhere other than Mayberry for once please

Are you drunk again? I've been to Europe, Central and South America, and all over the US and Canada. Also, LOLZ Utah?

Sanchek are you actually siding with Wikileaks?

There are more responsible ways to achieve transparency.

Conflating Anonymous, the entire WikiLeaks organization, and Assange himself is the worst kind of tabloid-level thinking. Linking Assange's stay in jail with Anonymous' DDoS attacks is completely flawed. Pointing that out doesn't require having a "side".