My automatic update icon has been bugging me all week to download Service Pack 2 for Win XP Pro, but I am still afraid of it. Does that huge list of programs Microsoft mentioned really mean that they will not function correctly under SP2? Is this service pack worth downloading despite the risk? Please let me know what you all think, and what your experiences with SP2 are like thus far. Thanks! :o

-Cad

I've installed it on a group of test machines at work, haven't noted any wierdness yet.

Still holding off on my home systems though.

Ok folks. Someone might sneak in a reply before mine, but, honestly, if you can't trust me to give you the scoop on Windows stuff, you can you trust :)

You want to know about Q842242. "Some programs seem to stop working after you install Windows XP Service Pack 2" (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242&product=windowsxpsp2)

Let me make this as simple as posible. They all still work. The title of the KB contains a fairly important word: SEEM. Programs SEEM to stop working because it's a vast list of programs that, when the default windows firewall settings are enabled, they are, be default, blocked from accessing the internet. (I've included a picture of the bahavior you'll see from these programs.) Sometimes it'll seem not to work because you'll, say, start into a program and you'll get the pop-up in the background.

SP2 for XP is nice. It fixes a lot of problems, and despite what a lot of people are trying to nit-pick at, it works just dandy on nearly every machine out there. Yes, there's some notebook classes that need new drivers. Yes, there's a handful of broken things because firewall blocks a few ports (and is quite managable). Yes, some people think that some services should still be set to disabled instead of "manual." Basicly, people are trying REAL hard to give Microsoft a black eye for SP2, and, in short, they're all failing and making themselves look bad.

SP2 isn't perfect. IE6 with the SP2 updates isn't completely bullet-proof, but every in-the-wild exploit for SP2/IE6 now requires user interaction (the drag-and-drop exploit, for example). There's still inherant problems with SP2 and IE and the entire "zones" paradigm, but if you're afraid to run SP2, don't be. I think all of the "switch to Netscape/Firefox/Opera" people have overreacted a bit. After ADODB.Stream was disabled, IE's been fairly secure (see my comments above about the zones paradigm).

Oh, and I've seen a few "This is teh broken in SP2!11" websites, and, honestly, they're missing the mark. They're things like "You can run a program locally that lies to the firewall/AV sensor." No shit. That's how your AV program tells the sensor that it's on, dumbass. You mean, my OS is insecure because I can run programs on it? That's like saying "Unix isn't secure because if root gets an email saying 'type rm * -rf' and they execute it. Or, some jackass makes a one-line obfuscated perl version of it and sticks it in his sig.

Update and enjoy. You'll be happy you did. Don't wait for SP2a.

Let me tack on a bit more, since someone did sneak in a reply:

I've been using SP2 since the first betas were on MSDN. It was solid then, and it's solid now. There's actually some interesting things about XP SP2 that I want to delve into as well -- as the 2055 build (the release is 2096) had a version of the terminal services DLL that allowed, well, Terminal Services instead of just remote desktop connections. The DLL has been "fixed" (heh) since then, but is widely available. A couple of 1-bits set in the registry and that DLL lets you eek out a little more functionality out of your systems.

I'm actually investigating making changes to our work prototype XP image with it -- but I'm mostly spending my time trying to get a working MCE build with a slipstreamed SP2. [Don't ask, but SP2 and MCE aren't exactly cooperating in the slipstream department -- you get a broken ehome build, despite having the tablet files... ...nevermind, it's a long boring story.]

Ahh, so basically it adds a blocking function just like Norton Internet Security? Sounds kind of neat now (especially since my NIS subscription is expired); does it make the firewall more customizable? I've always wanted to unblock certain ports for WinMX for my broadband connection, but I don't know how. Would this let me customize that in spite of my router/modem? Thanks a lot for the help. I'll probably go ahead and download this now.

-Cad

(Whew, 76-266 MB, that's a large SP! :p )

I've been using sp2 for months. Works fine.

Ahh, so basically it adds a blocking function just like Norton Internet Security? Sounds kind of neat now.. does it make the firewall more customizable? I've always wanted to unblock certain ports for WinMX for my broadband connection, but I don't know how. Would this let me customize that in spite of my router/modem?Yes, yes, and yes.

