PDA

View Full Version : [WoW] Leaked Patch Notes, again


DiscW
06-20-2005, 03:55 PM
It's about that time, More leaked patch notes.


--Blackwing Lair Released!
Nefarian's sanctum, Blackwing Lair, can be found at the very height of Blackrock Spire. It is there in the dark recesses of the mountain's peak that Nefarian has begun to unfold the final stages of his plan to destroy Ragnaros once and for all and lead his army to undisputed supremacy over all the races of Azeroth. Blackwing Lair is a max-level, 40-player raid dungeon, with many new encounters and tempting rewards awaiting the intrepid adventurer that dares enter its halls.

--Darkmoon Faire!

A gathering of the exotic from around the world and beyond, Silas Darkmoon has brought together the Darkmoon Faire as a celebration of the wondrous and mysterious found in Azeroth. While the Faire spends most of their time in parts unknown, they do stop from time to time in Mulgore and Elwynn forest. When the faire is on its way barkers will stop by Ogrimmar and Ironforge to announce its arrival.

--Battlemasters!

There is a new way to enter the battleground queues. Battlemasters! Located in some of the cities, right-clicking on a battlemaster will allow your character to enter a battleground queue just like you normally would if you touched that battleground’s entrance portal. The functionality is exactly the same, so when it’s your character’s time to enter the chosen battleground, you will be teleported directly in. Glordrum Steelbeard stands in the Hall of Arms in Ironforge, serving as the Alliance battlemaster for Alterac Valley. Aethalas of the Silverwing Sentinels stands ready in Darnassus, next to the warrior trainers, to send Alliance characters into Warsong Gulch. And in the Hall of the Brave, located in Orgrimmar’s Valley of Honor, Brakgul Deathbringer serves as the Horde’s battlemaster for Warsong Gulch, while Kartra Bloodsnarl will send you to bring glory to the Horde in Alterac Valley. Guards in their respective cities can give you directions on how to find them.

--General

There is a new option upon the login screen. If you click the "Remember Name" checkbox on the left side of the screen, the game will automatically fill in your account name when it starts up.
Will of the Forsaken (Undead Racial) - duration of the lasting immunity effect decreased to 5 seconds.
Cannibalize (Undead Racial) - Regeneration increased to 35% of a character's total health over 10 seconds.
Stoneform (Dwarf Racial) can now be used to cancel self-inflicted poison effects.
Fist Weapons will now have the normal chance to parry that all weapons use.
It will no longer be possible to swap any equipment while stunned.
Pets will now enter passive/follow mode when their masters mount.
The Dazed effect caused by NPCs will now stack with all other movement slowing effects. Note that the movement slowing effects will not stack, but the debuff icons will remain to ensure the full duration of these effects persist.
Damage caused by environmental effects will now cancel stealth (e.g. swimming in lava).
Several creature spells that silenced players are now properly flagged as silence effects, which will allow talents such as Unbreakable Will to provide a higher chance to resist the effects.
Spells that drain mana will now properly report the amount of mana gained in the combat log.
Clarified the error message when no corpses are available for the Cannibalize ability.
Clarified the error message when trying to attack while mounted.
Resurrection spells should now check range properly when used on targets that have released their spirit.
Spell reflection effects have greatly improved visuals and functionality.
Knockback effects are now synchronized with any associated missile impacts.
Special abilities which are parried will correctly activate abilities which are usable after parrying.
Damage shield spells no longer damage you if you use spells that damage both you and your enemies.
Fixed graphical anomalies when using channeled abilities in a group with a grounding totem.
Fixed the duration of Frostbite on pets which are dismissed and then recalled.
Fixed a bug where broken off-hand fist weapons would prevent main-hand dagger abilities from being usable.
Health leech effects no longer give you health while you are a ghost.
You no longer spout profanity when talking about sitting while drunk.

--Macintosh

Some optimizations for terrain loading and rendering were added for the Macintosh build.
Enabled multisample support in the video options.
Fixed an issue where inspecting crafted items on other users could potentially show attributes that those items did not have.
Updated the Mac sound code to use memory more efficiently.

--PvP

Honor System
There is now a progress bar on the Honor tab of your character window that displays how close you are to your next rank.
The honor screen now displays a bar indicating how far along your current rank you are (Scout, Private, etc). This will let you know whether you are moving towards your next rank or falling back towards your previous rank. from week to week.
There is a new "This Week" section of the Honor tab, which will display PvP accomplishments of the current week.
The "This Session" section of the Honor tab has been changed to "Today", and will now display the entirety of your accomplishments for the day instead of the most recent session.
Players rank 11 or higher can now chat in the WorldDefense channel.
The WorldDefense and LocalDefense channels will now display your rank as well as your name when chatting.
Battleground scoreboards now display the time elapsed in a battleground.
Warsong Gulch
Warsong Gulch has new item rewards at the appropriate faction vendor near the entrances to the zone. These are available starting at Honored faction.
Friendly flag carriers are now displayed on the overhead map in Warsong Gulch.
Both the Warsong Outrider Supply Officer and the Silverwing Sentinel Supply Officer of Warsong Gulch now offer distinct tabards for purchase. Those heroes who are of Exalted status with one of these factions may purchase the tabard for 5 gold (discounts not included).
Players now receive a faction bonus for completing the repeatable Warsong Gulch quests.
Alterac Valley
Each team will now gain additional bonus honor if their towers are not destroyed by the end of the map. The more towers that remained intact, the more honor received.
If you manage to keep your faction's Captain alive for the duration of a battle, you will be granted extra points upon victory.
Several Alterac Valley vendor items are now bind on acquire.
The respawn time for tower guards (assuming the tower has not been destroyed) has been greatly increased.
Korrak the Bloodrager has gained immunities to many different spell and ability effects.
The minimum reputation needed to send a cavalry charge has been reduced to Honored.
Players of Revered or higher reputation may now call offensive air strikes if they have managed to rescue their respective Wing Commanders.
Alterac Valley's guard spawn is now controlled via a more intuitive mechanism. Please check the Officer Supply vendors for your faction to read up on the changes.
Fixed a bug that sometimes prevented the Alliance team from receiving honor for destroying towers.
Fixed a bug that was not awarding Horde credit for owning a mine at the end of a game.
Dispel Magic can no longer be used on players participating in a duel unless the caster is in the duel.
You are considered in combat for the entire duration of a duel.
You can’t assist players which are engaged in free-for-all PvP unless you are also in free-for-all PvP.
If you have PvP combat toggled on, it will no longer be cleared when taking a flight.
Hunter traps work properly in duels if the target is flagged for PvP and the hunter is not.
Removing an insignia in PvP no longer marks both players as being in combat.

