Experiments like this (http://www.news.com.au/story/print/0,10119,15739502,00.html) have been going on with lower order animals for some time. In the future, you'll be able to take Fluffy to the clinical pet sematary down the street. I think this has interesting implications for our standard conception of death, perhaps especially from a religious standpoint.

SCIENTISTS have created eerie zombie dogs, reanimating the canines after several hours of clinical death in attempts to develop suspended animation for humans.

US scientists have succeeded in reviving the dogs after three hours of clinical death, paving the way for trials on humans within years. Pittsburgh's Safar Centre for Resuscitation Research has developed a technique in which subject's veins are drained of blood and filled with an ice-cold salt solution.

The animals are considered scientifically dead, as they stop breathing and have no heartbeat or brain activity.

But three hours later, their blood is replaced and the zombie dogs are brought back to life with an electric shock.

Plans to test the technique on humans should be realised within a year, according to the Safar Centre.

However rather than sending people to sleep for years, then bringing them back to life to benefit from medical advances, the boffins would be happy to keep people in this state for just a few hours,

But even this should be enough to save lives such as battlefield casualties and victims of stabbings or gunshot wounds, who have suffered huge blood loss.

During the procedure blood is replaced with saline solution at a few degrees above zero. The dogs' body temperature drops to only 7C, compared with the usual 37C, inducing a state of hypothermia before death.

Although the animals are clinically dead, their tissues and organs are perfectly preserved.

Damaged blood vessels and tissues can then be repaired via surgery. The dogs are brought back to life by returning the blood to their bodies,giving them 100 per cent oxygen and applying electric shocks to restart their hearts.

Tests show they are perfectly normal, with no brain damage.

"The results are stunning. I think in 10 years we will be able to prevent death in a certain segment of those using this technology," said one US battlefield doctor.

The only problem I have with this is that when someone is Asystole (flatline) in a "code" situation we don't "shock" that... we usually only use chemicals (drugs) to get it going again..... but this is interesting....

I bet when this gets to trials on humans, there will be profound psychological impact on the patients, that they can't really gauge in the animals tests. The technology is pretty nifty though.

Will be interesting to see where this technology goes. Think about it... they can already clone body parts, right? Fastforward 20 years... the very wealthy who can afford to have a backup clone made of their bodies do so, and have them frozen in this manner. Then, in the event of death, doctors freeze the brain of the person in question via the technique mentioned in the article. They then transplant the frozen brain into the newer, younger cloned body, pump the whole thing full of blood (or a blood substitute, which I can imagine will have advanced quite a bit by then.. thus preventing having to keep a store of an entire body's worth of the person's blood, and avoiding the body rejecting donor blood) and turn them on.

This also opens up fields of body alteration that might normally be impossible, or at least extremely high risk, on a live patient... such as brain implants (cybernetics).

This has Resident Evil written all over it...

Oo... there ya go... cybernetic undead. A combination of the whole "Machines Aware of Themselves" theme and Zombies. Machines... aware that they need braaaaains.

Oo... there ya go... cybernetic undead. A combination of the whole "Machines Aware of Themselves" theme and Zombies. Machines... aware that they need braaaaains.
Spoiler for next Romero's movie? After thinking and running zombies, cyber zombies with a hint of salt? :eek:

On the subject, and about Sanchek's comment, it reminds me a novel from S. King (iirc), where a scientist invented the teleportation machine.
The only drawback of it was that people needed to take it sleeping. If their bodies were taking 0.000062 second to get thru teleportation, the trip for their minds was lasting an eternity.

Image now, even if your body is dead, some kind of conscious unconsciousness was still working, so you would know you were dead, and when you would wake up to life again...

Hmm where do you sign for human tests?? :p

You guys think waaaay too much into this. All I see is the good old journalism at work.
Let's cry zombie dogs so more people read us!

The last time I checked the references (i.e. sci-fi / horror movies) creating a zombie was all about reanimating an already dead and decaying body by special means (voodoo, pact with Innoruuk, nano-bots...whatever) and not about preserving the body from decay and later reviving the preserved body by conventional means. That's hibernation / cryogenics FFS.

Can't people get their story straight anymore? Duh...

The source's presentation of the story doesn't detract from the scientific qualities and merits within the story. There's fun to be had with "cybernetic nano-cadaver I have no pulse and I must scream, 'Braaaaiinnnss'" fantasies, just as there are interesting underlying implications to the research. You're reading waaayyyy too much into our reading. =)

:p:rolleyes::p


Otherwise, it is nothing really new, there been talk about using cryogenics as emergency treatment for years, either as localized (cooling down a specific organ or tissue) or the whole body till the patient can get onto the operating table.