It doesn't have the most user-friendly interaface on the planet, but it's certainly customizable on a reasonably granular level. You can say, for example, that the only port 21 trafic you'll accept will be to X-program and only from your local subnet.

Windows Firewall also blocks 135-139 access for non-domain machines now be default, if anyones cares.

About the only time you're going to see a silent blockage of something would be your new passive program sitting, wondering why its not getting any activity. VNC, for example, comes out of the box, sits on port 5800-5900 and can't understand why it gets no activity :)

Every last WF problem is exactly the same as every other "I just installed a software firewall to my computer" problem. So, if you've ever used any sort of software firewall, well, there's one bundled into XP SP2 now... ...and you're free to turn it off, and you probably can if you're behind a NAT device (like the router connected to your cable/DSL device).

Hm, after I downloaded SP2 and was prompted to reboot, I did so... windows wouldn't come back online, I ended up having to reformat the drive :/ Haven't gone near it since.

windows wouldn't come back onlineHuh?

Sounds like someone doesn't have a valid CD key.

the only problems i've been seeing with SP2 are people with very unstable systems (highly overclocked, or so infected spyware/virus' that the only way to reasonably restore the machine would be a reload)

other then that i think its a great SP

Have a valid CD key. Was talking to someone and they mentioned SP2 had issues with compaq, dell, HP etc. systems and would cause the comp to bluescreen when rebooting after d/ling the SP. Not sure why.

Huh? Not all that tough to understand what I meant :(

Wait a sec.. my key isn't exactly the most valid around, but it was good enough to be able to install SP1. Can I still install SP2 safely? =)

Yes. There's no key check to install SP2. There's the remote possiblity that you'll lose the ability to auto-update, but not likely considering you still can.

If you need a couple hundred SP2 CD-Keys, and a key-changer, let me know.

Have a valid CD key. Was talking to someone and they mentioned SP2 had issues with compaq, dell, HP etc. systems and would cause the comp to bluescreen when rebooting after d/ling the SP. Not sure why.

Not all that tough to understand what I meant :(You useless chowderhead. Blurting out that you have problems after reboot, without a SINGLE useful bit of information does indeed derseve a great big "huh?" from me. Stop errors have messages associated with them.

It's my experience that, in the wild, service packs and IE updates carry with them about a 1-2% failure rate on any set of machines. At least that's the rate that I get on my 20,000 machines at work; and the rate that others with similar pools of machines report.

It done blown up, ma! is about as useless as tits on a bull.

I remember reading an article about SP2 having specific hardware issues with certain mobo configurations. let me see if I can dig it up, I believe it had something to do with AMD 64 bit processors, and/or specific BIOS settings.

Don't get your panties all knotted up Palimax, I was merely pointing out that I had issues with the SP2 download. If you want 'useful information' ask for it, I'm not a tech person so I can't tell you much more than that I had blue screen after blue screen immediately following my download of the SP when my system was booting up.

Hmm, well I have an AMD 64 3400 and a gigabyte mobo, only problems I'm having is with getting the XP firewall to work with NIS properly.

there was an issue with a certain amd 64 bit processors that was causing windows not to load, i don't think it was an entire family of a processor

only problems I'm having is with getting the XP firewall to work with NIS properly. Turn off XP firewall thats what I did works fine.

Palimax I have no idea what you have said in any of your posts on this. I need to know one thing, and one thing only. Will I be able to play MMORPGS with out unblocking ports/games or what ever the hell your talking about?

yes, you can

Osgiliath666 - Yeah, you can keep playing EQ without going to find the secret firewall switch.

Hey Max I have a question for you. How the hell do you get the damn firewall to turn off? I have tried and tried and tried to get the damn thing to turn off and it KEEPS coming back on. I have told it I have my own firewall I will monitor etc.. etc.. and it just wont stop. Every few reboots it pops up this little shield thingy that turns the damn thing back on.

No clue I turned mine off and it never came back on even turned off monitoring.