--Druids

Shapeshifting will now counteract the slowing effects of frost-based spells (Frostbolt, Frost Shock, Cone of Cold, etc.).
Feral Charge - Targets that are immune to immobilizing effects will no longer be affected by Feral Charge's immobilizing effect. The interrupt will still affect the target.
Shadowmeld (Night Elf Racial) - Now reports the correct error message when attempted in shapeshift form.
Druid shapeshift form buttons are no longer dimmed while under the effects of Polymorph.

--Hunters

Counterattack - Will now cause damage to targets immune to immobilizing effects.
Wing Clip - Will now cause damage to targets immune to immobilizing effects.
Explosive Trap - Fixed a bug where the trap's effects suffered inappropriate damage reduction against high level targets. In addition, damage caused by this trap should no longer kill opponents in duels.
Aspect of the Cheetah/Pack - Non-damaging spells and abilities will no longer cause the dazed effect. In addition, when switching between Pack and Cheetah, you should no longer receive the "A more powerful spell is already active" error message.
Beast Lore - Will no longer flag you for PvP or cause guard retaliation when used on an enemy faction target.

--Mages

Frostbolt - Targets that are immune to movement slowing effects will no longer be affected by Frostbolt's movement slowing effect. Damage will still be caused.
Frost Nova - Will now cause damage to targets immune to immobilizing effects.
Blast Wave - Will now cause damage to targets immune to immobilizing effects.
Cone of Cold - Targets that are immune to movement slowing effects will no longer be affected by Cone of Cold's movement slowing effect. Damage will still be caused.
Detect Magic - will no longer cause guard retaliation in Goblin towns.
Ignite - Can now be dispelled by any effect that dispels magic effects.
Frost Armor/Ice Armor - Targets that are immune to movement slowing effects will no longer be affected by the Chill's movement slowing effect. Targets will still have their melee attack speed reduced.
Arcane Instability - Fixed a bug where rank 3 of this talent was not increasing the periodic damage of various spells by the correct amount (was increasing by 2% and should now properly increase by 3%).

--Paladins

Blessing of Freedom - Will now counter the movement impairing effects of Frostbolt, Cone of Cold, Frost Shock. It will no longer prevent the damage taken by Frost Nova, Hamstring, Wing Clip, Mind Flay, Counterattack, or Blast Wave or the melee and ranged attack speed slowing effects of Cripple.
Consecration - No longer resets weapon timer when cast.
Improved Seal of Justice - Tooltip updated to be more clear.
Seal of Command - Should now correctly report damage in the overhead display and the combat log.
Summon Charger - New icon.
Fixed a bug where the Paladin did not always die when using the Divine Intervention spell.

--Priests

Mind Flay - Will now cause damage to targets immune to movement slowing effects.
Shadowform - Changed so all spells except Holy can be cast rather than only Shadow and Discipline spells. Tooltip updated. This fixes several bugs that prevented various actions (creating tradeskill items, mining, summoning a mount, using a hearthstone and many more).
Spirit of Redemption - Tooltip updated to be more clear.
Touch of Weakness - Stronger versions of this effect on enemy targets will no longer be replaced by weaker versions.

--Rogues

Riposte - Targets immune to disarm effects will now take damage from Riposte.
Disarming an enemy faction hunter's trap will now flag the rogue for PvP.
Ghostly Strike no longer deals damage to you when you use it.
Premeditation - Fixed a bug where the combo points gained using the ability were not properly removed after the duration expired. Also increased range and duration.
The UI now properly shows that Preparation does not clear a Cold Blood setup.

--Shaman

Frost Shock - Targets that are immune to movement slowing effects will no longer be affected by Frost Shock's movement slowing effect. Damage will still be caused.
Reincarnation will no longer be an option on death when a Soulstone effect is active on the Shaman. The Soulstone will be used as the higher priority effect.
Frostbrand Weapon - Targets that are immune to movement slowing effects will no longer be affected by Frostbrand Weapon's movement slowing effect. Damage will still be caused.
Call of Flame - Fixed a bug where the damage bonus did not always increase various totems.
Chain spells cast on PvP targets by an unflagged Shaman will now properly bounce to other PvP targets.
The tooltip for Fire Nova Totem now correctly reflects the damage the totems deal.

--Warlocks

Due to significant talent changes, Warlocks will have all talent points refunded and can be respent.
Cripple (Doomguard) - Targets that are immune to movement slowing effects will no longer be affected by Cripple's movement slowing effect. Melee and ranged attack speed slowing effects will still affect these targets.
Demon Skin/Demon Armor - Now increases health regeneration at all times, as was always intended. Previously, the health regeneration only occurred out of combat. Tooltips updated.
Demonic Sacrifice - The sacrifice effects for the Voidwalker and Felhunter have changed. The Voidwalker will now regenerate 3% of your total health every 4 seconds. The Felhunter will now regenerate 2% of your total mana every 4 seconds.
Demonic Sacrifice now works properly on banished summons.
Summon Dreadsteed - New icon.
Dark Pact - Fixed a bug where the combat log was reporting an incorrect value of mana gained by the caster when there wasn't enough mana to drain from the pet.
Phase Shift (Imp) - While phase shifted, the imp is now targetable but will remain an invalid target for all spells and attacks except self-cast spells.
Improved Healthstone - The increased effect from this talent should now properly apply to other players that use the Warlock's Healthstones.
Ritual of Summoning - Fixed a bug where players could be summoned from outside the same instance as the warlock in some cases.
Unholy Power - No longer requires the Fel Stamina talent. Is now a tier 4 talent and is a prerequisite for the new Master Demonologist talent.
Master Conjuror - Talent replaced with a new talent called Master Demonlogist.
New Talent (Demonology): Master Demonologist - Grants both the Warlock and the summoned demon an effect as long as that demon is active. The effect granted depends on the type of demon summoned.
Unholy Power - No longer requires the Fel Stamina talent. It now requires the Master Demonologist talent.
Ritual of Doom - Should now display the cooldown.