For example, in case of a stroke, slowing down or stopping metabolism [in the brain] temporarily can mean the difference between complete recovery and a brain dead vegetable.

I guess the method is what is interesting in this article, not what is it about.

I heard about cryo and slowing/stopping a metabolism before, I never did about "emptying from its blood and replacing it with cold salt water to revive it with putting blood again".

And so far, it's the only cryogenesis method I heard that was "working", usually you are always told that freezing someone is easy, the hard part was heating him back.

The real rock solid barrier in the way of long term hibernation is the ice crystals forming inside the cells and causing serious damage. Replacing the blood with a salty solution won't solve that problem either.

In this case they only cooled the dogs down to 7 C (44.6 F?) as well thus they stayed well above freezing.

What I find interesting in this is the lack of brain activity for hours, thats not something people usually recover from, regardless for slowed metabolism or not.

44.6F.. hmmm..

*Wonders how well 'Human' keeps in a refrigerator.*

What I find interesting in this is the lack of brain activity for hours, thats not something people usually recover from, regardless for slowed metabolism or not.

This is the area I have questions about as well. And, showing my ignorance, I am unsure if lack of oxygen/blood to the brain for a matter of hours would not essentially "erase the harddrive".

Creepy wierd, just creepy wierd.

How do they keep the bodies from decaying? This only seems useful until the organs begin to decay. You could clone new organs, but then you would need to clone a brain also... But then that person is basically a fresh copy. The cloned brain grown from start would not have had the experiences the person who died did. You couldn't really use this technique for immortality as the brain begins losing cells at 25ish (Not sure on the exact age), so even with unlimited bodies your brain would slowly die. Unless they create machines that create an exact duplicate of the brain with memories and all, I don't see it being viable for living forever. Then there’s Sancheks point about the psychological impact. You die, or in the case of being wounded you are killed by someone, and then brought back to life later.

I don't see it being practical for immortality or bringing back the dead. Short term use, I could see it being practical, perhaps for complicated surgery, or extended time for reviving people. Either way, I wouldn't sign up for it anytime soon.

At the moment, the primary application would be a short term measure to prevent accident or combat victims from dying (or should that be "dying-dying"?) while surgeons repair the damage. For longer term usage scientists have a lot to overcome, but it's amazing progress.

Whole thing bothers me more on a moral sense. Something dies, its moved on whatever. Bringing it back just....bothers me. For the ammount of time the brain is shutdown in the original article, you would think there would be TONS of psycological damage.

If psychological damage is a result of the "treatment," then it won't be used. I doubt it will be any different than a near death experience, as far as the patient is concerned. While NDE's may result from trauma, there is no pattern of psychological damage resulting from them. Indeed, many find their experience to be quite positive (even aside from not being, ya know, dead). If it saves lives while avoiding unlivable side effects, bring it.

If psychological damage is a result of the "treatment," then it won't be used. I doubt it will be any different than a near death experience, as far as the patient is concerned. While NDE's may result from trauma, there is no pattern of psychological damage resulting from them. Indeed, many find their experience to be quite positive (even aside from not being, ya know, dead). If it saves lives while avoiding unlivable side effects, bring it.


"Psychological damage", "near death experience". and "unliveable side effects".
Is this post about the medical/scientific experiments or about my failed marriage?

/hijack off. sorry.

On topic, I think there will be a huge rallying against this by the same group currently fighting to overturn Roe vs Wade. It will be an interesting debate, saving a life on the one hand vs playing (or interfering with) God on the other. What happens to the soul during the time of clinical death?

What happens to the soul during the time of clinical death?
21 Grams float away?

What I find interesting in this is the lack of brain activity for hours, thats not something people usually recover from, regardless for slowed metabolism or not. Little kids fall through ice and technically drown to death from a clinical standpoint, and yet many are revived and live after being dead under the ice for 30 minutes or more and with really low core body temps. Perhaps for adults its different but it suggests possibilities. Adults also tend to not fall through ice covered ponds by themselves as much as kids.

The usual lobbyists, religious and political assholes will probably have fun with this branch of medical sciences as well, though. Don't expect to see this as a viable treatment for study on humans anytime soon in the US.

On topic, I think there will be a huge rallying against this by the same group currently fighting to overturn Roe vs Wade. It will be an interesting debate, saving a life on the one hand vs playing (or interfering with) God on the other.

I could see protests against this by the same "pro-life" folks who seek laws banning abortions even if the life of the mother is at risk. Hopefully an uncommon level of sense will prevail; I don't think the theological implications are that bad, given NDE's. Some will couch it as a miracle of Jesus working through science to bring more Lazaruseses back from the dead. If the Dobsons and Terrys buy it, it'll pass.

What happens to the soul during the time of clinical death?What happens to the WHAT at clinical death?