Woot! Just downloaded SP2.. and I love it. No problems with my programs so far (unblocked my most frequently-used ones), and my wireless internet connection definitely seems faster and more efficient than it used to be. I've also finally been able to make a primary connection through WinMX. Even my generated key works with it. I definitely suggest you download this if you haven't and can.

-Cad

P.S. Does anyone know how to speed up searching in WinMX 3.53?

since this thread was just bumped, theres a critical update for prescott P4's for SP2


http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=9b99c199-5d75-454f-ae07-b620727be8d8&DisplayLang=en

After the fiasco with my computer crapping out, I installed XP SP2 to find out the RAID card was on crack. As soon as I removed it and went back to on board interfaces, every thing worked out great. I'm liking SP2 so far.

P.S. Does anyone know how to speed up searching in WinMX 3.53?
Just make sure you have port 6699 forwarded through any router/firewalls.

Hooray, works perfectly now. Thanks a million Sanchek.

I run on a Dell, and I havent had a single problem with SP2, Now the new shadow feature in EQ, thats a different story entirely :mad:

Listen to Reverend Supine when she preaches the evils of Microsoft and their "Upgrades." (http://www.pcwelt.de/know-how/extras/103039/)

Thanks to end users for the reet hax. :D

There's still inherant problems with SP2 and IE and the entire "zones" paradigm, but if you're afraid to run SP2, don't be. I think all of the "switch to Netscape/Firefox/Opera" people have overreacted a bit. After ADODB.Stream was disabled, IE's been fairly secure (see my comments above about the zones paradigm).


Palimax I can tell you from my my observation if you don't use IE you are less secure then by not using it. Also anyone using Outlook/outlook express are asing for problems. I have ran Windows XP Pro for almost 3 years with just a the routers firewall and have not gotten a single virus. everytime someone complains about a virus on a system I ask them "Do you use IE and outlook". The Answer is always "yes". can you get viruses using other programs? yeah but I have never have. I also don't us an client side Mail program and I don't use D/L anything that I don't know the source. Pure out of paranoia I got a Virus scan and got a clean bill of Health this week.

Faervas runs Firefox, FYI. I, on the other hand, was running IE 5. something, regularly running Spybot Search and Destroy, and had a shitload of them (viruses that is, 18 if I remember right, all we could do was quarantine). And I'm not the porn consumer in the household... ;)

Regards,
Nydia Ywalmoriel
Past Coercer - Autonomous Collective

I've used IE and Outlook Express since day1.
I've yet to get a single virus or trojan to my knowledge. I didn't even start using a firewall till a year ago.

And yes, I consume porn.

I've used IE and Outlook Express since day1.
I've yet to get a single virus or trojan to my knowledge. I didn't even start using a firewall till a year ago.

And yes, I consume porn.
Here, here, as do I and nothing.

faervas:

I don't suggest that "Security with Firefox/Mozilla/Opera is less than or the same as IE." I do, however, suggest that with SP2, and after the closure of the ADODB.Stream (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=870669) hole, it isn't necessarily an must-do-to-be-safe sort of thing to give up on IE completely.

ADODB.Stream got famous as "Download.ject. (http://www.microsoft.com/security/incident/download_ject.mspx)"

There are valid uses for ADODB.Stream, of course. I use it in scripts at work to pull files from webservers without needing to resort to external utilities like WGET (http://www.gnu.org/software/wget/wget.html) or CURL (http://curl.haxx.se/). Also, any robust anti-virus program nowadays stops me from using ADODB.Steam anywhere near a .EXE program. I actually have to fool our virus-scanner by obfuscating the letters dot ee ecks ee in my scripts.

Anyway, I enjoy tabbed browsing and a few other Mozilla/Firefox features, but I've got a lot of IE machines to support.

same here kiv, i've had one very bad spyware infection at one point due to letting my sister use my computer as a search engine for some school paper, came back to seeing her clicking yes to like 5 windows and knew it was over...


over all, zero problems with IE, zero problems with porn consumption(hehe), no firewall, no virus protection program, use torrent religously and use DC++ alot as well (but i only go to a friends hub that is very secure)