--Warriors

Due to significant talent changes, Warriors will have all talent points refunded and can be respent.
Hamstring - Will now cause damage to targets immune to movement slowing effects. Movement slowing effect improved.
Improved Hamstring - Design changed. No longer improves the movement slowing effect. It is now a 3 point talent that gives a 5/10/15% chance to immobilize the target for 5 seconds.
Booming Voice - In addition to increasing duration, this talent will now increase the area of effect of Battle Shout and Demoralizing Shout by 10/20/30/40/50%.
Battle Shout - Tooltip updated to display area of effect (in yards).
Demoralizing Shout - Tooltip updated to display area of effect (in yards).
Improved Berserker Rage - No longer increases the duration of the effect. The talent will now generate 5/10 rage when Berserker Rage is used.
Improved Demoralizing Shout - Effectiveness increase from talent increased to 8/16/24/32/40%.
Piercing Howl - No longer has a prerequisite (Improved Demoralizing Shout).
Deathwish - Is now usable while under a Fear effect, which will also remove the Fear effect.
Bloodthirst - Design changed. Bloodthirst is now an instant melee attack that causes damage equal to 30% of the warrior's attack power. In addition, the next 5 successful melee attacks will restore health.
Concussion Blow - No longer requires purchase of the Improved Revenge talent.
Shield Discipline - Removed and replaced by the new talent Shield Slam.
New Talent: Shield Slam - Slam the target with your shield, causing damage and has a 50% chance to dispel 1 magic effect on the target. Also causes a moderate amount of threat. Requires the purchase of the Concussion Blow talent.
Heroic Strike/Sunder Armor/Revenge/Mocking Blow - Tooltips updated to indicate the additional threat caused by these abilities. There have been no changes to the amount of threat caused.

--Items

Sets
Felheart, Cenarion, Giantstalker's and Earthfury item sets now have updated art. The Felheart Skullcap is now also called something more appropriate to the new art.
Grand Marshal and High Warlord PvP Honor rewards have been updated with improved statistics and new unique art.
The Alliance Mail and Horde Leather and Mail Epic PvP Honor reward armor sets have received art updates.
The stealth detection bonus on the Druid PvP set gloves has been changed to work in all forms, including caster form.
The set bonus for The Champion's Earthshaker has a revised tooltip to more clearly state that all Shock spells have an increased spell critical chance.
The 8 piece set bonus for Dreadmist will now appropriately affect shadow spells.
The tooltip for the improved feint effectiveness set bonus of the Bloodfang armor set has been corrected to show the actual percentage increase.
When worn by female characters, the Beaststalker's Tunic had a missing texture piece last patch. This has been corrected.
Set items which are broken no longer contribute to set bonus listings in the item tooltips.
The Horde and Alliance PvP Battle Standards may now only be used inside PvP Battlegrounds, but the cooldown has been reduced to 10 minutes.
The Rank 3 Stormpike Insignia now has the correct health regeneration effect.
You can now only have one Flask affecting you at a time.
The Seal of the Dawn trinket now counts as though you were also wearing an Argent Dawn Commission trinket.
The Goblin Sapper Charge can now be used while moving.
Dark Iron Bomb tooltip text and stun effect radius has been corrected to be the appropriate 5 yards.
Librams are now considered to be Books when searching for these items in the Auction House.
The Discombobulator Ray's effect has been changed: it now reduces movement speed to 80% of normal and reduces the target's damage with both spells and melee by 40. The range is now 20 yards.
Snowblind Shoes are now properly marked as an Epic item.
Band of Sulfuras is now unique.
Fireguard Shoulders now have a graphic.
Flask of Forest Mojo can now be sold.
The Bloodseeker crossbow's firing animation has been corrected.
The damage from Smokey's Lighter will now show up appropriately in the combat log.
The water breathing ability of the Hydrocane will now continue to work if the player is shapeshifted.
Both helpful and harmful effects from the Deviate Fish will remain after logging out.
Dark Iron Bracers have been changed to Bind on Equip.
Set bonus for Stormshroud armor improved. It should be more compelling for rogues and druids now.
Winter’s Might recipe now displays the correct +7 to spell damage instead of +5.
Fixed a typo in the item tooltip for the Alliance's Rune of Recall.
Several lootable items in Alterac Valley have had their stack limit changed.

--Professions

Thorium Brotherhood now offers several new recipes. Additionally, several of the old recipes now have different faction requirements.
Additional Smithing/Leatherworking/Tailoring/Enchanting Recipes added to Timbermaw at Honored Reputation
Additional Smithing/Leatherworking/Tailoring/Enchanting Recipes added to Argent Dawn at Honored and Revered Reputation. Also new First Aid recipe added to Argent Dawn at Honored.
Lokhtos Darkbargainer in Blackrock Depths now has many additional recipes that can be learned at Honored, Revered and Exalted reputation. Recipes are available for Enchanting, Tailoring, Leatherworking (all three specialty types), Blacksmithing (Armorsmithing, and Weaponsmithing (all three specialty types).
Quest

There is now an access quest to gain entry to Blackwing Lair. Happy Hunting!
Shadow Priest Vandis at the Bulwark should now properly buff players who complete any step of the "Return to the Bulwark" quest in Western Plaguelands.
Fixed a typo in the Horde version of the quest "Reclaimed Treasures".
Imps during the Warlock Mount Ritual in Dire Maul will no longer get stuck at their spawn-in portals.
Using the Collectronic Module on frozen rookery eggs for the quest "Egg Collection" will correctly consume them.
Obtaining a set of Thieves’ Tools in the quest "Tools of the Trade" no longer flags you for PvP.

--Raids and Dungeons

Several spawns removed from Scholomance. This should make for a more enjoyable 5 player experience.
Several spawns removed from Stratholme. This should make for a more enjoyable 5 player experience. Also, you will now be able to make additional attempts at Ramstein and/or Baron Rivendare should your initial attempt fail.
The trapped chests in Stratholme will now show up for Detect Traps and can be disarmed. In addition, the number of creatures that come out of the trapped chests has been reduced.
Many creatures in Stratholme have gained Detect Invisibility/Stealth.
The loot tables in Molten Core have been revised slightly.
Characters that die and release in the Molten Core will now receive a minimap corpse marker and arrow that will lead them to the window next to Lothos Riftwaker in Blackrock Mountain.
Phase shifted imps are no longer hit by Magmadar’s Lava Bomb.
Damage and resist messages from Magmadar’s Lava Bomb shows up in the combat log.
Fixed a bug that was causing the Cache of the Firelord (Majordomo Loot chest), the Chest of the Seven (Blackrock Depths seven dwarves chest) and the Gordok Tribute Chest (Dire Maul) from despawning too soon.
The chance for an Epic quest item dropping from the Majordomo's chest has been increased to 100%.
The Corrupted Forces of Nature in Maraudon will now pursue correctly.
Dire Maul has had several spawn locations changed and a slight increase in population.
Crystal Fang, the rare spawn in Blackrock Spire, will now potentially appear.

--User Interface

Raid UI has been significantly improved. You can now open the raid UI and drag the name of a class to your gamefield to have a listing of all players of that class be displayed on the game field. Likewise you can drag a group name to your playfield to have the players in that group displayed on your gamefield. In either case the display will show the health, mana and limited buffs or debuffs on each player in the group or class and you can click on a player listed this way to target that player. You can then right-click on the class or group UI element to make some modifications to how the UI displays or to remove the UI element.
If you cycle through targets with the Tab key, manually select a different target using another method, then quickly hit Tab again, your last Tab-selected target will be re-selected and you can continue Tab-selecting where you left off. Clearing your target will restart the Tab selection process.
Items on the action bar now remain there even after they are consumed.
If you shift-click on an item link while you are entering chat text, the item link will now be pasted into your text.
Mail recipient auto-completion will now use names from your guild as well as your friends list.
Hitting Escape will now cancel ranged weapon auto-shots.
The pet UI will now be greyed out while you are mounted to reflect the fact that you can't command your pet.
NPCs which give dishonorable kills have the rank of Civilian and show up with a white title background in the targeting frame.
The effect of damage resistance and vulnerability is now displayed in the combat log.\
Combat abilities which are fully blocked show up correctly in the combat log.
Crushing and glancing blows show more information in the combat log.
Damage from poisons and curses now shows up in the UI after the caster has been killed.
Players now receive an error message if they try to join a meeting stone queue and are in a raid or are not the party leader.
TargetUnitsPet() is obsolete and has been removed from the scripting system.
Added UnitInRaid(), TargetLastTarget() and TargetNearestRaidMember() to the scripting system.
The GetPlayerMapPosition() script function will only work for you, your party and raid.
Fixed an issue where chat window positions may not be restored to the correct positions when re-entering the world.
Fixed occasional crash when speech bubbles are enabled around NPCs that talk a lot.
Fixed occasional crash when listing a chat channel with a large numbers of players.
Fixed temporary lockup experienced by spell casting players when they are kicked.

--World Environment

Flight Paths
Added a Wind Rider Master to Camp Taurajo in The Barrens.
New Horde Flight Paths --
Camp Taurajo in The Barrens <-> Crossroads in The Barrens
Camp Taurajo in The Barrens <-> Thunder Bluff in Mulgore
Camp Taurajo in The Barrens <-> Freewind Post in Thousand Needles
Fixed several problems with the flight path from Undercity to Hammerfall while passing through the Ruins of Andorhal.
Fixed some problems with the Ironforge to Stormwind flight path.
The Darkshire <-> Booty Bay flight paths no longer fly over the Gurubashi Arena in Stranglethorn Vale, and therefore no longer flag fliers as being in Free-for-All PvP. Also, they should no longer fly through the zeppelins coming in and out of the Grom'gol Base Camp.
Graveyards
Feralas, Durotar, Mulgore, Darnassus, Tirisfal Glades (excluding the Bulwark graveyard), Elwynn Forest & the Eastern Plaguelands have now all been converted over to the new graveyard system. The system will place your character's spirit at the closest allowed graveyard in the zone. For example, an Alliance character dying closer to the new Darnassus graveyard, detailed below, will use that graveyard rather than the one located at Dolanaar. Starting area graveyards are still reserved exclusively for characters of similar faction that die within their confines. For example, the spirit of a Horde character dying right outside of Deathknell will not use Deathknell graveyard, but will instead go to the next closest Tirisfal Glades graveyard.
A Horde-only graveyard has been added in the northern section of Durotar, just to the south of Orgrimmar. In addition to serving northern Durotar, Horde characters dying in Orgrimmar, The Hall of Legends and Ragefire Chasm will use this new graveyard. Alliance characters dying in Durotar will continue to only use the Razor Hill graveyard.
A Horde-only graveyard has been placed at the northern base of Thunder Bluff in Mulgore. Horde characters dying in Thunder Bluff will also use this new graveyard. Alliance characters dying in Mulgore will continue to only use the graveyard at Bloodhoof Village.
An Alliance-only graveyard has been added at the eastern end of Darnassus. Alliance characters dying in Darnassus will use this new graveyard. Horde characters dying on Teldrassil will still only be able to use the graveyard at Dolanaar.
An Alliance-only graveyard has been added just outside of Ironforge, around the side of the mountain. It is only for use by Alliance characters that die inside Ironforge and in the Gates of Ironforge sub-area of Dun Morogh. Horde characters dying therein will continue to only use the Kharanos graveyard.
The Ruins of Lordaeron above Undercity now has a Horde-only graveyard. Horde characters dying inside the Undercity will use this new graveyard. Alliance characters will continue to solely use the Faol's Rest graveyard.
A neutral graveyard has been added at the Eastvale Logging Camp in Elwynn Forest. The graveyard at Goldshire is now for use by the Alliance exclusively. Horde characters dying in Elwynn Forest and its sub-areas, as well as in Stormwind, The Stockade and the Deeprun Tram, will have their spirits travel to the new graveyard at the Eastvale Logging Camp.
A neutral graveyard has been added on the island of Caer Darrow in Western Plaguelands. It will serve characters who die on Caer Darrow and in Scholomance.
A neutral graveyard has been added in the Eastern Plaguelands near the northwestern shore of Blackwood Lake. Characters that die in The Fungal Vale will continue to use the Darrowshire graveyard due to the mountains between it and the new graveyard. Additionally, characters dying in Stratholme will now use the new Blackwood Lake graveyard.
A neutral graveyard has been added in Feralas, just to the southwest of Dire Maul. Characters dying in Dire Maul will use this new graveyard.
Darkmoon Cards have been seen dropping from high level Humanoids around the world. Collect a set of them and bring them to the Darkmoon Faire when it is in town!
The "Human, Theramore" faction is now the "Theramore" faction. This faction is allied with the Alliance and is at war with the Horde.
High Elves now have their own distinct faction – "Silvermoon Remnant". This faction is allied with the Alliance and is at war with the Horde. Not all High Elves are a part of this faction.
Several NPCs around the world are now associated with the proper faction.
Dimetradons in Un'Goro Crater should be found more regularly now.
Fire Elementals in Searing Gorge should be easier to find.
The pair of gryphons guarding the entrance to the Hinterlands have finally decided to stop staring at one another and will now wander around the entrance to the pass.
Rashona Straglash was moved to be with other cloth-centric citizens in Orgrimmar.
Several NPCs that were not marked as Civilians are now correctly labeled.
Dark Strand Cultist and Enforcers are now correctly labeled Humanoid.
Morbent Fel’s level was slightly reduced to better fit the level range of Duskwood.
Brinna Valanaar in Azshara now sells higher level arrows.
Hadoken Swiftstrider of Camp Mojache, Feralas and Dinita Stonemantle in Ironforge received promotions; they are now significantly tougher than before.
Certain floating herbs, minerals, and chests should now be more down to earth.
The Barrens should now feel more alive.
Sickly Gazelles now have a sickly look to them.
Jarven Thunderbrew in Kharanos warns players in Common now, and not in Dwarvish.
The Wastewander Scufflaw of Tanaris now spells his own name correctly.
Swift Green Raptor has been renamed to Swift Olive Raptor for clarity.
An icon has been added at the Kalimdor continent map level for Revantusk Village.
Revantusk Village will now have an arrow pointing in its direction on the mini-map when you get close enough to it.
Fixed some typos in Gilnid's text in The Deadmines.
Fixed some typos in Supervisor Raelen's text in Elwynn Forest.

Ascorbic
06-21-2005, 06:35 AM
I guess they want all warlocks to be demonology spec'd -.-

Really hope the felheart shoulders will match the rest of the set and the hat won't look as lame as it does now.

Semedi
06-21-2005, 05:26 PM
I guess they want all warlocks to be demonology spec'd -.-

Why would you say that? I'm certainly not switching my talent tree for what they're offering there.

Beelziod
06-22-2005, 09:27 AM
Ignite - Can now be dispelled by any effect that dispels magic effects.

If they allow Ignite to be dispelled then, they should let priest shield and pally shields to be dispelled as well.

I don't understand how it is any different.

Fazin
06-22-2005, 09:37 AM
Priest shield is dispellable, pally shield while annoying, just prolongs the life of a class by a static amount. I don't know why people bitch about paladins and their shield, it's not like they do any real damage when they run into a bunch of horde, shield and run away.

What I really think shouldn't be dispellable, are the 31-point talents.

Ascorbic
06-23-2005, 05:52 AM
I've no plans to change my build either (hurray I'll have to buy shadowburn and conflagrate again!), it's just dissapointing to see a list of not-so-exciting changes and "upgrades" yet again, the most significant of which are to a talent tree that I have a whopping 5 points invested into. Given, the demonology tree was in serious need of buffing...

Nydia Ywalmoriel
06-23-2005, 10:01 AM
Frost Barrier, a 31 point talent that absorbs 800 damage with a two minute cooldown, is dispellable. Considering that frost mages are getting hit with the nerf stick *again* this patch (Hello Blizzard, we gave up damage for control, remember?), I think it might be time to take a look at the unassailability of that paladin shield, since they are now able to remove our chill effects including those incurred by hitting us...

Regards,
Nydia

Chand01
06-23-2005, 12:12 PM
Screw paladin shield. I am waiting for Blizzard to realize that no stun should last for more than maybe 2 or 3 seconds in pvp. Personally, I think 3 seconds is still entirely too long.

4-6 second stuns are just broken as hell in pvp. Personally, I wouldn't shed a tear if they just decided to get rid of the entire concept of stun from the game, but rogues and paladins would throw a tantrum, I'm sure.


If you don't agree with me about stun, try playing a horde warrior in group pvp and tell me that it is not the bane of your existence. Tell me that more often than not, you don't get stunned and die before the stun wears off, managing to use zero of your abilities and maybe swing a single time, if youre lucky.

KiradureAtani
06-23-2005, 07:15 PM
I tend to agree, to an extent. I think a lot of stun/fear/etc durations are imbalanced, if not outright broken in PvP. I don't play horde, but I do PvP a lot, and I think regardless of which side you play on, Stun is likely to be the bane of your existence. Being stunned for 2-3 seconds is more than enough to get you killed, 4 or more and you're just about doomed. Talk about getting feared for 8-15 seconds, or worse being polymorphed for up to 45 seconds? Talk about an eternity in PvP. Granted, fear *can* fade after taking damage, usually for me its after several thousand damage and I'm fucked anyways. At least with Polymorph if you get touched at all it goes away, but it's almost an eternity to be unable to do *anything* in PvP. Unless of course you're a druid, then all you need to do is shapeshift out of it, just like you can shapeshift out of ANY kind of movement impairing effect. But that's another issue entirely.


I firmly hold the belief that Blizzard has a plethora of wonderful ideas, like Fear, Polymorph, druid abilities, Free Action Potions, and so on down the line that are just wonderful in PvE, but translate very poorly into PvP.
It makes me wonder about some things, sometimes I feel like Blizzard should just go the way of SoE and ban some things outright from being useable in PvP. I.e. fear, charm, etc. But that could just as easily be a horrid idea as a good one, maybe something like halve all durations of certain spells. The only thing else I'll say about it is that the ONLY spell I know of that ever had any special rules was the warlock Curse of Doom spell, that has *never* been useable on PCs (3200 damage after 60 seconds, could spawn a doomguard minion) which leaves me kind of baffled, wondering why this was made unuseable on PCs outright, while several other abilities, that shall not be named, have remained unchanged and unrestricted in pvp.

Kivorn
06-24-2005, 10:22 AM
What you seem to have a problem with is the same thing Blizzard is clamping down on: abilities that remove your control of your character. Not only does sap, polymorph and fear almost always break prematurely in PvP, there's also now trinkets that gives you a get out of jail for free card. And on top of that, all of these abilities have diminishing returns. Even freeze traps are on a diminishing returns timer, and on that very same timer you find scattershot. Trust me, there's nothing more annoying than getting an "immune" message on your scattershot because you've trapped someone one time too many. Even snares and stuns are on diminishing returns. Ask a rogue how screwed he is if he hasnt been able to kill you after his second stun ability wears off. Seeing as how I'll pop my trinket when he kidney shots, the answer is: very.

As for the patch messages, I'm looking forward to trying out a fury build on my warrior. Arms is simply too good at the moment.

Chand01
06-26-2005, 11:57 AM
I really dont mind fear, root, sap/gouge or polymorph so much.

Fear almost always breaks early, same thing for root and sap.
I can use a potion while rooted at least, maybe fire my crossbow or something.
Sap does nothing just about. It breaks on damage and so does gouge.
Polymorph almost always breaks WAY early and it heals me really fast, so whatever.
Root has a chance to break on damage and I'm not sure, but I think fear is the same way too.

Stun ALWAYS lasts full duration and I cant do ANYTHING while its happening. Hell, even if I'm feared, my melee opponents have to chase me down. And fuck... we get fear that may or may not last 8 seconds, when we have fucking stuns guaranteed to last 6 seconds.

Of all of the crowd control abilities, stun is by far the most powerful, and without a doubt, the most in need of SEVERE nerfing. Or if you ask me, it needs complete removal from the game.

Kivorn
06-26-2005, 01:36 PM
First stun: 100% duration
Second stun: 50% Duration
Third stun: 25% duration
Fourth stun: Immune

Sounds fair to me. Though I'm a hunter, and get a get out of jail card on stuns in my trinket.
Play an orc if you really hate stuns (I would've picked orc if my guild hadn't gone alliance).

There really aren't that many stuns in the game either. There's rogues (most notoriously), thing is with them is that if they dont kill you in the stunlock, they cant kill you at all. Then there's the warrior, charge stun + warstomp makes you basically immune to intercept for the rest of the fight. Paladins get a stun that refreshes every 60 seconds, and it's not like they can kill you while you're stunned with their awesome DPS. Shamans get no stuns, Hunters get a 25% chance to stun you with conc shot every 12secs, if they've picked the talent. Sort of the same deal with mages and impact. Druids get bash, which is bear form only and is only usable once every minute. Etc etc.

Except for rogues, the stuns in this game are few and far between, and even when you get hit with them, the diminishing returns guarantee you a fighting chance.

I really don't see your beef with them. If anything, I'd say I hate entangling roots more than any other crowd control spell.

Chand01
06-28-2005, 01:50 AM
First stun: 100% duration
Second stun: 50% Duration
Third stun: 25% duration
Fourth stun: Immune

Except for rogues, the stuns in this game are few and far between, and even when you get hit with them, the diminishing returns guarantee you a fighting chance.

Um.... no, especially to the part I put in bold.

When I rarely live through a single paladin stun in AV, even with healing, diminishing returns never do anything. 6 seconds of stun combined with 1500+dps incoming just eliminates the entire point of diminishing returns. Or if it happens in WG, where the objective is to AVOID fighting, it doesnt matter if I live through the stun or not.

And by few and far between, what do you mean? Do you mean like how I am guaranteed to die during or shortly after (usually during) a paladin/rogue stun basically every death in AV?

What do you have to say about the fact that a couple of rogues can make or break a WG game? A rogue sprinting can be well beyond casting range before KS wears off.

Sounds like you have no clue what the hell youre talking about. Go get some actual experience on the matter and try again.

It doesn't matter what classes get what, when I am guaranteed to be up against both a rogue and a paladin or multiples of either no matter where I chose to PvP. Stuns are not rare. They are WAY too common and WAY too powerful. How about you actually pick up a copy of the game and play it before sharing your vast knowledge.

Kivorn
06-29-2005, 08:54 AM
Yeah. It's my fault you suck. It really is. I usually join an AV game and rocket to at least 2nd-3rd place on the scorecard within 45 minutes. I usually average a ratio of at *least* 3 to 1 on deaths.

Also, what you might (apparently) have missed was that I wasn't talking about Battlegrounds at all. Diminishing returns is a factor to balance PvP in the wild, where the stuns are few and far between. Alterac Valley is, much like Hillsbrad was between the honor patch and the release of BG, a zerg fest. You stick out your head and you die. The trick is to kill shit without sticking your face out to get smashed, or to get your kills in during your own team's charges.

The scenario you described was you being dumb enough to get within spell range in the front rank, and then either getting zerged or nuked to death. It happens to me too, naturally. Mostly from a mage+priest combo getting in range. No mage can one-shot me but if they crit off a Pyro, a Pain+Plague combo can quickly finish me off unless I have a healer (which I never do, since it's more efficient to farm honor solo).
I don't have to deal with paladin stuns, fortunately, since I'm alliance. (put that in bold for you, since you like bold).
And still, I have an anti-stun trinket. Which is why rogues are SoL even if they catch me in a faraway corner of the BG. Most of the time anyway, there are rogues with some sick DPS out there. Hell I don't even know if the trinket works on paladin stuns, but I know that my trinket is ALWAYS ready to be fired when a rogue surfaces. That should tell you how "far between" they are, to me.

Stuns are few and far between unless you're doing it wrong. Thank you, the Kivorn has spoken.

As for rogues sprinting with the flag, I got something called track. Try having a hunter that doesn't blow in the yard and you'll find that most flag carriers won't get far. The real threat is an end-game equipped warrior trailed by a priest or two. Even if they've got boots, all you need to do is get in range for a conc shot, and you'll gain on them far enough to get off a scattershot and move in for the wing clip. Once wing clipped your team can easilly catch him even if you die in the process.

Edit, after logging in on a patch day: Played AV for 212240CPs over the last week, and no rank increase. Dammit! I need my PvP gear! Warsong Gulch has been dead for the last week on my server so the real honor farm is gone.

Chand01
07-01-2005, 03:36 PM
Yeah. It's my fault you suck.

Oh.... BURNED!!!!!!!!!!!


Diminishing returns don't mean anything in 1-2 on 1, which is where you will ever find DR actually accomplishing anything, and 1-2 on 1 doesn't mean anything at all.

The only time DR is going to impact me is with a rogue using both of his stuns within 15 seconds of eachother, and in any case I can kill a single rogue.

So yeah, I'm convinced you have no idea what the fuck youre talking about. Sorry if realistic scenarios are beyond your comprehension. You can now return to your fantasy land where you only encounter 1-2 people at once. Sorry but Diminishing returns did zero to impact the power of anybody but frost mages and their chill effects. I dont know what the fuck game youre playing.

In small scale pvp, I don't get hit with enough stuns for DR to ever come into play usually, and in large pvp it only takes a single stun to terminate me. And not to mention, should I live through 1 stun, a second stun is still going to last for 2.5-3 seconds, which is still insanely long.


You make no arguments at all other than "stuns are rare, because I'm an alliance hunter." Ok...

DiscW
07-01-2005, 03:49 PM
Sorry but Diminishing returns did zero to impact the power of anybody but frost mages and their chill effects.

Hi, warlocks?

Chand01
07-01-2005, 06:54 PM
Hi, warlocks?

Sorry, forgot about them, as they never posed a problem for me in the first place.

DiscW
07-02-2005, 04:12 PM
Unless you're a shaman or shadow priest, you must be going against really crappy warlocks then. Of course, thats about 90-95% of em on my server, so hey.

And I'd say stun's are crappy, but if it weren't for them, I can't think of a melee that could ever ever kill me 1on1 if they weren't decked out in mc gear. Outside of the lucky roguegank. So.... dunno.

Kivorn
07-02-2005, 09:25 PM
You can argue scenarios all you want Chand01. I just exited a lost AV with 150% more kills than the closest horde player. Died once to a rogue stunlock, rest were mage/priests, and once a warlock.

You seem to confuse my post as an attempt to argue that stuns are rare and far between, whereas I'm not. You also seem to think your opinion of my play style has some sort of impact. Which is quite funny since you're the one bitching about how you can't handle an aspect of the game.
I'm telling you that stuns are far and inbetween, if you don't agree that's your beef. Any talented WoW player (those that don't scream I HATE ROGUES or IMBA SHAMANSm for instance) can tell you that stuns aren't a problem. Polymorph can be a problem. Seduction is a problem. A stun isn't a problem. They never will be.

I take no responsibility for your problems with stuns. I don't even really care. Neither do I take to heart your claims I suck, since I know I don't. I know I can comfortably say I'm probably in the top10 on Bloodscalp as far as PvP goes. I know that simply by the sheer percentage of PvP encounters wherein I survive and/or triumph. Including those including disabling abilities.

Also, I'm a hunter. And diminishing returns can have a tremendous impact on me, especially in 1on1 scenarios.

Edit: Huge.

Nydia Ywalmoriel
07-03-2005, 01:01 AM
A stun isn't a problem. They never will be.

Maybe stuns aren't a problem *for you*, but, as someone who has been stunned and died with *zero* opportunity for recourse on countless occasions (dress-wearing class means that if I'm stunned, I'm reduced to 0 hp well before I can break out of it unless it's Blink-breakable), I can say with a fair amount of authority that they're a problem for *me* and lots of other folks. Since Faervas *can't* Blink, a good rogue can and has killed *both* of us before the initial sap broke on me. Consider that his fear *has* DR, my sheep heals to full immediately and has DR, that Frost Nova/CoC has DR, that rogues have *four* ways to produce a stun, and that, since we're on the underpopulated side, we typically encounter multiples of them, yes, there's a problem.

I get the whole rock-paper-scissors thing, and that we're meant to have a tough time against Rogues. But the simple fact is that because they have so *many* ways to produce the same effect, DR has little to no effect on them, whereas it has major effects on Warlocks, Priests, and to a lesser extent Frost mages.

Regards,
Nydia

DiscW
07-03-2005, 01:48 AM
Every other ability in the game has various counters or ways of breaking out of it, except for stuns. You can't honestly expect people to believe that it isn't overpowered in it's current state.

And you play a hunter, you're one of the best classes against rogues plus you have an anti-stun trinket(which I would kill to have, but they didn't give to mage/warlocks for some bizarre reason), so you don't have to deal with it as much as other people.

You can really say whatever you want. Whenever I'm using the TV, I can usually look over and see my bro playing. He's a upper ranked player on Shattered Hand. He plays a..... mace rogue. I've seen hours and hours of stun ownage. I feel sorry for them sometimes.

Kivorn
07-04-2005, 08:25 PM
The rock-paper-scissors deal is broken beyond all repair. They'd have to redesign the entire game to even remotely approach it. I have also been killed with zero possibility of returning fire. From mages, warriors, and yes, rogues respectively. The mages out dps you, the warrior charges with an MS/hamstring/MS/Execute combo, and the rogue stunlocks you. Tomato tomahto as far as I'm concerned, I'm dead either way. As a hunter on the other hand it's extremely difficult to kill anything without their ability to retaliate. I play one of the classes who are essentially unable to at will burst dps. Even a priest can nuke when he wants to. My dps is balanced with my clicking all my abilities at once in mind. If I crit an aimed shot, and then a multishot, I can often kill a caster (without manashield, power word: shield or a voidwalker active that is). But all other fights end up in either a shootout or myself kiting.

I don't like it, but I can handle it. I press my 3 buttons (aimed shot, multishot, arcane shot, occasionally concussive when it refreshes) and do my little bounce-dance and feign death exploit to win. I'm fortunate in that way, I can use game mechanics to my advantage to win.

Anyway, back to stuns. Rogues don't kill me, with or without trinket. But yeah, I admit that the trinket is handy. On kidney shots. You rarely have a chance to click it on the cheap shot before it's over, and besides entangling roots there's nothing else worth using it on. I'd pay what's left of my gold to swap my trinket in for an anti-polymorph/fear trinket. Fear is the single greatest PvP threat as far as I'm concerned. Again, stuns don't really bother me. They don't bother me on my hunter, my warrior, my druid or my mage. Blind and distract are both immensely more of a hassle. If anything, I think the stuns and blind should go on the same diminishing returns timer. But that's a little far fetched. And again: I can cope.

Also, Nydia, I do not comprehend how you (especially if you're 2) manage to lose if you've been able to sheep your opponent. Yes, he regens to full, but so do you (bandages/hit escape and wait 4 seconds and eat/drink). You then get to open with a whalloping attack at max range, even if sheep breaks prematurely you can use nifty stopwatch, blink, nova/CoC, discombobulator ray, etc. to build distance Also, as for diminishing returns on sheep, I do not comprehend why you need to re-sheep a player more than maybe once unless there's somewhat of a battle going on, in which case you can always choose to sheep someone else. My fights don't last long enough for that, and I have zero burst dps compared to most classes. Hell even a warrior out-bursts me. You 2 losing to one rogue, one of equalish level, that I do not understand. Sap is a bitch, but since you'll be alerted to his presence instantly, and he forfeits stealth (since like no rogues go improved sap) you can use any area effect ability to buy time for the sap to wear off. Not sure what class faervas is (though I know I've read it somewhere), but an instant scream/sacrifice/seduce (he's gotta be a priest or warlock I guess since he didn't habe blink ^^) will buy you a minimum of 50% of the sap's duration. That's what my friends do when I get sapped. It works. None of my friends die while I'm sapped unless an entire fricking stealth party pops into view.
It's theorycraft, naturally, but maybe they simply have skill/gear/ability to cope with stress that you lack? Maybe it's with you the problem lies?

99% of all PvP is being able to think on your feet and throwing your opponent off guard. If you're not good at stuff like warcraft3, good at quick tactical decisions, I doubt you'd be good at WoW PvP (even though I've seen the other way around since bubus completely blows at wc3 =P). PvP is much more the individual players' skill than what class is up vs what class. One class will often be the underdog, yeah, but there's so many equalizers... ranging from discombobulator rays and mind control caps to different talent builds (impr. blessing of freedom, stun talents, rogue/hunter counterattack, improved intercept (quite the boon) and etc).

From this thread I have gleaned that there's much I don't get about the game, and it's all about the players. I have no problems with the game mechanics, I've never really lost a 1on1 in PvP since beta1 (at least not a "fair" 1on1 fight), and to this day I rarely die from any class in any situation. I don't get the "a rogue killed me omg rogues are too good!", I don't get the "shamans are impossible to kill!", I *really* don't get the "shadow priests are kings" crap. Shadow priests are damn dangerous, but hey, they also have a shitty mana pool half the time and can't dispel my viper sting. Don't pull that "well you're a hunter" crap on me either. I've been 60 since 2 weeks into release, do you think I've spent all my time idling up there? I do have more characters, and I have friends of each and every class at 60 in a top-teir guild (ours) with gear ranging from sub-par to unmatched.
Do people have no skill or what? Are you trying to buy your way out of your incapability to play the game with the statement that stuns are overpowered? Stuns are, quite simply put (I'll say it again), the least of my concerns. On all my characters.

And yes, I would trade away my trinket on my hunter for an anti-fear trinket the second it became available. Do you realize how superior http://www.thottbot.com/index.cgi?i=39989 is vs http://www.thottbot.com/index.cgi?i=39985 ?
When I first got my trinket I laughed and said to my friends "as usual Blizzard has no clue when it comes to hunters". I stand by that statement. They've now said we're on the slate for the next class overhaul, which is extremely overdue since half of the class is broken beyond repair. 2.5 useless talent tree and the rest of the talents are mandatory to have unless you want to get raped in PvP, pets that can't tank or deal damage and are impossible to level, scandalous itemization, skills that we don't even bother clicking (yes, other classes have such skills as well), general populace's unwillingness to group us (ranger syndrome), the 52agi to 1% crit vs a rogue's 29agi... Those are my concerns. Not kidney shot. Not cheap shot. Even with a cheap shot->kidney->vanish->swiftthistle->cheap shot->kidney a rogue is unable to kill me before I bust loose somehow. Guess how? Yeah that's right. His stuns don't have any fucking duration beyond the first 2, also he needs to streamline them perfectly to avoid my scattershot/deterrence/whatever. The same is true for almost all classes (warlocks are horrendously underpoweredi n PvP currently). Scream, intimidating shout, divine shield, nature's swiftness+heal, nature's grasp, nova (if blink isnt up), etc are all up for grabs to combat your pesky rogue's stuns. Now the crippling poison is a killer. That's far more deadly than the stuns, but since you had no beef with poisons I'll not even go into that discussion.

As for the dual-mace approach, been there tried that. Yeah, you stun a lot. For the first 5-10 seconds. If your target isnt dead (for instance, since I'd have deterrence rolling on your ass), your stuns are forfeit. Ask your bro how well a kidney shot works if he hasn't killed his opponent in the first assault. The weapon procs even have diminishing returns unto themselves. Shit, I went mace on my warrior, one charge and 2 procs later my intercept was useless and everyone outran me if I hadnt killed them and hamstring missed. My bud was top-teir mace rogue. He switched builds and drastically improved his PvP performance. Pretty funny how he was using a mass of mcgowan too.

The real reason why rogues want maces: Instant attacks benefit the most from slow and heavy weapons. Like maces. Like, for instance, the mass of mcgowan. It turns their SS spam into DPS city. It has nothing to do with the stuns. Many rogues even skip mace spec when they're using maces. Most skilled ones do. The real key to the mace-rogue is the ambush/sinister strike crit spam. Now that will drop a caster in 2 shots. But it has nothing to do with stuns.

Bitch about stuns all you want. I don't get the point. Odds are they're here to stay anyway.

EDIT: Clarity, additions, grammar, spelling. Total: 3.

Nydia Ywalmoriel
07-04-2005, 10:37 PM
Also, Nydia, I do not comprehend how you (especially if you're 2) manage to lose if you've been able to sheep your opponent. Yes, he regens to full, but so do you (bandages/hit escape and wait 4 seconds and eat/drink).

Two things:

1) The situation I referenced wasn't a duel situation, where I knew the rogue was coming; it was open PvP (early TM/Southshore action, some months ago). I was Sapped *first*, and thus didn't get the opportunity to sheep. Usually, that's how it is, btw; they're rogues, you know, and don't generally advertise that they're about to nail you from stealth or from being unflagged. If you're already stunned, it doesn't matter if you can sheep or whether it heals or not, because what you are doing is... drooling, while they then take your paltry few hits in a matter of a couple of seconds. Yes, there are counters (such as 'pinging' with arcane explosion/flamestrike), but if they're flagging in the process of hitting you (frequent among opportunists on PvE servers), these are useless.

2) Secondly, you can no longer eat/drink while you have someone sheeped, no matter how long it lasts (which is seldom more than a few seconds, nerfed some time ago); that was 'fixed' months ago, and having a sheep/seduce locks you in combat.

As to my competence/incompetence in PvP, I am not about to get into a pissing contest with you or anyone else on the matter of anyone's leet pvp skillz, but I'll freely admit that it's not something I do very often. This in no way invalidates or trivializes my argument that, relative to other classes, the sheer number of possible rogue stuns frequently leaves casting classes in particular with no opportunity for recourse whatsoever. I did not have a problem with this when the converse was true (that sheep duration was not nerfed to hell in PvP, that we could eat/drink during it), but seeing that every other class has had it's ability to remove the control of other players in combat severely curtailed, it seems that, if this is going to be the way of things, that rogue stunlocking needs to be looked at also.

Sincerely,
Nydia

Beelziod
07-05-2005, 09:27 AM
Nydia,

Before you call for a nerf of stun-lock borrow a friends account and play one. I am a Mage I do PVP quite often. I also have a stun-lock rouge and do PVP, its fun.

Getting a caster into the correct position for a stun lock is not as easy as stealth and walk up to them.

As more and more people learn how to play PVP the stun lock rogues loose effectiveness. There are a few simple techniques to avoid the rogue and it completely eliminates them from the easy kill.

1) Travel in packs, never stand/sit/eat/drink alone. Even if its with another caster.
2) If you see a rogue goes stealth spam Arcane Explosion, Blizzard. Hell just casting it will scare him away. (You mentioned this)
3) In combat don't stop moving.

Rogues hit very hard in the beginning of the fight then strafe in order to beat you (as a caster). If you don't show your back and you don't stop moving you can beat the best rogue. Move at angles, never backwards you move too slowly.

I won't get into more of the tactics for beating rogues but it simply comes down to taking away his surprise you get that you beat the rogue.

samanusuke
07-05-2005, 11:43 AM
If traveling in packs is the defense for rogues, doesn't that kinda tell you that they are more powerful than the other classes in pvp situations?

"Yea, I can kill rogues, but I don't stand a chance alone."

That's kinda the case for every class out in the open field. I'm not preaching that they need to be nerfed or anything, mostly because I'm pretty sure in Blizzard's eyes class balance is as good as its gonna get. One on one in an open battlefield, a rogue always has the advantage, though. And for the record, almost every rogue I've pvp'd against has had improved sap. It's the most annoying fucking ability in the game.

Kivorn
07-05-2005, 05:40 PM
Nydia. What I meant was that when your partner sees that you are sapped, he should reply with area effects to buy time. Again you did not mention what class Faervas is, but if he is a priest or a warlock he should have no trouble keeping the rogue busy until sap wears off on you. The same should be true if it was faervas who was sapped.

You can eat and drink when someone is polymorphed if you cover enough ground before it wears off. Seduce locks you in combat, but that isn't a problem since when he's seduced, the warlock will be loading a fear, and then kite his arse until sap wears off. Sheep usually lasts at least a good 15 seconds unless someone attacks it. Maybe your experience is different.

And Sam, I shit you not when I say I have never been waylaid by a rogue with improved sap. I'm not saying that for the sake of argument, it has never happened to me.